2011-10-27 GnuCash IRC logs

10:00:41 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
10:06:24 <warlord> W00T! Looks like someone fixed my network. Be right back...
10:06:34 *** warlord has quit IRC
10:07:05 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
10:08:13 *** CyBeRino sets mode: +o gncbot
10:09:50 <warlord> @op
10:09:51 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
10:09:55 <warlord> @op gjanssens1
10:09:56 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens1
10:15:19 *** Krzysiek_K has quit IRC
10:19:18 *** warlord changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! || publically-logged channel || latest stable: 2.4.8 || www.gnucash.org"
10:22:59 <David2> Yes, it is up here too. Now I can post a bug report about Gnucash leaving temporary files on the hard drive (in windows, at least)
10:23:21 <warlord> David2: temporary files?
10:23:31 <warlord> You mean like .xac and .log files?
10:26:40 <David2> Yes. in my \local settings\temp it stores the HTML files for reports and it leaves them there when it is closed. Then it creates a new HTML file when next it is opened. I think that it cannot find and delete the previous file because it did not keep a record of the file name anyplace.
10:27:23 <warlord> Temporary html files? Hmm... Never heard of that one.
10:27:50 <David2> yes, temporary .log files too
10:28:30 <gjanssens1> I do. David2 is correct. These html files are the reports that are being displayed in GnuCash.
10:28:54 <warlord> .log files are supposed to stick around.. gnucash will auto-delete them after some time, defined by your preferences.
10:29:12 <gjanssens1> I noticed as well that GnuCash never seems to clean them up after the reports are closed
10:29:32 <gjanssens1> The log files are the windows edition of gnucash.trace
10:29:51 <gjanssens1> I added a .log extension to make them appear as text files on a Windows system
10:29:56 <warlord> AH
10:30:25 <gjanssens1> And due to a limitation on Windows regarding the creation of temporary files they keep on piling up
10:30:45 <gjanssens1> On linux, there's only one gnucash.trace file ever as it gets overwritten with each run
10:31:00 <gjanssens1> An area that could indeed be improved.
10:31:14 *** gjanssens1 has quit IRC
10:31:16 <David2> that would be a blessing if it means that we don't have to jump through hoops to get a backtrace
10:31:49 *** gjanssens1 has joined #gnucash
10:32:16 <warlord> David2: depends on the kind of backtrace. It wont give you a C Stack Trace, but the log files will show you scheme backtraces when e.g. a report fails.
10:33:29 <David2> I have been making some really huge HTML files while learning how to get the types of reports that I want
10:33:58 <gjanssens1> @op
10:33:58 <gncbot> gjanssens1: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
10:33:59 <warlord> gjanssens1: is the html stuff only on windows? or do other OSes leave them around too?
10:34:04 <warlord> @op gjanssens1
10:34:05 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens1
10:34:20 <gjanssens1> warlord: I see it on linux too
10:34:45 <warlord> huh. Maybe a webkit artifact?
10:34:56 <gjanssens1> That's possible yes.
10:35:08 <gjanssens1> It's not really my area, so I don't know
10:35:56 <warlord> ok
10:37:59 <David2> should I go ahead with a bug report?
10:39:23 <gjanssens1> David2: you can file a bug report, better two actually
10:39:32 <gjanssens1> One for the html files, which affects all platforms
10:39:49 <gjanssens1> And one for the gnucash.trace*log files, which only happen on Windows
10:40:01 <David2> will do
10:41:42 <gjanssens1> thanks
10:42:10 <gjanssens1> Why am I gjanssens1 instead of gjanssens ?
10:42:28 <warlord> maybe someone else has gjanssens?
10:42:41 <gjanssens1> On the complete irc server then ?
10:42:51 <warlord> yep.
10:43:14 <warlord> Actually, looks like you have it, from /whois gjanssens
10:43:57 <gjanssens1> Strange. I only have one irc app open and it refuses to set gjanssens as nick
10:44:28 <warlord> the server thinks there is another connection from 94-225-216-66...
10:45:27 <gjanssens1> Do these connections time out after a while ?
10:45:53 <warlord> it should..
10:46:04 <warlord> depends on whether there is something keeping the TCP session alive
10:46:45 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
10:46:46 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
10:46:56 *** gjanssens has left #gnucash
10:47:18 <gjanssens1> Aha, thanks for pinging gjanssens
10:47:23 <warlord> you're welcome.
10:47:37 <gjanssens1> It turns out empathy had a connection open without me knowing it.
10:47:43 <warlord> interesting
10:47:45 <warlord> there you go
10:49:03 *** gjanssens1 is now known as gjanssens
10:49:45 <gjanssens> Got it. Had to disable my empathy irc account. At the moment I'm using konversation as client.
10:58:11 *** David2 has left #gnucash
11:14:18 *** kpreid has quit IRC
11:16:48 <warlord> ok
11:26:28 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
12:09:52 *** mikee has quit IRC
13:23:10 *** pnema has joined #gnucash
13:57:51 *** Krzysiek_K has joined #gnucash
14:00:03 *** Krzysiek_K has left #gnucash
14:16:02 *** oediv has joined #gnucash
14:17:32 <oediv> can i use dimensions in gnucash?
14:22:11 <warlord> what do you mean, oediv ?
14:29:25 <oediv> I mean can I add extra information to transactions which I can use in reports etc. I use it for private accounting and I for instance want to record all my and my girlfriends spendings and earnings. For every transaction i for instance want to record if I spend the money myself or my gf did. Can I achieve this without having to add two accounts for every type of costs?
14:31:24 <warlord> You could add the data to the Action field, or Notes field.. (visible in double-line mode). However none of the current reports really act on that data. Why not have two asset accounts, one for you and one for her?
14:31:36 <warlord> (a better question is why are you accounting for your GF's purchases?)
14:31:55 <oediv> because I'm our 'accountant'
14:32:04 <oediv> and it's just an example
14:33:53 <oediv> the fact is that I'm doing a basic course in accounting for my work and I'm using gnucash for my personal accounting at the same time to 1) practice with accounting and 2) to get better insights in our financial situation
14:35:14 <oediv> the situation is more realistic when you add more dimensions
14:36:17 <oediv> for instance if I also want to record the sort of store I bought something and the type of product I bought (food vs non-food)
14:38:29 <oediv> If I need different accounts for every combination I would get 1) Costs - GF - Store A - Non Food, 2) Costs - GF -Store B - Non food, 3) Costs - me - Store A - Food, etc..
14:39:07 <oediv> you would get a huge amounts of accounts. And to generate a report of all our non-food spendings would be quite complex
14:40:06 <oediv> The action field or notes field might be ideal for this, if i could specify some kind of filtering on the data in that field when generating reports
14:40:44 <warlord> Well, this is where you would use the description for the store and the account for the type
14:40:51 <warlord> IMHO
14:42:19 <oediv> Can I filter on the contents of the description when generating reports?
14:42:38 <oediv> If i for instance want to sum up all my spendings in store A
14:42:40 <warlord> I do not believe any of the reports currently filter based on those fields.. MAYBE the transaction report, but certainly none of the others.
14:43:22 <warlord> For that, yes.. You can do a search for transactions to store A, and then run a Register Report which will sum it up for you
14:45:53 <oediv> hmm interesting. Are there any other reports I can run on search results?
14:47:59 <warlord> Nope, that's really the only one.
14:51:42 <oediv> So I guess I cannot really use dimensions in gnucash. Are you familiar with the term 'cost centre'? I think a 'cost centre' can also be seen as a dimension.
14:56:23 <warlord> GnUcash doesn't support that.
14:56:29 <warlord> (at least not directly)
14:56:47 <oediv> what about indirectly?
15:11:41 <kimmo> see derek, there's demand for cost centers!
15:12:28 <kimmo> oediv, I've worked around that problem by creating leaf accounts for different cost centers
15:13:29 <oediv> so you have the 'same' account multiple times? Once for every cost center?
15:14:49 <kimmo> yeah
15:15:46 <kimmo> so for example, I have account "1234", general sales, with the placeholder flag set, and underneath I have "1234,11" general sales cc 1 and "1234,12" general sales cc 2
15:16:29 <kimmo> it is rather cumbersome though, since I've had to manually select the proper accounts for my saved custom reports
15:16:42 <oediv> I can see that
15:17:11 <kimmo> then again, I only have about ~15 or so accounts that are in the other cost center, and I could save the reports, so I can get by
15:17:39 <kimmo> having multiple cost centers each with a full set of accounts is something I would not want to do
15:17:42 <kimmo> heh
15:17:43 <warlord> hey, patches are always welcome :-D
15:17:52 <kimmo> didn't I just pay up? ;)
15:18:08 <kimmo> with $20 you get what 15 minutes of development, aight?
15:18:09 <kimmo> heh
15:19:23 <kimmo> if I wasn't a small business owner, I'd have time to whip those up, but I wouldn't have the need anymore
15:19:36 <oediv> does sound like a bit more work :)
15:20:03 <oediv> 15 min of development wouldn't get you much new functionality imho
15:22:01 <oediv> One question about (custom) reports: Can i save the settings I use for a specific report to reuse it later on?
15:26:30 <kimmo> yeah
15:26:59 <kimmo> just give your report a title in the options, and click on the "Add report" button, it'll be saved in the Reports->Custom
15:27:04 *** pnema has quit IRC
15:27:40 *** pnema has joined #gnucash
15:28:22 <oediv> that was easy enough :)
15:31:35 <oediv> One more question.., up until know i've been using ofx import to import bank account information. If i do this I have to use a 'wizard' which lets me choose the right account for every transaction. Is it also possible to import complete transactions without having to use a wizard?
15:31:57 <kimmo> no idea about imports, sorry
15:32:26 <oediv> For instance: 10 euros from BankAccount X to Costs: Non food
15:41:49 <DimStar> Hi all.. has been a while and I remember I'm still stuck on guile2 compatibility and gnucash. (some info can be seen in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=655901 )
15:42:23 <DimStar> does anybody have a setup around with guile2 that could at least reproduce / confirm this bug?
15:42:29 <warlord> No, because the import formats are all incomplete.
15:42:44 <warlord> Note that the importer should learn from past behavior
15:44:04 <oediv> I know and it does a nice job, but why learn something/someone something new if you already have someone who knows how to do it the right way :)
15:44:17 * DimStar just sees a 2.4.8 release mentioning guile-2 fixes... checking
15:45:29 <oediv> if i could just import a transaction I would also be able to track my cash spendings, export them to for instance transactions in xml and then import them into gnucash
15:50:41 <warlord> oediv: sounds great. I look forward to the patch ;-)
15:52:18 *** kpreid has quit IRC
15:52:46 <oediv> I haven't even checked out the source :), it does sound fairly basic though. Do you have any tips were I should start to get familiar with the appropriate source?
15:53:45 *** nomeata has joined #gnucash
15:54:12 <warlord> oediv: you should look into src/import-export which contains all the various import-export routines, including the generic import UI
15:54:59 <warlord> The main issue with just "importing" xml is making sure your internal references are correct. Objects have GUIDs, but each data file has a unique set of GUIDs. So your Assets:Checking is "different" than my Assets:Checking.
15:55:36 <warlord> So somewhere in there you need to determine whether the to-be-imported object matches the existing object, and check compatibilities, etc. (e.g. currencies)
15:55:54 <warlord> It's a harder problem than just "add this XML to the existing data file"
15:56:34 <oediv> isn't it possible to translate the name in the import file into the correct guid corresponding to the correct account?
15:56:51 <oediv> you mean just edit my gnucash-data-file?
15:58:28 <oediv> I've briefly looked at that too, but it still need to generate a guid for the transaction in that case, isn't it?
15:59:22 <warlord> you should never just "edit your data file"
16:00:23 <oediv> and the same thing goes for manually inserting data into the sql-database (if you use a sql-backend)?
16:00:29 <warlord> right
16:00:43 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
16:00:45 <warlord> you should consider the datafile and database read-only.
16:00:54 <warlord> ... unless you use the gnucash APIs.
16:01:56 <warlord> as for translating the name... That's the first step, yes. However then you have to validate the import. Take a look at the QSF-Import code (that's been removed from current SVN but exists back in history). It was trying to do exactly what you want; Import xml.
16:02:17 <warlord> merging the data in is harder than it seems
16:05:21 <oediv> I'll look into it another time. I'm about to call it a day.
16:11:02 <oediv> tnx for all the information!
16:16:33 *** oediv has quit IRC
17:16:11 *** kpreid has quit IRC
17:20:29 *** Quick-Ni1 has joined #gnucash
17:21:09 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
17:23:07 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
17:24:26 *** Quick-Nic has quit IRC
17:34:44 *** nomeata has quit IRC
17:48:58 *** markjenkinsparit has quit IRC
18:16:28 *** kpreid has quit IRC
18:25:05 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
18:29:30 *** pnema has quit IRC
19:06:51 *** kpreid has quit IRC
19:09:52 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
19:15:57 *** fbond has quit IRC
19:18:53 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
19:59:26 *** djinn has quit IRC
20:12:00 *** wizkid239 has joined #gnucash
20:15:58 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
22:02:15 *** fDavid has quit IRC
23:15:56 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
23:51:43 *** donchriscoe has joined #gnucash
23:54:17 *** donchriscoe has quit IRC