2011-03-03 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:15:54 <wschaub> I have several scheduled transactions that gnucash says it has last run on 03/01/2011 however none of the invoices or bills that were scheduled exist. what am I doing wrong? and how can I get them to actually be recorded in the system? it worked great last month.
00:17:40 <wschaub> I'm using 2.2.9 from the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS repo.
00:35:13 <Antisoche> Ha. Looks like I either sold a partial lot or sold a lot other than the first. This ought to be fun...
00:35:21 <Antisoche> wschaub: Dunno, soory.
00:37:41 <wschaub> well, I guess I will have to enter those all in by hand then... quickbooks had a way to just play a memorized transaction from the list. does the new version of gnucash add much compared to 2.2.9?
00:38:34 <wschaub> I really want to like it but its not been very easy to switch from quickbooks. (I'm tired of needing to keep a windows VM around just for quickbooks)
00:39:32 <Antisoche> 2.2.9 is supposed to be able to do that.
00:39:52 <Antisoche> I know I have a SX somewhere that keep popping up but I ignore it.
00:43:09 <Antisoche> Right-click on a transaction and select "Schedule"
00:43:50 <wschaub> well the thing is they were already in the scheduled transaction editor and they are listed as "last occur" as happening at the 1st of this month like they should have. they just aren't there. no invoices generated at 03/01/2011. I don't see any way to force them to re-run.
00:44:12 <Antisoche> You're not going to be blown away by anything in 2.4. From a user perspective it's very incremental. You might even say polish only.
00:44:56 <Antisoche> Is there anything under Actions -> Scheduled Transactions ?
00:45:33 <wschaub> if you mean the since last run its empty.
00:46:26 <Antisoche> I think I'm just pointing out the obvious because I don't know.
00:46:35 <wschaub> I think I did click it earlier to check things out and it did bring up a screen listing the transactions.
00:46:52 <wschaub> is it possible that I clicked the wrong button and told it to ignore those transactions somehow?
00:47:08 <Antisoche> Sometimes when the window pops up I ignore it and it gets hidden. If I dismiss the window and restart GNC it'll come back up.
00:47:26 <Antisoche> I think it wants me to do something. I'm not sure what you did. :-\
00:47:27 <wschaub> already restarted GNC.
00:47:29 <wschaub> no dice.
00:47:47 <Antisoche> There's a log file - have you looked at that?
00:47:53 <wschaub> no.
00:48:01 <wschaub> where is the log file?
00:48:15 <Antisoche> It's in the same folder as your data file
00:48:54 <wschaub> ok, theres a ton of dated log files.
00:49:23 <Antisoche> Yeah. I've noticed. Never looked though, but my SX seem to work. ;-)
00:52:51 <wschaub> Ok I think I see them in the log but I don't understand the log file format. it looks like it's meant to be machine readable rather than human readable.
00:53:49 <Antisoche> I think that's true -- GNC has the ability to replay a log file...
00:54:11 <Antisoche> You might be able to open an older version of your account file and have the SX get re-run
00:54:55 <Antisoche> (You'd lose anything you did in between, but maybe you might figure out what happened. YOu don't need to save it over your latest data, of course.
00:55:19 <wschaub> hrm I will have to look up that in the manual. obviously I would need to work with a copy of my main file.
00:56:23 <wschaub> i will probably just do the bills and invoices manually (theres only 3 set up right now) and try and figure this all out later.
00:56:48 <Antisoche> I think there's a bunch of backups of your data file as well - just make a copy to another name and open it.
00:57:15 <Antisoche> That shouldn't hurt anything, but you should always make backups of your main file.
00:57:21 <Antisoche> Now would just seem like a good time. :)
00:57:42 <wschaub> I hope they do a lot more work to gnucash to make it less rough around the edges in the future. , as far as backups, yeah no kidding.
00:59:08 <Antisoche> So far, I've found that GNC is actually pretty darn slick. It's just that everything's manual.
01:01:13 <wschaub> hrm thats odd, every log has a corresponding .xac file EXCEPT the one that seems to have my transactions in it.
01:02:03 <Antisoche> But that's okay, because you want to open the one just prior, yes?
01:03:02 <wschaub> I mean its basic double entry accounting. there's other linux accounting packages for linux out there but to tell the truth I chose gnucash because I didn't want to use a web based system over a simple desktop based application.
01:04:08 <Antisoche> I agree. I think web stuff is nice to have, but I generally want my data local. Though I do hear good things about mint.com.
01:04:52 <Antisoche> re: data being local - I don't want to have to setup and maintain a web server and app just to get to my data, either.
01:05:02 <wschaub> right.
01:05:20 <wschaub> I do like the fact that the new gnucash supports database backends though.
01:05:29 <wschaub> I don't like giant XML files.
01:05:50 <wschaub> and being able to do SQL queries for custom reports from outside the program would be a big win for me.
01:06:17 <wschaub> and I can still have a local data file because it (i think) supports sqlite.
01:06:33 <Antisoche> I look forward to your progress. =)
01:07:05 <Antisoche> Yes, SQLite was the initial target; they abstracted it from there (AIUI)
01:07:57 <wschaub> as far as being rough around the edges its a bunch of little things. like for one being able to set a starting number for my invoices.
01:08:05 <wschaub> no UI for that I had to edit the XML file.
01:08:31 <wschaub> and then I found out later that it uses the SAME counter for generating IDs for bills and stuff as well as invoice#s
01:08:51 <wschaub> nothing I can do about that though so I live with it.
01:08:54 <Antisoche> I think that's been address in 2.4. I vaguely recall seeing some dialog with a bunch of starting numbers for things.
01:09:04 <wschaub> but thats just one example of things that annoy me.
01:09:18 <Antisoche> 2.4 does come with some more polish.
01:14:26 <wschaub> well, thanks anyway. I will see what I can do with those backup/log files.
01:14:43 <Antisoche> Okay, good luck. Sorry I didn't know more.
01:17:54 <wschaub> Yeah, well nothing is ever easy for me. I'm always having to deal with quirky software. I just hate having to do it when i'm doing my books.
01:18:26 <Antisoche> It sounds like you and I are fighting the same current
01:19:23 <wschaub> I wouldn't mind improving things but when i saw how the reports were written it scared me away. I'm more of a Perl/Python/C guy and those ugly scheme files made my eyes bleed.
01:20:06 <Antisoche> I looked at some tutorials so I have a very crude understanding of what's going on.
01:20:25 <Antisoche> It reminds me of a more complicated version of PostScript, and I was not really a fan of writing PostScript. :)
01:20:45 <wschaub> Yeah, postscript is very much write only.
01:21:12 <Antisoche> I used to feel that way about perl.
01:21:37 <wschaub> I only did one postscript project ever. and it involved overriding the draw page operator to draw a watermark on each page in an unregistered version of some software we never shipped.
01:21:56 <wschaub> forth is interesting but I don't think I want to spend my days writing it.
01:22:14 <wschaub> I actually like perl though.
01:22:19 <Antisoche> Funny enough - I use my PostScript skills these days to remove watermarks from pages 8-D
01:23:12 <Antisoche> I appreciate perl. I can't say I love it, and I'm not sure I even like it, but it's just so damn useful.
01:23:41 <wschaub> CPAN is the main reason I love Perl. but I'm more of a sysadmin type.
01:24:22 <wschaub> that and the great online documentation.
01:24:35 <Antisoche> I never used perl much as a sysadmin, but then I went to a telecom company that insisted I use it.
01:24:54 <Antisoche> The docs are excellent. And generally easy to find.
01:25:09 * Antisoche peers around the channel...
01:25:23 <wschaub> the DBI is pretty nifty too. I do a lot of database mangling with perl.
01:26:28 <Antisoche> But of course. There it's a natural.
01:27:06 <Antisoche> I'd become quite appreciative of dia and tedia2sql.
01:27:38 <Antisoche> And then the ruby-esque ORM for perl that I can't think of right now...
01:28:19 <Antisoche> Most of what I'd done with it lately was scraping HTML. I need to get back to that if I can ever get my finances in order...
01:32:01 <wschaub> anyway I'm sure I'm way off topic now. have a good one.
01:32:25 <Antisoche> you too
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02:03:28 <Antisoche> Oh frabjous day! I've gotten 1 account up to date ... until tomorrow when my February statement is published. But that's success enough to call it a night. ttfn
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03:44:41 <wschaub> Just FYI the transactions did get entered but they showed up in accounts recivable and accounts payable as type '?' and were not visible as normal transactions. threw off the balances in those accounts though. I was able to remove the bad transactions but I still have no idea what caused that.
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08:30:56 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
08:33:13 <warlord> wschaub: You cannot schedule Invoices or Bills.
08:33:26 <warlord> (asuming you mean the biz features)
08:34:55 <warlord> wschaub: the "same counter" issue was fixed for 2.4
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10:37:18 <warlord> wschaub: see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114421
10:39:08 * Antisoche wonders if the "buy/sell/div/etc" labels have any use whatsoever, or if they ever will...
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10:58:16 <warlord> I think they are mostly useful for users... but it's POSSIBLE that some reports might use them.
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11:18:40 * Antisoche really wonders why he work so hard to make his finances so difficult
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11:25:32 <Antisoche> warlord: For what it's worth, I think the patch I wrote the other day is the right thing to do.
11:25:48 <Antisoche> Any implementation issues aside...
12:21:20 <ska> Is there a way to get a vendoor report that only shows payments and total payments (1099 time).
12:27:59 <wschaub> warlord: that bug has been open since 2003....
12:28:02 <warlord> ska: You could try a Register Report on your A/P account?
12:28:26 <warlord> wschaub: I know; I'm just pointing out that it doesn't work.
12:28:57 <wschaub> any plans to ever make it work?
12:29:24 <wschaub> right now if you try to do it like I did it causes bad things to happen.
12:32:10 <warlord> Code donations are always welcome.
12:34:33 <ska> warlord: I go inside the A/P account and hit (Account Tranaction Report) an nothing happens in GC 2.2.9 r1749M
12:35:15 <warlord> ska: You want an Account Report, not Account Transaction Report
12:35:34 <ska> ok. TY
12:37:28 <warlord> You'll also want to set the View date range before running the report.
12:37:44 <warlord> .. and potentially limit the search to the desired Vendor(s)
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12:38:26 <niobos> Hi, I've been having this bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511606
12:38:31 <niobos> Since I upgraded to 2.4.0, this seems to be solved partially
12:38:48 <wschaub> I guess thats a no then... I don't really consider things like this to be minor issues. I only put up with gnucash because I don't want to have a windows VM just for doing my books. most people would just give up at this point and go back to quickbooks.
12:39:49 <niobos> i.e. the principal & intrest proposed by the SX does change, but it's lagging: I'm now getting the P&I values for month nr 2 (roughly the time I started using 2.4.0), not month 12 (which my loan is at)
12:39:51 <ska> Thanks.. that works. I didn't see a way to limit vendors though. Any ideas?
12:39:55 <warlord> niobos: what do you mean "solved partially"
12:40:12 <niobos> I assume the internal counter is lagging behind; is there a way to bump it?
12:40:13 <warlord> ska: Edit -> Find and search by Description
12:40:56 <warlord> wschaub: I'm sure you can get triple your money back.. It's a free product, and a volunteer project.
12:41:11 <warlord> Nobody is paid to work on GnuCash
12:41:43 <warlord> niobos: Other than editing the data file, I dont know offhand. Sorry.
12:42:59 <niobos> warlord: I don't mind editing the datafile ;-)
12:43:09 <niobos> but I first wanted to verify that it is indeed a counter
12:43:14 <wschaub> wrlord: I get that, and perhaps I will look into the code when I upgrade to 2.4.x. I'm just saying more work on the business features might get you more users.
12:43:15 <niobos> and not a runtime calculation that is used
12:43:28 <niobos> and next I might need some help to find the correct bytes to change
12:43:28 <ska> warlord: TY again. that worked.. You're the best.
12:45:11 <wschaub> warlord: with the SQL backend might it be possible to write a program to insert invoices and bills external from gnucash?
12:45:26 <wschaub> I'm kind of looking forward to that 2.4 feature.
12:49:12 <warlord> wschaub: Not unless you use the GnuCash C or Python API. You cannot modify the data directly.
12:49:38 <warlord> niobos: I believe it is a counter.
12:49:41 <warlord> I'm not 100% sure.
12:49:48 <warlord> Backup your data file before futzing with it
12:50:11 <jsled> wschaub: well, you can, of course. it's just not advisable
12:52:19 <wschaub> I didn't know 2.4 even had an API for external programs to talk to gnucash.
12:52:51 <niobos> warlord: I just tried, it seems to work
12:53:00 <niobos> thx for the tip!
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12:53:48 <jsled> wschaub: the api exists probably back to 2.0.
12:53:58 <jsled> it's the same API the app uses
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12:59:07 <wschaub> jsled: looks like python bindings are new though. I will look into that. probably the quickest way to scratch my own itch.
13:06:07 <warlord> I think the bindings were in 2.2.. But I'm not 100% sure.
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13:17:57 <wschaub> the page I looked at said they were only included in the svn checkouts and had to be enabled at configure time. I doubt very much that ubuntu included them in their package. (not that that matters, I just doubt most people with < 2.4.x have the python bindings if what I read is true.)
13:18:58 <warlord> I dont know if ubuntu builds them in 2.4, either.
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13:21:47 <max> how do I setup taxes on gnucash for consulting (1099)?
13:21:47 <wschaub> if they don't I will just have to build it myself. (since I'm sticking to LTS I will have to build 2.4 anyway)
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13:48:37 <tedcx> whats the best way to merge an older gnucash with a newer?
13:51:24 <warlord> tedcx: an older gnucash ??
13:52:14 <tedcx> older accounts say for 2007 into the current which begins in 2008
13:52:35 <warlord> If you created a new data file then, sorry, there's no good way to do it.
13:53:11 <warlord> You could try something like gnucash2qif and then use the QIF importer. But there is no "import gnucash data file" importer.
13:53:32 <tedcx> looks like gnucash->qif is the only way
13:54:40 <warlord> And next time, dont start a new data file ;)
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17:56:09 <Antisoche> Does the stock split wizard change the lotting ?
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18:35:25 <mes> I'm trying to import some OFX files into gnucash. It seems to work fine, but the date of the transaction is wrong.
18:38:00 <mes> a transaction with a <DTPOSTED>20101230020000[-5:EST] tag is shown as 2010-12-29 posting date
18:38:54 <mes> is there some timezone setting in GNC that could be causing this?
18:42:37 <Antisoche> Sounds like a timezone problem
18:43:57 <Antisoche> Is your system clock and timezone correct?
18:45:01 <mes> I see this <DTPOSTED>20110130000000[-8:PST] does post as 2011-01-30
18:45:12 <mes> -8PST is the zone I'm in
18:46:36 <Antisoche> What is in your file /etc/timezone ?
18:46:41 <mes> so 20101230020000[-5:EST] is seen as 20101230230000[-8:PST] ?
18:47:04 <mes> America/Vancouver
18:47:34 <mes> oops I mean 20101229230000[-8:PST]
18:48:47 <Antisoche> Yeah, that looks like what's happening. Is the [-5] wrong?
18:49:00 <Antisoche> Should all those be -8 ?
18:49:08 <mes> visa is run from the east coast I believe
18:49:19 <mes> so that is what they put out
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18:49:50 <Antisoche> You could edit the file...
18:50:02 <Antisoche> (I assume there's no TZ correction in the importer)
18:50:41 <mes> never seen it, and editing the file would be great except for the 4 years already imported
18:52:01 * Antisoche shrugs
18:53:02 * Antisoche is in the middle of importing the past 7 years of data ... by hand
18:53:08 <mes> but I already use a assets:mystery account to handle the money after it leaves one account but does not appear in another for a few days
18:53:47 <Antisoche> Were you asking about reconciliation the other day?
18:53:53 <mes> yuck, I only have one year a receipts to import
18:53:55 <mes> no
18:54:11 <mes> might be a different mes
18:54:20 <Antisoche> I need to figure out my basis ...
18:55:04 <Antisoche> No, I'm not that great with names; someone was here asking about how reconciliation should work when, eg, you write a check but it doesn't get cashed for 2 weeks.
18:55:39 <Antisoche> It sounds like you're trying to do something similar with your holding account
18:55:47 <Antisoche> Er, mystery account
18:56:13 <mes> oh, yes the banks know what they do with it
18:57:15 <mes> and visa has a posting delay as well, so if I want to know when the purchase happened, then I meed something like this any way
18:57:40 <mes> I use it for transfers from one account to an other as well
18:58:34 <Antisoche> I don't really follow the purpose of that level of overhead, but I don't run my accounts that thin.
18:58:35 <mes> the imported never seems to be able to match a debit from one account with a credit to the other, but the mystery thing works great, as long as it goes to zero
18:59:20 <mes> and the imported seem to very well with guessing it that way
19:02:36 <mes> if the money leaves one account on the 22nd and doesn't post to the other til 25th, which account do you mess up?
19:02:53 <mes> if it's all one transaction
19:03:22 <Antisoche> My take on it is that the transaction happens when you do it. How long it takes to 'settle' is irrelevant.
19:04:54 <mes> yes but if one import statement data from the bank, and the two dates a different? what do you do?
19:05:41 <Antisoche> I can't find my example in my scrollback buffer, but I have forgotten to say that I think everyone should use GNC in Autosplit mode.
19:07:48 <mes> h'm, I've always used transaction journal
19:07:48 <Antisoche> I don't have bank imports working so I can't offer useful advise, but my example to the other person asking about reconciliation was this: In the U.S. you have to pay your taxes by April 15. The IRS considers the postmark on the envelope the date your taxes were paid. When the IRS auditor shows up, what do you want your records to reflect - that you paid your taxes on time, or that you paid your taxes when they cashed the check?
19:08:52 <Antisoche> Things are a little different when you're importing your data from online sources (I expect) but I think I'd use that example as my guiding principle.
19:08:55 <mes> right but do you want your running bank balance to not reflect what the bank says?
19:09:38 <Antisoche> Yeah - if the bank is putting holds on your deposits, for example, that seems like it would be important. I'm not sure how that works.
19:10:27 <Antisoche> My limited experience into this accounting foray is that it's not like programming - the rules are nebulous and the dates are stored in write-only volatile registers.
19:27:05 <mes> to make matters worse daylight savings time seems to cause the same problem, <DTPOSTED>20100614000000[-7:PST] shows up as the 13th of June because time is now -8
19:30:44 <Antisoche> What version of GNC are you running?
19:32:07 <Antisoche> We should all just use unixtime. <bing> The time is now, 1299198724
19:33:12 <Antisoche> Nothing that happened before 1970 is really important, anyway.
19:48:27 <mes> 2.4.2, do you know if it will change the date when DST happens again? I should have just added 12 hours to the time stamp before I imported
19:53:25 <Antisoche> I don't know anything about it, sorry.
20:37:56 * Antisoche gaks
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21:54:31 <max> does anyone know how to do basic tax stuff in gnucash?
22:00:13 <Antisoche> GnuCash isn't really a tax program, but what kind of tax stuff?
22:00:19 <Antisoche> Well, first, what country?
22:00:39 <max> the US
22:00:44 <Antisoche> ok
22:00:46 <max> I run a consulting business...
22:01:05 <max> anyways, thanks for your help with the charity situation
22:01:25 <max> I just want to have some idea of what taxes I am going to owe
22:02:53 <max> this might be another "easiar said then done" deal...
22:03:03 <max> its really just a basic 1099 Misc
22:03:09 <Antisoche> Well, you'll need to use a tax program, clearly, but GNC should be able to help with the income and expense side.
22:03:19 <Antisoche> Are you issuing a 1099?
22:03:36 <mishehu> I provide my accountant a balance sheet report, income statement, and cash flow report for the year.
22:03:40 <mishehu> he seems to be able to use those
22:04:12 <Antisoche> And sure thing, re: last night
22:45:51 <max> I am issued a 1099
22:46:54 <Antisoche> Ok - so Box 7 should equal the total of your invoices for that customer
22:49:15 <max> where is box 7?
22:49:37 <Antisoche> On your 1099
22:49:48 <Antisoche> The amount you earned
22:51:47 <max> I have to figure that out...
22:52:03 <max> I set up the charity pretty much like you told me...
22:52:16 <max> and then I realized why that is the best way to do it like that//
22:52:29 <Antisoche> If you received the 1099 that's what your customer claimed you earned
22:52:40 <max> right
22:53:12 <max> are there any open source tax programs...?
22:53:24 <Antisoche> Ok, so the number that they said you earned should equal the sum of your invoices to them.
22:54:27 <Antisoche> No tax programs that I'm aware of; I used TaxAct online. It's free, or was, or is until you decide you want to "try out" a higher plan, and then can't go back.
22:55:25 <Antisoche> There may be better things out there now, but it has all my old information.
22:55:27 <max> yeah, I get that...I just figure lets say, I need to pay 20% of that to taxes...
22:55:43 <Antisoche> Are you in the US?
22:55:55 <max> haha, yeah
22:56:09 <max> I just used that as round number...
22:56:26 <Antisoche> I don't know how much you earn, but your marginal rate is likely going to be between 25% and 36%.
22:56:45 <Antisoche> er, 33.6%
22:57:33 <max> yeah, i know...
22:57:38 <max> grrr...
22:58:01 <Antisoche> Your deductions will bring that down, and that's a graduated rate so it is lower, but you don't want to underestimate that number.
22:58:07 <max> so I guess basically, I should figure out how much I should pay and then just debit that to an expense account
22:59:29 <Antisoche> Well, it gets complicated. If you make too much via 1099 you need to pay estimated payments quarterly (I think - haven't quite gotten that far myself) and if you don't and owe too much at the end of the year, you also need to pay fees and penalties on top of that. :(
23:00:42 <Antisoche> I haven't given any thought as to how I would go about doing that it GnuCash...
23:01:22 <Antisoche> I suppose it's just a quarterly income statement before the filing deadline.
23:02:08 <Antisoche> I have no idea what % to use as an estimate though. You could do a projection or maybe just pay the higher rate as you earn it. That sounds fairer.
23:03:09 <Antisoche> The IRS actually has pretty good documentation on that, but accounting has lots of ambiguities and it doesn't help you with those at all. For example, the definition of a "minor cost" for an asset.
23:03:17 <max> my combined bracket is probably in the 25% range...
23:04:24 <Antisoche> It somewhat seems to me like accountants deal with the IRS the way layers deal with judges, if you get a real tax accountant and don't just talk to a bean counter. Again, though, my experience there to date has been minimal.
23:04:58 <max> wow, you are really a wealth of knowledge..
23:05:11 <max> I have learned more about accoutning in the past 2 days...
23:05:24 <Antisoche> I do suffer from analysis paralysis ...
23:05:42 <max> seriously, thanks...
23:06:00 <max> what do you do for a living?
23:06:24 <Antisoche> You may want to check out your local community college. I've taken a couple half-day courses for their small business program.
23:06:41 <Antisoche> I haven't really figured out what I do ...
23:06:56 <max> do you do consulting?
23:08:27 <Antisoche> I am a developer. Worked as a sysadmin at college, in R&D after that, then in telecom, and most recently developed a substantial portion of an in-flight entertainment system for several years.
23:09:17 <Antisoche> Apparently I've been a consultant for the past 10 years or so, but my last experience ended poorly and I've been taking time off. Trying to find myself, or something.
23:10:13 <Antisoche> But yeah, I do some sysadmin / development on the side for friends so have been looking into what's all involved in setting up corporate structures, etc.
23:12:07 <Antisoche> The local community college had courses for setting up a business plan, and another Q&A type with a lawyer and insurance rep, and the final one was with a tax accountant. If you have the option, I'd suggest you skip the lawyer and definitely listen to the accountant. The insurance guy is also worth listening to.
23:12:49 <Antisoche> Of course, I'm assuming you're also writing code or doing other low-liability activities. If you're like the guy in the class with me who was making sausage, you may be a bit more concerned about liability. :)
23:13:17 <max> I do system critical linux engineering...
23:13:34 <max> embedded devices, high reliablity servers...
23:13:46 <max> linux based surgical equiapment..
23:13:48 <Antisoche> What kind of embedded?
23:13:58 <max> arm
23:14:17 <Antisoche> That sounds interesting.
23:14:37 <max> I will tell you more about sometime...I have to go to bed...
23:14:42 <max> thanks for you help though..
23:14:50 <Antisoche> I really enjoyed the work - a lot of the stuff I was doing was x86, but we also had an IXP and a bunch of other stuff that was just bare metal (no OS)
23:14:51 <max> I will probably be on during the weekend...
23:15:08 <max> I am not bare metal usually...
23:15:18 <Antisoche> Yea, I need a break too ... take it easy.
23:15:29 <max> building tool chains, compiling oses
23:15:30 <max> you too