2011-03-19 GnuCash IRC logs

00:04:30 *** necrodearia has quit IRC
00:38:25 *** slidesinger has quit IRC
01:21:36 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
02:23:40 *** treyka has joined #gnucash
03:39:19 *** esperegu has joined #gnucash
03:56:11 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
04:20:05 *** esperegu has quit IRC
05:03:17 *** fell_afk has quit IRC
07:39:18 *** ptx has joined #gnucash
08:01:04 *** ptx has quit IRC
08:14:17 *** esperegu has joined #gnucash
08:21:30 <Antisoche> warlord-afk: very nice. 49% looks like you really pushing it to the last minute...
08:24:35 <Antisoche> (Feel free to fill in linking verbs where appropriate.)
09:09:41 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
09:11:03 *** ptx has joined #gnucash
09:11:41 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
09:19:49 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
09:31:16 *** treyka has quit IRC
09:35:50 *** esperegu has quit IRC
09:47:59 *** xnox has joined #gnucash
10:01:28 *** ErKa has quit IRC
10:16:44 *** LiamH has joined #gnucash
10:19:46 <LiamH> How do I make a report with the cost basis for a mutual fund? Account report gives me #shares and share price, but not the cost (product of the two).
10:20:08 * Antisoche smirks
10:20:28 <Antisoche> LiamH: "Advanced Portfolio" is the report that returns that information
10:21:44 <LiamH> Antisoche: OK, I saw that suggested when I did a search. But I guess I don't know how to use that, when I tried it, I got some report for all my expense categories dated 12/31/2006. Not sure what to do from there.
10:22:08 <Antisoche> LiamH: Have you played with the report options?
10:23:17 <LiamH> For the account report, yes. For the advanced portfolio, not yet.
10:23:56 <Antisoche> LiamH: Advanced Portfolio is really "Stock Portfolio".
10:24:24 <Antisoche> It should select everything of type "Stock" automatically.
10:25:14 <LiamH> OK, it has all my stocks and funds.
10:25:23 <LiamH> One line each
10:25:47 <Antisoche> Yes. And one of those lines is "Basis", yes?
10:26:06 <LiamH> One column is basis.
10:26:22 <Antisoche> Sorry, yes, column.
10:26:38 <LiamH> and one row is the fund I want information on
10:29:55 <LiamH> I'm not sure what "Basis" means here, but I would like to see all the (purchase) transactions, and their costs.
10:32:21 <Antisoche> Hmm ... I've been struggling with that some myself, lately. I don't think the report we want really exists at this time.
10:33:35 <LiamH> Antisoche: OK, I'll work with the account report. Multiplication isn't that hard a task. Thanks for the help.
10:34:07 <Antisoche> There may be another way to get the data ... I'm experimenting.
10:36:42 <Antisoche> LiamH: If you do an Edit->Find based on account and select your fund name and then run an Account Report it will give you "Funds Out" (cost) and "Funds In" (expenses), but it doesn't sum them for you.
10:39:16 <Antisoche> Hmm ... cost/expense not quite that simple if you have splits or received cash in lieu I guess...
10:40:23 <LiamH> That does seem to work for me, lack of summing is not a problem. Just need it in report format.
10:40:37 <Antisoche> LiamH: Are you just trying to get an idea of your accounts or are you trying to determine capital gains for tax purposes?
10:40:56 <LiamH> The latter.
10:41:35 <Antisoche> Me too. Except I think the tool should do the adding for me. :)
10:42:02 <Antisoche> What is your plan with the report? Just to print it out and file it?
10:42:26 <LiamH> I agree. However, I am sending this to my accountant. He will do the adding, and charge me for it.
10:45:03 <LiamH> It's a bit more complicated, actually. My understanding is that there are different ways to compute the cost basis (like FIFO, etc.). It doesn't matter so much what method you use, but you have to be consistent year to year for the same stock or fund.
10:46:45 <Antisoche> I thought FIFO was pretty much your only option, unless you don't have records for early DRIPs, etc. Then you can just use available data, but I'm no tax accountant, so ...
10:47:37 <LiamH> You might be right, I'm not an accountant either. I'm just going on recollection from when I last looked into it years ago.
10:48:34 <Antisoche> The IRS documentation is actually pretty decent, if you care to read it. But then, that's why you hired an accountant, right? :)
10:48:51 <LiamH> My sentiments exactly.
10:49:58 <Antisoche> Have you liquidated your shares in GnuCash?
10:50:24 <LiamH> Actually, when preparing material for him, I always have this thought: I'm grinding through all the accounts in gnucash to put numbers into little boxes that he then transfers to the IRS's little boxes. That's how he earns his fee.
10:50:39 <Antisoche> It will calculate cost basis for you as well via the lot scrubber.
10:50:41 <LiamH> No, holding my position in GnuCash!
10:53:40 <Antisoche> Ah - I was trying to figure out if that would help you until I remembered that I haven't used it yet. :)
10:54:42 * Antisoche is working on a patch to make the transaction description more informative first.
10:54:56 <LiamH> The search technique seems to work except that purchase transactions are labeled "sell" sometimes.
10:55:38 <LiamH> It looks random.
10:58:14 <Antisoche> In the 'Num' column?
10:58:26 <LiamH> yes
10:59:09 <LiamH> That can be eliminated easily though, can't it?
10:59:12 <Antisoche> GnuCash doesn't enforce any sort of rigor in the data entry. Those say sell because that's what you put in when you were entering the transaction. They aren't used internally (AIUI)
10:59:31 <LiamH> I did?
10:59:38 <Antisoche> You can turn that field off in the report.
10:59:55 <LiamH> right, done. But I'm curious what I did when I entered it.
11:00:14 <LiamH> because I wrote "purchase" in the description, but it shows up "sell". Can I fix that?
11:00:50 <Antisoche> Well - if you put in positive shares GnuCash will automatically select "Buy" and negative shares will say "Sell" ... you can override that but it might make good sense to check your running Balance and make sure it makes sense.
11:01:21 <Antisoche> Sure, changing it is just a matter of picking the desired valued from the dropdown.
11:01:35 <LiamH> Yes, balance makes sense, it's all reconciled and checks with statements. It's just the label in gnucash that's wrong.
11:01:46 <Antisoche> (Actually I'm pretty sure you can put anything in there whether its in the dropdown or not)
11:03:06 <LiamH> OK, this is going to be tedious, there are a lot of transactions. It must have been when I was new to GnuCash and didn't look at what I was entering.
11:03:53 <Antisoche> Yeah; I just started using GnuCash myself; I wish it were more helpful in providing "Data Input Best Practices".
11:04:37 <LiamH> Well, this was in 2004. It's served me well since then, so it's obviously not a huge problem.
11:04:48 <Antisoche> The business functions are most confusing...
11:07:38 <Antisoche> It would be interesting to see what numbers your accountant comes up with versus what's presented in the Advanced Portfolio report.
11:10:06 <LiamH> So are dividend purchases (reinvestment) supposed to be "div"?
11:10:28 <Antisoche> That's what I've been using (when I remember....)
11:10:43 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
11:11:52 <Antisoche> Yeah - I use 'Div' and I put it on the split assigned to "Income:Dividend"; for the shares transaction I put "Buy".
11:13:07 <Antisoche> On the cash transaction I apparently put nothing unless it's a Fee. :-/
11:13:43 <Antisoche> I have no idea if that's the right thing ... ref. my comment above about "Best Practices". :-)
11:13:53 <LiamH> Oh, I didn't notice that. Now I'll have to change all the fees too :-(
11:15:18 <LiamH> The fee I have in a different account however.
11:15:38 <Antisoche> I don't think you 'have' to ... but do what you want. GnuCash kinda adopts perl's TMTOWTDI attitude it seems to me.
11:15:55 <LiamH> I know
11:16:42 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
11:17:52 <Antisoche> I put my transaction fee on the 'Expenses' split for purchase/sales, and also on the source account when I'm charged a reorg fee, for example. That may not be best since the splits cancel themselves, but for now it makes sense to me.
11:19:22 <LiamH> I just have a completely separate entry. It would be nice to have it in one transaction, but I didn't think that was possible - a split into two that deals with four separate accounts in a single transaction.
11:21:19 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
11:21:35 <Antisoche> I think it'll go into 1 transaction, though I'm looking at my entry now ... I have a transaction that's a conversion with Cash in Lieu where the shares converted into dollars go into an account, but I'm not sure how I should feed it through Income as well just yet.
11:23:07 * Antisoche wonders why he is confused...
11:23:44 *** slidesinger has joined #gnucash
11:31:05 <Antisoche> Yeah, okay - I just need to duplicate the amount. The money out has a basis of 0 so sales==profits. So this one transaction will have 8 splits.
11:32:58 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
11:41:41 <LiamH> wow
11:53:48 *** roe has quit IRC
12:14:58 *** ptx has quit IRC
12:26:51 *** todd has quit IRC
12:27:02 <Joc> Why the "Net Assets" at the bottom shows zero when I have money in the checking account?
12:27:02 <gncbot> Joc: Sent 1 day, 16 hours, and 2 minutes ago: <fell> Create accounts below equity to move money between owners and company.
12:29:02 <Joc> Even the balance sheet shows I have zero asset, and zero in the checking account.
12:35:05 *** ErKa has quit IRC
12:36:57 *** fell_afk has joined #gnucash
12:36:58 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_afk
12:39:43 <Joc> fell_afk: gncbot sent me your answer you sent me a day ago, probably after I had left, thanks.
12:40:22 *** fell_afk is now known as fell
12:41:23 <Joc> it's real neat that the robot remembers your messages after you had left and then post them when you come back.
12:43:10 <fell> Joc: It is possible with <at>tell <nick> <text>
12:44:24 <Joc> that's the first time I saw that. nice.
12:45:00 <Joc> I have a question...
12:45:01 *** gmc has quit IRC
12:45:02 <Joc> Why the "Net Assets" at the bottom shows zero when I have money in the checking account?
12:48:42 <Joc> fell: I understand "tell <nick> <text>", but what is "<at>"?
12:49:21 <fell> commercial at sign
12:50:02 <fell> "@"
12:50:10 <Joc> ah, ok, for example @tell fell hello!
12:52:51 <Antisoche> LiamH: Yeah - [1] old shares [2] new shares [3] fractional sale [4] cash in lieu [5] profit [6] capital gain [7] reorgnaization fee [8] pay fee
12:54:09 <Antisoche> I could probably pull out the fee into its own transaction but I like having everything associated. Same for the partial share liquidation.
12:55:40 <LiamH> Antisoche: so I have done each of my mutual fund sell/buy as separate two separate transactions: one for the shares themselves, and the other for the fee. It would be nice to have them together, but I don't want the fee counted into the share price calculation.
12:56:24 <Antisoche> It also follows the example, so I'll assume that it's "best practice" to keep it together (though the lot scrubber doesn't do that). [ http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/invest-sell1.html ]
12:57:20 <Antisoche> LiamH: Well, as long as you remember to take the fee out of your cost basis I'm sure that's okay.
12:59:55 <Antisoche> (... or not. I'm sure the government won't complain if you pay extra taxes.)
13:01:17 <fell> Joc: I s the money in the default currency? If not, you might need an exchange rate.
13:01:30 <fell> in the right direction
13:02:45 <fell> if default currency and report currency differ, there a FX rates also needed.
13:02:59 <Joc> I believe it is. I created a new file and entered just two transaction, one from the equity:opening, and one from the income:salary, that's it.
13:03:26 <Joc> how would I check for that?
13:05:00 <Joc> from the "accounts" tab, I can see the two amounts I entered, and all the amounts have just "$"
13:05:17 *** todd has joined #gnucash
13:07:24 <fell> edit->preferences->accouts->Default Currency and ...Reports->Default Report Currency
13:09:05 <Joc> both are set to local, CAD
13:11:50 <Joc> I was following the tutorial before, and they were using USD so I also used USD. I wonder if I've messed some setting somewhere. But right now I'm using a newly created file, just to try to figure out why the net asset at the bottom does not work as expected.
13:13:06 *** aregee has joined #gnucash
13:15:57 <fell> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/gnome-utils/window-main-summarybar.c has some comments about the summary bar.
13:16:28 <fell> I didn't watch the summary bar regulary.
13:16:32 *** LiamH has quit IRC
13:16:33 *** xnox has quit IRC
13:18:40 <Joc> I created a new file again, making sure that the currency is my local currency (CAD), and selected simple checking, and finally entered one salary deposit, but still the net asset remains at zero. I don't get it.
13:22:32 <Joc> I've reconciled the amounts, just in case, but again the "net asset" and the balance sheet are zero.
13:22:42 <fell> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/gnome-utils/window-main-summarybar.c#L360 shows the definition, the author had in mind.
13:26:34 <Joc> I've looked at the link. I don't see how that helps.
13:28:30 <Joc> would you mind creating a new file, and enter just an amount in the checking account?
13:32:36 <fell> Ok, there are bugs, e.g. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628878
13:35:36 <Joc> that look similar to what I'm seeing, but given that all I did is to add amounts, never deleting, I wonder if that bug applies too. Also, it's zero in the balance sheet report.
13:38:06 <fell> did you post your transactions (move to the next txn)?
13:38:25 <Joc> ???
13:38:57 <Joc> I don't undestand the question.
13:39:26 <Antisoche> Did you hit <Enter> ?
13:39:43 <Antisoche> Or click the down-facing arrow in the toolbar
13:40:08 <Joc> yes, the amounts does show up under the "accounts" tab
13:41:23 <Joc> I've entered a $1000 salary into the checking account, and an an expense of $10 bank fee
13:41:49 <fell> did you refresh your reports?
13:42:15 <Antisoche> reports?
13:42:50 <Joc> yes, I did a view>refresh, and also closed the tab and recreated the report, same thing, everything is zero.
13:44:20 * Antisoche thought Joc was talking about the summary bar/button at the bottom of the accounts tab that shows grand total, assets, and profits.
13:44:26 <fell> and the accounts are not excluded in the report options?
13:44:38 <Joc> I wonder if it's just my computer that does that, and if others see the same thing.
13:45:54 <Joc> Antisoche: yes, I'm talking about the bar at the bottom in the "accounts" tab, and also the "balance sheet" report, both shows zero asset.
13:47:09 <Antisoche> If you right click on the account and select "Edit", what does it say the "Account Type" is? I haven't been following your conversation...
13:47:43 <Joc> checking account
13:49:17 <Antisoche> I don't believe that's one of the options. "Bank" maybe?
13:50:15 <Joc> assets > current assets > checking account, type "bank"
13:51:21 <Antisoche> What version of GnuCash?
13:51:57 <Joc> the latest, 2.4.4, under WinXP
13:53:48 <Joc> am I right, if there is money in the checking account, I do have asset, and the balance sheet should show that amount, right?
13:54:28 <Antisoche> Okay, well, here's what I did under 2.2.9/Linux: File->New. Currency = CAD. Default Accounts -> Next -> Next -> Next (till it was done). I transferred $500 from Equity:Opening Balance to Assets:Current:Checking. The "Total" column says "CAD 500" and the buttom button/bar says $0. So I click it and change it to CAD and it says "Assets: CAD 500".
13:56:33 <Joc> rechecking...
13:59:17 <Joc> I'm quite sure that everything is CAD. When I created the new file, I selected CAD (was already the default), all the accounts have the currency CAD.
13:59:18 <Antisoche> Same thing with 2.4.4± (SVN) under Linux
14:00:12 <Joc> why did you have to change the currency to CAD, given you had selected CAD when you created the file?
14:01:09 <Antisoche> At the bottom of the accounts tab? I guess the default isn't sane in this particular case. There are many ways to measure your net worth in multi-currency (commodity) account.
14:01:22 <Joc> the bottom bar says " $, Grand Total: Net Assets: $0.00 Profits: $0.00"
14:01:33 <Antisoche> Change it to CAD
14:03:16 <Joc> I went to edit>preferences>accounts, the "default currency" is CAD (Canadian Dollar)
14:03:25 <Joc> is that the right place?
14:03:56 <Antisoche> No. It's a button. Click it.
14:04:14 <Antisoche> See the vertical "<>" on the right?
14:04:33 <Joc> ???
14:04:48 <Joc> in the accounts tab?
14:05:08 <Antisoche> The thing that you're saying says 0 is a button. Click it.
14:06:52 <Joc> sorry, I have no idea of what button you're talking about.
14:07:22 <Antisoche> Do you see something that says "" $, Grand Total: Net Assets: $0.00 Profits: $0.00" ?
14:07:31 <Joc> yes
14:07:34 <Antisoche> click it
14:08:17 <Joc> there is a drop down menu that appears
14:08:46 <Antisoche> ok. Can you change it from $ to CAD ?
14:09:25 <Antisoche> And does it no longer say $0 when you do that?
14:09:45 <Joc> with two line, the only difference is that one has "grand total", the other is blank. All I can do is to select one line or the other
14:10:55 <Antisoche> ok, ... hmm
14:11:32 <Joc> I'm trying to have a screen shot online, that should make things easier...
14:12:20 <Antisoche> My locale is US$ so I see 3 lines - The two '$' ones, plus CAD. However, if I change my default currency to CAD it's still the same way.
14:15:16 <Antisoche> With my currency set to CAD if I do a new file, the new currency defaults to CAD but everything else is the same. The "$" line remains $0, but I can click it and change it to CAD and it shows "CAD 500.00" in assets.
14:18:21 <Joc> mmmh, I though I had Irfanview on that machine... will take a few minutes.
14:22:27 *** aregee has quit IRC
14:24:58 <Joc> here is what I see http://joc.gaj.ca/test/gnucash.png
14:28:49 <Joc> the balance sheet: http://joc.gaj.ca/test/balance.png
14:32:21 *** aregee1 has joined #gnucash
14:42:37 <fell> I assume, you entered the txns in 2011, not 2010. So your balance sheet is showing the wrong year.
14:45:01 <Antisoche> Joc: Sorry, I don't know any more.
14:45:44 <Joc> BINGO!!!! I had the accounting period wrong!!!
14:46:10 <Joc> fell: you have sharp eyes!
14:46:27 <Joc> this was so stupid! :(
14:47:05 <Joc> I was looking at the year 2010, but all the transaction were in 2011.
14:48:43 <Joc> thanks a lot fell and Antisoche!!! :-)
14:49:27 <Antisoche> Glad we could help you figure out what year it is. :)
14:50:28 <Joc> hehe yeah... I still have 2006 calendar on my wall....
15:19:18 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
15:54:37 *** treyka has joined #gnucash
16:20:41 *** treyka has quit IRC
16:47:01 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
17:13:07 *** fell_afk has quit IRC
17:26:35 *** OvrLrd-Q has quit IRC
18:11:40 *** aregee1 has quit IRC
18:22:26 *** crimsoncor has joined #gnucash
18:23:23 <crimsoncor> I've noticed that the Advanced Portfolio report in 2.4.x no longer displays dividends as Realized Gains. Is that intentional or did the report get broken somehow?
18:39:14 *** Askarii has joined #gnucash
18:45:37 *** Askarii1 has quit IRC
19:46:36 *** mads- has joined #gnucash
19:55:22 *** Askarii1 has joined #gnucash
19:56:30 *** fell_afk has joined #gnucash
19:56:30 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_afk
20:02:22 *** Askarii has quit IRC
20:58:39 *** sjc has quit IRC
21:47:47 *** mads- has quit IRC
21:55:43 *** cinix has joined #gnucash
22:03:12 *** fell_afk has quit IRC
22:34:09 <cinix> I have setup liability accounts to track what is remaining of my student loans. Is it correct to offset the liabilities by decreasing my equity in opening balances?
22:38:27 <cinix> It doesn't seem right to me because I don't ever see my equity change as the loans are paid off. But I wouldn't want to make it an asset, predate it, then expense it away. It was expended years ago.
23:09:54 *** cinix1 has joined #gnucash
23:12:19 *** cinix1 has quit IRC
23:14:15 *** cinix1 has joined #gnucash
23:18:45 *** cinix has quit IRC
23:26:40 *** cinix1 has quit IRC