2011-12-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:00:46 <warlord> hey mikee : can you op gncbot?
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11:01:04 <mikee> @gncbot
11:01:04 <gncbot> mikee: Error: "gncbot" is not a valid command.
11:02:00 <mikee> op gncbot
11:02:44 <mikee> @op gncbot
11:02:44 <gncbot> mikee: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
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11:10:34 <mikee> @op warlord
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11:30:13 <sfreiesleben> Hi, is it possible customize an invoice in stylesheets defined outside the gnucash ui?
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11:46:22 <Quanta> i try to print INI-key using gnucash with out success. i use gnucash v2.4.8. i can see the key using aqbanking but not when from gnucash
11:46:34 <Quanta> is it a gnucash problem or aqbanking?
11:50:28 <sfreiesleben> gnucash
11:51:23 <sfreiesleben> sorry I missed your question :-)
11:52:12 <Quanta> is it a knowen problem?
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12:15:32 <warlord> thanks mikee
12:16:31 <warlord> Quanta: I still dont understand the problem. What is an INI-key, and how are you expecting GnuCash to "print" it?
12:25:27 <Quanta> when you add a user in gnucash (using aqbanking) you have different methods. for the hbci one, you need to generet a key that would be sent and your bank
12:25:35 <Quanta> this key you need to print
12:25:59 <Quanta> this key in german called ini-brief
12:26:47 <Quanta> since i dont know if the crafical implementation of aqbanking is part of gnucash or not, i am asking my question here
12:27:10 <Quanta> is now my problem clear?
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12:28:28 <warlord> no, that setup is all AqBanking.
12:29:28 <Quanta> also the grafical interface?
12:37:16 <warlord> It depends which part of the graphical interface.
12:37:24 <warlord> All the setup is AqB
12:37:32 <warlord> Some of the runtime is gnucash.
12:42:21 <Quanta> ok, thanks
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15:25:10 <lupe> Hi there.
15:28:22 <lupe> Anyone there? I'm just looking for a hash or a gpg key for the newest OS X binary.
15:30:06 <warlord> I dont think those are generated.
15:30:15 <lupe> Hmm.
15:30:35 <lupe> OK, thank you anyway.
15:32:01 <warlord> Are you concerned that someone hacked sourceforge?
15:33:07 <lupe> Nope. Just general caution.
15:33:41 <lupe> Well, especially with this kind of software.
15:33:59 <lupe> Since you access your bank account with it
15:35:34 <lupe> Well, I will have a look at it anyway. Bye.
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17:18:34 <zombiethoughts> client: Glad you found it!
17:19:30 <client> Hello
17:19:35 <client> thank you zombiethoughts
17:19:44 <client> is anybody communicating here? zombiethoughts
17:22:08 <client> Hello, I am trying to do my first transaction which is creating an opening balance for my company, I seem to be getting an error for it. can anybody assist me?
17:24:02 <zombiethoughts> client: Most of the time if someone can't answer a question they just don't reply. Keep trying once in a while. Most people don't use scrollback in irc.
17:24:46 <client> I believe most of the people here are developers for the software @ zombiethoughts
17:27:15 <fell> client: That is hard to answer. Can you explain the error?
17:28:48 <client> fell, when you start a business, the first transaction you perform is to put capital into the business, that is what I am trying to do.
17:29:26 <fell> Yes, Increase assets and equity
17:29:56 <client> I am unsure whether I should balance the opening balance (under the equity account) against putting the money into assets:checking account expenses: bank service charges. is that what I should do?
17:35:37 <fell> At first, did you read http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/ ? There is also other documentation listed at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash#Documentation
17:36:52 <client> I did
17:37:02 <client> but this transaction is different to others
17:38:18 <fell> Lets say your bank statement opens with 1000 ZAR, then you increase assets:Checking and equity in your opening transaction.
17:40:20 <fell> Later they charge you for the service 10 ZAR. that reduces your asset to 990 ZAR and increases your expense: bank service by 10 ZAR.
17:40:22 <client> My actual transaction was aimed at taking cash and putting it into the checking account, would it make more sense to declare my opening balance equity as cash and then split that asset as asset:checking + expenses for bank charges?
17:41:10 <fell> That is up to you and your governmental rules.
17:41:30 <client> you are using ZAR fell, are you south african?
17:42:12 <fell> No, but I saw your IP domain.
17:43:04 <fell> I am a german and currently in Belgium.
17:43:05 <client> oh that's interesting. thank you for your help fell
17:43:18 <client> are you a developer for gnucash?
17:44:05 <fell> A very small one.
17:44:38 <client> tell your fellow developers thank you very much for this amazing free software fell
17:45:13 <fell> SOme of them will later read the logs of this chat.
17:46:12 <client> this chat isn't very active by the look of it?
17:47:28 <warlord> it goes up and down
17:47:34 <warlord> where in ZA are you?
17:47:54 <client> I am in Johannesburg
17:48:55 <warlord> Cool. Only spent a few days there; most of my time down there I spent in Cape Town
17:50:01 <client> were you touring?
17:50:09 <warlord> yes. my wife is from there
17:51:11 <client> cape town is an amazing place.
17:51:21 <warlord> It is indeed. Our 11 days there were not nearly enough
17:51:22 <client> where are you currently at? warlord
17:51:53 <warlord> Atlanta, GA
17:51:55 <warlord> USA
17:52:19 <client> the media paints a troubling picture for your country right now
17:53:22 <warlord> I'm sure it does.
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18:03:27 <Paul_> Warloard: I have been having a lot of trouble with the reconcile feature in GnuCash trying to balance my checkbook for the last four months. Yes, I deleted a reconciled transaction (double entered from a downloaded bank statement) a few months ago and that action 'caused' the problem. BUT, the problem never would have existed if there were an option on the Reconcile window to 'Recalculate Reconciled and Cleared Balances' using a
18:03:28 <Paul_> data recorded in the register. There's probably a reason why this isn't done automatically each time Reconcile is entered or the account is opened, but I don't understand what it is. Is there a possibility to add a button to the Reconcile window to make this happen? BTW thanks for building GnuCash and supporting it with your time and expertise; other than for my idiosyncrasies, its a great program. Thanks!
18:10:11 <warlord> I dont understand what you mean by "Recalculate REconciled and Cleared Balances" -- they are computed at runtime.
18:11:21 <warlord> My first question to you: HOW did you reconcile a double-entered transaction in the first place? When you compare the bank statement to the reconcile window you would have noticed the double entry, and the ending balances would never have matched.
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18:15:02 <warlord> Paul_: that was to you
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18:24:11 <Paul_> I only cleared one of them, the wrong one.
18:28:57 <Paul_> The reconciled balance at the bottom of the account screen apparently is not calculated each time as it had the wrong value. It must be stored with in the data file and used next time the program is opened. I found a solution that worked on the FAQs that told me to add a fictitious transaction to compensate, reconcile it and then delete it. This worked OK, but shouldn't be necessary as you point out that it should be calculated
18:28:57 <Paul_> scratch each time an account is opened.
18:29:29 <Paul_> I have to go now, but will check back later.
18:45:06 <warlord> Paul_: are you using XML or SQL backend?
18:50:22 <warlord> Paul_: in XML the reconciled balance is most definitely NOT stored anywhere.
18:50:40 <warlord> it is definitely computed from all the reconciled transactions.
19:08:42 <Paul_> I'm using a Mac so I think I'm using XML.
19:13:00 <Paul_> It sure looks like it is stored somewhere. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to fudge the data and then remove the fudge to fix it! Here is the FAQ I was referring to. Jonnybal had the same problem I did. Q: I corrected a mistake and now my reconciliation balance is off. How do I fix that and reconcile my account?
19:13:00 <Paul_> A: GnuCash computes the reconciliation balance on the fly from reconciled transactions. If you mistakenly (or unmistakenly!) unreconcile a transaction it will throw off the starting balance in the reconciliation process. This is completely normal and expected behavior. To correct this, just ignore the starting balance completely! All you need to do is enter in the correct ending balance and re-reconcile the transaction.
19:13:01 <Paul_> Reconciliation is purely about the ENDING balance at a point in time. When you reconcile you're saying that at some Date (the reconciliation date) the account has some ending balance X, and you're marking all the transactions that get you to that ending balance from the beginning of time. The starting balance is there to guide you, but has no relevant meaning in the reconciliation process. Actually, thats not 100% true -- the start
19:13:04 <Paul_> balance gives you the total of the already-reconciled transactions from the beginning of time that are already included in the computation. But that's okay, you can still generally ignore it. If you unreconcile a $1 transaction then your starting balance will be off by $1, however all you need to do is re-reconcile that $1 transaction the next time to bring it back into balance.
19:13:09 <Paul_> No, this doesn't work Somehow, GnuCash got into it's head that I had a starting balance of -2465. When it happened to me, this was the opening month of my acount. It has marked everything in the account which needed to be reconciled, however I was still short somewhere on the range of $4000.00. As such, the finish button was greyed out, and I can't continue. This is NOT an ignorable issue.
19:13:14 <Paul_> However, there is a way to fix. Here is the crux of the issue. If you delete a reconciled statement, GnuCash doesn't do anything. So, go ahead and enter reconciliation with the correct ending balance. Add a transaction which deposits money (given the starting balance GnuCash has is lower) or withdraws money (if gnucash has a higher balance) from the account in question. For mine, I added a deposit of 2465. as I needed a starting ba
19:13:19 <Paul_> of 0. Reconcile as normal (it should now come to zero, or else you have a different problem), and click finish. After you are done, click on the transaction that you added to cause things to work out, and delete it. Your books will be correct, and now you can continue reconciling as normal.....
19:13:23 <Paul_> This is a problem, and should be fixed with a dynamic and/or editable starting balance...
19:13:25 <Paul_> Just enter a correcting transaction to get the starting balance you want. The account to transfer funds to/from would probably be Equity:Opening Balances. For example,
19:13:28 <Paul_> Date Num Description Transfer R Deposit Withdrawal Balance
19:13:30 <Paul_> 06/04/2007 Opening balance corrected Equity:Opening Balances 2,512.23 2,512.23
19:13:32 <Paul_> I hope that helps.
19:13:34 <Paul_> Jonnybal 07:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
19:14:11 <Paul_> Sorry for the awkward posting. Didn't know that was going to happen.
19:17:34 <warlord> The key here is that the FIRST MONTH you must reconcile your opening balance transaction.
19:17:51 <warlord> No need to cut-and-paste the FAQ. I wrote that answer.
19:18:44 <warlord> I still dont understand what the problem was, unless you failed to properly reconcile previous periods.
19:18:58 <warlord> Let's say that you reconciled correctly and then deleted a $40 transaction.
19:19:02 <warlord> (accidentally)
19:19:12 <warlord> Your starting balance will now be off by $40.
19:19:53 <warlord> At your next reconcilation period enter in the correct ending balance from your statement, and in addition to marking all the transactions on the statement also mark off the re-entered $40 txn from the previous period.
19:20:32 <warlord> In your case with a double transaction I dont see how you could have ever successfully reconciled correctly. Unless you didn't enter in the correct ending balance.
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20:08:20 <Paul_> OK. I understand what you're saying, but I did have the problem and the entries before and after I made and removed the 'fudging' transaction and reconciled it were exactly the same. But the Cleared: and Reconciled Balance: numbers both changed. I understand that the Reconciled Balance: should change, but the Cleared: number should have been unchanged as the only alteration of any record was from 'c' to 'y' in the reconciliation
20:08:20 <Paul_> column. Incidentally, the Reconciled Balance: remained the same before and after removing the reconciled fudged transaction.
20:11:43 <Paul_> I'm OK with the issue now as I used the workaround suggested by Jonnybal, and it worked for me, but from what I think you're telling me the Reconciled Balance: should update with the removal of a reconciled transaction.
20:11:58 <Paul_> Thanks for your help.
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