2011-01-06 GnuCash IRC logs

00:17:21 *** jakob_ has quit IRC
01:15:03 *** fell has quit IRC
02:04:36 *** pcroque has quit IRC
03:26:23 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
04:00:07 *** jmd has joined #gnucash
04:01:24 <jmd> What package(s) are required for HBCI functions?
04:51:20 *** zokum has quit IRC
05:12:36 *** jmd has quit IRC
05:19:20 *** e-ndy has joined #gnucash
05:44:14 *** esperegu has joined #gnucash
06:09:31 *** ErKa has quit IRC
06:54:29 *** kpreid has quit IRC
07:19:27 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
07:25:39 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
07:42:34 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
07:48:40 *** e-ndy has quit IRC
07:52:09 *** kpreid has quit IRC
07:56:56 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
08:01:36 *** Silly- has joined #gnucash
08:08:48 *** kimmo has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** Silly has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** midnightmonster has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** glennr has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** Flash has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** warlord has quit IRC
08:08:48 *** Silly- is now known as Silly
08:10:13 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
08:12:04 *** fell has joined #gnucash
08:12:04 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell
08:12:18 *** glennr has joined #gnucash
08:12:32 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
08:13:57 *** kimmo has joined #gnucash
08:19:17 *** Flash has joined #gnucash
08:30:26 *** fbond has joined #gnucash
08:30:26 *** kpreid has quit IRC
08:31:31 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
08:42:02 *** laga has joined #gnucash
08:42:11 <laga> afternoon gentlemen
09:04:11 *** jmd has joined #gnucash
09:05:23 <jmd> Where is the documentation explaining how to use the DBI backend?
09:07:44 *** kpreid has quit IRC
09:08:49 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
09:36:56 *** jmd has quit IRC
09:46:36 *** linas__ has quit IRC
09:46:51 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
09:47:10 *** pcroque has joined #gnucash
10:03:53 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
10:04:43 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
11:13:06 *** felle has joined #gnucash
11:13:06 *** gncbot sets mode: +o felle
11:19:31 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
11:19:32 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
11:20:36 *** markjenkinsparit has joined #gnucash
11:21:01 *** fell has quit IRC
11:21:08 *** felle is now known as fell
11:28:16 <fell> warlord: JFYI http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-announce/2011-January/000093.html
11:32:45 <fell> jsled: shouldn't we use http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSpamRegex against this damn UGG Boots?
11:33:19 *** esperegu has quit IRC
11:34:15 <jsled> probably you should, yes.
11:34:17 <warlord> fell: I'll look at upgrading.
11:35:01 <warlord> Then again it's about time to upgrade the server to a more modern release. I need to find a weekend where I can spend the time to perform the upgrade.
11:39:24 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
11:47:37 <warlord> The server is currently 4 releases behind.
11:49:55 *** ErKa has quit IRC
12:14:57 *** Askarii has joined #gnucash
12:17:40 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
12:19:43 *** linas__ has quit IRC
12:20:03 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
12:21:02 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
12:21:03 *** linas__ has quit IRC
12:28:07 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
12:28:07 *** linas_ has quit IRC
12:37:01 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
12:37:01 *** linas__ has quit IRC
12:39:12 *** linas_ has quit IRC
12:39:43 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
12:42:00 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
12:51:38 *** linas_ has quit IRC
12:51:57 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
12:54:53 *** linas_ has quit IRC
12:55:05 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
13:01:00 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
13:04:38 *** micha has quit IRC
13:33:02 *** jmd has joined #gnucash
13:43:03 <jmd> How can I share one of my accounts with another user?
13:43:52 <Askarii> send them a copy of the gnucash file
13:45:11 <jmd> Askarii, But I don't want to share ALL of them!
13:45:24 <jsled> there's no way to share just one accout
13:45:26 <jsled> account, even.
13:45:33 <jmd> Bummer!
13:45:38 <jsled> jmd: what do you mean by "use the DBI backend"?
13:46:35 <jmd> I understand gnucash can put its data in a relational database instead of a xml file.
13:47:00 <jsled> my understanding is it's as simple as File > Save As … with 2.4.0
13:47:19 <jmd> Oh right.
13:47:33 <jmd> But I still can't share accounts that way?
13:47:44 <jsled> individual accounts? no
13:47:56 <jmd> So what's the advantage of it?
13:48:05 <jsled> the database is just a dumb store; you can have another gnucash instance access the same database, still in a serialized fashion
13:48:44 <jmd> I could just as well use a NFS?
13:48:49 <jsled> yes
13:49:18 <jmd> Hmm.
13:49:48 <jmd> Are there any plans then to introduce more granularity over access to accounts?
13:49:59 *** Askarii has left #gnucash
13:50:31 <jsled> it's presuptious of me to say no, but: "no".
13:51:04 <jsled> let me clarify:
13:51:24 <jsled> 0/ I'm increasingly detached from the project, so I don't know if anyone's been discussing it, but…
13:51:38 <jsled> 1/ when I was active for nearly 10 years, it never really came up as a desire
13:51:56 <jsled> 2/ there's never really "plans" with a project scraping by for developers
13:52:07 <jsled> 3/ multi-user access has always been way more desirable
13:52:24 <jmd> I find 1/ hard to believe.
13:52:32 <jsled> 4/ it's arguably not really in the scope of a personal/small-business software where there's not large "firewalls" between users
13:52:58 <jsled> of all the statements, you actually *can't* not believe that one. :) It's my personal experience.
13:53:28 <jmd> And without such a feature, the use of a relational database seems like an overkill.
13:53:46 <jsled> really, it probably never came up. on the mailing lists, in discussion here … I can't recall anyone asking for it.
13:54:15 <jsled> the db is more friendly to reporting and external data modification, no matter how bad of an idea the latter is.
13:54:55 <jsled> there's also potential for a more appropriate paradigm of the gnucash application as a db client … having the "dumb" db access now makes that step more tractable in the future.
13:57:01 <jmd> I kinda naively assumed that because it used a db backend I could have as much control over the accounts as the db gave me :(
13:57:58 <jsled> the DB knows nothing about gnucash's "Account" data model on top of the tables.
13:58:23 <jsled> so, I'm not exactly sure what you mean about "control over the accounts".
13:58:46 <jmd> Well like for example sharing access to accounts.
14:00:16 *** kpreid has quit IRC
14:01:44 <jsled> dbs, generally, don't know about application concepts
14:01:59 <jsled> like … yhou don't use mysql grants to control access to mediawiki pages.
14:02:41 <jmd> ... which explains why projects like savannah have so many security compromises.
14:02:49 <jsled> huh?
14:03:01 <jsled> nevermind.
14:08:11 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
14:08:56 <warlord> jmd: The next step for using DBI would be multi-user access, but that's multiple users to the whole set of accounts. There are no plans to acl individual accounts.
14:09:03 <warlord> Why do you want this feature?
14:11:39 <jmd> warlord, Well, my wife and I generally manage our own finances independently. But there are some expenses etc that we must both contribute to.
14:12:03 <jmd> (surely that's not an uncommon domestic arrangement in this day-and-age!!)
14:15:06 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:18:28 <warlord> jmd: But why not just share the whole file? Do you have something to hide from your spouse?
14:18:50 <jmd> Well perhaps !!
14:19:16 <warlord> lol
14:20:19 <jmd> Maybe I don't want her to know how much (little) I spent on her birthday present ....
14:20:39 <laga> i just spent the whole afternoon setting up gnucash, reconciling accounts, moving money around.. i'm looking forward to saving lots of money this year. thanks for this great piece of software!
14:23:24 <warlord> laga: you're welcome.
14:23:32 <warlord> jmd: sounds like you have bigger issues than finances! ;-)
14:24:26 <jmd> Perhaps I also don't want her to see those regular payments I'm making to pornofilth.com inc. !!
14:25:07 <laga> that's not even a real porn site. i'm disappointed.
14:28:49 *** kpreid has quit IRC
14:29:12 <warlord> jmd: i repeat my last statement.. if you're hiding this kind of stuff from your spouse then you have bigger issues than just trying to limit access to financial data. :)
14:29:41 <warlord> Anyways, no, GnuCash wont do that now, and not for the foreseeable future.
14:30:02 <warlord> Any sharing will be full-datafile sharing, even in a database
14:33:19 <jmd> Perhaps someone needs to start a Gnupsych project ....
14:33:24 <jsled> heh
14:34:09 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
14:36:27 <warlord> lol
14:39:55 <kimmo> I have to limit my wife's access to my financials, as there's a world of difference between what we consider "secure enough to spend an extra $400"
14:41:57 <jmd> ... it looks like Gnucash is going to be responsible for breaking up a lot of marriages ....
14:42:12 <kimmo> (That, and I'd rather not explain for the umpteenth time why reasonable investment leverage makes sense, and why "I could never buy <this $150 piece of clothing> if the shop didn't offer 6 easy payments of $30" is inherently idiotic)
14:43:13 <jmd> That's what "investment leverage" means isn't it?
14:43:32 <kimmo> sure, if you can rent out the stupid dress
14:43:46 <kimmo> which, not surprisingly, looks to me just like any other black dress she has
14:43:52 <warlord> What, you don't want to pay $180 over 6 months for a $150 dress? ;)
14:44:01 <jmd> Whether or not it's "reasonable" is another matter.
14:44:10 <kimmo> warlord, she does, cause she could never afford the $150
14:44:47 <kimmo> no matter how I look at it, the word "afford" should never have been invented
14:47:22 <jmd> On the other hand, if that dress would attract an extra 7 customers a week, over a 6 month period, it would be a shrewd business investment ....
14:47:36 <kimmo> sure
14:48:15 <kimmo> then again, my wife's a stay at home mom, so her having shitloads of fance dresses doesn't exactly make much financial sense
14:48:47 <laga> not sure how a dress would attract customers anyways
14:49:19 <helix7> jmd: If you're only "hiding" (for lack of a better word) a small number of accounts from your spouse, you should just create a separate data file for those. The shared expenses can be in a shared data file with your shared bank accounts.
14:50:54 <jmd> helix7, But I can't make transactions between accounts in different files, can I?
14:51:52 <helix7> You have to make sure you spend from the correct accounts. But yest, transfers between accounts will have to be done twice.
14:52:58 <helix7> And you will have to close one file to open the other.
14:59:25 <helix7> I'm guessing that your expenses will partition pretty well between the data files.
15:11:56 *** artificial11000 has joined #gnucash
15:12:02 <artificial11000> hi
15:12:39 <artificial11000> is it possible to display expense budgets next to the related account?
15:15:43 <jmd> artificial11000, What do you mean "related account"?
15:17:39 <artificial11000> e.g. i created a budget for the expense account "software"
15:18:08 <artificial11000> now i want to display this budget on the screen where all my accounts are listed
15:19:12 <artificial11000> to keep an eye on the expense and see if they exceed the budget
15:22:10 <jmd> artificial11000, Create a new window and put them next to each other using your window manager.
15:23:04 *** kpreid has quit IRC
15:23:43 <artificial11000> hmm ok, thanks
15:29:52 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
15:30:21 <warlord> artificial11000: no, there is no "budget" column in the Chart of Accounts
15:30:53 <warlord> I *believe* you can just run a budget report to see the budgeted v. actual numbers side-by-side.
15:31:10 <warlord> (but i've never used that feature)
15:32:00 <artificial11000> yes reports are possible, but i thought i could define a column
15:32:11 <artificial11000> thanks anyway :)
15:33:39 *** artificial11000 has left #gnucash
15:40:44 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
16:02:11 *** ErKa has quit IRC
16:32:09 *** jmd has quit IRC
16:50:49 *** fbond has quit IRC
17:21:45 *** warlord has quit IRC
17:47:11 *** unstable has joined #gnucash
18:05:35 *** markjenkinsparit has quit IRC
18:48:54 <linas_> fell, jsled, who admins the website? Could we make the home page a little smaller (thus faster to download?)
18:49:29 <linas_> bnadwidth to the server hoevers at 75% of max, and often hits 100%; I'd like to get it down a little.
18:55:32 <fell> linas_: HNY. Probably we should remove in http://www.gnucash.org/download.phtml #source the us mirror link?
18:56:06 <linas_> I don't mind the downloads, it doesn't bother me.
18:56:09 <fell> Or can you say something from the page hits?
18:56:15 <linas_> I just notices that the home page was huge
18:56:54 <linas_> I just got an email complaing about download speed, and just happened to notice the home page was huge
18:57:19 <linas_> web page hits are up since christmas
19:00:30 <fell> Yeah, a new release after over one year ready at christmas holydays.
19:02:55 <fell> If the main page is the problem, we should reduce the number of anouncements 2.2.13-2.4.0.
19:10:28 *** felle has joined #gnucash
19:10:29 *** gncbot sets mode: +o felle
19:16:59 *** Askarii has joined #gnucash
19:18:51 *** fell has quit IRC
19:21:21 *** laga has quit IRC
19:21:33 *** IRC has joined #gnucash
19:30:30 <IRC> Hi. I've just upgraded gnucash from 2.2.9 to 2.4.0, and all the text has changed from English to French. Anyone got any idea how to fix this?
19:32:42 *** IRC has quit IRC
19:33:06 <Askarii> yuppers
19:33:15 <Askarii> installed on windows mac or linux?
19:33:22 <Askarii> bah
19:33:25 <Askarii> he left
19:34:02 *** MikeLW has joined #gnucash
19:35:11 *** felle is now known as fell
19:36:31 <fell> IRC got a new record: 2 seconds waiting for the answer!
19:38:03 <Askarii> lol
19:38:28 <MikeLW> I've just changed nickname from IRC to MikeLW. Sorry for any confusion. Haven't used IRC in Adium before.
19:39:11 <Askarii> you are IRC ?
19:39:27 <Askarii> the one who needed help with french/english?
19:39:42 <MikeLW> Yes, well, I was, now I'm MikeLW!
19:39:58 <Askarii> okay
19:40:03 <Askarii> what OS ?
19:40:33 <MikeLW> Mac OSX 10.6.5 (Snow Leopard)
19:41:14 <jsled> MikeLW: btw, you can usually change nick with the /nick command.
19:41:23 <jsled> though it is client specific.
19:41:41 <jsled> linas_: maybe you shouldn't host it on your home server?
19:41:45 <Askarii> well, i don't know WHERE that file is in MAC, but go to your Gnucash installation directory and search for "environment" file
19:41:55 <Askarii> instructions are in that file
19:41:56 <jsled> but it should be easy to reduce the number of news items down.
19:41:59 <Askarii> on how to translate
19:42:10 <jsled> ~200k is a bit excessive, true
19:43:01 *** hasnainj has joined #gnucash
19:43:25 <linas_> jsled, you've got a better hosting idea?
19:47:32 <jsled> I don't have a horse in this race anymore, but I'd guess derek wouldn't mind. or dreamhost ($9/mo). Or there's probably a top-tier web hosting outfit that would have a foss discount, eg http://csoft.net/
19:49:03 <Askarii> u guys looking to host what exactly?
19:50:24 <linas_> looking. gnucash.org is about 20x-50x larger than the "average small business" website where one can get "unlimited" bandwidth for $5/$10 month
19:50:28 <linas_> so I'm leery
19:50:48 <jsled> larger in terms of?
19:51:04 <fell> MikeLW: British english has a problem on MacOS: https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2011-January/037796.html
19:51:19 <MikeLW> Askarii: I can't find a file called environment anywhere in the Gnucash installation directory
19:51:31 <Askarii> hmm
19:51:37 <Askarii> well thats what it is in windows
19:51:40 <Askarii> check the wiki
19:51:45 <Askarii> maybe its very diff for MAC
19:54:32 <MikeLW> fell: That doesn't help, I already have "English" in my System Preferences languages list.
19:56:33 <linas_> jsled, last I had the conversation, the "typical" small busines website did about 1-3GB/month, and I'm getting maybe 70-100GB/month
19:59:12 <linas_> Hmm gnucash.org averages 144GB/month over the last year (55.6kB/sec)
19:59:26 <linas_> if I did the math right
20:00:10 <linas_> and for the last 3 months, its been about 75kB/month
20:00:21 <linas_> it shot up at the start of october, don't know why
20:00:26 *** hasnainj_ has joined #gnucash
20:00:39 <linas_> err mid-late october
20:02:06 <linas_> 75kB/sec I mean
20:02:49 <fell> MikeLW: and we are talking about the Quartz package, not MacPorts ore something else?
20:04:41 <MikeLW> fell: Yes, quartz.
20:05:50 <MikeLW> I've just found a workaround: If I put English first, before British English in the System Preferences languages list, then it's OK.
20:06:40 *** Askarii has left #gnucash
20:07:42 *** hasnainj has quit IRC
20:08:09 <fell> Ah, nice to hear. You should probably watch the mailing list for Johns fix.
20:13:56 <MikeLW> I found the workaround by searching the wiki, where it's mentioned in the Mac Readme files up to ver 2.3.17, but it's been removed in the 2.4.0 version. This makes it seem like somebody thinks it's been fixed. Is John working on it?
20:18:55 <fell> Yes, above mail was written a week after the release.
20:42:36 *** kpreid_ has joined #gnucash
20:42:37 *** kpreid has quit IRC
20:42:37 *** kpreid_ is now known as kpreid
21:15:51 *** scar has joined #gnucash
21:18:01 <scar> i need help getting an accurate income report... i think it's screwed up because of the way i create/post invoices
21:19:26 <scar> i am running a self-storage business, so the invoices are all month-to-month. when i create an invoice, i set the date, due date, and post date to the same "due date"
21:20:31 <scar> so, if i create an invoice that isn't due till next month... that gets counted towards next month's income
21:21:08 <scar> if the customer comes in and wants to pay for 2 months ... then my income report doesn't show that i've taken in that much
21:24:09 <scar> at the same time... if an invoice goes unpaid, it still gets counted towards the month's income... so i'm confused how to get an accurate income statement
21:25:42 *** MikeLW has quit IRC
21:32:41 <scar> maybe i want something like the 'cash flow' report?
21:49:42 <scar> that seems to be what i'm looking for
22:35:58 <unstable> What is good software to manage all my finances for 2011? I want to get shiny graphs, and so on. maybe even an android app, I always pay cash. to be able to track my salary, rent, car insurance, bills, food, investments, etc etc...
22:36:27 <unstable> Is GNUCash the best for that? or something else? I tried mint.com, it isn't as customizable as I would like though.
22:39:50 <fell> scar: the business module is accrual based, not cash based.
22:41:25 <fell> income is generated on invoice post date, not pay date.
22:42:36 <fell> so yes the cash flow report might be better for your purpose.
22:59:04 <scar> thanks
23:00:36 <fell> unstable: it depends on your situation and targets, so nobody can say in general this is the best or that.
23:01:17 <fell> there are many programs out in the wild:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software
23:05:59 <fell> BTW. somebody should update further details of gnucash: a) SQL is in the last stable, b) I count 37 languages.
23:06:38 <unstable> fell: I saw that list, but I assume everyone in here has a lot of experience with the apps.. I was hoping for a 'this one is the best in my opinion'.
23:07:46 <fell> Some Questions you should answer yourself for the selection:
23:08:04 <fell> business vs. private use,
23:08:18 <fell> language support,
23:09:31 <fell> platform: desktop app, mobile app, webbased (IMHO insecurer) ...
23:10:14 <fell> double entry accounting (universal) or category trees
23:11:02 <fell> but now it is time for bed at least for me. CU
23:12:36 <fell> but my personal opinion after a few trials of other packages: gnucash :-)
23:13:19 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
23:50:45 *** kpreid_ has joined #gnucash
23:50:46 *** kpreid has quit IRC
23:50:46 *** kpreid_ is now known as kpreid