2011-01-15 GnuCash IRC logs

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05:32:50 <gary> morning. I'm failing with my VAT again :) If VAT on sales is a Liability, then VAT claimed back on purchases is what? An Asset? Equity? Or negative liability?
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06:02:05 <felle> gary:current asset
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08:10:37 <wank> anyone tell me why I can edit the account I just created?
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08:33:45 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
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09:22:32 <Bert^> does Christian hang out here sometimes?
09:31:56 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:32:01 <warlord> Bert^: sometimes, but rarely
09:32:05 <warlord> (he used to hang out more)
09:37:42 <Bert^> okay, thanks
09:37:51 <Bert^> as a general question on bugzilla if you have some time
09:38:06 <Bert^> what is considered the problem statement?
09:38:18 <Bert^> the initial post, or what follows from the discussion?
09:38:28 <warlord> Yes.
09:38:57 <warlord> (unfortunately there is no way to edit the original description of the problem. Sometimes it's correct. Sometimes it is wrong. It depends on the bug)
09:39:22 <warlord> Usually the Summary (which is editable) will help you decide what partt of the bug is the actual full description.
09:40:04 <Bert^> Ah, okay.
09:40:04 <Bert^> That clears things up a bit.
09:40:43 <warlord> Some users just don't understand what the bug is when they file the bug report, so once the *actual* bug is discovered it might be somewhere down in the comments.
09:40:56 <Bert^> In either case, if it's resolved/closed and I am not really attached to the bug, I should not submit further patches but wait for some stakeholder (or the original poster) to flag this then? (It's probably not that black or white)
09:40:59 <warlord> Usually the Summary is updated at that time to more accurately reflect the real bug.
09:41:16 <warlord> Well, why was it closed?
09:41:18 <Bert^> ah, and admins can also update the summary?
09:41:33 <warlord> I believe anyone can
09:42:14 <Bert^> (talking about #502066 if that makes it easier for you, but it's just informative)
09:42:36 <Bert^> Well, I submitted a patch which more or less covers the summary, however I believe there are further opportunities.
09:42:44 <Bert^> Thence why it has been closed, I guess.
09:42:56 <warlord> It was closed because the bug as-stated was fixed.
09:43:01 <Bert^> All in all it is good news, so just poking around a bit to get a hang of what's done and not done :)
09:43:13 <warlord> The report is now based off due date.
09:43:23 <warlord> Is there another/different bug?
09:44:09 <Bert^> There's mention in the summary of "identifying the invoice" and further down in the discussion that "all business reports are impacted"
09:44:09 <warlord> What other opportunities?
09:45:32 <warlord> You can identify the invoice from the customer report, which is linked off the aging report.
09:46:10 <Bert^> Yes, but that report would now be inconsistent (since it's not based on due date).
09:46:38 <warlord> As for the 'other business reports are impacted", yes, that's probably true -- the aging portions of those reports should get updated as well.
09:46:46 <warlord> (it would be nice if they all used the same code)
09:46:53 <warlord> I believe that should go into a new bug.
09:47:04 <warlord> (bugs with patches get applied/fixed quickly)
09:47:33 <Bert^> okay, so in this case, I should watch out what to submit as a patch, and if the reporter wants consistency he/she should file another bug (ideally :))
09:48:06 <warlord> No, you're welcome to have submitted a patch that goes beyond what's asked for.
09:48:20 <warlord> .. and you're welcome to create a patch/bug on your own instead of waiting for someone else to file a report.
09:48:51 <Bert^> okay, and a possible new patch would be against a new bug report, or could I still post in a closed/resolved bug?
09:48:54 <warlord> i.e., you can file a report that says "the change from #502066 means the aging reports are different than the aging of the customer reports. Here's a patch that fixes that"
09:49:04 <warlord> No, it should be against a new report
09:49:23 <Bert^> Alright, thank you for a very informative explanation.
09:49:30 <warlord> You're welcome.
09:50:01 <warlord> Basically, the only reason to touch a closed bug is if the patch doesn't work or breaks other things, in which case the patch should be reverted and the bug re-opened.
09:50:25 <warlord> but other than that, you should never touch a closed bug. Create a new one and refer to the old one if you feel you need to for context.
09:51:20 <Bert^> Okidoki. That's why I was a bit unsure what to do. But hey, probably already made some people happy.
09:51:45 <warlord> :)
09:52:33 <Bert^> If you still have some free time (or can link to some FAQ that covers this, I am still trying to get around all the info on the site): are all c functons automatically exposed in scheme? And if not, is there an easy way to recognize what they are?
09:53:22 <Bert^> functions even
09:56:00 <warlord> Um, most of the C functions should be exposed in scheme.
09:56:23 <warlord> The best way to figure that out is to see if the .h file that declares the function is pulled into a .i file.
09:57:34 <warlord> Unfortunately there really isn't a good pointer to "scheme docs".
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09:58:21 <Bert^> They probably aren't captured in doxyen either?
09:58:36 <warlord> Nope, doxygen doesn't cover the scheme (or python) bindings
09:58:57 <warlord> (a patch to do so would be gladly accepted)
09:59:21 <Bert^> I am afraid that's a bit out of my scope :)
09:59:27 <warlord> sorry
09:59:52 <Bert^> But at the moment, it comes down to doing some homework and getting familiar with the scheme files that are out there then.
10:00:07 <warlord> Yeah.
10:00:21 <warlord> Or, like I said, look at the .i files.
10:00:32 <Bert^> I will have look at those then.
10:01:55 <Bert^> Thanks again, it's a cool project btw. :)
10:03:34 <warlord> thanks.
10:03:35 <warlord> gotta run
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10:24:57 <david> Hello. When I do an online import from my bank, I'm not happy with the transaction descriptions I get. For example, transactions at my grocery store show the street address. Is there a way to automatically have GnuCash change the descriptions of imported transactions?
11:27:12 <indigo> automatically change them to what?
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12:27:17 <strk> VAT is liability, right ?
12:44:18 <indigo> if you are collecting it, then later paying it to the tax authority, my understanding is yes.
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13:26:17 <strk> yeah, that's the idea
13:26:32 <strk> trying to make it clear that the money in my bank are not _mine_ but a kind of borrowing from state
13:26:45 <strk> so that my wife can't complain that much :)
13:27:12 <strk> I hope I'll succeed in handling the time when I'll actually pay that VAT to the state
13:27:36 <strk> in that case what would happen ? move money from liability to ? expenses?
13:27:52 <strk> uhm, or from bank to liability
13:39:00 <strk> ok, I created a VAT account, with current VAT
13:39:15 <strk> now.. what do I do everytime I get paid an invoice which includes VAT ?
14:22:12 <indigo> well, when you render services, you debit A/R and credit Income:Services (or whatever) and also Liabilities:VAT
14:22:40 <indigo> when you get paid you credit A/R and debit wherever you put the money (Assets:Checking Account, etc)
14:23:38 <indigo> at least, that's the general idea. I should declare I'm not an accountant, and even if I was, we don't have VAT here.
14:26:03 <indigo> the point is, you've recorded both that you owe tax to some authority (Liabilities:VAT) and also you've collected that money (Assets:Cash, or Assets:A/R) so it doesn't affect your equity, yet you still know how much is owed to the tax man.
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14:28:44 <strk> but I only owe tax to authority if that A/R gets paid (but maybe, actually not)
14:31:41 <indigo> hm
14:31:45 <strk> uhm... my reports default to USD, I always have to set EUR manually
14:32:28 <strk> ok, let's try to get the A/R thingy right
14:32:49 <strk> currently I did record one crediting OpeningBalances
14:33:03 <strk> involving just 2 accounts: OpeningBlanaces -> A/R
14:33:05 <indigo> there's a name for an account that holds assets that might not be collectable
14:33:06 <strk> instead, let's see what should I do
14:33:11 <indigo> like, checks that might bounce, or A/R that people might not pay
14:33:57 <indigo> i forget what it's called, but i imagine you can do the same thing for liabilities. So, when you render services, you record the VAT in Liabilities:VAT i might have to pay. When they actually pay, you debit that, and credit Liabilities:VAT i actually have to pay
14:34:51 <indigo> this is probably venturing into the area where you should ask a professional accountant.
14:35:02 <strk> to help with gnucash ? :>
14:35:16 <indigo> to help with how you should track VAT
14:35:16 <strk> if I could find such an illuminated accountant, I'd switch immediately
14:35:24 <strk> mine doesn't even answer to mail within 30 days
14:35:39 <indigo> sounds like you need a better accountant
14:35:51 <strk> yeah, which is why I started looking at gnucash...
14:40:19 <strk> ok, I've modified the A/R transaction so that now starts at Income:Services
14:40:27 <strk> and gets into A/R and Liabilities:Vat
14:44:07 <strk> oh, and when you actually _pay_ the vat ? you credit what ? Expenses:Taxes:VAT ?
14:44:44 <strk> debiting Liabilities:VAT...
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16:48:30 <Testa> hi all
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21:18:04 <jed> how do you add accounts to an existing budget?
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21:38:49 <david> @indigo: Automatically change the description to another description of my choosing.
21:38:49 <gncbot> david: Error: "indigo:" is not a valid command.
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21:40:35 <warlord> david: no, the importer will not change any of the texts on imported transactions.
21:41:08 <david> Bummer. :) It would be nice.
21:44:17 <warlord> Submit a patch
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