2011-01-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:01:06 <laga> hey there. compiled gnucash 2.4 on ubuntu 10.10 with aqbanking 4.2.4-2. i can add my hbci account, but the "online actions" menu entry only has greyed out entries. any idea what i'm doing wrong?
04:14:25 <laga> uh, on a new file, i don't even see the "online actions" menu, yet i can configure online banking. building with --enable-hbci should be sufficient, i assume
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04:46:33 <laga> i suppose aqbanking-cli shouldn't segfault on me, although it looks like the data is retrieved correctly. hum.
05:11:30 <strk> annoyingly enough, gnucash gives NO error message when DISPLAY is not set
05:23:40 <strk> is a patch against svn trunk still the preferred way for contribution ?
05:23:48 <strk> or is there any pure-git path for that?
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08:20:42 <nchand> Hey folks. Im a bit confused on the credit card entries. Im working through the tutorial right now, but lets say I have a CC with 1000.00 limit, and 350 is already charged on it. Would I set an opening balance of 650?
08:21:04 <jsled> nchand: no, it would be 350
08:21:08 <jsled> the limit isn't represented
08:21:36 <jsled> and by default gnucash inverts the balance of credit card accounts; the 350 you would would be a "positive" balance of 350 on the account.
08:21:38 <nchand> Ahh ok, so if you want to track limits you could just add a note in the description
08:21:45 <jsled> correct
08:22:25 <nchand> ok, makes more sense. Then when you create your charts, since it shows it as a positive, would it be reflected in overall assets? Im assuming this is more of a general finance way of doing it?
08:23:32 <jsled> It's a liability, not an asset. but in something like a net worth report, it would be represented as such, yes.
08:24:14 <jsled> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/guide/cc-enterpay1.html has some examples
08:24:46 <kimmo> damn, here I was thinking my CC's contributed a total of $55k to my net worth
08:24:49 <nchand> Yea, thats the doc I have up =)
08:24:49 <kimmo> ;)
08:25:11 <jsled> (sorry, I need to go deal with the morning; biaw)
08:25:14 <nchand> excellent, thanks. Its definately a new way of thinking about your finances
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08:28:35 <gjanssens> @op
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08:47:33 <warlord> strk: Subversion is still our standard.
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08:48:55 <nchand_> curious, can gnucash run from, say a laptop, connecting to your mysql server elsewhere?
08:49:13 <nchand_> I would assume so
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08:51:52 <warlord> nchand_: theoretically, sure.
08:52:00 <warlord> ... if your mysql has network access.
08:52:18 <warlord> But then anyone watching the network would probably be able to read your financials as they get loaded over the network.
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14:11:31 <goblin> hi guys
14:12:00 <goblin> I'm scraping statements from my online banking site (Halifax UK) and I'm looking for the simplest way to import the data into gnucash
14:12:19 <goblin> I like Perl
14:12:40 <goblin> and I'm looking at Finance::Quote but I don't quite get it - can it interact with the gnucash XML format at all?
14:13:09 <jsled> no, it just scrapes quotes into s-expressions; gnucash launches and consumes its output
14:13:18 <jsled> I'm sorry (re: Perl) ;)
14:13:26 <jsled> and … QIF is a nice simple format gnucash can import.
14:13:36 <jsled> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QIF
14:13:48 <goblin> yeah I was looking at QIF but it seemed just about as much hassle as XML ;-]
14:14:11 <goblin> perhaps these s-expressions is what I should try?
14:15:04 <jsled> F::Q only does stock (and currency) values.
14:15:11 <goblin> ah
14:15:22 <jsled> if you want to import, there's QIF and OFX.
14:15:36 <goblin> the problem I have, it's kinda hard to determine whether a transaction has already been entered into gnucash... as in, I get the past 3 months' worth of statements, but transactions don't have any IDs, so there's no easy way of de-duplicating them
14:15:48 <jsled> unless the CSV importer got resurrected.
14:16:38 <goblin> also, when I click on File/Import/Import QIF, I just see a window with title "QIF Import" and the text "[a GnomeDruid]" in the middle and nothing else - no buttons, no inputs
14:17:10 <goblin> same happens when I try to click "Setup" when it tells me it can't find default values before it starts (I click Skip and then it works)
14:17:24 <jsled> that sounds pretty broken. what os/distro/
14:17:25 <jsled> ?
14:17:25 <goblin> I suspect broken Nix packaging though
14:17:48 <goblin> Nix is... pretty special ;-)
14:18:18 <jsled> I've never heard of it
14:18:26 <goblin> nixos.org
14:18:28 <jsled> and it's … hard to search for.
14:18:47 <goblin> yeah google keeps doing "Did you mean UNIX?"
14:19:06 <goblin> and people keep typing *NIX when they mean Linux-like ;-)
14:19:36 <warlord> goblin: maybe you should switch to a real distro ;)
14:20:08 <goblin> anyways, if I decided to go for generating QIF, are there any examples available somewhere? Can I specify gnucash accounts in the regular format (i.e. expenses:groceries:bananas)?
14:20:50 <jsled> there's some examples in the source tree. the wikipedia page is pretty good at describing the format.
14:21:08 <goblin> yeah I had a 'real' distro but I didn't upgrade it properly and it got messy and I can't be arsed fixing it and I wanted to try Nix anyway ;-) but yeah I'll compile gnucash properly when I'll feel a need for it
14:21:25 <goblin> ah, let me have a look at the source then :-]
14:24:23 <goblin> also what bothers me is that there seems to be no QIF export available... so how will my script know what accounts are available... and what past transactions have been...
14:26:35 <goblin> this new SQL backend in 2.4 seems /awesome/ but hrm I currently only have 2.2.9 ;P
14:26:54 <jsled> it wont
14:27:14 <jsled> when you do the import, the importer will have you match the transactions into the accounts.
14:27:23 <jsled> it will remember which transaction memos match to which accounts.
14:27:34 <jsled> there's no direct way to specify the gnucash account in the QIF
14:28:13 <goblin> oh, I see... I should probably get it to work properly first, then
14:28:16 <jsled> also, while the importer will help with dedup, if you really want to do it, you should do it out of band
14:28:49 <goblin> but fiddling with the XML is so... appealing...
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14:40:03 <warlord> Trust us, goblin, you dont want to do that. Printing QIF and then importing is really the better way. The importer can help you track and remove DUPs.
14:41:52 <goblin> ok... I shall do that then. Thanks :-]
14:49:11 <strk> configure: error: SWIG version >= 1.3.31 is required. You have 2.0.0. You should look at http://www.swig.org
14:49:16 <strk> can I do w/out swig ? what do I loose ?
14:49:21 <goblin> ah, one more question... the autocomplete feature is really awesome, but I sometimes have transactions with descriptions like "Faster Payment - John Smith", "Faster Payment - Alice Jr", "Faster Payment - Bob Wright" to type in manually. Is there a way to do the bash-like completion in this case, where I kinda type "F<tab>J<tab>" to get the John Smith easily?
14:52:51 <goblin> at the moment I'm doing "F<End><C-Backspace><C-Backspace>J" which is kinda OK
14:53:11 <warlord> strk: You can do without swig *IF* you only build from the tarball. If you build from SVN you need swig.
14:54:19 <warlord> goblin: I dont think there's a good way to do what you want now, sorry. patches always welcome
14:55:30 <laga> this case, where I kinda type "F<tab>J<tab>" to get the John Smith easily?
15:04:33 <goblin> warlord, cool, thanks :-]
15:04:43 <warlord> you're welcome
15:04:44 <goblin> it would require some special keybind I guess as Tab is already taken
15:05:19 <laga> did i poste some weird stuff here? sorry about that.
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15:07:14 <strk> goblin: what about a pull-down list you can browse with arrow up/down ?
15:07:44 <strk> ala what you get typing a partial url in firefox or chromium
15:08:13 <strk> working also when the match is internal, not just at the beginning
15:08:41 <strk> so you could type "Smi" and be done, for example (or couple of arrow key strokes more)
15:09:59 <goblin> strk, ah yes, makes sense
15:10:12 <goblin> I don't feel confident enough with GTK to submit a patch though :-(
15:10:58 <strk> don't think about submission yet
15:11:12 <strk> just go ahead and get confident
15:11:19 <goblin> ;-)
15:11:22 <strk> I'm sure you'll get there before anyone else anyway
15:11:35 <goblin> nah, knowing how lazy I can be, I doubt it ;-)
15:12:03 <goblin> the <end> <ctrl-backspace> sequence works well enough ;-)
15:12:22 <strk> nah, you're lazier than that
15:12:22 <strk> think about it
15:12:30 <goblin> ;-D
15:14:27 <strk> now if I could only build gnucash w/out installing swig manually, I might eventually come up with a patch for DISPLAY error message
15:14:28 <goblin> hmm hang on... jsled here is sorry that I like perl, and Gnucash depends on Perl and some CPAN modules? :-D
15:14:32 <strk> who's lazy...
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15:15:06 * goblin is compiling 2.4.0 :-]
15:15:40 <goblin> I hope XML produced by 2.4.0 will be readable by 2.2.9
15:15:50 <warlord> it should be
15:15:54 <goblin> coool
15:15:56 <goblin> :-)
15:17:45 <goblin> wow there's a --disable-gui configure option :-D
15:18:13 <warlord> Yeah, but it... doesn't really do what you think
15:18:50 <goblin> heh yeah, gnucash without gui would be... weird ;-)
15:32:48 <goblin> yay, got past the configure stage :-]
15:32:58 <goblin> wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be ;-)
15:33:36 <goblin> these apt-gets and emerges and stuff make people lazy
15:33:55 <warlord> Heh
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15:39:51 <goblin> unresolved symbols during linking. joy. :-]
15:40:47 <strk> goblin: indeed, which is why I'm annoyed by the swig thing
15:40:53 * strk can't apt-get install swig to go
15:41:13 <strk> I've been made lazy by package managers
15:45:38 <warlord> strk: what version of swig do you get?
15:45:55 <warlord> Can't you install swig 1.3.x?
15:54:15 <strk> I do have 1.3.40-2ubuntu1
15:54:38 <strk> ah, now I see
15:54:39 <strk> it's a bug !
15:54:41 <strk> configure: error: SWIG version >= 1.3.31 is required. You have 2.0.0. You should look at http://www.swig.org
15:54:44 <strk> ...
15:54:57 <strk> but I don't have 2.0.0 either
15:55:04 <strk> so a double bug
15:55:29 <strk> bug 1 : I don't have 2.0.0 but 1.3.40 (I might be wrong, and have some manually installed swig too somewhere)
15:55:38 <strk> bug 2 : ./configure thinks 2.0.0 is < 1.3.31
15:56:12 <goblin> check configure.ac :-]
15:56:34 <strk> AC_PROG_SWIG(1.3.31)
15:57:02 <strk> macros/ac_pkg_swig.m4
15:57:12 <goblin> and now I'm getting errors during compilation...
15:57:17 <goblin> druid-utils.h:29: error: expected ')' before '*' token
15:57:21 <goblin> and more like that
15:57:24 <strk> ok, bug 1 is not a bug, I do have 2.0.0 (/usr/local/bin/swig)
15:59:41 <strk> if test $available_major -ne $required_major \
15:59:42 <strk> -o $available_minor -ne $required_minor \
15:59:47 <strk> not equal
15:59:52 <strk> so, 1 -ne 2 ...
16:00:14 <strk> the macro insists on 1.3.x
16:00:23 <strk> is that expected warlord ?
16:01:00 * strk uninstalls the local swig, btw...
16:02:35 <goblin> I think GnomeDruid is somehow becoming undefined...
16:03:06 <warlord> strk: It's not unexpected that we don't support swig-2
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16:04:07 <strk> ah, great. no bugs then
16:04:27 <strk> next stop: guile. which package, for lazy ppl ?
16:04:35 <strk> ubuntu 10.04
16:04:50 * goblin guesses libguile.*-dev ;-]
16:06:33 <goblin> this is quite bizzare... :q
16:06:48 <warlord> strk: apt-get build-dep gnucash
16:07:11 <warlord> Or pull 2.4.0 from experimental
16:07:27 <strk> ouch, lilypond will be removed :'(
16:07:35 <strk> accountant don't play with music I guess
16:08:37 <goblin> http://leviathan.uukgoblin.net/goblin/vim-weird.png
16:09:10 <goblin> why does vim highlight GnomeDruid on red background? I never saw it do that with regular keywords...
16:09:27 <strk> a struct ?
16:09:45 <goblin> adding struct doesn't de-highlight it
16:10:01 <goblin> there's some problems there surely cause gcc is complaining about druid-utils.h:29: error: expected ')' before '*' token
16:10:17 <goblin> but it's not an undefined identifier or anything like that... it's... weird...
16:10:40 <goblin> also, it was compiling fine when I had older libgnomeui...
16:10:46 <goblin> (but failing linking)
16:11:32 <warlord> take a look at the gnucash wiki which has instructions for building on UB10.10
16:14:11 <goblin> Warning
16:14:11 <goblin> GnomeDruid is deprecated and should not be used in newly-written code.
16:15:26 <goblin> quick guess: new libgnomeui no longer supports druids
16:15:43 * goblin has 2.24.3 installed
16:20:52 <warlord> Do you have 'deprecated -> error' turned on?
16:21:33 <goblin> warlord, no, it's just erroring during compilation. I'm trying with 2.24.4 now... nope, still errors
16:22:25 <goblin> it's already raised as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596254
16:22:38 <goblin> over a year ago :-(
16:23:58 <warlord> Oh, that.
16:24:16 <warlord> Yes, we didn't want to do such a major change in the 2.4 timeframe.
16:24:21 <warlord> It should be on the list for 2.6
16:24:27 <goblin> http://leviathan.uukgoblin.net/goblin/gnucash-buildlog.txt <- here's the full output of make now
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16:32:17 <redlizard> i'm trying to record a purchase in a foreign currency, almost exactly as documented in http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.2/C/gnucash-guide/currency_purchase1.html , except that i don't have a foreign-currency bank account -- my bank just converts currencies on the fly for me at payment time. How can I best record this?
16:33:16 <goblin> redlizard, you need to set one of the gnucash accounts to be in foreign currency
16:33:27 <goblin> it'll allow you to set the exchange rate in the transaction then
16:34:12 <warlord> redlizard: don't record it as a foreign currency. Just record the amount in your own currency
16:35:06 <warlord> E.g., you make a purchase that's €72.12 on your credit card, but your CC is in USD so just record it as $115.39
16:35:29 <redlizard> goblin: so i'd have to create a ghost account, and use 2 transactions to pay a bill
16:35:31 <warlord> (put the €72.12 in the description, or the memo field, or txn notes)
16:35:35 <redlizard> warlord: i'm pretty sure that's just incorrect bookkeepign
16:35:49 <redlizard> *bookkeeping
16:35:50 <warlord> redlizard: no, it's not. You're not actually transacting in the foreign currency.
16:36:09 <goblin> df -h
16:36:12 <goblin> oops ww ;-]
16:36:58 <redlizard> well, in your example, the vendor certainly never received $115.39
16:37:22 <warlord> redlizard: that's irrelevant; that's their accounting, not yours.
16:37:30 <warlord> *you* sent $115.39
16:37:39 <warlord> (the bank converted it for you for them)
16:38:07 <redlizard> which is why i'd like to just make a transaction saying "deduct X of currency A from account 1, and deposit Y of currency B on account 2", but that doesn't seem possible
16:38:33 <redlizard> well, it's possible, but not as part of a bill paid
16:38:35 <goblin> it is possible if only account 2 is in currency B
16:38:51 <warlord> redlizard: yes, the biz features don't allow that in 2.2
16:39:02 <warlord> You can do it with a regular transaction.
16:39:06 <redlizard> keyword being "in 2.2"?
16:39:16 <redlizard> will switching to 2.4 allow me to do this?
16:39:37 <warlord> maybe. I believe there is better support.
16:39:44 <warlord> But I don't know how good
16:40:08 * warlord didn't code those changes
16:41:06 <goblin> yes, GnomeDruid is definitely undefined...
16:41:26 <warlord> goblin: are you running a bleeding-edge release or something?
16:41:48 <goblin> warlord, compiling gnucash 2.4.0 on libgnomeui 2.24.4
16:42:48 <warlord> what distro ships that?
16:43:08 <warlord> Hmm.. Actually, I have 2.24.1 on F12
16:43:10 <warlord> So...
16:43:16 <goblin> aha! gnome-druid.h in that version only defines the Druid shit if GNOME_DISABLE_DEPRECATED is not set, and it seems it is set
16:43:21 <goblin> warlord, gentoo
16:43:53 <goblin> /usr/include/libgnomeui-2.0/libgnomeui/gnome-druid.h line 27 has #ifndef GNOME_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
16:44:00 <warlord> goblin: I asked that 23 minutes ago: <warlord> Do you have 'deprecated -> error' turned on?
16:44:18 <goblin> I thought you meant some gcc switch that I explicitly set
16:44:24 <goblin> which I didn't...
16:44:40 <goblin> sorry, should've clarified :-]
16:45:09 <warlord> Nope, it would be a #define or build rule.
16:45:41 <warlord> what configure options do you use?
16:45:50 <goblin> in config.h, I have this: #define GNOME_DISABLE_DEPRECATED 1
16:45:57 <goblin> I only used --prefix
16:46:39 <warlord> Hmm.. There is a gnucash configure switch to enable/disable glib, gdk, gtk, and gnome
16:46:50 <warlord> ./configure --help | grep deprecated
16:47:17 <redlizard> hm, configure seems to think i don't have SLIB
16:47:44 <goblin> redlizard, did the same for me, installing slib helped though
16:47:59 <redlizard> but aptitude confirms that i do have it installed
16:48:05 <goblin> warlord, well I didn't use that switch...
16:49:44 <goblin> hmm there's HAVE_UNTESTED_GNOME... I seem to have gnome 2.18.0... perhaps that's my problem
16:49:56 <warlord> That could be...
16:50:04 <warlord> If you have multiple versions of gnome, that would definitely be an issue!
16:50:12 <warlord> If it thinks you have X but really you have Y
16:51:20 <goblin> I only upgraded libgnomeui, that didn't pull the upgrade of libgnome with it.
16:51:49 <goblin> so I'm guessingi gnome 2.18.0 and gnomeui 2.24.4 don't like each other ;-] upgrading, will let you know if it fixed it
16:52:52 <goblin> ah there we go... stupid emerge...
16:53:03 <warlord> Um, no, they most definitely do NOT like each other. You need to keep them all in sync!
16:53:42 <goblin> that's the reason I installed nix... emerge was pissing me off with crap like that.
16:55:08 <goblin> thanks very much for your help :-)
16:55:16 <goblin> I have enough for today ;-)
16:56:42 <warlord> Enjoy
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17:22:36 <redlizard> when trying to run a freshly-compiled gnucash 2.4, i get an assertion failure:
17:22:38 <redlizard> ** gnc.gui:ERROR:(../../../src/gnome-utils/gnc-main-window.c:3286):gnc_main_window_setup_window: assertion failed: (filename)
17:23:53 <jsled> goblin: emerge is very good about things like that, ime.
17:24:13 <jsled> also, gnome 2.18 !
17:26:19 <jsled> Even gnome 2.24 is 5 releases old!
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17:40:27 *** jsled changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! || publically-logged channel || latest stable: 2.4.0 || www.gnucash.org"
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21:26:46 <alex87> there are some entries in account receivable that I cannot edit. any reason for that?
21:32:00 <nchand_> If you had 2 seperate incomes, say job A @ 30k a year and job B @ 25k a year, could you just add 2 accounts with opening balances of each yearly salary?
21:41:08 <jsled> nchand_: usually, Income is a "source" of funds.
21:41:21 <jsled> So transactions look like Income -> Assets:Bank
21:41:27 <jsled> periodically throughout the year.
21:41:46 <jsled> you don't need a further source or opening balance for those Income accounts.
21:42:17 <nchand_> makes sense, thanks jsled
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21:54:43 <warlord> alex87: because all A/R entries must be entered through the Business menu item
21:55:29 <warlord> nchand_: you should only touch "opening balances" when you first start using GnuCash to record the state of affairs prior to the start. Once you start using GnuCash you shiould never touch it again.
21:58:17 <alex87> warlord, i did not know that... it seems to work for most entries, but i can't change I to P in a few of them
21:58:33 <warlord> alex87: right.
21:58:41 <warlord> 'I' == 'Invoice' == ReadOnly
21:58:48 <warlord> This is by design.
21:58:54 <warlord> You shouldn't use A/R accounts for hand-entry.
21:58:59 <warlord> Just use a regular Asset account.
22:00:39 <alex87> warlord, thanks, i'll convert it now
22:04:09 <alex87> is gnucash fully featured? can it be used to run the books of a company?
22:04:49 <warlord> it all depends on your personal definition of "fully featured". However people have certainly been using it to run the accounting for companies since 2002.
22:05:11 <alex87> nice
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