2011-03-01 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:25:03 <cinix> If I made an investment to a business, not publicly traded, what's a useful/appropriate way to record that in my personal accounts. Or what is that called so I can try and look it up. I could make it an asset investment, but it wouldn't tell me what it's really worth. As an expense it might get lost track of.
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06:36:44 <strk> payable ?
06:41:29 <krhovi> cinix, you should just use an Asset type account
06:41:35 *** krhovi is now known as kimmo
06:42:59 <kimmo> if you must see the actual value of the investment, adjust it at a later time with an Income.Appreciation -> Asset.unlisted_stock transaction
06:43:24 <cinix> ah thanks, that's what I was wondering.
06:44:05 <kimmo> although you might want to keep the "Actual Portfolio Value" tracking somewhere else...
06:44:24 <kimmo> IMO accounting is accounting, portfolio management is something else
06:45:09 <kimmo> by keeping the actual acquisition values in your books, you don't mess up tax stuff later
06:46:08 <cinix> that makes sense
06:46:55 <kimmo> that's how most listed companies keep their books
06:47:25 <kimmo> otherwise they'd end up paying tax on the value appreciation when no cash flow is materialized
06:48:50 <kimmo> and most often, if it's an unlisted company, you really have no way of telling the actual value of your stock unless you're a partner involved in the business and the company has mostly liquid assets
06:49:29 <kimmo> for listed companies, your online broker has all the unrealized gains/losses reporting and charts you'll ever need
06:49:48 <cinix> right, so keep the portfolio separate, and just log the investment as an asset and close it out at the end of the year
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10:46:58 <warlord> I hate mailman password day. I get hundreds of bounces from gnucash subscribers.
10:47:13 <warlord> Maybe I should figure out how to turn on verp in sendmail.
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11:04:29 <Antisoche> Aren't you supposed to unsubscribe them?
11:04:41 <warlord> I'm not going to do it manually..
11:04:51 <warlord> I'm just going to turn on VERP and have mailman do it.
11:04:55 <Antisoche> That's what 'verp' is for?
11:05:00 <Antisoche> ok
11:05:46 * Antisoche has never managed mailman, and the first time he had to modify a sendmail config he ran to Exim.
11:08:58 <warlord> I didn't have to touch sendmail.
11:09:07 <warlord> sendmail handles VERP-format messages.
11:09:17 <warlord> I just had to turn it on in mailman, which I think I just did.
11:09:28 <warlord> Now just waiting for the next message to come in.
11:11:26 <Antisoche> Well, I'm finally installing GNC 2.4.2 ... apparently it's easier for me to install Ubuntu 11.04 and get it from there than to get it for 10.10. Sometimes I really miss Debian...
11:14:07 <sjjh3> Is there anybody with konwlege of the source out here? It's the first time for me with GnuCash source. Actually it's the first time for me with a big c-project.
11:14:07 <sjjh3> I'm looking for the main menu, because I like to find the code for the hbci-stuff.
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11:14:39 <warlord> sjjh3: what exactly are you trying to do? (the HBCI is in the AqBanking module in src/import-export/aqbanking)
11:15:16 <sjjh3> warlord: helping out implementing standing orders, see: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642123
11:16:06 <sjjh3> first step I wanted to do is to explorer the dialogues and so on that are alredy implemented
11:16:07 <warlord> sjjh3: does AqBanking support it now?
11:16:35 <sjjh3> warlord: afaik it does: Referring http://www.aquamaniac.de/sites/aqbanking/overview.php this feature is already build in into AqBanking.
11:17:27 <sjjh3> I checked out GnuCash source with eclipse and subclipse and now I'm a bit lost. :)
11:18:31 <sjjh3> I've heared that I may have to go throug scheme, which I don't know yet.
11:18:44 <warlord> No, shouldn't need scheme at all.
11:18:51 <warlord> AqB module is all C
11:18:56 <sjjh3> even better :-D
11:19:04 <sjjh3> Yeah, but GnuCash menu
11:19:55 <warlord> the gnucash menu is pieced together from lots of places. The AqB module plugs its own entries in.
11:20:28 <sjjh3> As it is already possible to post normal orders via hbci, I thought it would be a good start to have a look in all sourcecode needet for that to get some knowledge.
11:21:18 <sjjh3> And as there is a menu entry to trigger that, I thougt if I can find this entry, I may find the rest of the code. :-)
11:21:56 <sjjh3> maybe that's a wrong way...
11:22:24 <warlord> sjjh3: As I said, it's in src/import-export/aqbanking
11:22:33 <warlord> The menu itself is dynamic.
11:22:59 <sjjh3> I see.
11:23:27 <sjjh3> I thought the dialogue to create the order you want to place would belong to GnuCash and not to AqBanking.
11:24:01 <warlord> I'm not sure
11:24:49 <sjjh3> I imagined that AqB would not come into play before you press the button "execute now".
11:25:15 <sjjh3> But I'l have a look first of all to the dir you pointed me out.
11:26:31 <warlord> No, AqB provides lots of it..
11:27:47 <sjjh3> yeah, I think I found it.
11:29:00 <sjjh3> Where can I find the doxygen documentation for it? Or better askey, what's the way to find it? I had a look at http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/ but didn't find it.
11:29:13 <sjjh3> Do I have to use the "file"-tab?
11:30:11 <sjjh3> to answer my question: this is definitely a way to do it. :) But therefore I first of all have to know where to look.
11:31:20 <warlord> 'find | grep' is your friend.
11:32:24 <jsled> s/find|grep/ack/
11:32:28 <jsled> :)
11:33:45 <warlord> LOL
11:33:53 <sjjh3> ^^
11:41:13 <warlord> jsled: ping?
11:41:17 <jsled> pong
11:41:24 <sjjh3> another question: For the gui Glade is used, I've heared. But if I want to open a glade-file, glade complaines about a missing gnome-cataloge. Where can I geht it and where do I have to put it? (using xubuntu 10.10)
11:41:35 <warlord> jsled: pm?
11:41:45 <jsled> sure
11:41:59 <warlord> sjjh3: you probably need the glade-gnome package, or something like that
11:42:15 <sjjh3> ok, I will search synaptic for it
11:44:38 <sjjh3> gosh, 34 new packages to install glade-gnome... here we go...
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12:02:16 <sjjh3> now it works. thx
12:02:29 <warlord> no worries
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12:41:09 <Antisoche> 2.4 isn't really much better wrt tracking basis. :(
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13:16:09 <Antisoche> Wow I do not understand "Use Trading Accounts"
13:17:27 <warlord> Have you read the docs?
13:17:57 <Antisoche> I'm trying. It looks like the help system is crashing, and google only returns stuff from 2005 :-p
13:18:30 <warlord> Antisoche: www.gnucash.org
13:18:32 <jsled> Antisoche: the docs at http://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml are the latest docs, same or newer than the help system
13:19:00 <jsled> And, yes, no one has seriously maintained the docs for a number of years
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13:19:40 <Antisoche> The online HTML doesn't have a search feature... wait
13:21:56 <Antisoche> apparently google only indexed the mailing list
13:25:14 <Antisoche> It looks like it's not documented. http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.4/C/gnucash-help/ch04s02.html#AccTree-menus lists Properties but there's no link. This is where the Trading Accounts checkbox is.
13:26:15 <Antisoche> But maybe someone can help me understand.
13:27:24 <Antisoche> I had an entry where I got 4.64 shares at price X. I gained 4.64 STK for some dollar amount, which was credited to "Dividend Income".
13:30:17 <Antisoche> Okay ... I had turn turn off the show only "Leaf Node" option. It's not doing what I thought.
13:34:41 <Antisoche> What would be really nice is if the Account being assigned was displayed right-aligned in the register, instead of left alligned.
13:35:09 <Antisoche> Sorry, it is in 2.4
13:35:11 <Antisoche> Nice
13:45:25 <Antisoche> I still don't understand what the purpose of Trading Accounts it, but it doesn't look like it helps me calculate basis.
13:46:24 <warlord> It's to give you cap gain/loss computation.
13:46:33 <Antisoche> Or handle stock sales, generally. Basis may not be what I'm looking for specifically.
13:47:45 <Antisoche> The "View Lots...Scrub" seems to be pretty close to what I want, but I need to figure out how to use it.
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13:57:40 <Antisoche> Once I've done a "Edit->Find" how do I change the search options?
14:14:04 <warlord> Do you want to refine the search or start over?
14:14:17 <warlord> If you C-f from the search results it should let you refine the search.
14:14:21 <Antisoche> When I scrub my stock accounts, it dumps all the gains and losses into "Orphaned Gains". In that account, I want to know which gains came from which stocks. The description simply says "Realized Gain/Loss". So I do an Edit->Find, search by Account type, and put in the stock account, but the results are always empty. (a) why? (b) can I modify the search?
14:14:29 <warlord> (I say "should" -- that doesn't mean it does)
14:15:46 <Antisoche> When I Ctrl+F it brings up the search window, but my old settings are gone.
14:16:19 <warlord> Yes, that's true.
14:16:27 <warlord> It doesn't save your settings per-se, just the resulting query.
14:16:44 <warlord> It's a one-way mapping.
14:17:40 <Antisoche> Okay, so if I had 3 criteria -- say, start date, end date, and account -- and I just wanted to change the account, I'm pretty much out of luck.
14:17:50 <warlord> Yes.
14:18:00 <warlord> There's no way to get it to re-display your criteria
14:20:29 <Antisoche> What does searching by account mean? If I select search by account - match any account - and pick the account that I'm searching, the search window returns nothing.
14:21:29 <Antisoche> Gaar. Not true. A new search from the account works.
14:22:45 * Antisoche is getting frustrated. :(
14:23:54 <warlord> I'm still not sure I understand your issue here..
14:24:08 <warlord> (note that the Find function is context-dependent, based on where you start the Find)
14:24:12 <Antisoche> So, I'm in "Orphaned Gains" and there's a bunch of transactions between it and "STK". I do a search from that account for Account "STK". The result is an empty set.
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14:24:55 <Antisoche> From the resultant search, I Ctrl+F and select "New Search" and select Account = "Orphaned Gains". It also returns an empty set.
14:25:24 <Antisoche> But if I search for Account = "Orphaned Gains" from Orphaned Gains, I get all the transactions.
14:26:21 <warlord> I think part of the issue is a confusion between transactions and splits.
14:27:11 <warlord> Try (from CoA) Find -> All Accounts [ Matches all Accounts ] and then choose the Orphaned Gains and STK accounts.
14:30:16 <Antisoche> Well, that works. Shouldn't I also be able to search from "Orphaned" though? The way Scrub works is to make a transaction between those two accounts (with an empty split to "Imbalance")
14:30:23 <warlord> The issue here is that when you have the Orphan account open, you're really looking at a set of Splits. But those splits have the Orphan account. When you search for another account you're basically making a query that says: Split->Account == Orphan AND Split->Account == STK.. Which is going to always be empty.
14:31:05 <warlord> Unfortunately there is no "search on other split account" criteria.
14:31:23 <warlord> Also keep in mind that the search really is searching on SPLITS, not Transactions.
14:34:34 <Antisoche> When I'm in an Account the search is performed on splits, correct?
14:35:14 <Antisoche> Because an Account itself is really just a search on splits.
14:35:17 <warlord> Yes, but it's performed on the splits that are attached to that account, not the 'other' splits in the transaction.
14:35:34 <warlord> Correct
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14:41:08 <Antisoche> Hmm, but I can't Edit->Find and say Delete from the current search, Accounts != STK
14:42:08 <Antisoche> Do you know if the "View Lots" is a .scm script or is it coded in C ?
14:42:17 <warlord> Because the list you're searching from already has Split->Account == Orphan
14:42:48 <warlord> The STK is the account of the *other* split, which isn't a result of the query
14:44:29 <gary> If I buy something like I computer for my business, do I use Assets -> Equipment -> Computer Equipment as my expense account, rather than Expenses -> Purchases -> Equipment?
14:44:53 <Antisoche> I think I get it. That's a rather user-unfriendly exposure of the internals though, imho.
14:46:08 <warlord> Antisoche: the confusion is that the basic transaction view shows the 'other split account' in the transfer column. Instead, you need to think of the query as searching for split-lines in an expanded journal mode view.
14:46:27 <warlord> gary: probably -- but you should ask your accountant. It depends on depreciation.
14:47:09 <Antisoche> gary: I've been told that an Asset is anything with a lifetime >1 yr. So a computer would be an asset. From there you can depreciate it's value over time. However, in the U.S. you don't have to declare Assets if their cost is "minor". You can section 179 anything under $500k but you should still list it as an asset. There's no definition of "minor" so an accountant could be helpful here.
14:47:58 <Antisoche> warlord: Yeah, I get it now. It just seems like a restriction that shouldn't be exposed to the user.
14:49:50 <Antisoche> gary: FWIW, I declared anything under $150 "minor", but this is my first year filing these sorts of things so I have yet to prove my assumptions...
14:50:03 <warlord> Antisoche: how would you suggest NOT exposing it?
14:51:01 <gary> ok, thanks people
14:51:19 <Antisoche> warlord: I think that people think in terms of transactions, and as that's what's displayed, the search should be performed at the higher level.
14:51:35 <Antisoche> At least when searching on "Account".
14:52:23 <Antisoche> I guess "Account" and "All Accounts" should ignore the splits restrictions.
14:52:44 <Antisoche> Perhaps reapply them afterwards.
14:53:01 <Antisoche> (Of course, I don't know the internals; I'm just talking conceptually.)
14:53:11 <warlord> internally that's impossible.
14:53:38 <warlord> All you have is the original query (which includes the original account match) and the new criteria.
14:53:59 <warlord> But the account match in the query is really just a GUID match; and you could be matching against other types of GUIDs other than accounts.
14:54:31 <warlord> It's all very generic; you're asking for a feature that requires breaking through the generic abstractions and knowing more about the underlying data structures.
14:55:12 <Antisoche> Well, let me ask this: are there any searches from an Account, where specifying an "Account" criteria, can ever return anything useful?
14:55:41 <Antisoche> It sounds like the only possible options are either the same data set, or the empty data set.
14:56:44 <warlord> I don't know. Possibly? But there are certainly searches from the Chart of Accounts where it can return something useful.
14:57:06 <warlord> .. and it's the same dialog from both -- the only difference is the starting Query
14:57:16 <Antisoche> Granted, but that's not what we're talking about.
14:58:00 <Antisoche> From the chart of account is there a "starting Query"? Can we set a flag and alter the dialog (or its behavior) is there is a "starting Query"?
14:58:04 <warlord> ah., but we are.. there's no way to differentiate between refining a random search result and refining an account register.
14:58:31 <warlord> i.e., there's no way to know if the starting query has an account match or not.
15:00:40 <Antisoche> I don't understand why that information can't be made available.... Ctrl+F from an account page gives the dialog a data set, true? From the CoA is there also a non-null data set?
15:01:15 <warlord> It's not given a Data Set, it's given a QofQuery*
15:01:52 <warlord> The QofQuery will return a data set (which may or may not be empty, but that's somewhat irrelevant).
15:02:19 <warlord> The QofQuery is an abstract construct, and has no knowledge of the underlying data structures that are being queried.
15:02:38 <warlord> There's not an easy way to ask a Query "is there an account match query term?"
15:03:56 <Antisoche> Hmm. Well, this is all very informative and interesting, but I'm straying from my task at hand ... :)
15:06:35 <Antisoche> I think what I need is a slightly improved "View Lots..." feature
15:07:30 <warlord> Perhaps.
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15:28:56 <Antisoche> Crapwich. It still doesn't account for expenses. :(
15:35:47 <warlord> Why is it so hard to just include those expenses by hand?
15:35:58 <warlord> You only need it for taxes..
15:39:20 <Antisoche> It looks like that may be an option, it's just not ideal.
15:41:29 <warlord> It might save you a little frustration.
15:41:32 <warlord> ;-)
15:41:49 <Antisoche> I don't think so .... is there something special about bonds I should know?
15:43:31 <Antisoche> I'm going insane over here.
15:45:14 <Antisoche> I'm trying to setup an example. I'm using the "Bond" account. I bought 10 bonds @ price 1. I got a dividend and got 0.5 shares at price 1. Now I'm trying to sell them. I create an entry to sell 10.5 shares at price 1.5. I hit tab to let it calculate the value. It changes it to selling 15.75 shares at 1.
15:46:01 <Antisoche> No matter what I do it insists the price is 1.
15:47:44 <warlord> Try -10.5 shares
15:48:00 <Antisoche> I do.
15:48:21 <Antisoche> It asks me what I want to recalculate. I say "Price" and it changes the number of shares and sets the price to 1
15:48:28 <warlord> So you type: -10.5 <tab> 1.5 <tab> <tab> ??
15:48:50 <Antisoche> And it says "Shares = 15.75, Price = 1"
15:48:56 <Antisoche> I'm restarting.
15:49:08 <Antisoche> This is 2.4.2 under Linux
15:49:16 <warlord> Ah, but you are telling it you want to recalculate price, so... yeah, it's getting confused.
15:49:38 <Antisoche> Whatever I tell it to recalculate, it set the price to 1.
15:49:54 <Antisoche> I initally left the price blank, only putting in shares and a value.
15:51:06 <warlord> huh
15:51:31 <Antisoche> Still does it: Shares=-10.5, tab, delete price=1, tab buy, sell=15, tab. Now Shares=-15, Price=1
15:51:53 <warlord> Ah, your problem is deleting the price=1. Don't do that. Don't touch that cell at all.
15:52:30 <warlord> Type: -10.5 <tab> <tab> -<value>
15:52:40 <warlord> (and then another tab)
15:52:45 <Antisoche> Ok, now is says it's inconsistent. I changed the number of shares. What do I want to recalculate. Price is selected.
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15:53:20 <GitHub22> gnucash: master Cristian Marchi * 6a1b14d (1 files in 1 dirs): Improved French translation by Sebastien Daniel.
15:53:21 <Antisoche> -10.5 shares, price is 1, Sell is 15. I want price to adjust.
15:53:22 <GitHub22> gnucash: master Cristian Marchi * f4a9a2d (1 files in 1 dirs): Updated Traditional Chinese translation by Kuang-che.
15:53:25 <GitHub22> gnucash: master Cristian Marchi * e85d251 (2 files in 2 dirs): Add Traditional Chinese translation for win32 package system.
15:53:28 <GitHub22> gnucash: master commits 4b63767...e85d251 - http://bit.ly/foES6q
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15:55:36 <Antisoche> Okay, given what I just described ... Recalculate Shares, I get "-15/1/15" (as expected). Recalculate Price, I get "-15/1/15". Recalculate Value, I get "-10.5/1/10.5" (as expected).
15:57:59 <Antisoche> I went into "Edit Account" and set the frace to 1/100000 and the color to brown. Neither option seems to have done anything.
15:58:04 <Antisoche> face=fraction
15:58:52 <Antisoche> Ah - it's using USD as the currency.
15:59:07 <Antisoche> Instead of some symbol.
15:59:43 <warlord> Oh, I bet you created the stock account through the hierarchy druid>
15:59:43 * Antisoche goes to weep into his coffee
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16:00:45 <Antisoche> I suppose so. I didn't create my own 'bond' account.
16:01:19 <warlord> Oh, yeah, that's a known bug. Sorry I didn't think to mention it; most people just create those accounts by hand in which case it forces them to set a non-currency commodity
16:05:00 <Antisoche> Ok. Now that I'm trading in templates it works much better.
16:05:18 <warlord> There you go
16:05:28 <warlord> Sorry, I should've recognized the symptom earlier.
16:07:43 <Antisoche> Is that druid bug fixed?
16:07:58 <Antisoche> I expect most people use that to setup a CoA
16:08:09 <warlord> Nope..
16:08:18 <warlord> And no, most people do NOT use that to add new stock accounts.
16:08:48 <Antisoche> That's not what I said. I set to setup a CoA. Like the first time someone wants to get started with GNC.
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16:09:29 <warlord> Right, but generally that doesn't include stocks
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16:11:14 <Antisoche> Bond, actually, but let's say that it's not really clear that that's supposed to be a Placeholder account, unless that's been changed.
16:11:23 <warlord> There is no "Bond" account type
16:11:44 <Antisoche> There was when I ran it...
16:12:33 <Antisoche> Oh, I see what you mean. The druid created an account, without a placeholder check, called "Bond". That's what I was using. Yes, it is of type "Stock".
16:13:44 <warlord> The issue is that the druid does not enforce the "Stock/Mutual accounts must have a non-currency security" requirement. I do not know if there is a bug for that.
16:15:53 <Antisoche> I actually like that bug because it makes subordinate accounts default to "Stock", whereas the one I created forces me to pick something nonsensical.
16:16:20 <Antisoche> ...as the currency. Or, have subordinate types not default to stock.
16:16:42 <warlord> ??
16:16:49 <Antisoche> If I understand what's happening correctly. I haven't really been paying that much attention to that particular aspect though.
16:17:08 <warlord> I dont understand your issue.. Accounts of type Stock and Mutual *MUST* have a non-currency commodity, or data entry fails.
16:17:24 <warlord> The placeholder account can be of type 'Asset'
16:18:15 <warlord> Moreover, sub-accounts under a Stock don't have to be type Stock -- they can be any asset (or liability) type
16:18:37 <warlord> @op linas
16:18:39 <gncbot> warlord: Error: linas is not in #gnucash.
16:18:58 <Antisoche> The Druid "Stock" is of type Stock and Commodity USD. A bug, I know. But if I right-click and say "New Account", the new account defaults to type "Stock". When I create an account "Stock", I have to give it a symbol, even if it's just a placeholder.
16:19:58 <Antisoche> So if I make it type "Asset" and then right click->New, the new account defaults to "Asset" instead of "Stock".
16:20:52 <warlord> That is true.
16:21:09 <warlord> Perhaps this can be fixed by making the Stock from the druid into a placeholder.
16:22:06 <Antisoche> Or if anything specified as a placeholder is exempt from that logic
16:22:29 <Antisoche> Currently, placehold disables the type selector.
16:22:48 <Antisoche> Nope, I take that back.
16:23:29 <Antisoche> I don't know why I thought that.
16:32:27 <warlord> dunno
16:35:26 <Antisoche> So am I assuming correctly that the reason the account report for a stock doesn't include commissions and fees is the same reason that you can't search for "Account" matches from within an account?
16:36:41 <Antisoche> Or should it be fairly straightforward to add something like that to a report?
16:37:33 <warlord> I dont know.
16:37:53 <warlord> I think it should be relatively straightforward. I'm seriously surprised that the Advanced Portfolio doesn't do it.
16:40:12 * Antisoche hmms
16:40:54 <warlord> The Adv Port report should include commission fees.
16:41:31 <warlord> Do you have "ignore brokerage fees" selected in the Adv Port report options?
16:41:53 <warlord> there's an option, "Ignore brokerage fees when calculating returns"
16:42:06 <Antisoche> No, but I'm trying to think why I didn't think this was sufficient.
16:42:25 <warlord> And it defaults to true.
16:42:41 <Antisoche> Yeah, that's new in 2.4
16:43:18 <warlord> Well, 2.2 doesn't matter; there's never going to be another 2.2 release.
16:43:24 <Antisoche> I like the looks of that better.
16:43:45 <Antisoche> Well, 2.2 matters in that that's what I'd been using. :-P
16:44:38 <Antisoche> So the only problem that I see now is that these have to be broken down into long-term and short-term gains/losses.
16:45:24 <Antisoche> And that it doesn't look like this handles partial sales (eg, buy 200, sell 100)
16:46:01 <warlord> That's probably true.. GnuCash is an accounting package, not a stock trading app.
16:46:20 <Antisoche> I thought I had it figured out by going into the account and filtering by a date range.
16:47:19 <Antisoche> Actually, what I was thinking is it'd be so much easier if "View Lots" put the symbol, date, and share count in the description instead of just "Realized Gain/Loss".
16:47:53 <Antisoche> "Realized Gain/Loss on 0.456 STK, 2001/01/01"
16:48:13 <Antisoche> Something like that. Date probably not helpful in the description though.
16:49:47 <warlord> Ah, but you can determine where it came from based on viewing the particular lot entries.
16:50:42 <Antisoche> Not really because the only thing it puts in the transaction is a dollar profit or loss.
16:51:28 <warlord> You misunderstand. By looking at the LOT you can see the transactions that are tied together (the purchase and all the (partial) sales)
16:52:00 <Antisoche> You're talking about in the "View Lots" window, right?
16:52:57 <warlord> No, that just shows you the list of lots in an account. I mean actually viewing the splits/transactions that comprise a particular lot
16:53:39 <warlord> Er, perhaps the mini-viewer might have it.
16:53:53 <Antisoche> I think you're thinking of the mini-viewer
16:54:40 <Antisoche> The register (AFAIK) only lists transactions (or splits associated with an account...) It doesn't tie back to the purchase.
16:55:46 <Antisoche> If the scrubbing put everything in one transaction that would be good for a manual inspection - but it breaks all the lots out, and then puts each capital gain or loss as its own transaction. And that transaction is just a dollar amount with no symbol or share count information.
16:56:40 <warlord> Yes, I understand that. The Lot ties the purchase, sale, and gain/loss together.
16:57:01 <Antisoche> ok. So I guess I want a "Lot Report"...
17:01:08 <Antisoche> Well, no. Because I still want to capture the fees.
17:01:45 <warlord> Well, the fees should be part of the purchase split transaction.
17:02:11 <Antisoche> It is, but "Lot 0" only has the cost of the security, not the fee as well.
17:02:18 <warlord> A theoretical report should include them.
17:02:31 <warlord> Right, but the transaction that opened Lot 0 would.
17:02:46 <Antisoche> yes, it is in the transaction.
17:03:03 <Antisoche> I guess my point was that a report based solely on lots won't pick up the fees.
17:03:13 <warlord> Of course not.
17:03:22 * Antisoche is getting confused again
17:03:46 <warlord> well, I'm heading out for a while...
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17:10:35 <jsled> Oh, I'm so sure the new wiki user "Badcreditcarloans20" is going to be adding totally legitimate content to the wiki.
17:10:53 <jsled> oh, wait, already did: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ&diff=7140&oldid=prev
17:19:35 <Antisoche> I always wondered about that.
17:24:54 <jsled> wondered about what?
17:27:01 <Antisoche> How to handle car loans with high interest rates in GNC
17:27:34 <Antisoche> Now that's it been added to the FAQ, we're all set...
17:35:57 <Antisoche> Aha - here's the problem with Advanced Portfolio: Once you've sold off all the stock it no longer shows up on the list.
17:38:01 <Antisoche> ... which means that I must click a button to "Include accounts with no shares".
17:39:05 <Antisoche> Well ... it appears that whatever problem I may have, it's not with GnuCash. :-/
17:55:43 <Antisoche> So my issue then remains separating long term vs. short term holdings.
17:56:51 * Antisoche thinks he's back where he started.
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18:23:48 <warlord> Antisoche: the problem is that long v. short term definition is very locale-specific.
18:24:26 <Antisoche> warlord: I think I disagree. The problem is that I cant identify the necessary transactions by date.
18:24:38 <Antisoche> Without doing them manually.
18:25:56 <warlord> Well, you need to work backwards from your sale transactions. For each sale you need to put it into a short/long bucket (or potentially more buckets depending on your locale).
18:27:05 <Antisoche> Agreed. I have an account "capital gains, long" and "cg, short". But when I go through the autogenerated gains, the only information I have is a dollar amount.
18:27:37 <Antisoche> So if I can get the ticker and share quantity in that transaction, I can manually classify it proerly.
18:28:06 <Antisoche> Getting that out of the system again, though ... I haven't fully figured out yet.
18:28:18 <Antisoche> It sounds like lots of subaccounts.
18:30:19 <Antisoche> engine/cap-gains.c:955 looks like the magic spot, I just need to figure out how to probe transactions
18:30:31 <warlord> Um, if you view the cap gain accounts in journal mode you'll be able to see the "other" account.
18:31:18 <Antisoche> Are you going to send me off in circles again?
18:31:31 <warlord> I never send anyone in circles.
18:31:47 <warlord> If you have a cap-gain/loss transaction then the other end must be the stock.
18:33:11 <Antisoche> I have a capgain transaction in my stock register that says "1.66". This is in dollars. In the transaction where I sold the shars, there is no transaction denominated in dollars, only those denominated in shares.
18:34:04 <Antisoche> Is the 1.66 transaction the 2.1044 split in the sale? The 1.5205 split? I have no idea.
18:34:07 <warlord> The cap-gain should have the same date as the sale.
18:34:19 <warlord> I dunno -- can you show me a screen shot?
18:34:21 <Antisoche> All cap gains have the same date, yes.
18:34:33 <warlord> Do you have multiple sales on the same date?
18:34:40 <warlord> .. of the same stock?
18:34:57 <Antisoche> easiest way to send a screen shot is?
18:35:04 <warlord> imagebin ?
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18:35:25 <jsled> skitch.com claims some privacy, if that's important to you. ymmv.
18:36:15 <Antisoche> dcc?
18:36:52 * warlord shrugs; I guess dcc would be okay
18:37:47 <Antisoche> Apparently Quassel can't do dcc
18:39:55 <Antisoche> http://imagebin.org/140682
18:42:09 <Antisoche> Does that help to clarify?
18:42:54 <warlord> Okay, so you have 3 transactions dated March 1? Or is there a 4th that's off the screen?
18:43:09 <Antisoche> There is one for every "sell" in that split.
18:44:01 <Antisoche> "View Lots"->Scrub created that. I started with a single "Sell" transaction.
18:44:06 <warlord> Okay.
18:44:59 <warlord> So ... what's the question? From the Orphaned Gains-USD account you can see that all those transactions apply to EWZ
18:45:39 <warlord> But yes, for each one you'll need to determine whether it's a short or long term cap gain, and for THAT I suspect you'll need to use the View Lots mini-viewer
18:45:40 <Antisoche> So my thinking is that if the capgain told me what number of shares each entry represented, I could classify them long-term or short-term manually.
18:46:05 <Antisoche> Or just the date
18:46:27 <warlord> Ah, the date of the buy.. See, that information *is* available.... in the LOT.
18:46:40 <warlord> The LOT will link the sale and cap-gain to the purchase.
18:46:57 <warlord> So that info should be available in the lot viewer.
18:47:21 <warlord> Is it not?
18:48:11 <Antisoche> It is available, but that viewer is not a reasonable way to perform this function.
18:50:52 <Antisoche> http://imagebin.org/140685
18:51:53 <warlord> Why not? It looks like all the info you need it in the lot viewer
18:53:05 <Antisoche> Because it would be easier to have 2000 abacuses laying around my office than to jump through hoops like that.
18:53:27 <Antisoche> Exactly what is the sort algorithm on that thing, rand() ?
18:54:23 <warlord> I do not know what order it is.. Try clicking on a column heading?
18:54:29 <Antisoche> No effect
18:54:43 <Antisoche> I'm already clicking on the transaction in the bottom of the mini-viewer
18:54:45 <warlord> :( Sorry.
18:55:04 <Antisoche> All I need is the date in the description.
18:55:15 <warlord> But my point is that all the data you need *is* in there.. The report just isn't written to extract it all.
18:55:31 <Antisoche> If I don't break the cap gains out into individual accounts, I then only need the ticker.
18:55:37 <warlord> You don't need that; the info you need can be obtained from the lot. Storing it a second time is just wrong.
18:55:49 <Antisoche> (That's not entirely true, but I expect it will work for me)
18:59:31 <Antisoche> ... it's like putting your money into somebody else's bank account. All the money's there, you just can't get it.
19:00:02 <Antisoche> :p
19:01:18 <warlord> not quite.. the data is there, and you CAN get it .. it's just not in a convenient form that you can understand, and not in the form you want it in. But it's there.
19:01:32 <warlord> One could write a report ..
19:01:59 <Antisoche> ... so: would it be the case that I really want to enter two transactions ... 1 for long term securities, the other for short term?
19:02:34 <Antisoche> The number of long-term shares I have is pretty easy to see.
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19:05:04 <warlord> i dont think so,
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19:11:56 <Antisoche> That works out kinda nicely until I scrub the lots; the report is also unchanged. It seems like the easy thing may be to move the short term securities into another account.
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19:16:50 <warlord> yeah, well, either you embrace Lots or you dont.
19:16:54 <warlord> There's no middle ground.
19:17:26 <Antisoche> I would love to if they gave me the information I needed...
19:18:37 <warlord> like I said, the information is all there; it's just not displayed in a convenient way
19:21:15 <warlord> For any sale transaction split, you determine the purchase by doing split->lot->opening_split->parent->post_date
19:22:24 <Antisoche> In code?
19:22:53 <warlord> yes
19:22:56 <warlord> (or in a report)
19:23:04 <warlord> This information is already displayed in the lot viewer.
19:26:08 <Antisoche> Manually moving the short term assets into their own account works rather awesomely.
19:26:37 <warlord> provided you didn't accidentally un-reconcile anything.
19:27:12 <Antisoche> ?
19:28:14 <Antisoche> I made a new account "EWZ (short)" as a subaccount of "EWZ", then in my "DRIP" transactions I changed the account from "EWZ" to "EWZ (short)". Then I just created two sale transactions, one in each account.
19:28:54 <Antisoche> It shows up on the "Advnaced Portfolio" report as two separate entries, just like I have to file it. I have to do a bit of math for the fees, but that's very doable.
19:29:13 <warlord> Hopefully you didn't unreconcile the purchase txn when you moved it.
19:29:47 <Antisoche> I assume you're referring to the "n/c" selector column...?
19:29:56 <Antisoche> Right now I have everything 'n'd
19:30:28 <Antisoche> But that's fairly easy to check/correct, no?
19:31:39 <warlord> technically it's n/c/y
19:32:04 <Antisoche> I moved a transaction from "bond" into "EWZ (short)" and the 'c' came along with it.
19:32:10 <warlord> But if you've never reconciled anything then I guess you have nothing to worry about.
19:32:28 <warlord> Yeah, it would only have been an issue if you reconciled, converting the c to y
19:33:37 <Antisoche> How do I make it a 'y'?
19:34:39 <Antisoche> Ah, there it goes...
19:34:49 <warlord> run the reconcile process
19:35:21 <Antisoche> The 'y' comes along for the ride, but it does warn you about changing it.
19:37:03 <warlord> k
19:41:49 <Antisoche> Well, thanks again for all your help - I really appreciate it, even if it seemed circuitous.
19:42:34 <Antisoche> Sorry for taking up so much of your time. Once I finally get my taxes done I'll see if there's some way I can help to contribute back.
19:43:08 <Antisoche> For some reason I expect a patch to duplicate data won't be terribly appreciated. :)
19:44:05 <Antisoche> But I still have some splits and spinoffs to handle, so I probably won't wander too far...
19:44:59 <warlord> A better solution is a report that pulls all the information together.
19:45:51 <warlord> Duplicated data is bad because then you need to keep it in sync if something changes. Whereas references between the objects let you change the data once and pull it together as-needed.
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19:54:30 <GitHub170> gnucash: master Christian Stimming * 0673ea3 (1 files in 1 dirs): Fix typo in German translation
19:54:30 <GitHub170> gnucash: master J. Alex Aycinena * ef86323 (3 files in 1 dirs): Modify Tax Info on Account Page to display or not display sub-account info based on whether row is expanded. ...
19:54:33 <GitHub170> gnucash: master commits e85d251...ef86323 - http://bit.ly/i7FhyG
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