2011-11-15 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:05:44 <arbortender> This was after an automatic save, and amidst attempting to edit a transaction following that. Gnucash couldn't get a lock on the data after that, and I opened anyway, to find much work reverted, as though that save did not work. Is there a data file here somewhere that contains that work?
00:09:50 <warlord> Did it crash during a save?
00:10:01 <warlord> (if so, it's possible that you did lose that work)
00:13:19 <arbortender> Well, it seemed to have finished saving, and I proceeded to make an edit to an existing transaction, which is when it hung.
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00:14:01 <arbortender> I don't totally get this 'can't get the lock' thing...happens pretty frequently.
00:14:37 <warlord> That happens if gnucash is already running, or if it does not shut down cleanly.
00:14:52 <warlord> (e.g., crash, or you shutdown the computer without exiting gnucash)
00:15:37 <arbortender> hmmm. How can I check the save that occured immediately prior to the crash?
00:15:57 <arbortender> That's not what opened, I think.
00:16:27 <warlord> How did you open it?
00:16:41 <warlord> Did you just run GnuCash? Or did you double-click on a gnucash file?
00:17:37 <arbortender> Well, I let windows shut it down when it insisted on doing so, then I clicked on the quicklink to the program in the taskbar.
00:18:11 <arbortender> it automatically opened the file, but got the can't lock message, which I clicked open anyway on.
00:18:29 <arbortender> & there found some missing work.
00:19:06 <warlord> Well, it will have opened the last-used file.
00:19:16 <warlord> so if you're missing work, that means that it didn't save.
00:19:50 <warlord> You could look at your data directory and look at the time stamps on the various files?
00:20:17 <arbortender> I am...
00:21:58 <warlord> And...?
00:36:26 <arbortender> Well, I'm not making very good sense of which is which...and the logs are a little confusing.
00:37:39 <warlord> You should have your main datafile (foo.gnucash), and a bunch of backups (foo.YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.gnucash) and logs (foo.YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.log)
00:37:51 <warlord> what's the date stamp on 'foo'
00:38:24 <warlord> ?
00:38:26 <arbortender> yup. 11/14 8:56 5439K
00:39:11 <warlord> Okay, and what's the current time?
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00:39:26 <warlord> (that would imply that the file was last saved at 8:56 on the 14th)
00:39:35 <warlord> ... which means not "just now"
00:39:59 <arbortender> right...well it's 9:39pm now
00:40:09 <arbortender> & still the 14th
00:41:02 <warlord> okay, so the file was saved an hour ago.
00:41:16 <warlord> what's the size of foo vs. the most recent foo-backup?
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00:48:50 <arbortender> most recent backup was one minute prior, and smaller (which it should be, as the changes were reductions of material)
00:49:20 <arbortender> In other words, the data I tediously refined & deleted is back.
00:50:19 <warlord> that sounds like you might have multiple copies of gnucash running.
00:50:41 <warlord> perhaps your 'open anyways' was actually telling you that you had another version of gnucash running?
00:53:49 <warlord> ... and then you went to that already-running version and saved over your file?
00:54:12 <warlord> Perhaps you should revert to the (smaller) backup file?
00:54:42 <arbortender> Maybe...I'm not clear on how to discern that. Can I just open it & check, without doing any further damage?
00:55:07 <arbortender> I'm also not clear on how to prevent that.
00:55:15 <warlord> Yes, so long as you don't save. HOWEVER, it will change the "most recently accessed" file.
00:55:39 <warlord> ... so you will need to be careful on the *next* run of gnucash to make sure you open the real data file.
00:55:50 <warlord> But yes, you can just File -> Open the backup file to peruse it.
00:58:25 <arbortender> which will still be foo?
00:58:31 <arbortender> I mean...
00:58:54 <warlord> the backup is the foo-yyyymmddhhmmss file
00:59:12 <arbortender> the real data file will still be foo, after I open Foo.yymmddhmmss...
00:59:41 <warlord> depends on your definition of 'real data file'
00:59:50 <arbortender> hmmm
00:59:57 <warlord> after you open the backup file, once you are done you should immediately open the 'real data file'
01:00:36 <warlord> remember, gnucash will always reopen the last-used file. if your last used file was a backup file, then that's what gnucash will re-open next time. So if you're not careful you will start modifying your backup file instead of your 'real' file
01:01:49 <arbortender> If the backup file is the right file, can I then save it as foo?
01:02:18 <arbortender> thus replacing the present foo, which I think is reverted?
01:02:20 <warlord> of course. I would recommend File -> Save As
01:02:35 <arbortender> ok. I'll check it out.
01:04:30 <arbortender> thanks warlord
01:04:56 <warlord> you're welcome
01:05:04 <arbortender> How can I be sure that no file is open right now?
01:05:12 <warlord> reboot?
01:05:17 <warlord> ;)
01:05:43 <arbortender> well...yeh...does that screw up my plan to check that backup vs foo?
01:05:48 <warlord> Seriously, on Linux I would use 'ps' to see if there are any gnucash processes running. I dont know the windows equivalen.t
01:06:15 <warlord> no.. I'm sure you dont have a version running with the backup file.
01:06:30 <warlord> And you could always reboot after you 'revert' the backup.
01:11:04 <arbortender> ok, so when I try to open either foo or foo.xxxxx, no lock message should occur?
01:12:18 <warlord> Correct.
01:12:33 <warlord> certainly for the .yyyymmdd.. version.
01:12:47 <warlord> If one does come up then you might want to verify that there is no gnucash already running
01:13:55 <arbortender> ok. Gnucash does not SEEM to be running (not lit in the quicklinks taskbar), but then it didn't seem to be running when I got that message either. I'll see.
01:15:14 <warlord> ok
01:15:37 <arbortender> Window task manager doesn't indicate any instances either.
01:16:27 <warlord> okay. so you shouldn't get the warning
01:19:28 <arbortender> I didn't...upon opening the backup. It doesn't know my tabs, for one thing.
01:19:38 <arbortender> looking at it now
01:20:14 <warlord> correct, because it's a "different" data file. (different 'foo' name)
01:28:37 <arbortender> Well, I am having a hard time discerning from the backup whether it is in any better condition than the main file, as it is also missing some transactions & some deletions. Seem's like I'd better just re-open the main foo & then rewind to the last place I can confirm...dang.
01:29:00 <warlord> sorry...
01:29:02 <arbortender> How to stop that from happening? There was an occurence earlier today also, with data lost in a crash.
01:29:03 <warlord> save early, save often
01:29:27 <warlord> or better yet, get off windows ;)
01:29:50 <arbortender> Yeah, save is really slow, but I have it set to autosave + I poke save after particularly tedious transactions.
01:30:36 <warlord> if it's that slow you must have LOTS of data...
01:30:51 <warlord> (or really slow disk)
01:30:53 <arbortender> It's set for 20 minute intervals....but what's lost (both times today) is clearly more than 20 minutes of work.
01:31:27 <warlord> my data file is under 800KB (compressed)
01:31:45 <warlord> I dont know -- I dont use Autosave.
01:31:57 <warlord> ... and I dont know if autosave makes a backup...
01:32:01 <arbortender> Pretty quick disk, I think? but probably getting to be lots of data...several year catchup project underway:-!
01:32:09 <warlord> ... and if you had multiple gnucashes running, that would do it.
01:33:08 <arbortender> 5439KB uncompressed. should I be compressing it?
01:33:29 <warlord> I would.
01:33:44 <warlord> Why did you turn off compression?
01:33:53 <arbortender> is that a function in gnucash that I can set?
01:34:05 <arbortender> I'm not sure that I did...?
01:34:11 <warlord> Yes.. under Edit -> Preferences
01:34:21 <arbortender> maybe it is compressed? lemme see here.
01:34:41 <warlord> If your file is 6MB compressed, that's a LOT of data!
01:35:42 <arbortender> it is not compressed. If I just check that box...it compresses it & no problem with accessing the compressed file?
01:36:15 <arbortender> does that speed access?
01:36:53 <arbortender> and/or saving of foo?
01:37:43 <warlord> it should.. writing 1M is faster than writing 6M
01:37:53 <warlord> no problem -- gnucash does detection.
01:38:02 <warlord> can open compressed v. uncompressed.
01:38:29 <arbortender> ok. might that also resolve the error issue?
01:38:40 <warlord> i dont know
01:38:45 <warlord> probably not.
01:38:49 <warlord> you're on win7?
01:39:19 <arbortender> yes, and I did what you said a few days ago and put it on compatibilty mode for WinXP
01:39:30 <warlord> just checking again
01:39:45 <arbortender> ;-)
01:41:01 <arbortender> can anything at all be deduced from the error details?
01:41:25 <warlord> not by me
01:41:34 <arbortender> nor I
01:41:57 <warlord> i dont use windows
01:42:03 <warlord> nor am i a windows dev
01:42:12 <warlord> is there any reason you dont upgrade your system to Linux?
01:42:23 <arbortender> have I got to reboot gnu to actually DO the compression?
01:42:44 <warlord> shouldn't have to.. should just need to make a change and re-save the file
01:42:55 <arbortender> because I am chicken. Do not force me to squawk.
01:43:08 <arbortender> ah..resave
01:43:48 <arbortender> I have lost so much data over the years that transitions disturb me anymore.
01:44:03 <arbortender> all windows losses.
01:44:09 <arbortender> yak
01:44:44 <warlord> yep, which is why you should upgrade to Linux :)
01:46:57 <arbortender> My friend gave me a Linux cd & said I should just load it onto this box, alongside Win7, & try it. I gotta get this bookeeping project done first though, before I lurch off on another tangent, even if it's the proper tangent. It's got to wait until I get caught up.
01:47:32 <warlord> you could just take your gnucash datafile with you over to linux and use it there.
01:47:47 <arbortender> I saved and refreshed the gnucash data directory & it appears to be the same size.
01:48:21 <warlord> Hmm
01:48:33 <arbortender> reboot gnu?
01:48:43 <warlord> ??
01:48:51 <warlord> You could try ....
01:48:59 <warlord> Or File -> Save As foo2
01:49:51 <arbortender> is the preference setting specific to each data file or to all data files?
01:50:05 <arbortender> I had the backup open when I set that preference
01:50:49 <warlord> Should be all data files
01:51:45 <arbortender> Well, I clicked save in THAT file...
01:51:58 <arbortender> so I saved a backup of the backup
01:52:00 <arbortender> hee
01:52:33 <warlord> Oh, well... that would have changed the size of the backup file, and created a new backup... but only if you made a change first, which you shouldn't have done in the backup file in the first place.
01:52:36 <arbortender> which only produced a log...the backup file itself is still the same time as before
01:52:47 <arbortender> no changes were made
01:53:13 <arbortender> neither are compressed though
01:53:41 <warlord> it shouldn't have done a 'save' if you made no changes.
01:54:21 <arbortender> well, I clicked save, but I didn't make any changes.
01:54:48 <warlord> if you didn't make any changes then 'save' should have been greyed out and inactive.
01:56:35 <arbortender> ok...hmmm...I think what I actually did was close the two open tabs, one at a time, and there were no messages, whether I wanted to save any transactions, and then I closed gnu. I think I did not click save. Anyhow, I should open foo, and click save, and check the filesize? or make a change there first?
01:57:55 <warlord> You will need to make a change before you can save. That can include creating a new transaction and then deleting it.
01:58:03 <arbortender> ok
02:08:41 <arbortender> 457kb & took about 20 secs to write...
02:10:33 <arbortender> a weird thing is that foo appeared to be what I expected to find saved in the first place. I gotta look at it more closely.
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02:17:25 <arbortender1> that's a lot smaller.
02:18:45 <arbortender1> this room disconnected and reconnected & now I appear to be in this chat doubly. Weird.
02:20:24 <arbortender1> oh I guess my whole pidgin disconnected and reconnected. hmmm. I have to choose my battles carefully or I'll never get this done!
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02:25:03 <warlord> hmm
02:25:37 <warlord> 20s to write 500K? How old is this computer? And how much RAM do you have?
02:33:15 <arbortender1> to compress & write....a few years old 2008 I think...and um, 2GB RAM
02:34:36 <warlord> Wow, that's still pretty slow.. It doesn't take me 20s to write out my file, and my data is almost 800KB
02:35:56 <arbortender1> It seems like the foo file is now only missing the change involving the edit i was in the midst of when it crashed. That transaction, which was existing, is just gone...but all the other changes seem to have stuck. I was editing the distribution of one Tx from one asset account to another.
02:36:46 <arbortender1> I'll make another change and save it again, now that it's compressed and watch a second hand to be more precise.
02:37:24 <warlord> Okay. And glad to hear you only lost one change.
02:38:48 <arbortender1> by gosh it isn't gone either...I found it, where I left it, without the interrupted edit. very strange.
02:42:21 <warlord> Heh
02:42:57 <arbortender1> 42 seconds though.
02:43:08 <warlord> WEIRD!
02:44:14 <arbortender1> This is a ST916031 4AS SCSI Disk Device (160.04 GB) in an HP minibook
02:44:35 <arbortender1> I dunno what its rated/comparative speed is supposed to be.
02:44:58 <arbortender1> i bought it used from a friend when my last one started wankin.
02:45:06 <arbortender1> barely used
02:45:42 <warlord> Dunno.. But 42s is a LONG time to save a data file of that size.
02:46:26 <warlord> My save takes less than 4s
02:46:41 <warlord> and my (compressed) data file is 731543
02:49:08 <arbortender1> 468282
02:49:36 <arbortender1> it's a long wait.
02:50:02 <arbortender1> I dunno how to address that.
02:50:48 <arbortender1> but if it'll get me through this project, it'll do.
02:51:12 <warlord> I'm afraid I dont know.
02:51:21 <warlord> But yes, it's a very long wait.
02:51:31 <warlord> I'd blame windows ;)
02:51:38 <arbortender1> I shall.
02:52:08 <warlord> anyways, glad you got all your data back
02:52:21 <arbortender1> me too!!
02:52:30 <arbortender1> that makes me very happy.
02:52:39 <warlord> :)
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09:34:11 <warlord> @op
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15:21:10 <phunyguy_work> hello folks, not sure if you guys get this question alot, but what can we do about using a dark theme with gnucash, then not being able to see the account totals on the main tab?
15:21:20 <phunyguy_work> (black on black)
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