2011-04-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:02:15 <fell> bug #427948 sounds good and you should refer bug # 408444. Good bug triage! :-)
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00:06:19 <chiron80> Although bug #427948 is requesting an even smaller SCU (1/1000000). Should I create a separate bug requesting the feature of making this user-customizable?
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00:08:59 <fell> 1 or 6 additional digits doesn't matter - it is not working as expected.
00:09:37 <fell> Yes, that would be an enhancement request.
00:11:32 <fell> In your example you mix fields of commodity with fields from account. that will not work.
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00:14:48 <chiron80> If I got the fields correct, could editing the XML file work to resolve this issue (at least for me, until the bug is fixed)?
00:17:20 <fell> you should update bug #427948 for your tests of 2.2.9 and 2.4.4 and genealize the subject, if possible.
00:22:22 <chiron80> I don't see a place to change the summary or the version tested. I'm guessing that if it is possible, I don't have the authority. I will add that to my comments though.
00:23:44 <fell> right.
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00:26:07 <chiron80> I'll create the enhancement request under the "User Interface General" category.
00:33:50 <chiron80> For comparison sake, I just created a new Stock account, which has a dialog for specifying the "Fraction Traded". It wouldn't be hard to modify that exact dialog to support modifying currencies as well.
01:02:59 <fell> The birds started singing - time for bed now. CU
01:03:13 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
01:05:06 <chiron80> @Fell: Thanks for your help so far. I'm still editing the bugs, but I think I found a way to fix the problem (at least temporarily) myself. I simply added the line " <cmdty:fraction>1000</cmdty:fraction>" to my currency definition in my XML file.
01:05:06 <gncbot> chiron80: Error: "Fell:" is not a valid command.
01:05:43 <chiron80> Fell: Thanks for your help. I'm still editing the bugs, but I think I found a way to fix the problem (at least temporarily) myself. I simply added the line " <cmdty:fraction>1000</cmdty:fraction>" to my currency definition in my XML file.
01:05:54 <chiron80> It now reads:
01:06:06 <chiron80> <gnc:commodity version="2.0.0">
01:06:08 <chiron80> <cmdty:space>ISO4217</cmdty:space>
01:06:10 <chiron80> <cmdty:id>USD</cmdty:id>
01:06:11 <chiron80> <cmdty:get_quotes/>
01:06:12 <chiron80> <cmdty:quote_source>currency</cmdty:quote_source>
01:06:14 <chiron80> <cmdty:quote_tz/>
01:06:16 <chiron80> <cmdty:fraction>1000</cmdty:fraction>
01:06:17 <chiron80> </gnc:commodity>
01:06:29 <chiron80> When I opened GnuCash it recognized the change and is working as I expected now.
01:07:06 <chiron80> Can you think of any reason this will backfire on me?
01:10:00 *** fell_afk is now known as fell
01:10:36 <chiron80> Never mind... it worked only briefly, then reverted itself.
01:11:21 <fell> It is self repairing ;-)
01:11:59 <chiron80> great, any way to stop that? What does it use as a data source?
01:12:30 <max> anyone who is using Gnucash 2.2.9
01:12:38 <max> beware of rounding errors...
01:13:01 <max> I built the 2.4.4 and it fixed the rounding issues I was having...
01:14:41 <fell> chiron it is hidden deep in the sourc code.
01:14:55 <chiron80> that's what I was afraid of.
01:15:19 <fell> max: fine.
01:15:45 <chiron80> Oh well, seems like manually editing the XML file is a dangerous path, as now it seems to be breaking the account totals on the "Accounts" tab.
01:16:20 <max> fell: thanks for you suggestions
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01:18:56 <chiron80> Better yet, now it is in a state where it is showing "$17.680", but if you look the XML directly it is actually storing "$17.675"
01:20:48 <fell> Before you touch data files, you should eventually read http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Account_Hierarchy_Template
01:21:45 <fell> there are some tips about xmllint ...
01:22:18 <fell> So it is more a display issue?
01:23:35 <fell> Ok, I will read the log later.
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01:24:03 <chiron80> Seems like the display issue is a side-effect of having more precision than GnuCash thinks is possible.
01:25:32 <chiron80> in the "Credit" or "Debit" columns it is reporting the rounded value, but the "Balance" column reflects the actual value.
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01:59:45 <chiron80> Alright, new bug filed as bug 647340, and comments made to the other two bugs mentioned. Thanks again for your help fell.
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03:28:08 <arbortender> Hi! I'm a new user. Is there a way to search all the registers by $ amount to find a transaction? I'm finding the search function weird to use (finds nothing frequently, though alternate approach...scrolling tediously....finds the transaction as searched for). Maybe I am using that wrong.
03:30:45 <hypatia> arbortender: you should be able to search by amount - it's called "value" though
03:33:26 <arbortender> Aha! Why did I think that was pointed @ something else, I wonder? Thank you.
03:34:23 <hypatia> you're welcome, arbortender :)
03:38:03 <arbortender> Another thing: concerning the interaction between Gnucash (on my laptop computer) & GnuCash Portable (soon to be installed on htc touchpro2 with windows 6.5) . Do the data files sync somehow & if so, where can I read more about that?
03:55:09 <hypatia> arbortender: they don't sync, you have to manage sync manually
03:55:36 <hypatia> arbortender: if you're going to use portable, i'd probably put the file on your thumbdrive and read that using the desktop version too
03:55:46 <hypatia> just make sure you have non-thumbdrive backups :)
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04:01:42 <arbortender> Put the laptop's data file on the thumbdrive first & open it using the portable app, then also use the thumbdrive data file when using the laptop? Do I get that correctly?
04:02:05 <hypatia> arbortender: you have to only have one version of the file
04:02:38 <hypatia> arbortender: there is no syncing within gnucash, so you have to keep in mind where you store it - no different than a text file or whatever
04:14:37 <arbortender> ok cool. thanks again. Cheers!
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04:56:09 <bluenemo> hi guys. i'm starting a small business for linux administration in germany and will use gnucash for my accounting stuff :) so far i have absolutely no idea about financial stuff, so i'll be hanging out here from now on, listening and propably asking (i hope not to nooby) questions :)
05:01:01 <hypatia> hey bluenemo - i found it really helpful to have a look at the "a simple checkbook" set of accounts in the new file druid - i'd start there
05:01:04 <hypatia> :)
05:01:10 <hypatia> also congrats on the new business!
05:02:53 <bluenemo> thank you hypatia, i'm reading the german manual at the moment to get started. thing for me is that i dont exactly know what i want or need yet - never had any financial stuff in school.. however i'm happy that gnu is providing a nice tool for this and i only use open source software. i'm sure i'll be happy with it :)
05:03:18 <hypatia> bluenemo: also http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash_Quick_Start_Guide_For_Business_Users and http://linas.org/mirrors/www.aerospacesoftware.com/2003.06.21/GNU_Cash_for_Business_users_Howto_Guide.html may also be useful - the 2nd link is for an out of date version of the software but is very comprehensive
05:03:45 <hypatia> hmm scratch that 2nd link, that's not the one i was thinking of
05:03:53 <bluenemo> cool i'll bookmark those thank you very much!
05:04:04 <bluenemo> i'll do that thx
05:04:18 <hypatia> yeah the first one is good, not the second, heh
05:06:42 <bluenemo> cool already bookmarked it :) worked through the night and will read it tomorrow. need a good cup of coffee before starting with it :D (i am a little scared of that financial stuff.. in germany everything is sooo hard to understand..)
05:07:43 <hypatia> i think accounting is tricky everywhere :)
05:08:25 <bluenemo> but sth that would be gread, do you know the compiling flag for compiling it in german language? i have my whole system in english and also have a US keyboard (prefer that) but on this stuff i would make an exception as i understand my linux stuff better in english but as i said, you can hunt me down with financial stuff :) therefore it would be more easy for me if it would be in german and already be set to german defaults
05:09:28 <bluenemo> i found the wiki entry with setting LANG and LOCALE before starting it but i was wondering if i could just compile it into..
05:10:19 <bluenemo> btw gread means great :D didnt slept much lately ;)
05:13:13 <hypatia> hehe, no worries
05:13:22 <hypatia> i don'y know what the language compile thread would be
05:13:28 <hypatia> compile flag
05:14:26 <hypatia> speaking of which
05:14:32 <hypatia> it's way late here, i'm off to sleep
05:14:33 <hypatia> nite!
05:15:29 <bluenemo> :) have a good night
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09:41:31 <Meli> Hey just wondering if anyone can tell me if a loan from one company to another is considered an asset to the company who loaned it?
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09:54:57 <fell> @tell Meli Waiting only 5 minutes at a weekand is really short. If I loan you some money, I have an asset and you a liability.
09:54:57 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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10:33:42 <meg23> what is the best to handle clearing checks on gnucash?
10:33:53 <meg23> I basically want to balance my checkbook
10:34:50 <meg23> should I enter them as a liability and then subtract it from checking account when they clear
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10:54:42 <warlord> meg23: there are two things: One, mark the txn as cleared in the checking register (the R column). Two, when you get your monthly statement, reconcile the account.
10:57:36 <meg23> What I am really trying to do is make sure I have enough money in my checking account to cash all my checks...
10:58:48 <meg23> because I don't keep track of my checking account perse, I figure if I write my checks from the checking account .. I get a negative number
10:59:07 <meg23> then when the check clears, I debit money to that account to zero it out...
10:59:53 <meg23> is that a bad way of doing it?
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11:10:20 <meg23> whats does reconciling actually do
11:11:24 <warlord> Yes, that's really a bad way to do it.
11:11:45 <warlord> You should keep track of all debits and credits to the account, and never write a check that would overdraw the account.
11:11:54 <meg23> yeah...
11:12:00 <meg23> thats why I asked...
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11:15:22 <meg23> what does the reconciling actually do
11:16:40 <warlord> It makes sure you haven't missed a transaction.
11:16:48 <warlord> Or that you (or the bank) didn't make a mistake
11:17:17 <warlord> The bank sends you your monthly statement, and then you make sure that your records match the bank records by marking each transaction off..
11:17:58 <meg23> ohh I see...so where I am able to view the amount of uncashed checks I have written out...
11:18:34 <warlord> meg23: in your checking register you will see the "expected future balance" of the account, because it will include all checks (cashed or uncashed)
11:21:53 <meg23> so the c means cleared under the "R" column
11:31:10 <warlord> Yep.
11:31:19 <warlord> And after you go through the reconcile process it will change to 'y'
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16:00:27 <meg23> anyways, I am still having trouble figuring out how to handle balancing my checkbook in gnucash...
16:01:10 <meg23> bascially, the issue that I have is that I am not trying to keep track of daily expenses, say groceries...
16:01:34 <meg23> I am just trying to keep track of major expenses and my earnings...
16:01:45 <meg23> plus handling checks that I want to pay out....
16:02:34 <meg23> I usually just write the checks out of a cash account that collects all my earnings...
16:03:42 <meg23> basically all I want to be able to do is to write checks and know that I need to have x amount of cash in my checking account (outside of gnucash)
16:04:27 <meg23> so if I need some way of seeing that I have written out "$2500" worth of checks that have not been cashed yet...
16:04:54 <meg23> so that way, I make sure my checking account in real life has that money in it...
16:22:58 <lost_sou1> without adjusting your banance or tracking all of your expenses I don't see how you'll do that
16:23:05 <lost_sou1> balance*
16:23:46 <lost_sou1> if you spend $100 for groceries and don't deduct that from your account in gnucash in some way your totals will never match
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16:28:08 <lost_sou1> I suppose if you wanted to use two accounts (checking) you could basically use one as a slush fund where your petty expenses come from. Then have the account you pay the bills you wish to track come from the second account.
16:28:18 <lost_sou1> kind of round about way to do it.. but it should work
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16:39:04 <meg23> lost_soi1: warload told me to use the reconcile function
16:39:27 <meg23> it just doesn't make sense to me...
16:39:48 <meg23> I don't really care about small purchases unless it is tax deductable
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16:45:48 <lost_sou1> I don't see how reconcile would work but warlord-afk is far more fluent with gnucash than I am.
16:47:16 <lost_sou1> If you reconcile the checks for like your gas/electric/rent.. etc and do nothing as far as deducting monies paid for groceries and such to me I would think it would look like you have more money in your account than you actually do
16:47:58 <meg23> yeah, basically...
16:48:44 <lost_sou1> right.. thus mentioning a second account for the stuff you don't wish to track expenses of.. That way the account you do wish to track will have the correct balance and be able to be reconsiled
16:49:18 <meg23> you mean a seperate cash account?
16:49:32 <lost_sou1> that is really up to you
16:49:40 <lost_sou1> I dunno how you shop
16:50:53 <lost_sou1> if it were me, I would setup another checking account.. have a card associated with it. Put some money in it each week for your groceries, beauty supplies.. etc. Use your card when you shop
16:51:12 <meg23> my gnucash setup is really for tracking my earnings and my major expenses...
16:51:30 <lost_sou1> yea, that wouldn't need to change
16:51:52 <meg23> but if I have a seperate cash account, I have to transfer money in to it...
16:52:08 <lost_sou1> right, which GNUcash can already do
16:52:09 <meg23> it almost makes sense to record my checks as a liability
16:52:21 <meg23> I guess a check is really a liability
16:52:29 <meg23> is it not?
16:53:05 <lost_sou1> I wouldn't consider it a liability
16:57:34 <meg23> its money that I owe, and it is basically an IOU
16:58:28 <meg23> I am sure am horrfying some accountants on the channel
16:59:16 <lost_sou1> lol
17:00:42 <lost_sou1> To me it would be considered more of a contract.
17:01:46 <lost_sou1> contract from you to someone else stating that your paying them this amount of money. Also a contract to the bank stating not only that you are paying the person, but also that you have the funds in your account to do so.
17:04:11 <meg23> I could theoretically just debit the money for the check into a holding cash account and then when the check clears, I credit to an expense
17:04:39 <meg23> I do that with taxes because I dont know exactely how much I know until the bill comes...
17:05:31 <meg23> I just don't want to look like an idiot when I give my papers to the accountant
17:06:28 <lost_sou1> lol.. gotta bolt for a bit.. good luck with it
17:09:41 <meg23> thanks
17:47:23 <Silly> keeping track of checks like that seems like too much work and detail for very little gain
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17:49:43 <meg23> well, it would keep from over drawing...
17:49:56 <meg23> to me it seems like more work to keep track of small expenses
17:57:51 <Silly> When I write a check I just transfer directly from checking account to expenses and mark it off when I see it in the bank statement. That way my current account balance is what money I actually have not what the bank says I have because checks aren't in yet. OFC, I also always get a receipt and if I don't I make note of the amount and put in every little bitty expense (including things like I dropped a penny in the gutter) at the end
17:57:51 <Silly> of the day.
17:58:49 <Silly> One thing that makes that easier also is that I funnel as much of my expenses as I can through a credit card that gives rewards and always pay it off in full every month so I have zero charges
18:00:25 <Silly> I write about 1 check a month, and spend cash only on getting lunch.
18:00:36 <Silly> everything else is credit card!
18:01:28 <Silly> It's only like 5 minutes every day to do all that
18:02:24 <Silly> ofc, you have to do it every day, and if you wait a week or month etc. sucks to be you...
18:03:02 * Silly would not be able to handle updating his books once a month or even twice a month... it'd be way to painful... but every day? sure so problem takes no time...
18:45:58 <meg23> thats a good idea about using the credit card...
18:46:28 <meg23> when you say mark off the cleared check....how do you mean?
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18:56:55 <warlord> meg23: You MUST keep track of all your expenses.
18:57:13 <warlord> Even if you just do "ATM Withdrawal; Checking -> Expenses:Misc $400"
18:57:23 <warlord> You *must* keep track of every dollar you spend from your checking account.
18:57:46 <warlord> Accounting doesn't work if you just account for the big things. The small things add up.
18:59:14 <warlord> Basically, if it hits your bank account, you need to account for it. If it's just keeping track of how you spend your cash, well, you can certainly choose not to deal with that and just keep track of your cash withdrawals.
18:59:49 <warlord> The reconciliation is just a way to make sure you didn't miss anything, or to make sure the bank didn't make a mistake. For example, you deposit $1000 but the bank only credits you $100.
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19:01:53 <Silly> meg23, each transaction has a little field, cleared, reconsiled etc. I use click it until it says cleared and check that the cleared balance matches what my bank online thing says I currently have every once in a while...
19:02:25 <Silly> then I can easily see how much money I have in the checking account and how much money I will eventually have
19:02:44 * Silly probably isn't using that field correctly...
19:03:17 <warlord> Silly: that's close to correct. Then when you get your monthly statement click "reconcile" and it will turn the 'c' to 'y'.
19:03:35 <warlord> The other benefit of a reconciled transaction is that gnucash will attempt to prevent you from manipulating it.
19:03:36 <Silly> I check my online statements from everything few days and check then to c
19:03:41 <Silly> Ah
19:03:48 <Silly> then I should probably hit reconcile :D
19:04:16 * Silly decides to put in todays expenses and play with that
19:05:52 <Silly> OK, now I have this dialog up... I just hit finish? I've already checked that the cleared balance matches up (actually all transactions so far are cleared)
19:06:23 <warlord> Yep.
19:06:43 <warlord> Once everything is appropriately checked from the statement, your 'difference' should be 0 and then you hit 'finish'
19:07:42 <Silly> I told my bank to not send me statements and I just check the current statement online about once a week and check everything off
19:08:15 <Silly> ofc, when I did the reconcile right now it showed 2 years of transactions...
19:08:26 <warlord> Well, the bank will still have "monthly statements" online.
19:08:33 <Silly> yes
19:08:39 <Silly> never look at 'em >.>
19:10:24 <warlord> Well, you should
19:10:31 <Silly> Why?
19:10:56 <Silly> I essentially balance out my accounts once a week. When I do it's like, yea ok, I see everything is there already
19:13:07 <warlord> Good question.
19:13:42 <Silly> I already go over it once a week, why go over it again once a month when the amounts add up just by looking at it?
19:15:22 <Silly> I can check the activity on my accounts at any time I like, what I want to do is every few days check my activity and mark it off so I say OK that is confirmed.
19:16:18 <Silly> my credit cards and bank accounts will also list pending transactions and holds too, so I can even see "oh look, that transaction I started yesterday, the bank nows about it now but it hasn't officially gone through"
19:16:25 <Silly> knows
19:19:00 <Silly> Seems like what I should do is reconcile once a week rather than just clicking cleared
19:19:15 <warlord> In your case, I can see ...
19:19:40 <warlord> The only potential reason would be the change-warning of reconciled txns
19:19:53 <Silly> change-warning?
19:20:43 <Silly> is there a way to just say 'reconcile everything because I dont' want to go through and click on 10000 transactions...'
19:20:49 <warlord> Yeah, a warning if you try to change the txn
19:20:55 <Silly> Ah
19:21:05 <warlord> If they are already cleared then you don't need to click on them again.
19:21:36 <Silly> If a transaction has shown up in my statement I create a new transaction to fix something
19:21:38 <Silly> oh?
19:21:43 <warlord> In the reconcile window, however, you can just keep hitting 'space' and it will check the current transaction and move to the next one.
19:22:02 <Silly> but I have them cleared and when I bring up the window they all don't have a check under R
19:22:03 <Silly> ?
19:22:23 <warlord> possibly because the date is out of range?
19:22:56 <Silly> out of range? it only asks for one date?
19:28:54 * Silly wonders if he doesn't understand how this is supposed to work...
19:38:30 <warlord> Read the docs; it's explained pretty well.
19:39:15 <warlord> But yes, it could be out of range; if you reconcile to 1/1/2011 and have a transaction dated 1/15/2011, there's no way it could be included so it's considered "out of range"
19:41:26 <Silly> Ah
19:41:47 <Silly> does it do things different if it's a liability account?
19:42:00 * Silly should probably just read the docs...
19:43:20 <warlord> Nope.
19:43:35 <warlord> (except give you the option to add a payment transaction once you finish the reconciliation)
19:43:40 <Silly> it kept wanting me to make a transaction of the amount of the current balance when I hit done...
19:48:14 <warlord> Yes, the "payment" transaction to pay off the balance.
19:49:40 <Silly> Ah
19:50:02 <Silly> sounds like for liabilities I should 'reconcile' when I pay them
19:54:22 <warlord> yep, when you get the bill from them!
21:06:17 <Silly> I just get an email saying that my online statement is ready and I go login and click pay and click pay current balance and write in a new transaction of however much that is
21:06:44 <warlord> well, perhaps you should actually *look* at the statement before you pay it?
21:07:07 <Silly> well... yea, I'll go through it and check everything off
21:07:25 <Silly> so my 'pay current balance' equals the 'cleared balance'
21:08:12 <warlord> it should equal the 'reconciled' balance
21:08:29 <Silly> that was because I was never reconciling it :P
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22:00:06 <meg23> so now that I have been convinced to record everything in gnucash...
22:00:26 <meg23> and considering we are 4 months into the year....
22:00:41 <meg23> whats the best way to deal with the starting balances...
22:04:35 <warlord> meg23: well, you could start today..
22:04:50 <warlord> Just make sure all your balances are correct and continue on.
22:06:16 <meg23> how do I enter the starting balances...
22:06:23 <meg23> do I just act like it is a deposit?
22:09:10 <warlord> yep. opening balances are just a regular transaction between your account and "Equity:Opening Balances"
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