2011-06-11 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:07:06 <rockfx01> is anyone familiar with scheme online?
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04:47:26 <rockfx01> nevermind, I figured out what I was trying to do but I am starting to find there are some ugly errors in the scheme reports
04:48:21 <rockfx01> (well, maybe 'ugly' is too harsh, but it is a little bit of an annoyance)
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06:52:09 <barbara> is the gnucash data file format compatible with all Win & Linux versions?
06:54:37 <barbara> I have GC 2.2.9 on Ubuntu 10.04 lts and 2.4.4 on windows. I want to use both versions with the same file on a server, (not at the same time) and want to be sure there will be no coruption.
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07:59:44 <JoTraGo> Is the data file format consistent across all version and platforms of GNUCash? Can I freely open files with different versions of GNU Cash from WIndows & Ubuntu?
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08:30:39 <warlord> JoTraGo: so long as you use the XML format, you *should* be good to go.
08:30:52 <warlord> (at least between 2.2.9 and 2.4)
08:54:54 <JoTraGo> By XML file you mean the normal, extensionless file GC creates locally? (as opposed to using the Database backend)
09:00:23 <warlord> Well, it's extensionless in 2.2; 2.4 will add a .gnucash extension
09:00:41 <warlord> but yes. 2.2 only supports XML. So if you already have your data file then you're find.
09:00:43 <warlord> fine
09:01:02 <warlord> in 2.4 when you Save-As you have a choice, and that's what can get you in trouble.
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09:07:37 <JoTraGo> OK great, I see the choices in 2.4. I had an existing file so I have never used Save-As, I will be careful! Tks a mil
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09:11:40 <warlord> you're welcome.
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12:45:11 <rockfx01> I am working on making the (scheme) reports compliant with XHTML 1.0 Transitional, and have got it almost 100% there, but I need help with one outstanding issue.
12:47:13 <rockfx01> When there is an ampersand '&' in the text (for example, a payee called "AT&T" or the text "Total Liabilities & Equity"), the validator throws an error because it needs to be encoded as "&amp;"
12:48:01 <rockfx01> I've done pretty well with it so far but I'm not quite sure how to fix this issue since I am not a scheme expert
12:55:16 <warlord> Obviously somewhere you need to do a translation, but the question is: where is the right place for the translation?
13:07:23 <rockfx01> right :P I dunno!
13:07:58 <rockfx01> BUT... other than that issue, every report I have tested so far shows up as XHTML 1.0 Transitional compliant, except where there are & in the text
13:08:47 <rockfx01> there are some reports i can't run fully though since I don't use the business features
13:10:25 <rockfx01> BTW, I _think_ https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612215 can be closed, but I'm not sure. webkit replaced Guile in 2.4, correct?
13:10:26 <warlord> Make a test file with some test biz txns
13:10:39 <warlord> no, webkit replaced gtkhtml
13:10:41 <warlord> ;)
13:11:34 <rockfx01> ah, ok. is that bug still valid then? Are budget reports still rendered to HTML using Guile or are they scheme?
13:11:58 <rockfx01> sorry, I'm just getting started on modifying the reports (I think i have a good handle on it so far though)
13:16:59 <warlord> guile is scheme
13:17:07 <rockfx01> ah ok then :)
13:17:20 <warlord> so.. yes :)
13:17:32 <rockfx01> I will have to try some tests later then on this defect, I haven't run any of the budgeting reports either
13:18:17 <rockfx01> but everything has been pretty fast other than the General Journal report since it has to compile all of my transactions
13:19:19 <warlord> Yeah, and it might be worse than O(n)
13:44:33 <rockfx01> btw do you have any idea why <font> tags are used instead of CSS? I see there is a bunch of CSS at the top of some of the pages, but then <font> and other styling tags such as the bgcolor attribute are used in some of the html elements rather than css
13:45:00 <rockfx01> (I ask because the <font> tags are mucking things up for meeting XHTML specs on some of the reports)
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13:46:50 <warlord> well, because gtkthml doesnt support css, and 2.4 still supports gtkhtml
13:47:50 <rockfx01> it doesn't support css? seriously?
13:48:21 <rockfx01> are there plans to drop gtkhtml support for 2.6 or will the reports still need to support it?
13:48:50 <rockfx01> because frankly the current state of the reports seems pretty grim IMO. the reporting in gnucash has always been a weak spot IMO
13:49:14 <rockfx01> (although I actually thought 2.4 was a step back from 2.2.9 to be quite honest)
13:49:36 <rockfx01> from a user's perspective, anyways
13:50:24 <rockfx01> not to mention there is already a lot of css used in the reports to format tables and other elements
13:51:48 <warlord> yes, seriously, gtkhtml does not suport css, which is why we changed to webkit
13:52:04 <warlord> i'm pretty sure we will drop gtkhtml completely for 2.6
13:52:18 <rockfx01> :)
13:52:21 <warlord> how was it a step backwards?
13:52:33 <warlord> (the main new features were SQL support)
13:52:56 <rockfx01> visually, I recall the reports in 2.2.9 looking nicer, but it has been quite a while since I've used 2.2.9 so I don't recall exactly
13:53:30 <warlord> ah, that's probably just webkit v gtkhtml
13:54:19 <rockfx01> well, if we can move entirely to webkit I might be able to work some magic on my end to redo some of the scheme and html code and start making things look a little more pretty
13:54:41 <warlord> that's fine.
13:54:45 <rockfx01> I don't know what your timeline is for a 2.6 release though, it would probably require a lot of work to really make any big improvements
13:54:54 <warlord> you can focus completely on css for now and just target 2.6
13:55:05 <warlord> I think 2012
13:55:25 <warlord> probably targeting gnome3 support
13:55:30 <rockfx01> OK that is probably doable assuming my job doesn't blow up in my face because we have been insanely busy lately
13:55:50 <warlord> busy is good
13:58:05 <rockfx01> yes and no. My brain could use a break :) I do software QA and right now I am trying to wrap my head around a gigantic new project we just started which is no small task
13:59:23 <rockfx01> so if my brain doesn't explode between now and 2012 I will try to make some headway in the reporting side of things
13:59:53 <warlord> in what part of the world/country do you reside?
13:59:59 <rockfx01> Chicago
14:00:29 <warlord> Gotcha.
14:00:34 <warlord> Great city
14:01:06 <rockfx01> it is great - especially if you live somewhere else during January through March :P
14:01:12 <warlord> Heh! true.
14:01:14 <rockfx01> which I do not :(
14:01:26 <rockfx01> where are you from?
14:02:18 <warlord> Atlanta
14:02:37 <warlord> (although I lived in Boston for 20 years before moving here last year, and lived in Cleveland for the 18 before that)
14:09:03 <rockfx01> well, at least you have warmer weather
14:10:23 <warlord> I could do without the 3-4 months of 95+ weather.
14:10:43 <rockfx01> Haha
14:11:08 <rockfx01> i would much rather have that than the chicago winters
14:13:36 <warlord> k
14:13:58 <warlord> but i figure i can always add clothing when im cold... when im hot I can only remove so much
14:14:14 <rockfx01> lol
14:14:44 <rockfx01> true
14:15:06 <rockfx01> hawaii would be a nice medium :)
14:15:28 <warlord> maybe....
14:15:32 <warlord> or san diego?
14:15:39 <rockfx01> yeah
14:15:57 <rockfx01> regarding gnucash, are there any specific goals in mind for the reporting system for 2.6?
14:17:06 <warlord> Honestly I dont know.
14:18:48 <rockfx01> are there any plans to move away from scheme?
14:19:16 <rockfx01> I know I've seen ideas passed back and forth on the ML but don't know if any of those have any merit
14:28:51 <warlord> There has been some discussion, but nothing finalized.
14:29:03 <warlord> At this point I dont expect a move away from scheme in the short term
14:32:38 <rockfx01> ok
14:34:16 <rockfx01> another question... in src/report/* under the different directories, there are .scm files in the root directory, such as "standard-reports", and then there are what appear to be duplicates under standard-reports/gnucash/report/*
14:34:53 <rockfx01> what are all the duplicates for, and when I modify the reports do I need to change the reports under the gnucash folder as well as the 'root' folder?
14:35:47 <warlord> Sorry, I dont understand what you mean....
14:36:28 <warlord> in src/reports there are no .scm files
14:36:51 <warlord> in src/report/standard-reports there is only one subdir, "test"
14:37:15 <warlord> (anything else is generated at build-time and you can ignore)
14:45:25 <rockfx01> Ah, ok so it is just added by the build then
14:46:28 <rockfx01> and sorry, I meant under the subdirectories such as src/reports/standard-reports is where the .scm files are
14:47:35 <warlord> yes, all the scheme files are in e.g. src/reports/standard-reports. Any directories under that are generated by the build system for (historically) the ability to run from the build tree. However the scripts to allow running from the build-tree probably haven't kept up to date.
14:47:40 <warlord> (gnucash-build-env)
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15:50:23 <rockfx01> webkit should support html5, right?
15:51:38 <rockfx01> I'm just thinking that if I'm going to go ahead and tear apart the report system and rebuild it into something better, it might be worthwhile to start writing everything in HTML5 so it _should_ still be relevant in another 5 or 10 years.
15:56:54 <warlord> I dont know. I do not believe it does, yet
15:57:22 <warlord> But it does support Javascript.
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16:02:10 <rockfx01> it looks like it just depends on the version:
16:02:10 <rockfx01> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%28HTML5%29
16:07:37 <rockfx01> I'll build gnucash with the html5 DOCTYPE and see what happens :)
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16:19:41 <warlord> For the versions we support in 2.4 I would not depend on HTML5 support.
16:38:28 <rockfx01> I'm thinking ahead for 2.6, not 2.4
16:38:57 <rockfx01> also for 2.4 it should work anyways since the main change is just the DOCTYPE and then ensuring the pages are actually standards compliant
16:39:37 <rockfx01> unless we were to start using new HTML5 features like the canvas element, everything should still work okay
16:41:59 <warlord> Ah, so long as you don't use any HTML5-only features, then yea, should be fine
16:43:08 <rockfx01> since as you said 2.4 must support gtkhtml, i don't see any real value in making significant improvements for 2.4 since those would be 'feature enhancements' anyways which I presume would not be backported
16:44:52 <warlord> Probably..
16:45:51 <rockfx01> i'm not sure how you guys do your releases but I got the impression that once major releases hit, they for the most part only receive bug fixes
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16:57:58 <rockfx01> So, let's suppose I were to do this in two steps - first make the reports XHTML 1.0 or 1.1 compliant, then later revamp the report system for CSS and HTML5, would there be interest in including the XHTML patches in 2.4?
16:59:09 <rockfx01> because I just ran some of the reports through the validator and the simplest reports worked OK (such as the Barcharts and Piecharts) but more complex reports had a ton of errors which realistically are going to require a ton of work to fix
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17:00:12 <rockfx01> so I think trying to make them HTML5 compliant will have to be a longer term goal but XHTML 1.0 I have nearly perfected for the majority of the reports I have tested
17:03:35 <warlord> I think doing it in two steps is a great idea.
17:10:15 <rockfx01> Ok, I will do that. I am going to open up a bug report for it to post updates and patches for the initial XHTML implementation
17:12:51 <rockfx01> Then for part 2 (assuming I manage to actually implement it), I will rip apart the existing report system, modify it to expose the CSS and make it easier to style, and design it with html5 compliancy in mind.
17:15:35 <rockfx01> going back to gtkhtml support in 2.4, how important is this? I mean, is gnucash built by default for webkit or gtkhtml? Because if I use XHTML 1.1 DTD then a lot of attributes will probably need to be moved to CSS
17:16:02 <rockfx01> If i use 1.0 Transitional it is much more lenient
17:16:29 <rockfx01> I have to go but I"ll see your answer when i get back. Cheers!
17:18:59 <warlord> I'm afraid I dont know offhand
17:19:10 <warlord> It's important to keep gtkhtml in 2.4
17:19:20 <warlord> So all 2.4 reports have to work with gtkthml
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