2010-12-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:29:39 <deepthink> good job with 2.4! Congratulations. Will it be possible for two people to work on the same set of accounts if two clients access the same SQL backend?
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05:23:11 <warlord> deepthink: no
05:23:16 <warlord> not until 2.6 (hopefully)
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05:32:09 <micha> Hi, I just tried to build Gnucash 2.4.0 from source on Debian sid/unstable. Make fails in src/pixmaps: No rule to make target `../../art/tango/16x16/gnucash.png', needed by `16x16/gnucash-icon.png'
05:32:19 <micha> Is there a reason why the entire art folder is not part of the tarball?
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08:55:25 <indigo> anyone ever have luck configuring online banking? I'm trying to get it working with my amex account, and i'm not really sure what to put in the fields, and when i guess, i get a crash when i try to get balance.
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08:59:54 <mentalstring> hi. quick question that i could not find on the FAQ. the link to download the macosx 2.4.0 intel version seems to be broken. and i can't find the downloadable .dmg anywhere. is this known/in progress?
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09:07:52 <fell> indigo: did you read http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings ?
09:10:38 <indigo> fell: i did
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09:11:15 <warlord> if your bank isn't in that list then your next step would be to ask on gnucash-user.. Or check the online ofx resource pages.
09:11:19 <indigo> there are way more fields than that wiki page covers
09:11:22 <warlord> That setup is completely out of our control.
09:11:44 <indigo> i think i found some forum post of someone who got it working for amex
09:14:16 <warlord> are you trying to get it working with amex?
09:14:36 <indigo> yes
09:15:02 <warlord> well, can you ask them what they did?
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09:15:48 <indigo> working through it now
09:16:00 <warlord> ok
09:16:14 <indigo> i was hoping there's a more direct route, but it sounds like there's not
09:16:34 <indigo> it's very difficult since there's not much indication of if it's working or not
09:19:55 <indigo> hey hey, it's asking for a password. progress!
09:20:47 <fell> Eventually somebody could update http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings ?
09:20:55 <indigo> i will
09:21:06 <indigo> i think it's working.
09:21:13 <indigo> it's asking me if i want to import balance information
09:21:20 <indigo> how does that work?
09:22:52 <fell> mentalstring: Is http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gnucash/Gnucash-Intel-2.4.0.dmg broken?
09:26:34 <warlord> fell: I think mentalstring left.
09:28:12 <fell> Yeah, had only 6 minutes for the problem.
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09:28:26 <warlord> some people have no patience..
09:29:19 <deepblue> the macosx 2.40 intel build seems to be missing. when ETA for it?
09:32:02 <warlord> deepblue: I believe it should be up by now. JRalls sent email last night.
09:32:09 <warlord> (gotta run -- be back in ~30m)
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09:32:23 <deepblue> fell: i was here before has 'mentalstring' - my connection dropped, but i see in the logs you replied me. and the answer is no, the link http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gnucash/Gnucash-Intel-2.4.0.dmg does not work
09:32:51 <deepblue> warlord: the link is broken and on the 2.4.0 folder only the PPC version is there, no Intel one - http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash%20(stable)/2.4.0/
09:34:20 * fell scans the mailing list ...
09:38:24 <fell> Ah, there was a problem reported in the https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2010-December/037589.html thread.
09:46:33 <deepblue> fell: seems i'll have to wait. pity because i've snow leopard in which it seems to work (tiger is the problem), but there's no dmg file anymore. anyhow, will try later. cheers!
09:47:31 <fell> cheers!
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10:43:45 <zokum> I installed it, however, the norwegian translation is horrible - spelling errors etc, and a lot isn't translated - i ended up with the same accounts in both english in norwegian etc
10:44:15 <zokum> where do i set language preferences, i'd rather have it all in english than a mish mash like it is now
10:44:38 <warlord> zokum: what OS/Distro? GnuCash generally uses the system locale setting for language.
10:44:54 <zokum> windows xp
10:45:02 <warlord> What version of GnuCash?
10:45:14 <zokum> 2.4.0, just installed it
10:45:32 <warlord> Ah. There is a config file for it.. Let's see if I can find it.
10:45:44 * warlord doesn't use Windows
10:46:08 <zokum> i have one windows pc, and hmmm, a bunch of linux servers :)
10:46:14 <warlord> Heh
10:46:30 <zokum> i'd be happy to translate some of the missing stuff if there's a decent way to do it
10:46:45 <zokum> and fix some of the grammatical errors
10:46:59 <warlord> in nb?
10:47:04 <zokum> yeah
10:47:11 <zokum> if that means norwegian bokmål
10:47:16 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation
10:47:21 <warlord> Yeah, that's nb
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10:49:15 <warlord> zokum: try looking for something like 'etc/gnucash/environment' in your gnucash Program Files tree?
10:49:43 <zokum> i actually seems to have found it on the link you pasted
10:49:58 <zokum> If you are running GnuCash on Windows, you can set the interface language by editing the file "gnucash.cmd" in the folder "C:\Program Files\gnucash\bin" (or wherever you installed GnuCash into). If you want to change the default language to English, you should add the line:
10:50:03 <zokum> so, thanks :)
10:50:53 <warlord> That instruction is old and I don't think it applies to 2.4
10:51:57 <zokum> yeah, seems so
10:52:45 <zokum> ok, found it
10:54:16 <warlord> feel free to update the wiki to point to the new location for 2.4, please/
10:54:17 <warlord> ?
10:54:53 <zokum> well, i need to make it work first
10:55:13 <zokum> i tried adding LANG=no_NB
10:55:26 <warlord> No, it would be nb_NO
10:55:30 <zokum> no errors, so will try us english or something
10:55:31 <zokum> oh, ok
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10:55:52 <warlord> (if you want Norwegian Bokmål)
10:55:52 <zokum> so it's sub type, main language, k
10:56:18 <warlord> No, it's <language>_<country/regional>
10:56:33 <warlord> so, e.g.: en_US (vs en_GB, en_CA, en_AU, ...)
10:56:47 <zokum> then no_NB make more sense
10:56:59 <zokum> since it's norwegian, bokmål sub type
10:57:47 <warlord> is Bokmål a geographic region?
10:57:49 <fell> nb_NO = norsk bokmål in Norge
10:58:11 <zokum> warlord: no, it doesn't really fit into that scheme tbh
10:58:17 <warlord> well, en_US == "American English" (vs. en_GB == British English)
10:58:31 <zokum> norwegian has two written versions, bokmål and nynorsk
10:58:37 <zokum> they're both norwegian
10:58:54 <zokum> slightly different grammar and spelling
10:59:01 <warlord> I guess they consider no_NO and nb_NO
10:59:06 <fell> nn_NO = nynorsk in Norge
10:59:19 <warlord> Oh, nn, not no. Okay
10:59:41 <warlord> Anyways, they are considered different languages for the same geographic area.
10:59:50 <zokum> ah, ok
10:59:51 <warlord> Sort of like there is en_CA and fr_CA
11:00:00 <zokum> that sort of makes sense
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11:03:34 <takamichi> I'm desperate to find a way to auto import Paypal transactions into a gnucash account. Im try to get the jgnucasheditor program to work but it always fails. Has anyone managed to get this working?
11:03:46 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation#Naming_Convention has links to the tables.
11:05:00 <warlord> takamichi: jgnucash* does not belong to us; it's a completely separate project (that just happens to read and theoretically write) gnucash-format data files. You will need to contact them for support. Sorry.
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11:05:21 <warlord> As for importing from PayPal -- does PayPal give you access to either a QIF or OFX file? If so you could import that using GnuCash
11:06:21 <takamichi> warlord: Thank you, I know they are seperate project, I was also just wondering if there was any other solutions which could auto import Paypal transactions?
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11:07:19 <warlord> takamichi: I don't know; what format(s) does PP give you?
11:07:48 <takamichi> QIF, CSV, TSV etc... the usual suspects.
11:08:55 <warlord> Download QIF, then from GnuCash File -> Import -> QIF
11:09:07 <fell> IIRC newer aqbanking versions also support paypal, but nobody adjusted the gnucash-aqbanking interface
11:10:20 <takamichi> warlord: thanks thts how I currently do it but I am looking for an automated solution with some intelligence to prevent dupes etc. The jgnucashlib project has a plugin that does precisely this.
11:10:48 <takamichi> Ive emailed the project leader for jgnucashlib, but no response, looks dead to me.
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11:14:41 <warlord> takamichi: preventing dups is a harder problem; doing it in an automated way even harder still.
11:15:10 <takamichi> warlod: yes, I have no doubt
11:16:10 <warlord> If PP provided OFX (and 'proper' OFX at that) then the OFX importer would use the <FITID> tags for duplicate detection
11:17:31 <takamichi> Yes, that would be awesome
11:17:45 <warlord> Does PP provide OFX?
11:18:38 <takamichi> No
11:19:24 <warlord> Ah, too bad
11:20:42 <takamichi> I havnt tried accessing Paypal through aqbanking.. but you said the interface was lacking.. Whats the problem there? Maybe that might help us..
11:21:31 <takamichi> Is there no backend provider for Paypal yet?
11:23:00 <warlord> I don't know.
11:23:08 <warlord> I suspect GnuCash doesn't know about the AqB PP Backend.
11:23:24 <takamichi> yes, it doesnt seem so
11:23:42 <takamichi> warlord: thanks for your help, I didnt expect someone to help me! Cheers
11:24:04 <warlord> You're welcome.
11:24:16 <warlord> Sorry I didn't help solve the problem.
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11:59:11 <fell> The readme of aqbanking 5 mentions paypal, but I am not the aqbanking expert. Eventually somody should ask cstim?
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12:02:13 <gour> g'afternoon
12:03:01 <gour> is it realistic to expect something from http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Roadmap#Reports in gnc in not too distant future?
12:06:24 <fell> Sure, if you file patches. ;-)
12:07:17 <gour> fell: heh, i'm even not sure i can customize invoice reports as i'd like which still holds me from diving into gnc
12:11:11 <fell> I believe, there are some useful tips in http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Using_GnuCash ,http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports and the FAQ.
12:14:52 <gour> i'd like to see items mentioned in roadmap's Reports section implemented...it's too difficult for end-users to customize reports...that's why i still look at some php invoicing-only apps, although i'm aware gnc is much better piece of code, more complete, featureful etc.
12:25:51 <indigo> heh
12:25:53 <indigo> "In the second decade of the 21st century, surely it's time to allow gradual replacement with proper object-oriented code written in an object-oriented language."
12:30:12 <indigo> i mean seriously, it's been like 2010 years since christ died, and you still aren't using an object oriented language? sheesh.
12:30:36 <fell> real man ...
12:31:26 <fell> I am happy, we are not sticking at ASM. ;-)
12:31:33 <indigo> aww
12:34:15 <warlord> LOL
12:34:24 <warlord> As always, patches are welcome!
12:35:43 <warlord> gour: What reporting do you really need to do that GnuCash can't do for you?
12:35:54 <indigo> well, my eyes perked up a bit when i read that because i'm a python programmer and unit test nazi
12:35:58 <warlord> .. and have you written up a full functional spec of the required report(s)?
12:37:41 <indigo> it just seems a bit extreme for a project to say, "hey, let's rewrite in another language"
12:37:54 <warlord> indigo: it is.
12:38:11 <indigo> is it a notion that has any traction, or did someone just put that on the wiki?
12:38:21 <gour> warlord: i believe reports are not problem, i'd just need an easy way to customize look of default invoice...adding several lines required here in crotia, playing logo somewhere etc...moreover i'm certain gnc can do it, i'm just not sure that I can teach gnc what to do :-)
12:38:23 <warlord> I dont think anyone is seriously considering it.
12:38:44 <indigo> warlord: but it's the second decade of the 21st century!
12:38:46 <warlord> gour: in 2.4 you can use the e-guile Tax Invoice.
12:39:03 <warlord> indigo: technically it is not, until next year.
12:39:24 <gour> warlord: can one freely add labels, place logo etc?
12:40:09 <indigo> warlord: are you sure? aren't years 0-9 the first decade, 10-19 the second?
12:40:38 <gour> warlord: the point is that whatever 'invoicing' app i choose (gnc, myclientbase, simpleinvoices), i'd need to translate it into croatian which is not small task...that's why i want to be sure to make a right choice ;)
12:43:03 <warlord> gour: sure, it's just an HTML template!
12:43:08 <gour> warlord: in regard to yesterday inquiry about custom numbering scheme...it's not required, but it's convenient...i see that myclientbase (php app) added something in recent release, as well as simpleinvoices...
12:43:13 <warlord> indigo: there was no "year 0"
12:43:39 <gour> hmm...maybe i should try playing with it and ask when/if i hit some wall...
12:44:14 <gour> in any case, i'd like to have more data stored than just creating invoices
12:44:24 <warlord> gour: having a UI interface to set the counter would a relatively small programming task.
12:45:17 <gour> warlord: what about something like date-based counter, as i said: e.g. number-mm-yyyy ?
12:45:56 <gour> or it should just go straigh incrementally?
12:47:06 <warlord> It's going to go incrementally. You could use a date-counter like 2011XXXX
12:47:13 <warlord> you couldn't make it XXXX2011
12:49:40 <gour> but one could manually add in a template static text based on the date of e.g. issuing invoice XXXX-mm-yyyy,so that invoice is printed like that, while only XXXX would be stored in back-end? right?
12:51:11 <gour> the option which is often required (i hit it several times) is to somehow 'reset' counter at the beginning of a new year
12:51:29 <kimmo> how often does new year occur in your country?
12:52:42 <gour> once every 365 or 366 days :-)
12:53:08 <kimmo> yeah so you need the button on average once every 121.75 days?
12:53:34 <gour> why button?
12:53:55 <kimmo> assuming from the "i hit it"
12:54:11 <gour> s/i hit/i stumbled upon
12:54:12 <gour> :-D
12:55:18 <gour> to the two above-referenced invoicing apps such features was requested...
12:57:28 <warlord> gour: I suspect you could possibly do something like that, yes.
12:57:48 <gour> warlord: that's encouraging to hear... ;)
12:57:50 <warlord> You could take the post date, figure out the year and month, and form the invoice# that way.
12:58:09 <gour> that would be great and good-enough
12:58:45 <warlord> It would require a little scheme hacking
12:59:10 <gour> yeah...that's bad-part :-/
13:00:39 <gour> OT: do you recommend using sqlite3 back-end in 2.4?
13:05:39 * warlord is still using XML
13:06:20 <gour> ok...gnc uses *.po for translations?
13:06:24 <warlord> yes
13:07:53 <gour> huh...i'm going to try tweak invoices to get what i need and if i manage to customize numbering scheme somehow, i'll add croatian translation...
13:10:55 <blathijs> gour: I've got a few patches to set a custom format for invoice numbers
13:11:15 <gour> blathijs: really? that would be God-send :-)
13:11:33 <gour> blathijs: are those patches going to be appkied in upstream?
13:11:45 <blathijs> but that would only allow a printf-style format based on an incrementing number, so 2010XXXX like warlord suggests would be possible (but you'd have to change to 2011XXXX manually next year)
13:11:48 <gour> it's nice to see i'm not the only one wanting it
13:12:11 <gour> not a big deal...
13:12:18 * gour is dol-ing en_GB lang file
13:12:26 <blathijs> gour: The GUI part of the patches is still a bit iffy: I'm trying to do stuff that doesn't really fit with the current kvp scheme there
13:13:23 <gour> blathijs: patches are against 2.4?
13:13:40 <gour> btw, en_GB is not small...
13:13:40 <blathijs> svn trunk just before 2.4
13:13:48 <blathijs> I'm pushing my git repos now, hold on
13:14:00 <gour> no rush
13:18:15 <gour> blathijs: gnc is using svn?
13:18:22 * gour is now happy fossil user
13:18:54 <blathijs> gour: Yeah, but I've created a git-svn mirror of it :-)
13:19:20 <blathijs> gour: http://git.stderr.nl/gitweb?p=matthijs/upstream/gnucash.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/counter-formats
13:19:24 <warlord> yes, we use svn
13:20:40 <blathijs> warlord: Now that I've pushed the patches, do you have any comments on how ugly or acceptable this one is? http://git.stderr.nl/gitweb?p=matthijs/upstream/gnucash.git;a=commitdiff;h=41f32dcd03ad0710654173e83e4d37412072ba86
13:21:14 * gour has crossed fingers so that warlord allow applying them :-)
13:22:26 <blathijs> warlord: "I don't have time right now" or "I don't feel like reading a patch right now" are also perfectly acceptable answers, btw :-)
13:22:51 <warlord> blathijs: why do you need srfi?
13:23:10 * gour --> help in the kitchen, dinner and then bbs
13:23:41 <warlord> I don't like the hard-coded list of counters.
13:24:48 <warlord> Also, the strings aren't marked for translation, and the "broken" translations are bad-translation syntax.
13:25:34 <blathijs> warlord: I think srfi-1 is for the (list ...) function
13:25:54 <blathijs> warlord: Any suggestions on where to get the list of counters from instead?
13:25:57 <warlord> Nah, list is base scheme
13:26:11 <warlord> Um... that's a good question.
13:26:17 <warlord> (I don't have a good answer)
13:27:18 <warlord> You also don't export the gnc:make-counter-format-option symbol
13:27:25 <warlord> .. and nowhere do you *use* these options.
13:27:53 <blathijs> perhaps somewhere in qof, but it's not unlikely this list of options is not currently defined anywhere yet
13:29:09 <blathijs> warlord: Ah, srfi-1 is for "zip", but it should be in business-pref.scm instead
13:29:11 <warlord> true, it's completely pluggable.
13:29:19 <warlord> zip?
13:29:48 <blathijs> http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#TheProcedures <-- scroll down a bit there
13:31:37 <warlord> Oh, bad idea... Those numbers could change!
13:32:44 <warlord> But you could probably re-write it w/o using zip.
13:32:55 <blathijs> warlord: It seems that somehow stuff from business-options.scm leaks into business-prefs.scm. You're right that I forgot to export gnc:make-counter-format-option, but it is still used in business-pref.scm
13:33:08 <blathijs> warlord: Which numbers? The 1 in srfi-1 ?
13:33:27 <warlord> Based on your comment: +;; Number each counter, so we can generate a sort order below
13:35:05 <warlord> Also, 'list-tabulate' is also in srfi-1. But I don't understand why you need it.
13:35:14 <warlord> What's wrong with (sort) ?
13:35:54 <zokum> starting to get the hang of gnucash
13:36:05 <zokum> it could definetly save me a lot of time :)
13:36:10 <blathijs> Each option has a sort-key, there is some other (existing) piece of code that sorts all options based on that key
13:36:14 <warlord> zokum: excellent
13:37:01 <blathijs> warlord: And to make sure that the counter value and counter format of each counter get sorted directly below each other, I need a unique value for each counter
13:37:15 <blathijs> warlord: The actual numbers don't really matter, though
13:37:18 <zokum> i guess running what i do with so much money going in and out, without any real accounting system is a tad unwise :D
13:37:35 <zokum> but things are looking better, but adding everything i have done this year, is boring
13:37:49 <warlord> blathijs: Why not make the counter as part of the lambda that builds the options page?
13:38:31 <warlord> zokum: yeah, but once it's all in, going forward it'll be easy to track day-to-day.
13:38:40 <warlord> .. and then you can see where you spent all your money.
13:38:56 <blathijs> warlord: Ah, right, just keep a counter and increment that
13:39:13 <blathijs> warlord: I guess I've been thinking a bit from my Haskell-background here
13:39:36 <blathijs> warlord: I also just realized that I can probably just use the counter name as the sort key as well
13:39:36 <warlord> Heh.
13:39:45 <zokum> warlord: yeah, i do know where i spend my money
13:40:18 <zokum> mostly on food it seems, about 7000 pound to various dinners and lunches
13:40:28 <warlord> blathijs: theoretically you could, yes.
13:40:49 <zokum> my main problem is in finding the right account for stuff, for example, what do you put "buying award statue for 250 pound" into?
13:41:24 <blathijs> warlord: Considering the sort key is already a string, that would also save all that trouble of converting a number to a string
13:43:50 <warlord> zokum: i dont know.. Expenses:Gifts? Expenses:Awards?
13:44:03 <warlord> blathijs: :)
13:45:14 <zokum> i guess
13:45:29 <zokum> and there are loads of other really odd ones
13:45:44 <blathijs> zokum: I guess it mostly depends on what kind of information you want to get out of your books
13:45:45 <zokum> since this is a student society, a lot of our stuff is really odd
13:46:12 <zokum> we don't have all the 'usual' stuff, and a lot of different accounts, one for each sub club
13:46:35 <blathijs> zokum: E.g., think about who you will be presenting the yearly report to and what they would want to know
13:46:38 <zokum> and shitloads of money just going in and out without much documentation
13:46:44 <zokum> yeah, i agree
13:47:08 <zokum> i mostly need to see that the different clubs aren't spending more money than they're getting in
13:47:20 <zokum> except when buying long term stuff
13:47:37 <blathijs> zokum: So in the case of you award statue (which I assume is a prize in a competition of sorts), think about what competition it was for, or what committee/club organized the competition for example
13:48:26 <zokum> it's an award the student society gives to someone or something who has done a lot for youths in the community
13:48:39 <zokum> so, the money is taken from the main student society account
13:49:07 <zokum> my main problem is the ones done by others in their sub ckubs that have poor/no documentation
13:49:33 <zokum> which i will have to track down i guess
13:50:09 <zokum> like this one:
13:50:55 <zokum> 12th of may, someone took 2087 nok from the account spillklubben, with the message: some long number
13:51:13 <zokum> too long to be a phone number
13:51:15 <blathijs> warlord: Any thoughts on the way gnc:make-counter-option works (and make-counter-format-option as well)? They now call an existing option function (e.g., gnc:make-number-range-option) and then override the kvp->scm and scm->kvp functions with a new function that ignores the kvp path passed to it (which normally contains something like "options/Business/Company Email Adress")
13:52:17 <blathijs> zokum: Sounds like you also need some mechanisms and procedures to ensure all expenses are properly documented and approved, perhaps :-)
13:52:43 <zokum> yeah. there are
13:52:51 <zokum> they're just not being followed
13:53:12 <zokum> luckily, noone can cash out more money than there is in the account, and i can see all transactions
13:53:28 <zokum> and nowadays, very few have access, i removed most of it
13:53:58 <zokum> personally, i made a nice system using latex for each transaction
13:55:48 <blathijs> nice :-)
13:57:05 <zokum> i can talk pretty freely avout this, since it's public money
13:57:24 <zokum> and keeping things secret is just stupid, since i am doing this with the student body's trust
14:05:35 <gour> blathijs: do you still using haskell? i played with it for quite some time, but now decided to use D for some desktop app
14:05:58 <blathijs> gour: I did some work in Haskell for my Master's thesis, but haven't touched it since then
14:06:32 <gour> blathijs: i find D functional-enough, but more practical for my usage
14:07:01 * gour thinks about D2
14:07:54 <blathijs> Wouldn't that be D++ :-)
14:08:05 <blathijs> Haven't looked at D at all, though
14:08:18 <gour> heh...no, just D v.2
14:08:32 <gour> blathijs: i think you may like it
14:08:59 <gour> blathijs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_%28programming_language%29#D_2.0
14:22:27 <zokum> ok, question, what kind of account would you put to: found loads of money in a drawer in your office?
14:23:05 <warlord> Either "Income:Found money" or "Equity:Found money"
14:23:14 <zokum> ok
14:23:46 <zokum> i think we overall found about 2000 usd :|
14:25:18 <gour> i mobile gnc won't be good-enough, i wonder if anyone is accessing gnc remotely via ssh tunnel?
14:30:17 <blathijs> 19:24:48 <@warlord> Also, the strings aren't marked for translation, and the "broken" translations are bad-translation syntax. <-- What did you mean by the latter part?
14:31:04 <blathijs> The former part is somewhat intentional (not marking the list of counter names for translation), since the strings are also used to identify the counters, not just display them
14:32:48 <warlord> blathijs: ("This is a %s thingy", type) is generally considered bad for translating, because 'type' could have multiple forms in different languages so the word choice might be different.
14:33:03 <warlord> Similarly, the rest of the sentence construct might vary depending on the 'type'.
14:33:50 <blathijs> warlord: So the proper way to do this would be to have a big list with literal strings like "Invoice number format", "Last customer number", etc?
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14:34:19 <blathijs> That does add a new challenge to the "don't put the counter types in a hard-coded list", of course
14:39:31 <warlord> Yeah, well.
14:40:26 <warlord> I think you can probably make a list. You just might want to consider how you synchronize the option list with the underlying counters
14:40:48 <blathijs> probably just by making a nested list, I guess
14:41:49 <blathijs> (list (list "Invoice" (N_ "Invoice number format") (N_ "Last invoice number")) (list "Bill" etc.
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14:46:41 <warlord> blathijs: yeah..
14:58:43 <gour> blathijs: you also use xml as back-end?
15:03:43 <blathijs> gour: Yes
15:03:56 <blathijs> warlord: Did you see my previous question (at 19:51) regarding the somewhat shady generation of options?
15:06:20 <warlord> blathijs: 1951 in what timezone? (it's only 1506 here right now)
15:06:39 <blathijs> warlord: 15 minutes ago
15:06:44 <blathijs> uh
15:06:47 <blathijs> 1:15 ago
15:08:27 <warlord> Ah, that one. I think that approach is *probably* okay..
15:09:33 <blathijs> warlord: I've been sitting on that patch for a few months now, and I haven't thought of any prettier way :-)
15:10:07 <blathijs> warlord: I guess I'll just polish up that patch series with your comments and submit them in a bug report, then
15:10:11 <blathijs> warlord: Thanks for the review :-)
15:10:19 <warlord> You're welcome.
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16:19:07 <fell> MacOS users, JFYI: 16:47 UTC the link was fixed.
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16:24:14 <brian> is it possible to transfer money using GNUcash?
16:35:32 <warlord> brian: only if you are german, with a german bank. GnuCash cannot initiate transactions via anything other than the German HBCI protocol.
16:36:06 <brian> is there any program i can get which will do that?
16:36:28 <warlord> Quicken?
16:39:18 <warlord> (I know of no open source apps that will do it)
16:39:50 <warlord> the problem is that the protocol is controlled by Intuit, and nobody has a "test server" with which to test open source software.
16:45:48 <fell> One could also send transactions using german DTA or SWIFTs MTxxx files.
16:46:49 <warlord> I suspect brian is in the US
16:46:59 <warlord> So I don't think DTA or SWIFT applies.
16:47:17 <fell> SWIFT is international.
16:47:47 <brian> yeah in from the US
16:48:05 <brian> im*
16:49:05 <warlord> Yeah. Only thing we really have here is OFS
16:49:06 <warlord> OFX
16:49:09 <brian> yeah
16:50:11 <brian> well
16:50:23 <brian> so I'm trying to set this up for online banking
16:50:28 <brian> and i get to the AqBanking wizard
16:50:34 <warlord> Right. GnuCash can read transactions.
16:50:48 <brian> but where do I find all of this information
16:50:50 <brian> backend
16:50:53 <brian> institute
16:50:57 <brian> etc.
16:51:15 <brian> I don't even know the difference between a User and an account
16:51:37 <brian> and, to make things worse
16:51:39 <brian> when i hit help
16:51:46 <brian> All I get is the following message:
16:52:00 <brian> Sorry - the help chapter qbcfgtabsettings.html#QBCfgTabPageUsers is not available.
16:52:50 <brian> and how does one find a bank ID?
16:52:59 <brian> what is the difference between a user ID and a customer Id
16:53:04 <brian> sorry for so many questions
16:56:05 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/AqBanking is somewhat HBCI centric.
16:57:09 <warlord> brian: have you looked into the "setting up ofx" page in the wiki?
16:57:25 <brian> nope
16:57:30 <brian> Didn't know it existed
16:57:39 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings
16:57:53 <brian> Suppose I have set this up all correctly
16:58:07 <brian> will it then automatically update it for me?
16:58:29 <brian> and let me see credit card purchases and ATM machine transactions and dates
16:58:32 <brian> without update?
16:59:33 <fell> and http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect_in_GnuCash_2
16:59:46 <warlord> brian: No, you will still have to tell it to get transactions.
17:01:46 <brian> But it's just the click of a button
17:02:09 <brian> and I do not have to go on my banks page to download the data?
17:02:28 <warlord> If you can get OFX-DC set up, that is correct.
17:03:12 <brian> Okay, good.
17:03:23 <brian> Why is there no option for automatic updates?
17:06:08 <fell> Nobody filed an enhancement request for an option automatic fetch of online banking in bugzilla.
17:06:51 <warlord> ... and nobody submitted the code to implement it.
17:09:55 <brian> ok
17:10:03 <brian> i think that would be a good feature
17:11:07 <brian> I'm surprised that feature isn't in GNUcash
17:11:11 <brian> considering how much is in GNUcash
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17:17:38 <warlord> Are you offering to implement it?
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17:20:30 <brian> I think that would be a learning experience
17:20:49 <brian> I've never done programming outside of making games in pygame and csharp really though
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17:23:12 <warlord> C is a wonderful language
17:27:31 <brian> I don't know how i'd even begin to work on that though
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17:36:36 <brian> How secure it GNUcash?
17:37:48 <brian> highly secure to be defined as I can configure it so no one (including someone who knows a lot about computers) wouldn't be able to find out information from GNUcash on my computer
17:37:59 <brian> would be*
17:39:49 <warlord> brian: Sure, use an encrypted filesystem
17:40:03 <brian> like Loop-AES?
17:41:18 <warlord> yeah.
17:41:28 <warlord> or encfs
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18:48:46 <rodvaN> Hello.. I was wondering if I can Upload the GNUCASH database on a server I got, and remotely use it on any pc with internet access ?
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22:24:36 <Anthony> what programming language is gnucash written in?
22:26:53 <warlord> Mostly C
22:27:02 <warlord> Some parts are in Scheme (like Reports)
22:27:28 <Mer|in> is there any kind of ERD for gnucash?
22:28:42 <warlord> ERD?
22:28:44 <Anthony> i just want to modify the scheduled transactions to have the 335 day limit removed and/or send non created scheduled transactions to the reports
22:28:49 <warlord> External Research Department?
22:28:55 <warlord> ;)
22:29:24 <warlord> Anthony: removing the limit is probably easier than getting them into reports. They don't... exist... before they are posted.
22:30:17 <Mer|in> entity relationship diagram - a graphic describing data entities, properties & relationships
22:30:39 <warlord> Um, not really. Maybe something from doxygen?
22:31:42 <Anthony> the hardest part will be figuring out what i need to use to debug and compile
22:32:04 <warlord> Anthony: well, search the sources for '335'
22:35:52 <Anthony> if i have time ill figure out what i need and then ill try to send scheduled transactions to reports, as well as fix the bug that causes me to need to reopen the entire program to create scheduled transactions in the ledger and additionally the non functionality of editing scheduled transactions.
22:36:32 <warlord> You dont need to reopen the entire program to get SXes to create. Actions -> Scheduled Transactions -> Since Last Run
22:37:09 <warlord> Editing SX templates only affect future postings. It doesn't affect already posted transactions.
22:37:21 <warlord> .. and editing a posted transaction doesn't affect the SX from which it came.
22:38:25 <warlord> Getting SXes into reports requires: 1) exporting the SX functionality into scheme, and 2) somehow dealing with the user input to handle SX variable expansion.
22:39:08 <warlord> (fixing the 335 should be simple)
22:40:49 <Anthony> it should be simple to borrow the code from which SX creation happens and then do something withit whether it be temporarily creating the transactions seconds before the report loads
22:41:46 <warlord> Umm... Well.. There is UI in there. Borrowing that isn't as simple as you'd think.
22:41:56 <warlord> Borrowing some of the other code.... May be a little more simple.
22:45:27 <Anthony> well for my own sanity i wouldnt care if the report starting buttons added years worth of transactions and then deleted those transactions.. even if i was seeing them for nearly any given time.. id be pumped that i can track the created SXes then delete them... as of now i have to create my SXes for them to go into the reports but if i need to focus on adjusting my income or expenses, i cannot easily remove created SXes
22:46:43 <warlord> This is true.
22:47:12 <warlord> well, I look forward to seeing your patch. This would require a combination of C and Scheme
22:48:43 <Anthony> heh me too. i actually failed c in high school. im just recently coding again. its been nearly 8 years
22:50:02 <warlord> no time like the present
22:50:41 <Anthony> if i get anything started ill work to enable some sort of way to externally save data at a user defined location on the net and then ill create an android widget so i can see my balance on my phone
22:54:24 <warlord> good luck with that.
22:57:31 <Anthony> :[
22:58:36 <Anthony> id only be looking to upload my balance upon saving
22:59:08 <warlord> ok
23:01:18 <Anthony> ok
23:12:15 <Anthony> will it be simple to use eclipse?
23:14:13 <warlord> probably not
23:16:13 <Anthony> this is going to be like that time i cut my gas tank out, removed the fuel pump and then connected it straight to the car battery and pumped gasoline onto myself
23:16:24 <warlord> ummmmmm
23:19:36 <Anthony> ive got revision 19983. what to do.. which ide can i plug this into to get on my merry way
23:21:04 * warlord uses emacs and "make"
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23:23:16 <Anthony> i need something to help me visually navigate around in the source.. so i can find whats running when what gets selected on the ui
23:25:29 <Anthony> i cant just notepad through this
23:29:13 <warlord> etags?
23:29:30 <warlord> Honestly, I have no idea if eclipse will work.
23:29:50 <warlord> The system is desgined to be /built/ using autoconf/configure/make commandline tools
23:30:59 <Anthony> well maybe i can just get to where im going in leafpad and throw in some modifications to which ever one of these files is exporting.c and then podt it up to see if you think it could work
23:31:27 <warlord> maybe. I *am* going to head to bed soon
23:31:32 <warlord> (as soon as the game is over)
23:32:39 <Anthony> ok. do you know which one of the files in the src/export-import is handling saving/,exporting in any formats
23:33:16 <warlord> there is no export in src/import-export
23:33:28 <warlord> (at least nothing that currently is tied into the system)
23:34:11 <Anthony> hmm where should i look to dig into the processing of saving
23:35:22 <Anthony> this is quite alien from androids on java
23:35:27 <warlord> src/backend/*
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