2011-03-21 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:00:33 <cinix> I want to track some of my old student loans, and the interest I pay on them. My question is what is the best way to open the accounts? Do I balance the liabilities with the opening balance equities account? I don't ever look at equity in my personal accounts, does it have much meaning? Once my loans are paid off, how would I adjust the big negative equity that's left over.
09:00:33 <gncbot> cinix: Sent 1 day, 8 hours, and 48 minutes ago: <Joc> you check http://www.myinvestmentblog.com/tracking-student-loan-gnucash for your student loan
09:07:37 <cinix> Yes I have read that, it was well done. I understand how to track a liability when I can follow the money. But in my case the money is long spent, and I just owe. My books only started on the new year. I can't balance my liabilities with cash in the bank, I believe using equity is the best way to go. But what does that equity represent, what does it mean? How much I owed at one time in the past?
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09:32:56 <kimmo> @tell cinix Equity is the right choice. Equity is your 'net worth', and should be the counter-account for all opening balance transactions. If you're in debt, but don't have real assets to show for it, your equity will be negative
09:32:56 <gncbot> kimmo: The operation succeeded.
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10:37:40 <daum> this si weird since updating from 2.2.9 to 2.4.4 when i go to an invocie instead of defaulting to the current date it keeps defaulting to march 10th, any ideas why this would be?
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11:06:46 <gjanssens> warlord: I found some time to apply the guile patches to trunk
11:07:05 <gjanssens> Here's what has to happen based on my changes:
11:07:07 <warlord> gjanssens: okay. I can clear out the build server when you tell me to.
11:07:18 <gjanssens> 1. I apply the patch
11:07:46 <gjanssens> 2. the g++.exe binary has to be removed (to trigger an update of GCC and some of its dependencies)
11:07:54 <gjanssens> 3. the autotools dir should be removed
11:09:02 <gjanssens> 4. the guile dir should be removed
11:09:41 <warlord> I thought g++.exe was part of msys?
11:10:16 <gjanssens> No, it's mingw
11:10:35 <gjanssens> We don't build it ourselves, but the install script takes care of installing it.
11:10:56 <gjanssens> The only way to trigger an update on it is to remove the g++.exe binary
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11:11:11 <gjanssens> That one is use to test if GCC_* is installed properly.
11:11:17 <warlord> Okay.
11:11:32 <warlord> Will the upgraded g++ still allow us to build 2.4.x?
11:11:45 <gjanssens> No
11:12:00 <gjanssens> Is the mingw environment shared ?
11:12:09 <gjanssens> Then we may have a problem
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11:14:44 <gjanssens> Grmbl, and I already pushed the patches while we were discussing.
11:14:58 <gjanssens> Do you want me to revert them ?
11:16:13 <gjanssens> Or is there a way to clone the current mingw environment for 2.4 builds before we have g++ updated ?
11:16:49 <warlord> Yes, it's a shared mingw environment.
11:17:11 <warlord> I haven't done anything, yet. I could try to clone the build server VM before I make any changes.
11:17:48 <gjanssens> Oh, I didn't mean that drastically, although that could be a solution as well
11:18:06 <gjanssens> I meant have two separate mingw environments configured in one VM
11:18:09 <warlord> That will probably be the quickest form.
11:18:22 <gjanssens> Yes, true
11:18:35 <warlord> Strangely, the build server seems to be "stuck" on packaging 2.4.4
11:18:49 <gjanssens> So you propose to have one VM for stable builds and one for trunk builds ?
11:18:52 <warlord> (or uploading it)
11:19:08 <warlord> Yes, that's what I'm proposing.
11:19:21 <warlord> ... since we need different build environments.
11:19:37 <warlord> How are YOU maintaining two build environments?
11:19:56 <gjanssens> As I said, I run two different mingw installations in one machine.
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11:20:04 <gjanssens> A bit tricky, but doable.
11:21:05 <warlord> How do you do that?
11:22:28 <gjanssens> I have installed MSYS twice in separate directories
11:22:50 <gjanssens> And then for each MSYS installation, I have setup a separate mingwrt
11:23:29 <gjanssens> The tricky bit is that the MSYS installer automatically searches for a mingw to mount and changes /etc/fstab
11:23:56 <gjanssens> So after installing both systems, I had to go in and correct the lines in each /etc/fstab
11:24:04 <warlord> I think in the grand scheme of things (especially as I just added 2TB of storage to my vmware filesystem) I can just close the build server.
11:24:16 <warlord> s/close/clone
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11:24:26 <warlord> This way we don't have to worry about it breaking too much.
11:24:51 <jay_t> hi
11:25:07 <gjanssens> And from there on it's mostly making sure that you use different base paths in custom.sh so that your stable build won't conflict with the development build
11:25:23 <gjanssens> But I agree that having two VM's is way less complex
11:25:35 <gjanssens> and less prone to subtle errors
11:25:48 <warlord> Okay, I'll go work on cloning the VM.
11:26:54 <gjanssens> Ok, just remember to configure the "stable" VM to checkout the 2.4 branch instead of trunk...
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11:28:56 <warlord> gjanssens: yep, that's easy enough..
11:32:17 <gjanssens> Great.
11:32:49 <gjanssens> For the unstable VM, I think it would be best to remove most of the build directories.
11:33:08 <gjanssens> Since we update GCC, we probably want all packages to be rebuilt.
11:33:19 <gjanssens> I didn't think of that when I created my list.
11:34:01 <warlord> Oooh, here's a problem -- How do we know which build system to use for a tag?
11:34:35 <warlord> I'm happy to run 'reset.sh'
11:34:46 <gjanssens> We can't delete mingw itself though, because then our build scripts won't even work, so you still need to delete the g++.exe binary manually
11:35:00 <gjanssens> reset.sh ? Didn't know about that one. Interesting.
11:35:14 <gjanssens> The tags. Hmm
11:35:34 <gjanssens> Perhaps it's time to refine the tag build script then also.
11:36:10 <warlord> This is getting more and more complicated as we think it through...
11:36:13 <gjanssens> One that decides to build for trunk or stable builds based on some context information or parameter sets
11:36:52 <gjanssens> True. The change is pretty invasive, but I didn't see another way to do it.
11:37:03 <gjanssens> And believe me, I tried...
11:37:04 <warlord> .... or we do something in the 2.4 branch that would carry over into the 2.4-based tags. Except that the build server doesn't use the scripts from there.
11:37:19 <warlord> Why can't we build 2.4 with the upgraded g++?
11:38:20 <gjanssens> I didn't manage to build guile 1.6 with g++ 4.x
11:39:51 <gjanssens> I'm running out of time for today.
11:40:31 <gjanssens> I think we have some time to fix the tag building problem. There's no release planned in the next few days.
11:40:45 <gjanssens> So I propose to come back to it tomorrow.
11:41:43 <gjanssens> But it's worth thinking this through and find a future proof solution.
11:41:45 <warlord> Okay.. I'm thinking I wont do anything today to the main VM, on the theory that we need to think about how to we want it to work before jumping it. I think it *would* be better to have one build server that could build all branches.
11:41:53 <warlord> Agreed..
11:42:32 <gjanssens> This probably won't be the first time we will have such major environment changes.
11:42:36 <gjanssens> s/first/last
11:43:27 <gjanssens> Perhaps we should raise this on the devel list also ?
11:43:34 <warlord> Yes, we should.
11:43:56 <warlord> Do you want to compose it? You understand the problem (and requirements) much better than I.
11:47:59 <gjanssens> Ok, I will, but later. I have to run now.
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11:50:51 <warlord> okay, thanks gjanssens-afk
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11:53:14 <fell> warlord: is I get no response from lists and wiki.
11:53:14 <fell> while ping is ok.
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12:03:04 <warlord> fell: yes, the VM seems to have hung.. I'm having trouble at the console,too. I'm going to try to reboot it...
12:05:52 <warlord> Aha, it finally came back.
12:06:48 <fell> yup, confirmed! :-)
12:07:28 <warlord> Sorry about that..
12:07:41 <warlord> Clearly my filesystem isn't properly raid-striped :(
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12:41:20 <warlord> One of these days I really need to update the code server to a more modern OS. It's still running FC10, which is almost 3 years old.
12:41:57 <fell> Never touch a running system! ;-)
12:42:44 <warlord> Heh. Well...
12:43:27 <warlord> Every few years I think it's okay to touch it... Lots of the servers it runs are way out of date, or might have "issues" that need to be fixed.
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14:14:46 <Mer|in> anyone here messed with https://github.com/jwiegley/ledger/wiki
14:14:47 <Mer|in> ?
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14:37:15 <tedcx> file open bug in 2.24 - won't let me open directories with a preceeding dot - like /afs/.foo/
14:38:45 <warlord> LOL. tedcx, that was probably a generic fix put in to prevent putting stuff into .gnucash.. Please file a bug report, I'm sure none of the other devs have even HEARD of AFS. Even *I* didn't think of this case.
14:40:29 <tedcx> what prev rev works?
14:41:32 <warlord> Ummm...
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14:46:43 <warlord> tedcx: Looks like r20099 is where the change was made on Jan 14
14:47:31 <tedcx> how do I grab that ?
14:47:40 <tedcx> bug report is in
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14:51:46 <warlord> Bug 639322
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15:03:33 <tedcx> 2.4.0 has the same bug...
15:04:51 <warlord> When was 2.4.0 released?
15:05:03 <warlord> The change was made Jan 14th.
15:06:15 <Antisoche> Where do the 'gnc:' APIs come from in the reporting? How can I find what functions are available?
15:06:37 <warlord> Antisoche: from the .scm files
15:06:48 <warlord> there's not good documentation on that
15:10:43 <Antisoche> Okay. I guess my question then is where are the functions like 'gncAddressGetName' declared?
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15:12:35 <Antisoche> ../engine/swig-business-core.c ?
15:12:52 <warlord> Yes, those are the swig-wrapped C interfaces.
15:17:43 <Antisoche> thx
15:18:47 <Antisoche> btw: Bug 645352 has an updated owner-report with fixed subtotal ordering.
15:29:40 <tedcx> 2.2.8 doesn't compile on suse 11.3 - anyway to get 2.4.4 patched - even via e-mail?
15:40:53 <Antisoche> Is it me or are the "Tip Of The Day" completely backwards? Shouldn't -- [Forward >] [X Close] [< Back] -- be -- [< Back] [X Close] [Forward >] -- ? Or have Close to the very right? Isn't that what the HIG says?
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16:47:17 <Joc> when creating a new file, one get to select predefines sets of accounts, is there a way to add another set of pre-defined accounts at a later stage?
16:48:54 <jsled> yup. File > New > New Account Somethingorother
16:49:56 <Joc> all I see is File > New File, there is no just "new" in that menu
16:50:15 <jsled> Do you have an Accounts tab selected?
16:50:43 <Joc> I have the "accounts" tab selected
16:51:30 <jsled> what version of gnucash?
16:51:35 <Joc> 2.4.4
16:52:11 <jsled> Huh. Something might have changed in 2.4, but in 2.2 it's {File > New > New Account Hierearchy}
16:52:20 <jsled> (with an Accounts tab selected)
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16:52:55 <Joc> I definitely don't see that.
16:56:21 <Joc> ah, found it, it's under Actions > New Accoung Hierarchy. Thanks.
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16:56:41 <jsled> that's a better home for it, really
16:58:35 <Joc> I don't know, I think that the file menu is more logical, at least that's where I first looked.
16:59:51 <Joc> the important thing is that I found, thanks to you.
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17:43:03 <kimmo> hrm, is the register entry window supposed to evaluate '*' as pow() ?
17:43:44 <kimmo> heh, this is strange
17:44:13 <kimmo> my oo.calc habits kicked in, so I wrote '=a*b' instead of 'a*b'
17:44:26 <kimmo> the result? I made more money than Google and Nokia combined
17:44:57 <Joc> great, you can now retire... :)
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17:52:25 <kimmo> yeah
17:52:33 <kimmo> after they pay up
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17:52:48 <kimmo> before that, I'll declare bankruptcy a few times over
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18:04:50 <warlord> kimmo: no, * is multiplication.. But ** might be pow()
18:04:57 <warlord> 10*4 == 40.
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20:21:44 <Antisoche> So I'm back to my capital gains problem. It looks like a simple Account Report will get me close enough if I don't scrub the lots. But once I do that I'm hosed. I'm trying to figure out how to get past that. From the account in question, I do a find and try to exclude any transactions whose splits go into capital gains but I can't seem to do that. Suggestions?
20:24:12 <warlord> dont scrub.
20:25:37 <Antisoche> For some reason I really want the numbers in my capital gains to go up though...
20:27:19 <warlord> enter them manually when you need to
20:27:25 <Antisoche> Actually, I have to scrub in order to get the sale values.
20:28:15 * Antisoche is very frustrated again
20:30:37 <Antisoche> Is the 'Account Report' a .scm file somewhere? I can't seem to find it.
20:31:39 <warlord> yes, register.scm
20:32:26 <Antisoche> thx
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22:46:44 <Joc> I'm trying to get the price of stock, I've now installed the "Online Price Retriaval" and appears to be working, according to the tutorial I'm supposed to tool>price editor, but after filling the fields I was get "you must select a commodity", but how one is supposed to select a commodity?
22:48:01 <warlord> joc, did you click on "Get Quotes"?
22:49:06 <Joc> aah, ok, no...
22:49:36 <Joc> I'm now getting something. thanks
22:53:42 <Antisoche> What is the Account Transaction Report supposed to show?
22:57:38 <Antisoche> Ah - a transaction must be selected. Ok.
22:59:02 <Joc> you can select an account, the report will show all the transactions of that account.
22:59:20 <Antisoche> You should try that.
22:59:30 <Joc> ?
22:59:36 <Joc> I did try that.
23:00:23 <Antisoche> It does no such thing. If you have no transaction selected, the Account Transaction Report gives you nothing.
23:00:34 <warlord> joc, an Account Transaction Report is for a single transaction. The Account Report will show everything in the current register.
23:01:36 <Joc> right, sorry for the confusion.
23:01:41 <warlord> anyways, i'm off.
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