2011-02-22 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:18:22 <strk> we are on irc.gimp.org aren't we ?
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08:38:24 <nanotube> hey did i miss anything? where are the channel logs?
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08:45:40 <strk> nanotube: you missed just me asking if we aren't on irc.gimp.org already :)
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09:32:17 <nanotube> strk: ah heh... i connected to irc.gnome.org. guess the two dns entries point to the same ip. :)
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09:33:29 <nanotube> so... no suggestions for defining a custom currency eh? guess the best way is to just pick XXX currency and use it as placeholder?
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09:50:26 <strk> irc.gnome.org is an alias for irc.gimp.org.
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10:32:51 <bxc_> huh is the currency list fixed?
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10:57:33 <nanotube> strk: yes i have seen, by now. :)
10:57:36 <nanotube> bxc_: looks like it...
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12:21:53 <nanotube> let's say i want to change a bunch of accounts to a new currency. is there an easy way to do it, without having to do click -> edit account -> select -> .... for all the accounts?
12:30:34 <nanotube> mmm so googling reveals that gnucash is missing any kind of 'mass-change' functionality for accounts/transaction. /me very sad.
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12:37:57 <kimmo> (you could always edit the datafile, but that's not really supported)
12:38:34 <nanotube> kimmo: what's the format of the raw datafile?
12:39:28 <nanotube> seems binary. or is it actually some kind of db? sqlite or berkeley maybe?
12:39:42 <kimmo> it's just compressed XML
12:39:51 <kimmo> there's a switch in preferences to turn off the compression
12:39:59 <nanotube> ah
12:40:24 <nanotube> so just a simple sed -e 's/XXX/YYY/' would do it?
12:40:26 <kimmo> (at least if you're using the default backend)
12:40:36 <nanotube> (after gunzip)?
12:40:57 <kimmo> don't really know, never did it, lemme see
12:42:41 <kimmo> there seem to be other references than simply account properties
12:42:45 <kimmo> let me test
12:43:25 <kimmo> yeah
12:43:53 <kimmo> just remember to use the official ISO4217 currency codes
12:44:04 <kimmo> (EUR, USD, etc)
12:44:57 <nanotube> cool that can work.
12:45:06 <nanotube> while i have you here - any way to define a custom currency? :)
12:45:56 <kimmo> no, they have to be the ISO4217 ones, AFAIK
12:46:36 <kimmo> you COULD, however, use the Tools -> Security Editor to create your own Security if you want
12:46:57 <kimmo> I'm guessing you're tracking something like bitcoins or something similar that's not really standardised?
12:47:06 <nanotube> haha bitcoins - exactly :)
12:47:33 <nanotube> seems that 'normal accounts' can't be denominated in terms of custom securities though.
12:47:34 <kimmo> I'd say the easiest solution would be to pick one of the unused currencies
12:47:39 <kimmo> there's quite a few
12:47:39 <nanotube> they have to be of type 'stock'...
12:48:11 <kimmo> just take FIM, DEM, ITL, or any other EU country who's switched to the Euro
12:48:24 <kimmo> the currency codes are still valid
12:49:03 <nanotube> maybe i'll chose BTN - the closest one to BTC :D
12:49:12 <nanotube> (since i don't anticipate using BTN ever)
12:49:37 <kimmo> tsk tsk
12:49:47 <kimmo> Assumptions are the mothers of major fuck ups
12:50:06 <kimmo> I can _guarantee_ that you're 100% more likely to deal in BTN than in FIM
12:50:26 <bxc_> isn't there code for pre-EUR currenvcies to give them a fixed echange rate?
12:50:35 <nanotube> kimmo: how about xxx ?
12:50:53 <nanotube> that seems to be a good 'placeholder currency' ?
12:51:02 <kimmo> XXX isn't valid ISO4217
12:51:21 <bxc_> could you use a stock account then?
12:51:50 <kimmo> On the other hand, I am having a hard time imagining why you'd need to be bookkeeping in bitcoins
12:52:29 <bxc_> kimmo: I want to do it if anyone ever buys anythign in bitcoin for me...
12:52:32 <bxc_> from me
12:52:46 <kimmo> bxc, there was, but national treasuries have stopped accepting most forms of pre-euro currency
12:53:12 <bxc_> kimmo: I was meaning in gnucash, not in The World
12:53:24 * bxc_ vaguely remembers reading something about that
12:53:27 <bxc_> not sure what
12:53:28 <kimmo> umm, I don't think so
12:54:02 <kimmo> don't know though, I simply switched datafiles when we adopted the EURo, rather than do any magic
12:54:14 <bxc_> yeah
12:54:26 <nanotube> mm, i just think that it should be possible to define custom currencies.
12:54:45 <bxc_> nanotube: yeah it seems kinda surprising that its limited
12:54:51 <nanotube> if people want to keep accounts in terms of bitcoins, or lindendollars, or wowgold, or any of the various LETS systems... they should be able to.
12:54:51 <kimmo> it would seem awfully far fetched, considering it was (a) a one time happening, and (b) most of the devs were unaffected
12:54:54 <kimmo> heh
12:55:50 <bxc_> kimmo: yeah maybe i misremember some posting on a dev list that i found in google or something vague
12:56:05 <nanotube> kimmo: is the 'custom currency' feature at all on the horizon or some distant todolist?
12:56:27 <kimmo> (Disclaimer: I am not a gnucash dev, just a 14 year veteran user)
12:56:42 <kimmo> I would imagine not, but as Derek always says, "Patches welcome"
12:56:56 <kimmo> if you feel like coding, and it makes sense, go for it
12:56:57 <nanotube> kimmo: as far as why i'd need bookkeeping in bitcoin - a venture that has fund flows in/out in form of bitcoin, that would make sense for. :)
12:57:13 <nanotube> kimmo: haha well, guess one of these days i'll have to take a look.
12:57:38 <kimmo> sure, but do you (a) get taxed in bitcoins, or (b) have to report them anywhere, and (c) do they actually have a monetary value
12:57:50 <bxc_> nanotube: my guess is that it would be straightforward to recompile with an added currency
12:57:51 <kimmo> I'd say no, no and no
12:58:17 <nanotube> kimmo: currently trading at .84 usd/btc. so third one is definitely a yes, simply due to facts on the ground.
12:58:48 <nanotube> (a) is of course a no, but that's not an issue. (b) is... probably not 'have to' practically, but technically, yes. just like trading in any other commodity.
12:58:51 <kimmo> and what was the total to-be in circulation? like 20 mil?
12:59:01 <nanotube> yes, at current market prices.
12:59:13 <nanotube> but we don't get to 21m total bitcoins for 100+ years
12:59:23 <bxc_> nanotube: you'd have to pay tax on them as any other asset, I say
12:59:45 <nanotube> depending on how it goes as far as demand, and real economy, prices can either fall down to 0, or go up to thousands of usd per coin.
12:59:51 <nanotube> bxc_: you don't pay taxes on assets. only on profits.
13:00:03 <bxc_> nanotube: depends on your tax laws
13:00:08 <nanotube> well, real property taxes :)
13:00:10 <nanotube> and yea i guess.
13:00:14 <bxc_> nanotube: I know of at least one jurisdiction which taxes assets.
13:00:22 <nanotube> i'm happy i don't have to pay taxes on "money sitting in my pillow"
13:00:26 <kimmo> Finland used to have a flat 0,9% asset tax rate
13:00:46 <nanotube> kimmo: usa has a tax on monetary assets too. it's called inflation. :)
13:01:01 <nanotube> usually several times more than 0.9% too
13:01:02 <nanotube> heh
13:01:24 <kimmo> I'm quite familiar with US tax code having spent several years there thank you :)
13:01:33 <nanotube> hehe
13:02:04 <nanotube> 'technically' you're even supposed to pay tax if you trade a cow for a chicken. which is totally lame.
13:02:11 <kimmo> but anyway, an asset tax is not uncommon
13:02:33 <nanotube> heh i guess the countries that have it, tend to have pretty low reported asset-base ;)
13:02:40 <kimmo> only if you make a profit on the trade, tsk tsk
13:03:10 <nanotube> well, profit on the imputed market value of the cow, relative to what your cost basis is.
13:03:12 <kimmo> there were all kinds of loopholes in that tax code so it was simply abandoned
13:04:03 <nanotube> anyway... thanks for the gnucash help. off to do "stuff" :)
13:04:05 <kimmo> but the real question herein is: Since you're wasting energy and wearing down your computer while generating bitcoins for yourself, can you file for a tax deduction
13:04:08 <kimmo> heh
13:04:24 <nanotube> depreciation, sure :)
13:04:45 <kimmo> yes sir auditor sir, I'm claiming a $200 deduction for electricity used to generate 150 bitcoins
13:04:52 <kimmo> I'd love to see their face
13:04:59 <nanotube> also, just because you use bitcoins doesn't mean you generate them. but that's a separate question. ;)
13:05:10 <kimmo> yeah I know
13:05:16 <kimmo> but it's more fun that way
13:05:20 <nanotube> hehe
13:05:33 <kimmo> hey, it's kind of like printing money
13:06:53 <nanotube> more like digging gold out of the ground. ;)
13:09:29 <kimmo> not really, that's actual hard work
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13:28:48 <nanotube> haha setting up a gpu miner is hard work for the 21st century. ;)
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23:04:43 <ironcity819> hello
23:11:54 <ironcity819> can someone points me to some tutorials on how to set up SX to deduction money from my paycheck to buy mutual fund? Thanks.
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