2011-04-01 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:36:38 <hypatia> woot, first patch appears complete
00:37:23 <hypatia> fix for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602052
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01:41:19 <hypatia> warlord-afk: for when you wake up, i submitted a patch: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602052
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08:18:36 <tim> My temporary bookkeeping employer does not use accumulated depreciation. Instead, he reduces the asset value directly. I asked him about this, and he clarified that indeed, he does not use accumulated depreciation. I tried not to appear judgemental, but I am screaming inside. Should I just let it go?
08:25:08 <kimmo> is there a specific reason you need that?
08:27:04 <blathijs> Reducing the asset value sounds like a reasonable approach to me?
08:27:15 <kimmo> most entrepreneurs I know prefer just straight line depreciation, not carrying the accumulation anywhere
08:27:35 <kimmo> the guy just said they reduce the asset value
08:28:11 <kimmo> I'm assuming the bookkeeper does use the expenses.depreciation contra account to balance the txn
08:29:45 <tim> He debits depreciation and credits the asset (rather than crediting accumulated depreciation).
08:30:30 <kimmo> sounds like a perfectly valid move
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08:36:39 <tim> When you compare two years on a balance sheet, the asset should have the same value, to show that it hasn't been added to, or partly disposed of.
08:37:10 <tim> There is no contra-account.
08:38:55 <kimmo> IMO, the balance sheet should reflect the true value of the asset
08:39:29 <kimmo> (unless there's a business reason to do otherwise)
08:40:38 <kimmo> and by a contra account I mean the balancing account, i.e. the accumulated depreciation is the contra account of depreciation in your example transaction
08:42:56 <tim> He uses the depreciation expense account, but no accumulated depreciation contra-account.
08:46:19 <kimmo> then the asset account is the contra account
08:48:54 <kimmo> what he's doing is perfectly ok (at least in finland and all the places whose tax code I am familiar with), and is usually the most efficient way
08:49:57 <kimmo> your server, valuet at 10k 5 years ago is now worth 1k, not 10k asset-9k accumulated depreciation
08:51:59 <tim> No hei! Olen amerikkalainen joka asuu Suomessa.
08:53:58 <tim> Mä asuin tällä noin kaksi vuotta. Kieli on hyvin vaikeaa!
08:55:21 <kimmo> kieli on helppoa :)
08:56:12 <kimmo> anyway, in finland, there is absolutely no point in accumulating depreciation
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08:57:15 <tim> Oli vaikea löytää oikea sana joka tarkoitaa "accumulated depreciation", kun kysyin työnantajalta.
08:57:32 <kimmo> kertynyt poistoero
08:59:51 <kimmo> suomessa ei oikeastaan edes ole ihan oikeaa accumulated depreciationia, koska verotuksellisista syist siin ei ole jrke, ja suorat poistot ovat helpompia
08:59:59 <tim> kertynyt poisto ei ole missään en-fi-en sanakirjassa.
09:00:17 <kimmo> ei, koska kukaan ei kyt sit tll
09:01:27 <kimmo> ainoa lhelt liippaava on tuo kertynyt poistoero, mutta sitkin vltelln koska silloin veroilmoitus ja kirjanpito ei ole in synch
09:04:14 <tim> Hmm. Musta kertynyt poistoero laittaa taseetta hienommaksi, koska kahden vuoden aineelisten hyödykkeiden määrät ovat sama, vierekkain.
09:04:58 <kimmo> paitsi ett sen hydykkeen jlleenmyyntiarvo on vuoden pst eri kuin nyt
09:04:59 <tim> I mean, the amounts of fixed assets of two different years are the same next to each other.
09:05:52 <kimmo> the asset values recorded in the balance sheet should in here reflect the actual worth of the said asset
09:06:46 <tim> Kyllä. Jos toinen vuoden määrä on eri kuin toinen, tiedän heti että yritys myysi vanhan vai osti uuden.
09:06:52 <kimmo> most businesses use the direct depreciation schemes outlined in elinkeinoverolaki and use the max depreciation allowed
09:07:40 <kimmo> tilinptksess, taseen liitetiedoissa ky ilmi kuhunkin taseen ern kohdistunut poisto ja lisys
09:09:37 <tim> then you have to switch from using historical value accounting to the comprehensive income method.
09:10:44 <tim> if you want to show the fair market value of the asset on the balance sheet.
09:11:21 <tim> Mun pitää mennä pois. Nyt on viikonloppuna!
09:11:50 <kimmo> enjoy :)
09:12:03 <tim> nähdään!
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09:30:37 <warlord> thanks hypatia
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09:39:15 <shmoo> hi, i am using gnucash with postgres as the back end...does anyone know which table stores the amount of each record in the transactions table?
09:39:15 <gncbot> shmoo: Sent 39 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, and 59 minutes ago: <fell> the correct answer depends on your OS, but probably you should use a more recent version of GnuCash.
09:43:43 <daum> hm this is awkward, i submitted a bug about the invoice and dates being incorrect, and now can't find it in bugzilla and it also claims my account doesn't exist...did the bugzilla get reset or somethign
09:54:57 <warlord> Damn, even with VERP turned on I'm still getting mailman bounces from the monthly p/w reminders! *ponders*
09:56:09 <warlord> shmoo: amounts should be in the Split table, which bind an account, amount, and value to a transaction. Each balanced transaction has at least two splits.
09:56:28 <warlord> daum: Maybe -- BZ was down for a few days last weekend.
09:56:56 <daum> warlord, ah
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09:57:28 <ZorePh> Hello :)
09:57:45 <ZorePh> I was looking at the devel list
09:58:00 <ZorePh> and I saw this idea about scraping data from newspaper
09:58:09 <ZorePh> I have a few questions regarding it.
09:59:55 <warlord> ZorePh: you're probably best off asking on the -devel list about it.
10:00:19 <ZorePh> oh. ok
10:03:47 <warlord> Unless you have specific questions about gnucash, in which case, sure, fire away. ;)
10:11:51 <shmoo> warload: thank you. I found it. I didn't know the amounts were stored as integers
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10:16:36 <warlord> shmoo: they are stored as a 'gnc numeric' which is a rational number.
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10:22:27 <shmoo> warload: thank you
10:24:22 <warlord> you're welcome
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12:04:05 <tomh873r2> hi, I have gnucash 2.4.4 on fedora and I don't see any option to open from Mysql, am i missing some required package or something else?
12:04:28 <tomh873r2> i have installed the dbi package
12:05:44 <warlord> tomh873r2: you have the mysql dbd driver installed?
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13:24:07 <hypatia> warlord: is it worth sending my patch for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602052 to the list as well?
13:24:18 <hypatia> fwiw, i'm not doing this for gsoc, i'm a mentor on another project :)
13:24:43 <warlord> hypatia: You could send a message to -devel refering to the patch in the bug. No need to resend the patch.
13:25:01 <hypatia> ok, will do :)
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13:40:04 <warlord> hypatia: I can assure you that David is not working on it.
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13:42:07 <hypatia> warlord: ok :)
13:42:49 <warlord> David has been out of the loop for a long long time.
13:42:59 <warlord> (I actually miss him; he's a good guy)
13:45:01 <hypatia> aw, sorry to hear that
13:45:23 <hypatia> i'm feeling highly motivated to do a bunch of work on the search UI
13:45:39 <warlord> Go for it.
13:45:43 <warlord> I dont mind :)
13:47:45 <hypatia> i mostly want to be able to set a default search
13:47:47 <hypatia> >:)
13:52:28 <warlord> I know.
13:52:50 <warlord> While you're at it, maybe think about how to "save" the search criteria so that you could "go back" to the search page and manipulate the set.
13:53:02 <warlord> (note that that might be MUCH harder)
13:57:33 <hypatia> i can see that using the same kinda code as being able to set a default search type
13:57:42 <hypatia> oh, never mind
13:57:51 <hypatia> you're thinking of something different
13:58:09 <hypatia> but yeah, i'd find that super useful too
13:58:43 <hypatia> actually the super hackish way to do it would be to allow the user to just have the same search show up on hitting ctrl-f again
13:58:53 <hypatia> so you'd have a new tab, but starting from the same search
13:59:06 <hypatia> allowing you to add one more criteria, etc
14:03:58 <hypatia> argh, the reporter of that bug is correct that it should be "Case Sensitive" and be un-toggled by default :/
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14:41:27 <warlord> As opposed to 'case-insensitive' and be toggled? ;)_
14:42:22 <hypatia> i don't think that part really matters :)
14:42:29 <hypatia> but it should definitely not be a question, haha
14:46:13 <warlord> heh
14:48:13 <hypatia> also, wow, gnome bz is slow :(
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20:45:08 <Zombie> I have a question, my Credit union has a "Download to Money" feature, can I use this to setup OFX Support under Gnucash?
20:49:26 <warlord> possibly
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21:23:38 <Zombie> Has it worked for other institutions?
21:33:02 <warlord> yes
21:33:06 <warlord> see the wiki.
21:39:38 <Zombie> can I have a Link to the exact article?
21:44:06 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2
21:44:27 <warlord> taken from http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ
21:53:30 <Zombie> gnucash doesn't have ofx.py
21:55:19 <warlord> correct, that's not a gnucash thing. we have AqBanking Direct Connect
21:56:46 <Zombie> Here is the thing.
21:57:07 <Zombie> I don't trust myself to import these OFX Settings myself.
21:57:31 <Zombie> Can GnuCash 2.4 parse the OFX file and import them for me?
21:57:37 <Zombie> (I know 2.2 can't.)
21:57:59 <warlord> If you download the OFX file then yes. And yes, 2.2 can too...
22:00:37 <Zombie> I did.
22:00:46 <Zombie> (I have 2.2.9.)
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22:02:48 <warlord> Did you compile it with ofx support?
22:03:41 <Zombie> Yes,
22:03:51 <Zombie> LibOFX INFO: Created OfxDummyContainer to hold unsupported aggregate SIGNONMSGSRSV1
22:03:51 <Zombie> (Above message occured on Line 2, Column 1)
22:03:51 <Zombie> LibOFX INFO: Created OfxDummyContainer to hold unsupported aggregate SONRS
22:03:51 <Zombie> (Above message occured on Line 3, Column 1)
22:03:51 <Zombie> LibOFX INFO: Created OfxDummyContainer to hold unsupported aggregate FI
22:03:52 <Zombie> (Above message occured on Line 11, Column 1)
22:03:56 <Zombie> LibOFX INFO: Created OfxDummyContainer to hold unsupported aggregate BANKMSGSRSV1
22:04:00 <Zombie> (Above message occured on Line 17, Column 1)
22:04:02 <Zombie> LibOFX INFO: Created OfxDummyContainer to hold unsupported aggregate STMTTRNRS
22:04:04 <Zombie> (Above message occured on Line 18, Column 1)
22:04:06 <Zombie> I get errors like that
22:05:24 <warlord> Ah, hmm. I'm afraid you've reached the limit of my knowledge. It looks like your OFX has content libofx doesn't support.
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