2011-03-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:26:21 <bob1> is this the place to ask about development howto's ?
10:26:54 <warlord> only if you're developing gnucash
10:27:05 <bob1> no kidding
10:27:24 <bob1> i want to fix some bugs in the windows version
10:28:06 <bob1> should i use windows dev tool set of can i use linux and make .exe
10:28:19 <bob1> "of" = "or"
10:33:37 <warlord> You cannot cross-compile from linux to windows at this time. Take a look at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows
10:33:57 <warlord> In particular, see http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows#Instructions_for_an_.28almost.29_automated_build
10:34:57 <bob1> thanks
10:35:06 <Antisoche> lol
10:35:30 * Antisoche is amused by the level of snark
10:36:32 <warlord> Antisoche: ??
10:37:10 <warlord> who's being snarky?
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10:42:59 <Antisoche> I like ArthurB's idea. Haven't gotten that far to know if I feel I need it tho.
10:44:08 <Antisoche> I'm not sure I really want to track day-to-day spending like that. :-/
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10:55:13 <warlord> Yeah, the QIF importer matching is whole-string, not regex.
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11:03:59 <warlord> The generic importer (used by everything else) uses token-based bayesian matching, which is better.
11:08:01 <Antisoche> I was going to ask about using the Bayes filter, but it didn't seem like that would be the right technology.
11:08:23 <Antisoche> But that's something else I haven't play with, either.
11:10:40 <warlord> Well, the bayesian doesnt apply to qif.
11:12:00 <Antisoche> Granted. But (in 2.2.9 anyway) it has to be explicitly enabled.
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11:13:04 <warlord> True.
11:13:08 <warlord> It should be auto-enabled in 2.4
11:13:23 <warlord> (remember, 2.2 is irrelvant at this time)
11:13:55 <Antisoche> Sure. I have an irrational fear of 2.4 though.
11:16:59 <Antisoche> 2.2.9 seems to do weird things with my entries though, so I should probably use 2.4 ...
11:19:33 <Antisoche> My statements round the #/shares and reinvestment prices, so I have a lot off off-balances, where I end up shy or surplus 0.0003 shares, etc. Trying to force statements to match seems a Herculean effort, and some of the decisions GNC makes are baffling. I just found some penny entries in my Imbalances account. :(
11:20:57 <warlord> Did you set your commodity SCU and account appropriately?
11:21:13 <Antisoche> SCU?
11:22:01 <warlord> Smallest Commodity Unit (aka, smallest fraction)
11:23:30 <Antisoche> Well ... I'm not sure. I have it set to - I think - 4 decimal places, but my statements have #shares displayed with 3 decimals in the transaction record, 4 in the "positions" entry, and I think 5 for the reinvestment price (sometimes).
11:24:44 <warlord> Price decimals are irrelevant; the price is always a "computed" value.
11:24:56 <warlord> What matters are #shares and total value
11:25:06 <warlord> (those are the only stored values)
11:25:45 <Antisoche> In my statements, #shares is the least reliable number. What matters there is price/share and $ transacted.
11:26:08 <warlord> .. and that would be why you're having issues.
11:26:46 <warlord> Why is #shares not accurate/reliable? That sounds like a horrible brokerage if they can't tell you how many shares you own!
11:28:01 <Antisoche> Meh ... maybe. As an example, I have one dividend of "27.78", which was reinvested at "55.48". #shares transacted is "0.501", but doing the division I get "0.50072098..."
11:28:32 <warlord> so, which value is the rounded value?
11:28:37 <warlord> something's gotta give.
11:28:48 <Antisoche> So the transaction detail has these rounding issues in the number of shares.
11:29:19 <warlord> Wow. Bogus. I'd complain to them.
11:29:52 <warlord> Seriously, how many shares DO you have? Did you get .501 shares? Or did you get .50072098 shares? Or...
11:30:12 <warlord> (these are not rhetorical questions -- these are questions you should be asking your brokerage)
11:30:27 <Antisoche> But the "Account positions" gives the correct number of shares ... to 3 decimal places. I bet (haven't tested) that if I add the #shares listed in the transaction detail I won't get the # listed in the positions because of the rounding.
11:31:30 <warlord> Right; gnucash needs to know the correct # decimal places that they use.
11:32:07 <Antisoche> They're not going to print an infinite number of decimal places in #shares/transacted. The ratio could be pi, but $recieved is not going to be a fractional cent, and the cost per share is also a fixed boundary.
11:33:05 <Antisoche> I can't buy 1 share at $pi, but I can receive pi shares.
11:33:06 <warlord> Yes, but at some point they are going to round your #shares.
11:33:34 <warlord> They're not going to give you $pi shares. They might give you 3.14159...[some limit] shares
11:33:42 <warlord> But it wont be $pi...[infinite]
11:33:54 <warlord> their computers wont be able to handle that.
11:34:00 <warlord> (just like GnuCash cant)
11:34:59 <Antisoche> Yeah ... in the case of a DRIP they would have to clip some precision. When they print that the dividend is on 'x' number of shares, they list 5 decimal places.
11:37:38 <warlord> So... try your precision to 5 and see if it works out?
11:38:34 <Antisoche> Will that recompute all the values?
11:38:35 <warlord> For example, to 5 places, 27.78/55.48 = .50072
11:38:50 <warlord> This rounds (at 3 places) to .501
11:39:46 <warlord> No, you'll have to re-enter your data to get it to use the new (expanded) fraction
11:39:59 <Antisoche> Good
11:41:18 <Antisoche> I don't own any BRK so it hasn't really been a big deal. The $ off accounts to fractions of a penny at best.
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11:43:18 <Antisoche> What I've done is that when balances are off a lot (0.0008 was the biggest) I'd just go back and enter all 3 values, letting GnuCash round in a way that still works out but gets me closer to the .0000 I need.
11:44:07 <Antisoche> (Clearly the way my statements are printed, the #shares $/share and $ don't always account properly...)
11:45:23 <Antisoche> ... so GNC prompts me which item to round. $ transacted is always fixed, but I'll pick one of the other two values to get me closer and still round within reason to what's printed on my statement. Ya?
11:45:59 <Antisoche> (The thoughts are always complete in my head ... not sure if everything makes it out tho.)
11:55:11 <warlord> Maybe?
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12:31:51 <Antisoche> Oops - actually that 0.0008 transaction was the only one I couldn't reconcile....
12:41:35 <Antisoche> Whoa ... changing the number of decimal places erases my balance ...
12:50:46 <warlord> It probably needs to be recomputed.
12:53:04 <Antisoche> ... this looks like the opposite of better
12:53:28 <Antisoche> Now I'm off by 1.66 shares
12:54:02 <Antisoche> .. and we just autosaved. :-\
12:59:18 <Antisoche> Ah - typo. 0.00024 and counting :)
13:04:45 <Antisoche> Okay, I don't want to change my decimalization. Now I'm off by 0.00001. That's too much precision.
13:06:20 <Antisoche> I simply don't have the precision I need in my statements to account properly, so I'll chose to round either the number of shares or the price per share each statement to work towards my position holdings.
13:13:10 <warlord> And you've seen the light.
13:27:48 <Antisoche> Isn't that what I said in the beginning?
14:21:49 <bob1> @warlord - I got the win version to build, but i dont have the gnucash.bat (which probably sets some paths / env variables)
14:21:49 <gncbot> bob1: Error: "warlord" is not a valid command.
14:22:38 <warlord> bob1: that's generated by the installer.
14:22:57 <Antisoche> Heh. My biggest expense is "Depredation" (based on my font)
14:23:47 <warlord> I believe you want to run "dist.sh".
14:24:08 <warlord> Depredation? Hmm
14:24:31 <Antisoche> Kerning's a little tight...
14:24:42 <bob1> thanks - will try (only took 2 tries to get it to build :))
14:32:39 <bob1> bummer - dist.sh wants AQBANKING_WITH_QT = yes to create installer - I skipped in custom.sh
14:33:02 <bob1> will set = yes and do it again:'(
14:33:15 <warlord> sorry.. at least you dont need to rebuild EVERYTHING..
14:33:37 <bob1> NP - will give another go tomorrow
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14:37:56 <warlord> good luck.
14:39:47 <bob1> should be OK - i've downloaded the qt-win.... and should be no-brainer
14:44:54 <warlord> :)
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16:20:40 <Antisoche> What's the preferred import format, QIF or QFX ?
16:22:43 <warlord> define "preferred".. by whom?
16:23:28 <Antisoche> The last lossy format for importing into GnuCash
16:23:31 <Antisoche> least
16:24:14 <warlord> neither are lossy
16:24:17 <Antisoche> The FAQ says QIF is preferred over CSV
16:24:23 <Antisoche> ok
16:24:50 <warlord> (well, for all intents and purposes neither are lossy)
16:25:43 <Antisoche> ?
16:26:58 <warlord> there's structural data that gets lost, but the financial data is all intact.
16:27:07 <warlord> Where are you getting the data?
16:28:12 <Antisoche> I have to download it from my bank's website. They offer multiple formats. How about: you've mentioned that QIF doesn't goes through the Bayes code, but CSV does. How about QFX? Into which bucket does it fall?
16:33:04 <warlord> only qif
16:33:18 <warlord> but qfx > csv
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16:57:06 <Antisoche> The list QFX as the first option to download, but GNC (229) lists QIF as the first option to import.
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16:59:46 <warlord> so?
17:00:08 <warlord> that says nothing about preferences
17:01:23 <Antisoche> Unless the order is clearly alphabetic it implies some sort of preference.
17:01:33 <warlord> not true.
17:01:50 <warlord> it's just arbitrary... due to the order the modules load
17:02:53 <warlord> if you want it alphabetical, submit a code patch. :)
17:02:55 <Antisoche> Well - we have two different lists we can be referring to, but from a user perspective, the order implies meaning.
17:03:08 <warlord> the user would be wrong ;)
17:03:26 <Antisoche> ... that's one perspective. :)
17:06:43 * Antisoche wonders how safe it is to assert that people more readily associate a linear set with an ordered list than any other arbitrary structure.
17:07:34 <warlord> well, then, submit a patch to fix it!
17:08:06 <Antisoche> I haven't gotten my question answered yet about what the preferred order is ! ;-)
17:08:22 <warlord> Well, apparently it should be alphabetical
17:08:36 <warlord> read: we do not have a preferred input method.
17:08:41 <warlord> s/input/import
17:09:10 <Antisoche> Yeah, yeah ... I'm still learning over here...
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17:55:11 <warlord> Yay, new HDDs arrived. Running a badblocks test; then gonna run some pre-burn tests before I put them into production.
17:56:07 <Antisoche> What'd you get?
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18:09:44 <warlord> 2x2TB 7200rpm
18:10:44 <Antisoche> Nice. Same here; kinda surprised there isn't a new sweet spot...
18:11:05 <warlord> yeah..
18:11:20 <Antisoche> Personal or server h/w?
18:12:37 <warlord> yes
18:12:51 <warlord> (this is for the VM server that houses code.gnucash.org)
18:13:29 <Antisoche> Hmm. Price has fallen 50% since I bought mine...
18:14:01 <warlord> It'll take 240 minutes per pass.. Not too bad.
18:14:14 <warlord> I paid $110ea for a pair
18:14:25 <Antisoche> What do you do besides badblocks?
18:15:10 <warlord> I'm currently running badblocks -w -s
18:15:21 <Antisoche> 110? I paid 150... Listed at 83 at pricewatch. I got the 32MB ones; didn't price them specifically.
18:15:23 <warlord> Then I'm going to run preclear
18:15:46 <warlord> 2TB 7200RPM for $83?
18:15:52 <warlord> I dont think so.
18:15:54 <warlord> Maybe 5900RPM
18:16:39 <Antisoche> http://www.unityelectronics.com/products/5796/Hitachi_Deskstar_2TB_Serial_ATA_SATA_3_0Gbps_3_5_Hard_Drive_7200RPM_32MB_HDS722020ALA330_0F10311_Refurbished
18:16:41 <warlord> I suspect the burn-in will take a few days.. which is fine. I want to make sure the drives don't have infant mortality. Luckily they weren't DoA!
18:16:50 <Antisoche> Er, that's a refurb ...
18:17:01 <warlord> Oh... Refurb. That doesn't count.
18:19:15 <Antisoche> I see a new WD 7200 for $90, but the site returns 500 ISE
18:22:10 <warlord> I bought the 2TB 7K3000 64MB 6Gbps drives.. (although I forgot that my SATA controller is only 3Gbps)
18:22:52 <Antisoche> Nice - $95, free ground shipping: http://www.serversupply.com/MFGR/WESTERN%20DIGITAL/HARD%20DRIVES/SATA-II/2TB-7200RPM/WD20EARS.htm
18:23:59 <Antisoche> I don't think 64MB was an option when I was looking. Either way, storage prices are ridiculously inexpensive these days.
18:24:19 <warlord> I paid $110ea, free shipping.
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18:25:22 <warlord> Ah, that's a Caviar Green. I wouldn't want a "green" drive; I need better performance. But okay, this is a better price than I got.
18:26:10 <Antisoche> Sadly, I think we're heading into a LCD-ification of resolution type era with the new SSD drives coming out.
18:27:39 <warlord> Maybe..
18:27:55 <warlord> Although a 2TB SSD drive would be nice for $110 ;)
18:28:18 <Antisoche> Perhaps. I'm not convinced their value just yet... :)
18:28:31 <warlord> heh
18:29:16 <Antisoche> What is preclear? A shell script? What's it do besides run smartctl?
18:30:43 <Antisoche> This thing? http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2817.0
18:30:51 <warlord> Yes, that thing
18:32:08 <warlord> It does more than that. It writes data to the disk and reads it back, and does random reads/writes.
18:33:27 <Antisoche> I see. For my purposes I was satisfied with badblocks, a full smartctl scan, and a bonnie run.
18:33:45 <warlord> I want to be a bit more thorough..
18:34:02 <Antisoche> Well, and that these are in a RAID-1
18:34:35 <warlord> Sure, but if you have bad blocks or mechanical problems it could still fail. (this is going to be RAID-1 too)
18:35:20 <Antisoche> I've had a number of hard drives fail on me, and unfortunately, very very few have failed at installation. It's always been months later...
18:35:52 <warlord> Well, part of this test is to try to shake out those kinds of issues early.
18:36:52 * Antisoche shrugs.
18:37:18 <Antisoche> Murphy and Eris always conspire against you...
18:37:43 <warlord> Yep.
18:37:50 <warlord> Hey, at least they weren't DoA
18:38:21 <warlord> That was test #1.
18:39:57 <Antisoche> sure. I think the most important thing to remember is that there are only two types of hard drives ... those that have failed and those that will. Whenever I shipping a server halfway across the globe I'd make an effort to make sure the drives came from different batches (usually the same manufacturer though) so avoid any IBM DeathStar type scenarios.
18:41:37 <kimmo> it helps to be paranoid
18:42:01 <Antisoche> kimmo: It's a learned condition. :)
18:42:27 <kimmo> not really, I've never had a drive fail that I hadn't backed up
18:43:10 <warlord> I've had drives fail.
18:43:23 <warlord> But I've always been able to back them up prior to complete failure.
18:43:58 <kimmo> wife thinks I'm crazy to insist on a buffalo terastation duo, two different brands of usb drives, and the school server all backing up my laptop and desktop
18:45:21 <kimmo> I change failed or failing drives enough at work
18:45:31 <warlord> heh. Well, there will be 6 HDDs in this server once I've finished adding these two. The main filesystem is currently 1.8TB; I'll be adding ~2TB more
18:45:46 <warlord> (it currently has 4 1TB disks)
18:46:16 <warlord> Eventually I'll be replacing those 1TB disks.. Probably within a year.
18:47:13 <kimmo> I'll need a big ass disk server for the media network at our new place
18:47:30 <kimmo> it's 3 months away still, so no rush
18:47:50 <warlord> Well, once I replace these 1TB disks in my VM server I'll probably move them to my Myth server.
18:47:50 <kimmo> I just want to toss my DVDs and CDs
18:48:11 <Antisoche> The RAID systems with 2.5" disks are pretty nice.
18:49:04 <kimmo> I should just wheel one of the racks at work home
18:49:18 <kimmo> noone would notice a missing SAN node, eh?
18:49:28 <warlord> Hmm, badblocks looks like it'll be ~240min per pass, times 4 passes. So 960mins, or about 16 hours. I guess that's not too bad.
18:49:36 <warlord> LOL
18:50:00 <kimmo> well they ARE mirrored in this 99,99% environment
18:50:31 <warlord> yep, and they will be mirrored in mine, too.
18:50:33 <kimmo> plus there's probably enough spare room in them so that I could maybe move some data around and actually make a node useless
18:52:13 <kimmo> wonder what my wife would think about a huge ass HDS rack (Approx 80 TB usable, triple parity), and a few brocade switches
18:52:33 <kimmo> at least we wouldn't run out of space for movies any time soon
18:52:39 <kimmo> but anyway I gotta go, ttyl
18:52:43 <warlord> Hey,I've convinced my wife we need a server room in the basement of our new house!
18:54:28 <Antisoche> 72TB in 4U: http://www.penguincomputing.com/hardware/storage/configurator/icebreaker4736
18:55:02 <Antisoche> Actually, I think that's only 3U.
18:55:34 <warlord> nice.
18:56:50 <Antisoche> Good to see the company is still kicking. But afk ...
19:00:35 <warlord> :)
19:17:38 <warlord> Hmm, each drive is currently writing at about 1.1Gbps (if my math is correct)
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22:16:48 <warlord> Interesting. One drive is 99.85% done, the other drive is only 95.39% done. One's been working 30s longer. I guess it's just a slightly faster drive.
22:17:12 <warlord> (4h27m elapsed)
22:24:56 <warlord> (with the first pass)
22:41:57 <Antisoche> Hmm... Ok, Doing my personal finances. I put my salary into the 'salary' account and don't bother with the expenses of federal witholding, social security, medicare, etc. Then I get a tax refund. Where do I put that? "Income" seems wrong, but debiting an otherwise empty "Expense:Taxes:Federal" doesn't seem right either.
22:44:49 <warlord> Well, if you didn't bother with the withholdings, then what did you put in to Salary? Your net (take-home)?
22:45:01 <Antisoche> Yes.
22:45:21 <warlord> Then I'd use Income:Tax Refund
22:46:26 <Antisoche> okay, that does make sense. thx.
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23:01:42 <Antisoche> Also, fwiw, I looked at owner-report.scm ... I had a hard time following it. What I would like to see is either the last column be 3 columns - credits, debits, and running total, with totals for each column; or just "total invoiced" and "total payments" numbers. This pertains to an old question I asked about how to see how much I billed someone when running the "Customer Report" (or to see what they paid compared with the 1099 they
23:01:42 <Antisoche> sent me).
23:05:10 <warlord> Like I said, the best way right now is to do a Find from the A/R account get just the customer in question, and then run a Register Account report.
23:07:19 <warlord> (right now there's not a good report to do what you want; you'd have to modify something like the Customer report to sum everything)
23:07:26 <warlord> anyways, i'm off. ttyl
23:07:28 <Antisoche> Sure ... I was just figuring what it was I actually wanted, and then looked to see how I'd go about adding it to the report.
23:07:28 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
23:08:30 <Antisoche> Well, anyway, that's where I got stuck. ttfn