2011-02-01 GnuCash IRC logs

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09:20:04 <Askarii> yeah
09:20:07 <Askarii> gnucash rox
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09:29:51 <gjanssens> Askarii: :)
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09:32:37 <will> I have a question on how to handle my bank statements. I imported both my checking account and credit card account data into their respective accounts.
09:33:24 <will> My question is, how should I handle transfers between accounts, for a payment for example?
09:33:29 <Askarii> mornin gjanssens
09:33:43 <jsled> will: as a transfer between accounts. :)
09:34:06 <jsled> how are you doing the import?
09:35:05 <will> The transfer is already there, it's just not linked with one another. I have the feeling I should delete the deposit and withdraw from each account and make a new transfer using the transfer tool.
09:35:33 <jsled> you can either re-use one of the imported transactions and remove the other, or delete them both and create a new one.
09:35:37 <will> file > import >.gfx
09:35:52 <jsled> you don't need to use the transfer dialog; you can enter it from the registers just fine
09:36:16 <will> ok, I was hesitant to mess with the raw data, that's how it's normally done jsled?
09:36:28 <jsled> I forget which importers do and don't have duplication-transaction detection, but that might help.
09:36:31 <jsled> "raw data"?
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09:37:38 <will> raw data meaning all the data in my "checking account" is there because it was imported through a .gfx file, rather than being generated by me.
09:38:07 <will> From my tests, it does detect duplicate transactions
09:38:16 <jsled> do you mean OFX? I'm not sure what GFX is.
09:38:54 <will> I mean .qfx
09:39:29 <jsled> I see. The importer mostly just creates transactions on your behalf; if you want to create other/different transactions, or edit the ones it creates to better reflect reality, you should feel free to do so.
09:39:40 <jsled> I don't recall that any of the importers requires the transactions is creates to be left unmodified.
09:39:57 <jsled> The importers are more of a "one-way" thing, not a "bi-directional sync" sort of deal.
09:40:25 <jsled> though both the QIF and OFX importers are stateful in terms of remembering the mapping of transactions to accounts, that you provide during the importing process.
09:41:40 <will> WOuld that make QIF and OFX a better way of importing? I just used the first one both my bank and gnucash supported
09:42:14 <jsled> QFX is "quicken OFX" … so you're using the OFX importer already, I believe.
09:42:28 <jsled> (QIF is a historical, simpler text format)
09:42:51 <will> Ahh, I see.
09:43:30 <will> I tested it out, and what you suggested seems to do what I want.
09:45:09 <will> Thanks for the help!
09:47:37 <Askarii> How large is the dev team for GnuCash?
09:51:10 <will> I think its fairly large, greater than 30, though that's a guess I'm inferring from somewhere else.
09:51:28 <Askarii> and who manages the project?
09:51:38 <Askarii> who determines what is priority etc.
09:51:59 <gjanssens> No one in particular.
09:52:15 <gjanssens> This is an open source project, everyone mostly works on what itches most.
09:52:40 <gjanssens> There is some informal coordination going on on the gnucash-devel mailing list
09:52:59 <jsled> http://www.ohloh.net/p/gnucash/contributors?query=&sort=commits&commit=Update seems pretty reasonable, in terms of recent commits
09:53:44 <Askarii> any accountants involved?
09:53:51 <Askarii> well, let me rephrase that
09:54:08 <Askarii> any business expertise/experience involved other than programmers?
09:54:41 <gjanssens> Are you volunteering ;) ?
09:55:08 <Askarii> I would like to contribute my knowledge/experience
09:55:15 <Askarii> but im by no means a dev.
09:55:57 <Askarii> What I have to offer is business experience, accounting experience and my academics in business administration. i suppose I would like to help guide GnuCash devs.
09:56:54 <will> Awesome Askarii! :)
09:57:42 <Askarii> the community has to approve my application though.
09:57:58 <Askarii> and my ideas might not necessarily fit in properly
09:58:02 <jsled> do what now? :)
09:58:13 <gjanssens> You're very welcome to do so. It never hurts to have people looking into the correctness of the accounting logic.
09:58:24 <jsled> if you want to help, sign up to the -devel mailing list, and comment on issues
09:58:39 <Askarii> where can i sign up?
09:59:01 <jsled> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo
09:59:12 <Askarii> thankyou
10:03:26 <Askarii> done
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10:15:52 <ropp1gra> Hi, I am just wondering about the exportability of data in GnuCash. I can't figure out if there is a way to export.
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10:20:08 <Askarii> hmm
10:20:38 <Askarii> have the devs. been split ito teams or is it roughly a free-for-all answering what "itches" most, as gjanssens said
10:20:39 <Askarii> ?
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10:22:14 <jsled> ropp1gra: the XML file format is relatively straightforward
10:22:40 <jsled> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Importing.2FExporting_Data might also have some leads for you
10:23:00 <jsled> Askarii: people generally work on whatever projects interest them and align with their skillset.
10:23:12 <jsled> it's much more of a collaboration than a top-down ordering
10:24:27 <ropp1gra> Thanks so much!!!
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10:33:24 <Askarii> hehe
10:33:26 <Askarii> first msg
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11:06:37 <will> Where should loan payments go, should that simply be another expense or should it be Handeled differently?
11:07:04 <jsled> will: http://code.gnucash.org/docs/guide/chapter_loans.html
11:07:30 <jsled> in short: principal payment portions are against Liabilities:Loan, interest portions against Expenses:Interest
11:09:20 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
11:10:51 <will> That makes sense, thanks. Just wrapping up the last of getting it all sorted out.
11:11:26 <warlord> will: if you haven't yet read it you should read the Concepts & Tutorial
11:15:10 <will> warlord: where is that located at?
11:16:54 <warlord> http://www.gnucash.org
11:17:01 <warlord> under "documentation"
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11:18:00 <AndyGee> Hi
11:18:34 <gjanssens> will: jsled pointed you to a chapter in the most recent version of the Concepts & Tutorial guide, so you were reading it already :)
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11:20:28 <will> Thanks! I've been going through parts of it already, I thought you may have been referring to an elusive short version (one can hope :) )
11:21:45 <warlord> Nope. It's the size it is for a good reason.
11:21:53 <warlord> jsled: ping?
11:21:58 <jsled> warlord: pong
11:23:30 <warlord> jsled: PM okay?
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15:33:05 <JasonBoxLaptop> Is there some place I can look to find out where in my Moneydance QIF file gnucash is barfing? The import wizard provides an error without a line number or anything, so I can't investigate further
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15:37:42 <nightwatch> hey there, I was wondering whether is there a way to convert gnucash 2.4 file format to qif.. I have tried gnucash2qif java tool but is't working, any hint about it?
15:40:42 <warlord> JasonBoxLaptop: what error?
15:40:55 <warlord> JasonBoxLaptop: did you look in the gnucash.trace file?
15:41:13 <warlord> nightwatch: that's the only tool I know.,
15:42:46 <nightwatch> there's no error message
15:43:03 <nightwatch> it's simply doesnot work.
15:43:24 <warlord> what happens?
15:43:47 <nightwatch> and my accounting plan is almost empty there are only few records, 3 accounts and I work with 2 currencies
15:43:50 <nightwatch> that's all
15:43:59 <warlord> Oh, GNC2QIF -- you'll have to ask them; it's not a tool we maintain.
15:44:35 <nightwatch> I know that man, I was wondering that you might know other tools...
15:46:01 <warlord> Well, you could run a transaction report, export the HTML, load it into OOo or Excel, and then use the OOCalc macro to output QIF. BUt I don't know how well that will work.
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15:49:25 <JasonBoxLaptop> warlord: let me import again and look
15:51:43 <JasonBoxLaptop> The wizard says failed, Unreognized or inconsistent format
15:52:01 <JasonBoxLaptop> Where would I find a trace file?
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15:54:10 <JasonBoxLaptop> My trace in tmp only has a warning about the DBD driver being missing
15:55:18 <warlord> JasonBoxLaptop: Okay, that would imply that either the Date or Number formats are not consistent within the file.
15:55:30 <JasonBoxLaptop> shame on Moneydance
15:55:41 <warlord> For example, if you have D22/12/2010 and then D1/31/2011
15:56:00 <JasonBoxLaptop> Interesting
15:56:10 <JasonBoxLaptop> Should be relatively simple to correct that in the qif then
15:56:18 * JasonBoxLaptop opens it to look
15:56:21 <warlord> Should be.
15:57:31 <JasonBoxLaptop> Some of my D's are weird; they're non date strings
15:58:00 <warlord> Well, that could be a problem too.
15:58:10 * JasonBoxLaptop grin
16:01:25 <JasonBoxLaptop> hrm those apparently to be for !Account
16:05:20 <JasonBoxLaptop> md will let me export date ranges, so I can attempt to narrow it down at least
16:05:30 <JasonBoxLaptop> I should never have forsaken gnucash
16:06:02 <warlord> heh
16:06:57 <JasonBoxLaptop> md hides expense accounts behind categories, which is hurtful
16:08:25 <JasonBoxLaptop> Okay, the past 12 months imports fine, so this may be a resolvable situation
16:08:59 <JasonBoxLaptop> md08 was kind of neat, but md10 moved to a simply awful interface for transaction matching
16:09:25 <JasonBoxLaptop> Seems they spent all of 2010 porting to applestore or whatever instead of making a successor product worthy of me ;)
16:10:21 <JasonBoxLaptop> The biggest win I had with md was being able to download transaction history from my US credit card companies transparently
16:10:36 <JasonBoxLaptop> I get the sense I can do that in gnucash, yes?
16:12:30 <warlord> Possibly not as easily, but it is doable.
16:15:32 <JasonBoxLaptop> For years I was logging into each site and downloading the ofx file
16:15:40 <JasonBoxLaptop> Finally got bored with it
16:16:11 <JasonBoxLaptop> Even as I otherwise yearned for most of gnucash's featureset
16:16:51 <JasonBoxLaptop> with 2.4.0 I see tools -> online banking setup, which as made me hopeful
16:18:10 <JasonBoxLaptop> In fact, it sounds pretty rockin' http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2
16:18:37 <warlord> JasonBoxLaptop: that was in 2.2.9 as well
16:19:09 <JasonBoxLaptop> I'll have to give it a shot before I proceed
16:19:31 <JasonBoxLaptop> Yeah, I moved over before 2.2.x iirc
16:19:52 <JasonBoxLaptop> Curious about the SQL backend too ;)
16:20:00 <JasonBoxLaptop> Always thought having my data in PostgreSQL would be pretty sweet
16:20:40 <warlord> Why? then you have to secure yet another network service!
16:20:52 <warlord> .. and be wary of anyone who can read your network traffic.
16:22:58 * JasonBoxLaptop shrug
16:23:36 <JasonBoxLaptop> A valid observation
16:23:52 <JasonBoxLaptop> But then why have an SQL backend at all?
16:24:00 <warlord> ... and it means you have to be a DBA
16:24:02 <JasonBoxLaptop> I thought it would be interesting to see if I could run any reports against it
16:24:10 <warlord> Well, primarily so we can support SQLite and have real-time commits. :)
16:24:24 <JasonBoxLaptop> Though it's probably no less challenging to just learn the gnucash reporting language ;)
16:24:25 <warlord> .. and it does make it a little easier to run external reports.
16:24:35 <warlord> True, scheme is pretty simple.
16:24:41 <JasonBoxLaptop> Yeah, that was my singular thinking on the backend -- external reports
16:24:52 <JasonBoxLaptop> But I should try scheme first I suppose
16:25:10 <JasonBoxLaptop> I also liked the idea of having my stuff in something ACID
16:25:30 <JasonBoxLaptop> But then it seems gnucash has all kinds of commit logs and such, so the flatfile is probably fine anyway
16:25:51 <JasonBoxLaptop> It reads like ofxdirectconnect should work just fine for me
16:25:55 <JasonBoxLaptop> So I can attempt to move my data over then
16:26:16 <JasonBoxLaptop> have to reconcile everything up and try to integrate it back with my original 2007 gnucash file heh
16:26:29 <JasonBoxLaptop> should turn out to be... interesting
16:29:32 <warlord> ok
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17:10:20 <Arris> I have used gnucash for the past six months. I have the current version. My primary use has been as a simple register with accounts and register transactions. Moving into 2011 I wanted to start tracking invoicing and payments (customers) and services and materials (vendors) for a number of different projects. It appears that you can associate jobs with either vendors or customers but not both. Is this correct? How do you track proj
17:10:21 <Arris> costs, payments and profit?
17:15:18 <warlord> You can apply costs to customers via the chargeback functionality.
17:15:27 <warlord> But there are no reports to track "project costs" per se.
17:23:58 <Arris> have others found a way to track project costs using other software or other techniques?
17:24:45 <warlord> I have no idea.
17:25:02 <warlord> I wrote the code for my consulting requirements, which don't include materials.
17:25:21 <warlord> Any charges were just redirected back to the client, hense the chargeback
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17:31:59 <Arris> Are there other forums relating to gnucash? Is there an archive of discussion about this application?
17:32:32 <jsled> this channel has been logged for a number of years. there are mailing lists. both can be accessed from http://lists.gnucash.org/
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17:35:05 <Arris> Thanks
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20:49:07 <JasonBoxLaptop> success, it works with both my chase cards
20:49:29 <JasonBoxLaptop> get bal, anyway, have to try get transactions
20:49:43 <JasonBoxLaptop> next up, my checking acct
20:55:28 <warlord> Congrats!
20:56:48 <JasonBoxLaptop> wow, auto-save is cute
21:02:34 <warlord> :)
21:05:42 <JasonBoxLaptop> doesn't seem possible to get status window to stay open
21:05:52 <JasonBoxLaptop> So I can't see if it succeeds for my checking, but doesn't seem to
21:06:20 <warlord> You can get it to save the OFX logs.
21:06:27 <JasonBoxLaptop> interesting
21:07:39 <JasonBoxLaptop> hate to fail too many times, or I'll probaby be on the phone
21:08:40 <nofrill> Hi, As a new user, I must say I am the wiser for having been cajoled into (beginning) understanding double entry bookkeeping. The wiser, and hopefully someday the wealthier! h/t to the GnuCash team. And now to approximately two questions:
21:08:58 <nofrill> I am using GnuCash 2.4.0 on Win7. When selecting accounts for a report, ctrl-click closes the account tree rather than add selecting one. Found https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603090 which reports this on 2.2.9. 1) has anyone found a workaround, and b) +1 for a fix.
21:09:35 <nofrill> Also, I would like to know how to modify reports. Specifically, for shares of a stock held in multiple accounts, I would like to sum the shares and report the value once (along with a percentage of total portfolio to understand allocation) rather than seeing it reported multiple times. Having control of charting would be nice too, helpful for weaning myself of Excel for tracking investments. Abl
21:09:37 <nofrill> e to do limited programming (am enthusiastic amateur, not expert.)
21:17:39 <JasonBoxLaptop> gnutls_handshake: -24 (Decryption has failed.) [fatal]
21:17:41 <JasonBoxLaptop> That can't be good
21:17:54 <warlord> nofrill: Windows truly is a second-class citizen.. I doubt there has been a workaround or fix found.
21:21:10 <nofrill> too bad. I find it is not on all instances of the "choose accounts" control. wonder what my alternatives are. would compiling it myself have any chance of helping I wonder?
21:21:14 <warlord> as for the reports... If you have multiple brokerages with the same stock it's going to report it multiple times, because it's reporting based on your hierarchy.
21:21:51 <warlord> compiling yourself would only help if you planned to look in the code to try to fix it.. just recompiling for the sake of recompiling wont do a thing
21:22:28 <nofrill> sure I'd be in over my head to do the debugging!
21:23:13 <warlord> seriously, if you really want to hack on GnuCash you're better off installing Linux and running GnuCash there... But then you'll find that it doesn't have the same amount of... issue.
21:26:15 <nofrill> good point. I had slackware running on a dumpster grade box a while back could go that route or maybe a bootable OS. still, it is so convenient to have it on my work box. plus the more windows users the better, less lemmings using kwik'n!
21:34:35 <will> Dual-boot Ubuntu linux, or what I do is run linux as my primary and run windows on a virtual machine.
21:39:30 <JasonBoxLaptop> sigh, no such luck with tls
21:39:31 * JasonBoxLaptop hate
21:39:34 <nofrill> Thanks for the suggestion! work would kill me for changing boot os, so I have to go "non destructive". I have had success with knoppix (saved my ass so many times...)
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21:55:47 <JasonBoxLaptop> sick
21:55:53 <JasonBoxLaptop> the reason it didn't work I stumbled across
21:56:17 <JasonBoxLaptop> my bank validates APPID && APPVER to banish old versions of Quicken
21:56:24 <JasonBoxLaptop> i.e. the intuit extortion racket
22:02:29 <JasonBoxLaptop> ugh can't update transactions without the correct routing number the trace says
22:10:19 <JasonBoxLaptop> okay, replacing bankid with routing number works
22:10:36 <JasonBoxLaptop> but the downloaded transactions seems to have gone nowhere after assigning them to an acct ugh
22:11:35 <JasonBoxLaptop> ah, now I have a list of downloaded trans on 2nd try, in orange
22:13:01 <JasonBoxLaptop> hrm, dbl clicking acct text to set it in generic importer is a little weird
22:13:32 <JasonBoxLaptop> works, though, so I can probably proceed with this
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