2011-05-31 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:04:08 <paramind> hi
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09:52:11 <warlord> Hey linas
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10:07:26 <linas> sorry for the prolonged outage
10:07:55 <linas> all should be well, now
10:13:58 <warlord> @op linas
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10:14:07 <warlord> Was it network or hardware?
10:14:11 <warlord> (i'm just curious)
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10:17:59 <dave> morning new user new caller
10:18:46 <dave> is there a recommended payroll module for gnucash?
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10:19:47 <warlord> dave: nope, gnucash does not have a payroll function.
10:19:54 <warlord> You can use it to record payroll, but it wont compute it.
10:20:38 <dave> yes i found that out... but as a community is there a good payroll app that works with gnucash or do I just have to keep using peachtree
10:21:17 <warlord> I dont understand your question.
10:21:34 <warlord> You can most certainly use gnucash to account for your payroll.. You just have to make the computations elsewhere.
10:21:59 <dave> can anyone use recommend a good payroll computation program?
10:22:00 <warlord> For example, ADP will happily do that for you.. Then you just enter the numbers into gnucash.
10:22:27 <dave> yes but ADP is rather expensive
10:22:46 <warlord> I've not found one; I just outsourced the functionality to ADP.. The problem is that there are so many different locale-specific rules.. I doubt you'll find an open source app that does it.
10:24:07 <dave> yeah...that seems to be the major sticking point to switching from peachtree...
10:24:07 <warlord> they are expensive, but you are paying them to take liability for filing mistakes.
10:24:23 <linas> warlord, it was a kernel crash compounded by user error :-(
10:24:40 <warlord> linas: OOPS! Well, glad it's back up. Hope you had a good holiday!
10:26:14 <dave> thank you for the info warlord. one last question, will gnucash every have a payroll module?
10:26:45 <warlord> Are you offering to implement it?
10:26:59 <dave> ahhh i c
10:27:05 <warlord> (probably not anytime soon, due to the aforementioned locale issues)
10:27:11 <dave> i wish i could but my experience with perl is very limited
10:27:16 <warlord> Payroll is actually a VERY hard problem.
10:27:29 <warlord> how about C?
10:27:34 <warlord> (no perl necessary)
10:27:44 <dave> yes i know C and Java but I suck as a programmer
10:27:49 <warlord> Ah
10:28:11 <dave> too much ADD going on....did you see idol last night....
10:28:28 <dave> that was a joke
10:28:54 <dave> actually i have been trying to learn catalyst
10:29:00 <warlord> Nope, I dont watch Idol
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16:29:28 <scott> hello gurus of gnucash! I have a small problem I hoe you can help me with!
16:29:43 <scott> *hoe=hope
16:31:02 <scott> I have one invoice (# 1279) that appears twice in my Receivable report. It has two different $ amounts. Have you ever seen anything like this?
16:32:18 <warlord> Which "receivable report"?
16:32:54 <scott> under the Menu > Reports > Business > Receivable Aging
16:33:33 <warlord> Ah, thank you. "Receivable Aging report" How do yo uknow that the invoice appears twice?
16:34:20 <scott> I apoligise, it is the customer report! If I click the total $ amount on the RA report it opens a costomer reports, and there is is listed twice
16:34:55 <warlord> Aha. Okay... Now, are you sure you don't have two invoices with the same invoice #?
16:35:53 <scott> yes sir, If I click each invoice as listed on the customer report, I get the exact same invoice. I do not number my invoices manually. I allow the system to generate the invoice numbers.
16:37:42 <warlord> Can you show a screen shot of the report?
16:37:53 <scott> yes, pdf? jpg?
16:38:13 <warlord> any of the above. imagebin is your friend.
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16:40:14 <Hydroxide> Hi. I asked this several days ago, but forgot about scheduled downtime and lost my connection before anyone responded. So, with apologies for the repeat if you saw my previous query:
16:40:50 <Hydroxide> I have a bank account that works nicely with Gnucash's online banking support, EXCEPT that I have to set it up each time on the Gnucash end. the Aqbanking end stays finished.
16:40:55 <scott> http://imagebin.org/156161
16:40:59 <Hydroxide> Each session, that is, it needs to be re-linked.
16:41:52 <Hydroxide> between gnucash and aqbanking. And usually twice, because the aqbanking wizard set it up to have the routing number and account number separate like the bank actually uses, but somewhere in one of the online banking actions (maybe not all of them) gnucash decides that it'd prefer to treat the combination of both numbers as a single account number and asks me again which gnucash account to use
16:42:14 <Hydroxide> how can I get it to stay linked on a permanent basis? I'm not saving my banking password, but I hope that's not necessary for this.
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16:43:06 <warlord> scott: take a look in your A/R Account and see if there are any "Automatic Balance Forward" transactions?
16:43:22 <warlord> ... also look at that INvoice transaction in the A/R account.
16:43:57 <warlord> Hydroxide: It sounds like the account info is in the file in two places and every time you re-choose the account it overwrites the previous setting.
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16:44:23 <Hydroxide> warlord: I've taken a look at the gnucash file in vim by using zcat, and I don't see the account numbers there anywhere.
16:45:02 <warlord> Hydroxide: the OFX binding is in the Account KVP-Frame
16:45:04 <warlord> (slots)
16:45:16 <Hydroxide> warlord: but, it's not only that I have to keep swapping settings. it's that every time I start gnucash the relevant account doesn't seem to have any online banking linkage at all, to the point where the choices are blanked out in the Actions menu.
16:46:01 <warlord> Hydroxide: maybe it's not being saved into your ~/.{aq,}banking configs?
16:46:09 <warlord> Are you using XML or SQL?
16:46:11 <Hydroxide> it's definitely saved in aqbanking
16:46:17 <Hydroxide> I'm using xml, currently, with plans to switch to sql later
16:46:34 <Hydroxide> I mean, I don't have to keep re-adding it to aqbanking via the wizard
16:46:44 <Hydroxide> I just have to keep reinforming gnucash which account to link it to
16:46:54 <Hydroxide> the OFX side of stuff remains intact
16:46:57 <scott> Warlord, this invoice does AR twice, may i simply delete the one with the incorrect $ amount?
16:47:15 <scott> ...does appear in AR twice...
16:47:40 <warlord> scott: you cannot delete it that way, but that begs the question of why it's in AR twice? Perhaps you used AR in a line-item?
16:48:04 <scott> warlord, let me look
16:49:14 <scott> warlord: do you mean for the income account?
16:49:15 <warlord> Hydroxide: that's because there are two accounts, e.g. 'Act' and 'Acct', that are similar but different. A GnuCash Account can only hold a single OFX mapping. So every time you map the account it overwrites it. The beginning wants Act, then later Acct, and of course it never finds it
16:49:19 <warlord> scott: yes
16:49:32 <scott> warlord: nope...
16:50:16 <Hydroxide> warlord: "find ~/.gnucash ~/.gnome* ~/.gconf* ~/.aqbanking $MY_GNUCASH_FILE -type f -o -type l -exec zgrep -i kvp {} +" returns no results
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16:50:30 <Hydroxide> so I'm not sure what you mean by KVP-Frame
16:50:31 <warlord> Can you show me the AR account? Maybe there was a pre-payment so it's split the Invoice to balance it out?
16:50:48 <warlord> Hydroxide: it's a data structure inside your data file.
16:51:17 <Hydroxide> right, I was assuming that, but if the letters k v p don't appear adjacent to each other in any capitalization, with or without gzip, in my .gnucash file...
16:51:32 <Hydroxide> I do notice that there's no ability to save my gnucash file right after I run the online banking setup
16:51:35 <warlord> Hydroxide: like I said, "slots"
16:51:38 <Hydroxide> I mean, it considers it clean
16:51:50 <warlord> Right, resetting slots does not dirty the book. Known bug.
16:52:20 <Hydroxide> ok. I apologize for not knowing what "slots" means in this case. would it get saved properly if I did the linkage, made a trivial unrelated change, and then saved?
16:52:43 <scott> warlord: http://imagebin.org/156163
16:52:43 <Hydroxide> I usually save pretty quickly after making changes, understandably, so that doesn't happen by chance much
16:52:54 <Hydroxide> but it's a reasonable workaround
16:53:16 <warlord> Hydroxide: like I said, it's probably getting overwritten..
16:53:55 <warlord> Think of it like a cupholder -- it can only hold one cup. But in this case you have TWO cups. It only remebers the last cup you put into the holder.
16:54:21 <warlord> scott: thanks. Click on the "Split" button and send it again?
16:54:33 <Hydroxide> warlord: but the problem isn't just that I have to juggle two cups. the problem is that every time gnucash starts NEITHER cup is in the holder.
16:54:47 <warlord> (it doesn't matter which one you have highlighted -- I bet they both show up in the expanded view)
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16:55:56 <warlord> Hydroxide: I disbelieve that. The problem is that it's always looking for the Red cup first, then the Blue cup... And in the end the Blue cup is in the holder. The next time it looks for the Red cup, doesn't find it so it prompts.. Then it wants to find the blue cup, doesn't find it, prompts.. Lather Rinse Repeat.
16:56:48 <scott> warlord: http://imagebin.org/156164
16:57:22 <scott> warlord: the expanded view is different for the 2 versions of the invoice
16:57:43 <Hydroxide> warlord: the reason I believe that is simply that once I go through the Blue cup's linking rigamarole in a given session of gnucash, the Online Banking Action menu items are enabled, and that's still true after it switches over to prompting me for the Red cup info. So when it's looking for the Blue cup or the Red cup those menu items are enabled. But every time my gnucash session starts they're disabled
16:57:48 <warlord> scott: it is?!
16:58:17 <scott> warlord: i will expand the second "version" and post it
16:58:17 <warlord> Hydroxide: what version of gnucash is this?
16:58:19 <Hydroxide> I'm willing to believe that even that is misleading, and remove my info from aqbanking and re-add it, though I'm not sure how to get any existing linkages out of gnucash
16:58:24 <Hydroxide> warlord: current. 2.4.5, built by debian
16:59:03 <Hydroxide> oh, you just released a new version since I last tried it
16:59:05 <warlord> Hydroxide: Okay, you've reached the limit of my knowledge of that area -- I recommend you email gnucahs-user
16:59:33 <scott> warlord: http://imagebin.org/156165
16:59:59 <Hydroxide> warlord: I will do that, thanks. before I do, are you at least able to tell me how to remove any trace of the online banking linkage from the .gnucash file? I can certainly remove my ~/.aqbanking, plus whatever steps you tell me for the .gnucash, then try recreating it again in case my prior attempts messed something up somehow
17:00:10 <Hydroxide> that's worth one attempt before emailing gnucash-user
17:00:11 <scott> warlord: and if i unpost either invoice, it actually unposts both of them :-(
17:00:25 <warlord> scott: that looks like two invoices with the same ID#. Business -> Customer -> Find Invoice [InvoiceID] 1279
17:01:12 <scott> warlord: only one :-(
17:02:40 <scott> warlord: http://imagebin.org/156166
17:04:55 <warlord> weird!!!!!
17:08:11 <scott> yes, very weird
17:13:00 <scott> perhaps i should convert from XML to mySql and hack the tables until I "kill" the offending data ?
17:13:05 <warlord> scott: did you, by chance, use the Log Replay>?
17:13:27 <scott> no sir, I don't think I even know how
17:13:34 <warlord> File -> Import -> ...
17:14:12 <warlord> That's really really weird! It looks like there are two distinct invoices with the same ID but with different amounts.
17:14:25 <scott> here is more information...
17:14:33 <Hydroxide> warlord: making progress ... I hope to have more to report in a few moments.
17:14:55 <scott> the one with the "wrong" $ amount has a subset of the line items that are on the one with the correct $ amount
17:15:29 <scott> in other words, remove a few line items from the correct one and you get the EXACT $ amount of the "bad" one
17:15:54 <scott> (i have been struggling with this a while now)
17:16:09 <warlord> How are you seeing the line items?
17:16:26 <scott> i can open the invoice and see the line items
17:16:46 <warlord> You can open both invoices?
17:17:22 <warlord> I just dont see how you could get into this state at all.
17:18:25 <scott> if i try to open either invoice I get the line items for the one with the larger $ amount. If I use a calculator and subtract a few line items I the $ amount of the invoice with the lower $ amount
17:18:59 <scott> i think I might know how i got it in this mess
17:19:55 <warlord> Oh?
17:20:30 <scott> i might have had two copies of this invoice open at once, changed one, and then posted them both back to AR
17:21:44 <warlord> HMMMMMmmmmmm.........
17:22:06 <Hydroxide> warlord: it looks like we were both at least partially wrong. somehow it had gotten the routing and account numbers saved with two rather than one spaces between them, but there was only one occurrence of the online_id in the file. Removing the space didn't automatically make gnucash see the link upon next run, but it did seem to reduce the two metaphorical cups in our cupholder to just one, and then making+undoing a trivial change and saving the book ...
17:22:12 <Hydroxide> ... made the link permament
17:22:14 <Hydroxide> *permanent
17:22:14 <Hydroxide> thanks for your assistance.
17:22:24 <Hydroxide> it's working now.
17:30:01 <scott> I have backed-up my data, any chance i can correct this editing the XML files?
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17:35:05 <warlord> scott: ummm..... maybe? What I would do is unpost the invoice, save, quit, then remove the outstanding txn... and then repost
17:35:14 <warlord> Hydroxide: cool! glad its working now
17:35:42 <scott> I have already received a payment for the correct (higher) amount...
17:36:06 <scott> I will unpost, save, quit and let you know why it does
17:36:46 <scott> what do you means when you say "then remove the outstanding transaction?"
17:37:06 <warlord> there are two transactions......
17:37:14 <warlord> unposting will remove one of them
17:37:25 <scott> ok
17:38:08 <warlord> you'll probably need to remove the other by hand.
17:38:17 <warlord> Can you please backup a copy of your data file before you do any of this?
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17:38:24 <scott> in process of restarting software
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17:38:31 <warlord> Also, once you're done, could you please file a bug report? This is a very very interesting issue!
17:38:53 <scott> sure
17:40:34 <scott> when i try to delete it from AR:
17:40:45 <scott> cannot modify or delete this transaction.
17:41:24 <scott> this transaction is marked read-only with the comment: 'Generated form an invoice. Try unposting the invoice.'
17:41:47 <warlord> Right...
17:42:08 <warlord> You would need to delete it by hand-editing the data file... because somehow you have two posted transactions tied to a single invoice.
17:43:40 <scott> ok, which file? :-)
17:43:56 <warlord> your data file
17:47:27 <scott> when i open the file that i think is my data file is it non-printable characters
17:47:54 <warlord> scott: gunzip it
17:48:51 <warlord> (or Edit -> Preferences and turn off compression)
17:49:29 <scott> thats probably a better idea, i am on windows pc
17:52:24 <scott> this is going to be fun
17:52:26 <scott> :-)
17:52:32 <warlord> I'm sure it will....
17:53:03 <warlord> I'm sorry, but if GnuCash let you do what you say.... a) it's weird because you shouldn't be able to have the same invoice open in multipe windows, but b) ... weird!!!!!
17:53:52 <warlord> I'd love to see the XML for the transaction in question, and see what invoice is pointed to
17:54:45 <scott> am i looking for a <gnc:transaction ... line?
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17:59:31 <scott> VICTORY!!!
18:02:55 <scott> Mr. Warlord, thank you for your help!!! I am most grateful!
18:06:57 <scott> I would be happy to email you the line i removed if you like
18:07:51 <scott> the lineS
18:16:27 <warlord> scott: Um, sure.......
18:16:40 <warlord> I'd also like to see what invoice it referenced.
18:19:15 <warlord> anyways, I'm off for a bit
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22:32:14 <warlord> @op linas
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