2011-09-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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08:16:38 <warlord> Marty-Rick: Nope, GnuCash does not do payroll. You can use it to account for your payroll, but it wont compute it for you.
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10:01:03 <BinaryKhaos> Hi everyone. I am trying to get gnucash up and running in german under a en_US Gentoo system. Could someone point me into the right direction what packages I have to consider or what I have to watch out for? So far... I have been quite unsuccessful. :(
10:16:59 <warlord> BinaryKhaos: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_I_want_to_use_GnuCash_in_my_own_language
10:17:31 <BinaryKhaos> I know that but thanks. It's more a what do I need to recompile or stuff question. :)
10:17:51 <BinaryKhaos> (simply setting LC_ALL or anything alike won't fire up gnucash in german)
10:18:42 <warlord> You do not need to recompile anything.
10:19:15 <warlord> Setting LANG before running GnuCash should do it. It works for me on Fedora.
10:19:27 <warlord> You just need to choose the correct de_DE locale, and make sure you have it installed.
10:19:31 <warlord> Can you run anything else in German?
10:20:50 <BinaryKhaos> Nope, nothing. I keep everything except for english away from the system that's the reason why I am in trouble now. :-)
10:21:02 <BinaryKhaos> But according to locale -a everything is in place.
10:21:17 <BinaryKhaos> And nls support is available too.
10:22:07 <warlord> and when you run LANG=de_DE.UTF-8 gnucash --- what happens?
10:22:32 <warlord> (sorry, I have to run -- I'll be back in an hour or so)
10:22:42 <BinaryKhaos> English- why is expected since no "locales" get installed with gnucash. That's what I am trying to solve.
10:22:52 <BinaryKhaos> s/why/what/
10:22:59 <BinaryKhaos> Sure, no problem. Thanks anyways.
10:23:11 <warlord> GnuCash installs all its translations.
10:23:37 <warlord> What's printed on the terminal?>
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10:25:00 <BinaryKhaos> Nothing, actually.
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12:02:39 <Marty-Rick> what do business users use to calculate payroll, any plugins?
12:03:03 <Marty-Rick> warlord's answer understood
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12:19:43 <warlord> Marty-Rick: Payroll is EXTREMELY locale specific. The rules vary not only country to country, but also state, county, city, and sometimes even more detailed differences. How were you doing payroll before?
12:23:02 <Marty-Rick> currently quickbooks on windows system. QB and other software forces upgrades and service agreements and I have several that are coming up in the next six months. Contemplating a migration to linux
12:27:26 <warlord> Well, when I had payroll I contracted out to ADP to do it; and then I just entered the results into GnuCash.
12:28:04 <warlord> Honestly, if GnuCash had a payroll module it would require a lot of work to set up, because you would have to manually enter all the tax tables/rates/deductions/etc yourself.
12:30:03 <warlord> but seriously, I doubt gnucash will add payroll until you find someone to donate a payroll module. It's not high on anyone's list, and frankly it's a very complicated thing.
12:34:35 <Marty-Rick> I know it is complicated. before QB I did payroll on spreadsheets. Lots of fiddly formulas, but once done, only needed to be changed when the rates changed.
12:36:40 <Marty-Rick> QB is easier, but does not allow you to manually change the tax tables, you must subscribe. Plust they do the forced upgrade thing. For a large shop, the expense is trivial, but for a one man show with a couple of (very) part time E'ees it's annoying to say the least.
12:36:47 <Marty-Rick> Thanks for the answer
12:39:18 <warlord> You're welcome. Sorry it wasn't what you wanted.
12:39:25 <warlord> PAtches always welcome ;-)
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13:10:47 <Marty-Rick> If someone wanted code a payroll module, where would they look for info?
13:10:53 <xorrbit> http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/49487/discuss
13:11:52 <smw> xorrbit, but it is not a web based program
13:11:58 <smw> xorrbit, who cares?
13:12:02 <xorrbit> Marty-Rick: bo-keep has a payroll plugin: http://www.nongnu.org/bokeep/
13:13:07 <Marty-Rick> xorrbit, txs
13:14:50 <xorrbit> arbitrary code execution is a big deal
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13:23:24 <warlord> xorrbit: neither of those are gnucash plugins
13:23:31 <warlord> ... which is what Marty-Rick was asking about.
13:24:09 <warlord> Marty-Rick: you would probably need to code it in C + glade with the ability to load configuration, either via scheme or xml with user settings.
13:29:56 <Marty-Rick> xorrbit: the bokeep payroll is also Canada / Manitoba only, right?
13:30:16 <xorrbit> yes that's right
13:31:19 <Marty-Rick> warlord: is there a place in the website where one can find info? I'm not competent to code it myself, but may see if I can interest a couple of folks I know
13:31:38 <smw> warlord, you are a developer, right? Got any idea which function populates the list of accounts when you are adding a transaction?
13:32:02 <smw> warlord, right now I am reading trunk/src/register/ledger-core
13:32:57 <Marty-Rick> answered my own question: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Development#Code
13:33:00 <warlord> Marty-Rick: I'm not sure what kind of info you are looking for on the website. There's the wiki, and the source code?
13:33:38 <warlord> smw: There's a load function in there. I don't recall the name offhand.
13:34:17 <smw> warlord, is it in ledger core? do you know which file is most likely to have it?
13:34:44 <smw> warlord, I have poor C skills. If I find the load function that is a pretty isolated component I can play with
13:34:48 <smw> so that I can learn
13:34:50 <warlord> probably, but I dont remember. grep for 'load'
13:34:57 <warlord> in all the register subdirs
13:35:43 <smw> $ grep load -r *| grep -v .svn | wc
13:35:44 <smw> 64 432 5323
13:35:50 <smw> only 64 entries
13:36:52 <warlord> THat means only 64 places to look.
13:37:02 <smw> yep
13:37:30 <smw> ledger-core/split-register-load.c. Would a split register file also have info for when you are not in split mode?
13:38:23 <warlord> yes
13:38:38 <warlord> registers generally display splits
13:38:48 <warlord> (don't think "split transaction -- think in terms of the underlying data objects)
13:39:07 * smw wonders why you people could not just rewrite the program in python. Can't be that hard. right? :-)
13:39:18 <smw> ok
13:39:34 <warlord> LOL
13:39:43 <warlord> smw: see the FAQ
13:39:58 <smw> warlord, yep, saw the FAQ :-P
13:40:41 <xorrbit> he
13:43:49 <kimmo> score +1 for gnucash users
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13:47:07 <syn2fin> If I have a monthly bill (eg, power) that I split with my roommate, but I am the one physically paying the bill, should I mark his contribution as an accounts receivable? Or should I treat it as an Income? Or something else?
13:47:26 <syn2fin> eg, power is $100, I pay $100, and he pays me $50
13:49:42 <smw> syn2fin, I make an income acct reimbursements.
13:52:50 <kimmo> syn2fin, you should make it an asset
13:52:56 <warlord> syn2fin: "AR" is technically the right way.. Their portion is an Asset to you.
13:54:22 <kimmo> syn2fin, the invoice should be entered as $50 expense ("utilities" acct), $50 asset ("loaned to roomie" acct") and $100 either directly to the checking acct or AP
13:54:41 <warlord> I wouldn't enter it as an invoice at all. Just use a regular split transaction
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14:04:22 <syn2fin> thanks guys
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14:49:43 <Seth> hi, can i use gnucash on an webserver also (per (fast)cgi, for example) to manage my finances and communicate with my bank? and does it support ebics?
14:50:50 <smw> Seth, how would you use it on a webserver? I don't think it has a web interface
14:52:38 <Seth> i would call it with php per fastcgi, its ability to use databases is could be very useful here
14:56:19 <warlord> Seth: No
14:56:51 <warlord> We You might be able to write a webapp around the python bindings, but you'd effectively be reimplementing 60% of the app
14:57:08 <Seth> no, i cant use it on my server or no, it doesnt support ebics?
14:57:10 <warlord> As for EBICS -- I dont know
14:57:18 <Seth> ah, ok
14:57:42 <warlord> (but I think "no", unless AqB supports it)
14:58:23 <Seth> mmh, thats sad. ok, thx for your help, smw and warlord ;)
14:58:38 <warlord> Seth: check AqB
14:59:08 <warlord> GnuCash DOES support HBCI
14:59:16 <warlord> (through AqB)
14:59:27 * smw wishes US used HBCI
14:59:54 * smw wishes that the banks in the US would ever use OFX without charging a fortune!
15:00:06 <smw> s/ever/even/
15:00:07 <Seth> why, what are you using over there?
15:00:27 <smw> Seth, OFX... if you pay a fortune
15:00:35 <smw> $10/mo not worth it
15:00:58 <smw> although to be fair chase gives it free if you have one of their credit cards
15:01:03 <smw> (which I am denied for)
15:01:28 <smw> capital one bank accounts have it, credit cards do not :-\
15:01:46 <warlord> it would be nice if banks in the US used an open protocol that has well-defined test vectors and/or a test server.
15:02:31 <smw> warlord, yes it wold
15:02:52 <smw> warlord, when I take over a bank, I will be sure to do that
15:03:08 <warlord> LOL. I miss NetBank
15:03:11 <smw> I here they are selling cheap now. $10 billion?
15:03:19 <warlord> lol
15:04:12 <smw> warlord, CO bought ING Direct for only $9 Billion
15:04:33 <warlord> I heard. I am hoping that ING direct doesn't change.
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15:05:31 <smw> warlord, I believe they will eventually merge them, but it won't be too bad. Probably you would loose the great overdraft rates
15:05:55 <warlord> I still miss NetBank ;)
15:06:23 <smw> warlord, but I am right now pissed at CO. Apparently over the internet I gave them enough information for them to give me money (a credit card) but not enough for them to take my money (deposit account)
15:06:52 <smw> for the deposit account they wanted a copy of my SS card and drivers license
15:06:55 <smw> and pay stub
15:07:04 <warlord> Hmm
15:07:12 <smw> (but they just handed me a CC with no proof)
15:08:05 <smw> I am glad they are protecting me against someone putting money under my name. Do I really care if someone signs up for a CC in my name? :-P
15:16:52 <warlord> haha
15:18:49 <smw> I am on hold with CO
15:19:03 <smw> all I can say at this point is that I am not sure I want to give them my money
15:19:13 <smw> they have the highest interest rates...
15:19:18 <smw> free ofx
15:19:25 <smw> (banking department only)
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15:19:54 <wizkid238> at least here in the US, they'll probably have to withhold money from the interest they pay ... so they have to prove you as you ... with the cc you get screwed, but they don't so there is less incentive to care
15:20:16 <CppIsWeird> how do i go about finding if my bank supports AqBanking?
15:20:33 <wizkid238> that's why I would think the more checks for deposits
15:21:50 <warlord> CppIsWeird: Banks support protocols, as does AqB. The question is does your bank support an AqB-supported protocol
15:23:19 <CppIsWeird> this body of information is completely foreign to me. i have no idea how to investigate it. do i just call up and ask?
15:24:13 <CppIsWeird> what would i search for on my banks website?
15:27:12 <CppIsWeird> hmm, i seem to have found a forum post that says my bank does not support a "Direct Connect protocol" i assume thats my answer.
15:27:35 <warlord> CppIsWeird: try http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Importing.2FExporting_Data
15:28:08 <CppIsWeird> ok, i will work with that, thank you. :)
15:28:38 <smw> wizkid238, withholding interest is not needed in the US unless the IRS is pissed that you don't pay your interest taxes
15:28:42 <warlord> CppIsWeird: but if your bank doesn't support OFX Direct Connect you're out of luck.
15:29:11 <smw> finally! I have a CO checking account
15:29:43 <wizkid238> smw: true, but every bank that I have dealt with including ING, does it automatically, just so the IRS doesn't get pissed at them
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15:30:03 <wizkid238> smw: so they still need to be able to prove who you are ... hence the extra stuff
15:30:14 <smw> wizkid238, does every online bank require this much to prove who you are?
15:30:37 <wizkid238> i've only used ING, so I can't tell you.
15:30:46 <smw> does ING?
15:31:33 <wizkid238> and I've had my ING account for 10 years, so I don't remember what ING asked for, but it must not have been out of line from Chase or BOA at the time, or I wouldn't have used them
15:33:24 <warlord> I don't recall ING asking for much at all, but then again I only have ING because they aquired the assets from NB
15:34:12 <wizkid238> CO is a pain in the ass ... so maybe its just them
15:34:20 * wizkid238 shrugs
15:34:21 <smw> I think capitalone is just incompetent... they need to hire people to go over the processes from a user perspective
15:34:41 <smw> I am not talking about requiring the docs
15:34:43 <wizkid238> i don't think most people would disagree with you
15:35:01 <smw> I am talking about their entire handling of me giving them the documents
15:36:18 <smw> If there are things that the *MUST* do, I understand that. But they handled it wrong. When I signed up online, it should have told me what I needed to fax and where. It should have accepted scanned copies uploaded.
15:36:34 <smw> the second they processed it I should have seen those accounts show up under my login
15:37:32 <smw> Instead, all it had was red lettering (not big and bold) that was a paragraph long that made it look like my signup had failed
15:37:40 <smw> with a number to call to find out more info
15:38:28 <smw> after calling the guy put me on hold to find out what to do.
15:38:58 <smw> They only accepted it by mail or fax so I had to go to fedex
15:39:10 <smw> then they processed it the same day.
15:39:18 <smw> Except... they did not inform me of that
15:39:31 <wizkid238> smw: excuse my language, but sounds like they fucked up
15:39:39 <smw> yep
15:39:42 <wizkid238> smw: your assessment is correct
15:40:26 <smw> I just got my accounts linked and now I am ready to use it
15:40:40 <smw> but I am not quite sure using them is worth it.
15:40:42 <smw> lol
15:41:04 <warlord> I've been using GnuCash for a long time, and I've never used the importers.
15:41:21 <smw> warlord, why not?
15:41:35 <smw> with a small investment they could make themselves one of the best direct banks...
15:42:08 <smw> hell, didn't they acquire the talent from ING?
15:42:59 <warlord> Because I don't see the point of it. I enter transactions when they happen, and I reconcile against the statement. What benefit do I get from importing except no longer being able to detect a bank error.
15:45:41 <smw> oh, I also can't close the second checking account I opened by accident
15:45:53 <xorrbit> you don't have to enter transactions any more = saves you time
15:46:15 <smw> exactly
15:46:28 <smw> do it often enough and you will detect any important error
15:47:05 <smw> I only do automatic import on the card that I use to buy food every day...
15:52:02 <smw> omfg. Now I need to call them again to get them to send me checks...
15:54:30 <wizkid238> smw: shitty customer service ... I would close the accounts and let them know that its because of all the bullshit
15:54:56 <wizkid238> i'd go to http://www.ally.com/
15:55:01 <wizkid238> and just be done with it
15:55:17 <smw> I agree
15:55:26 <smw> can't close the credit card though
15:55:41 <smw> they are the only ones at the moment who are willing to give me one :-P
15:56:14 <smw> wizkid238, wait, closing accounts is not possible without submitting it in writing
15:56:25 <wizkid238> smw: nice
15:56:29 <wizkid238> idiots
15:56:29 <smw> anyone else have a recommendation?
15:56:36 <warlord> xorrbit: It doesn't save me time, I still need to go through each receipt and verify it against what gets entered.
15:57:03 <smw> wizkid238, it means I get to vent in writing
15:57:10 <wizkid238> hah
15:57:12 <smw> then again... I have never sent out a letter!
15:57:31 <smw> (no really... I have never needed to ever send a letter...)
15:58:05 <wizkid238> it's just stupid ... can't wait for ING to be like this (fully expect for ING to become like CO, not the other way around), if/when that happens.... I'll move my money
15:58:09 * smw is 18 and what those idiots in education call a "digital native"
15:58:58 <smw> wizkid238, I am hoping that the people at the top in CO figure out they have the talent and can steal from ING
15:59:00 <wizkid238> smw: you are the last person in the world for them to piss off ... Chase pissed me off when I was in college.... they will never see a penny of my earnings, ever.
15:59:02 <smw> not destroy it
15:59:27 <wizkid238> smw: i feel they bought ING because they were a threat
15:59:43 <wizkid238> M$ philosphy ...
15:59:54 <wizkid238> off to a meeting ...
15:59:58 <smw> wizkid238, lol. I have a chase account now. The only reason I am pissed at them is they won't give me a CC. But I know that their decision makes sense :-P
15:59:59 * wizkid238 at work
16:00:02 <smw> lol
16:00:52 <wizkid238> smw: CHASE .... RUN .... Assholes screwed me out of more than $1000 in fees .... in ONE MONTH
16:01:06 <wizkid238> for a "free" checking account
16:01:21 * wizkid238 off to meeting ... now in ranting mood ... meeting will be fun :)
16:02:00 <warlord> LOL
16:07:05 <smw> bank direct looks cool, you get American Airlines miles for holding a balance
16:07:29 <smw> since I moved across the country, I use air travel much more :-)
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18:30:08 <smw> wizkid238, ally has no ofx direct connect
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20:38:55 <mishehu> wizkid238: hmm... don't I know you?
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