2010-10-15 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:01:41 <lupine_85> hrm. So now I have all my gnucash data in a postgres database, it's looking amenable to having a rails app stuck to it as well
04:01:58 <lupine_85> although, of course, it wouldn't be happy editing the DB at the same time as the gnucash GUI client
04:03:11 <lupine_85> ('tis just a thought, and I might have a play... I see the question of a web GUI has come up in the past, & it's not an integral part of the gnucash mission plan)
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08:52:33 <warlord> lupine: gnucash wouldn't be happy with a rails app editing the data at ANY time.
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09:06:43 <indigo> implementing stored procedures to allow arbitrary database clients to edit the data would be pretty hot.
09:07:19 <warlord> okay, figure out how to do that in a DB-agnostic way through libDBI
09:07:29 <indigo> db-agnostic applications suck
09:07:34 <indigo> that's all i have to say on that.
09:08:37 <indigo> really, any noninteractive way to modify my accounting data would be damn useful
09:08:43 <indigo> c library, command-line tool, etc
09:08:49 <warlord> There is a C-library.
09:09:01 <warlord> It's called the GnuCash Engine
09:09:10 <indigo> really
09:09:26 <indigo> is the api documented?
09:10:33 <warlord> http://code.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD
09:11:38 <indigo> awesome
09:12:37 <indigo> i feel like gnucash does about 5 times what the documentation says it can do
09:13:26 <warlord> It does. the documentation is always behind the app.
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09:35:03 <gjanssens> Hi all
09:35:26 <gjanssens> I am trying to understand the xml parser in GnuCash
09:35:46 <gjanssens> There's a whole set of files related to sixtp. What does sixtp mean ?
09:38:29 <gjanssens> But let me tell you what I'm up to, the meaning of sixtp may be irrelevant.
09:39:05 <gjanssens> I'd like to write a simple xml file (not in full gnucash xml file format, that's way to complex)
09:39:31 <gjanssens> to hold fixed prices for obsolete currencies (like the old Euro region currencies)
09:40:02 <gjanssens> This file should be read by GnuCash as an additional price source.
09:40:19 <gjanssens> So somewhere in GnuCash I'll have to add a parser for this file.
09:41:07 <gjanssens> I thought to have a look at the xml backend to see how it loads an xml file, but it's such a
09:41:36 <gjanssens> complex beast I can't easily discover what matters for my simple use case and what not.
09:42:13 <jsled> IIRC, "sixtp" is the gnucash-format parser layer above libxml's sax-style parser
09:42:42 <jsled> if there's a non-sax/dom way to parse xml easily available from glib or something, I'd recommend that instead
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09:43:06 <daedeloth> is there any way to see my last transactions?
09:43:08 <gjanssens> Thanks, I'll chase that path.
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09:43:20 <jsled> it looks like GMarkupParser is just a sax-style parsre
09:43:39 <daedeloth> last transactions as in, the one added last
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09:45:16 <jsled> http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Simple-XML-Subset-Parser.html#GMarkupParser
09:45:29 <jsled> daedeloth: presumably you mean across all accounts?
09:45:39 <daedeloth> no, only one account, but I found "sort on bookdate"
09:45:45 <daedeloth> so that's alright
09:46:00 <gjanssens> Just found it, thanks. That shoud be exactly what I need.
09:46:22 <daedeloth> turns out I accidentilly imported a qif the wrong way so I tried to remove the transactions again, but I accidentilly removed a transaction of 4 months ago
09:46:27 <daedeloth> any way to recover that?
09:47:22 <jsled> daedeloth: not really. revert to your previous save
09:52:18 <warlord> daedeloth: close without saving?
09:52:58 <daedeloth> hm, already too late
09:54:31 <warlord> copy a backup .xac file?
09:54:41 <warlord> (from before the save)
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09:59:05 <SlidingHorn> morning -- I have a dumb question -- I'm setting up a new install of gnucash and when I enter my opening balance in my checking acct, it creates an "Imbalance - USD" account with the same amount (only negative). What is this?
10:00:13 <jsled> every transaction must be balanced. since you entered one that is not, the Imbalance account is used to enforce balance.
10:00:33 <jsled> you're entering the opening balance transaction wrong; it should be between your checking account and Equity:Opening Balanced
10:00:35 <jsled> Balances, even.
10:01:09 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/txns-registers1.html
10:01:29 <SlidingHorn> do you by any chance have a link that could show me (in stupid person terms) how to do this? lol
10:01:34 <warlord> SlidingHorn: to put it simply, you need to always put something into the "Transfer" column
10:01:52 <warlord> For opening balance, that would be Equity:Opening Balances
10:02:00 <daedeloth> great, that worked, thanks man :) seems like I haven't specified my date format in my qif and I selected the wrong format
10:02:00 <warlord> For groceries, it would be Expenses:Groceries
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10:04:16 <SlidingHorn> warlord: so I enter my opening balance in "Equity: Opening Balances" and transfer that amount to my Checking Account under Assets?
10:04:51 <jsled> you can enter it from either register.
10:04:53 <warlord> Well, you should probably still enter it from the Checking account register, but effectively you're saying "transfer $1000 from Equity:Opening Balance into Assets:Checking"
10:06:36 <SlidingHorn> ok...did that. The equity account amount doubled though. That's kinda confusing to a lay person like me :-P
10:07:18 <warlord> What do you mean?
10:07:37 <warlord> It would only do that if you put the same account into the transfer account.
10:07:59 <warlord> I.e., there is the "this" account (the open register) and the "that" account (the transfer column). They should not be the same
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10:08:27 <jsled> SlidingHorn: you might want ot create an entirely new file, and use the New Account Hierarchy wizard … it'll ask for the account's opening balance, create the correct transaction for it, and you can see how it is supposed to look.
10:08:40 <jsled> for course, the url from earlier shows how it's supposed to look, as well.
10:11:46 <SlidingHorn> ok, I think I've got it. Thanks for the help folks :)
10:18:20 <SlidingHorn> another dumb one...is there a "rent/mortgage" account in expenses that I'm just not seeing, or should I just create a new one?
10:19:17 <jsled> not in the Common account hierarchy
10:19:33 <SlidingHorn> ok...I'll create one :)
10:19:35 <jsled> there are separate Renter and Homeowner account hierarchies
10:19:44 <jsled> that you can mix in.
10:19:54 <jsled> or, yeah, just create one.
10:20:04 <jsled> there's nothing too special about the default hierarchies
10:22:57 <SlidingHorn> You guys were super helpful. Thanks a bunch for having patience with a monetary idiot! :-P Have a good rest of the day
10:28:42 <warlord> Good luck, SlidingHorn
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12:08:20 <lupine_85> warlord, does gnucash keep offline information about the data, then, or...?
12:08:32 <warlord> what do you mean?
12:08:42 <lupine_85> [13:52] <warlord> lupine: gnucash wouldn't be happy with a rails app editing the data at ANY time.
12:09:46 <lupine_85> if gnucash-the-desktop-client isn't connected, and rails-app-that-understands-the-models adds a valid transaction, the only way that could break anything would be if gnucash-as-offline-database-client is storing something not in the database
12:10:30 <warlord> Well, not exactly; gnucash isn't a database application. It uses the database as a data store, but the LOGIC of what the data is, what it means, how to keep referential integrity, and the invariants are all in the application, not the database.
12:10:44 <lupine_85> warlord, yes, rails apps are exactly the same
12:10:51 <lupine_85> the rails application would have to duplicate the models
12:10:55 <warlord> It's the "adds a valid transaction" that would be the challenging part.
12:11:01 <lupine_85> absolutely
12:11:05 <warlord> .. and one we wont support.
12:11:15 <lupine_85> well, indeed :)
12:11:52 <warlord> So thats why we just say "dont do it", because once someone DOES do it and notices months later that there is a problem in their data, they come to us asking them to help fix it.
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12:12:31 <lupine_85> I'd hardly blame you if a bug in my code screwed up the database in subtle manner
12:13:03 <lupine_85> or, indeed, if gnucash made changes to the models-in-the-desktop-application and then my code didn't track those and buggered up the database similarly
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12:16:03 <warlord> Good to know you wouldn't, but someone who used your software alongside might blame me.
12:16:06 <warlord> (us)
12:16:50 <lupine_85> probably. you always get a few complete idiots, after all
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12:24:29 <warlord> Yep
12:43:16 <kimmo> most users are
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12:59:59 * lupine tends to be more respectful of users, but this is mostly for his own self-interest anyway
13:12:31 <warlord> heh
13:12:46 <warlord> I try to be respectful... (it's very hard most of the time)
13:14:23 <lupine> oh, hey. schema versioning per-table, rather than for the whole schema
13:21:20 <warlord> :)
13:21:58 <lupine> (obviously, model logic can change without the schema version changing, but still, handy to have)
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14:53:47 <mib_9wt00f> Hi,been playing around with the mySQL back end and importing data for analysis into OOO, Got transactions and accounts sorted (or near anyway) but cannot see where scheduled transactions are stored -- anyone able to enlighten me?
14:54:40 <lupine> table schedxactions?
14:55:11 <lupine> looks convincing
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15:20:29 <mib_9wt00f> empty
15:22:49 <mib_9wt00f> that was exactly that I thought when I first saw the table names
15:26:36 <warlord> Do you have any SXes?
15:28:51 <mib_9wt00f> SXes = Schedualed transactions? if so yes lots
15:31:06 <warlord> Well, scan the database for something from an SX? (I honestly dont know where they might be stored)
15:32:22 <mib_9wt00f> thanks -- just gone into gnucash and there are now no shedualed transactions in the mysql version -- strange they were there when I converted-- going to have to take another look
15:33:37 <mib_9wt00f> and what ever has caused those to go has removed the historic entries from the main ledgers
15:33:50 <warlord> What version are you using?
15:34:10 <warlord> (note that 2.3.x are all test versions)
15:37:38 <mib_9wt00f> 2.3.15 and yes test so no data changes in the sql version untill I am happy with it :-)
15:38:09 <mib_9wt00f> do too much testing at work to fall for that one
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15:42:28 <mib_9wt00f> mmmmm - replicates every time - take xml file - save as mysql - check scheduled transactions, close gnucash, reopen and recheck transactions and they and the history of them are gone
15:43:42 <warlord> Sweet! File a bug report?
15:43:57 <mib_9wt00f> first find out how :-)
15:44:34 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla
15:46:03 <mib_9wt00f> thanks - trying to see if already reported
16:09:49 <lapdog> Could it be related to this bug? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611120
16:14:59 <warlord> Possibly
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16:21:45 <gjanssens> I doubt it.
16:22:31 <gjanssens> Bug 611120 is likely cause by the SX rewrite between 2.0.x and 2.2.x (or was it between 1.8.x and 2.0.x ?)
16:23:14 <gjanssens> What mib_9wt00f describes is due something particular to the new database backend since 2.3.x.
16:24:07 <gjanssens> mib_9wt00f: if you write a bug report, be sure to attach the gnucash trace file that is generated when saving to mysql
16:24:18 <gjanssens> It may contain useful hints as to what goes wrong
16:24:45 <mib_9wt00f> reported with trace
16:24:58 <mib_9wt00f> thanks for input
16:29:58 <warlord> mib_9wt00f: Also, supplying the original xml datafile for testing might be useful,too.
16:30:55 <gjanssens> mib_9wt00f: could you rerun your test and attach the trace file that is generated after your step e) ?
16:31:17 <gjanssens> That file will hold the trace regarding the save to mysql process.
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16:57:28 <lupine> my scheduled transactions are in that table
16:57:54 <lupine> (I'm using pgsql, though)
16:59:14 <kimmo> 1.4 for life
16:59:38 <jsled> heh
17:00:21 <kimmo> at least THAT had proper line graphs!
17:00:31 <kimmo> like, account balance over time!
17:00:38 <kimmo> or net worth over time!
17:00:41 <kimmo> how about those ;)
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17:01:57 <jsled> patches welcome. :)
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17:06:21 <kimmo> diff -R gnucash-2.3.9 gnucash-1.4.12 > line_graphs.patch
17:06:24 <kimmo> anything else?
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17:21:22 <warlord> 1.4? Wow, that's old. That's close to when I started using it!
17:33:58 <gjanssens> kimmo: perhaps you can then still open the files I just yesterday removed from the documentation directory:
17:33:59 <gjanssens> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/changeset/19655
17:34:34 <gjanssens> (that's the changeset I removed the files in. You'll have to look in r19654 to still see the files)
17:35:45 <warlord> 1.4 might have the xml-v1 in it. Or 1.6
17:36:06 <kimmo> 1.4 is when I started using it
17:36:13 <kimmo> somewhere around 1.4.6 I think
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17:40:30 <ikhider> Hello?
17:41:05 <ikhider> Okay, I am trying to post an invoice to a client. The default currency is Canadian--but I want the invoice to be in USD. HOW DO I DO THIS?!?
17:41:59 <ikhider> How do I change the currency of the invoice to USD? I spent the last hour researching, going through manuals and messing with GNUcash
17:42:15 <ikhider> This should be simple, but it is one of the most difficult things I have had to do
17:43:41 <ikhider> I changed all settings to USD, defaulted to USD--relocated my business on the software to US--and it still posts the invoice in Canadian currency
17:45:45 <warlord> ikhider: What's the Customer's currency?
17:45:58 <warlord> (in GnuCash)
17:46:34 <ikhider> warlord, USD
17:46:49 <warlord> Are you sure?
17:47:00 <ikhider> Yes, absolutely--I triple checked
17:47:17 <warlord> What was it when you created the invoice?
17:47:36 <warlord> (not printed, created.. as in Business -> Customer -> New Invoice)
17:47:46 <ikhider> I exited and created a new invoice and it *still* defaulted to CAD
17:48:24 <warlord> If it's creating new invoices in CAD then your Customer's currency is NOT set to USD
17:49:44 <warlord> Bring up the customer editor for that customer, click on the Billing Information tab, and make sure.
17:50:26 <warlord> Then go the invoice, view it, click the Edit button in the toolbar, then go through the process to re-select this customer through the selection process.. That should reset the invoice to the (new) Customer Currency.
17:50:41 <warlord> The invoice caches the currency at customer selection time
17:51:15 <warlord> (so even if the customer or system currency changes, the invoice will retain that original currency)
17:55:33 <ikhider> warlord, Okay got it thanks--just fired off the invoice to my client.
17:55:55 <warlord> What was the issue?
17:55:57 <ikhider> Now I can get paid. I wish the currency thing was easier to change
17:56:13 <ikhider> I had to exit out and start the invoice from scratch
17:56:39 <ikhider> No matter how much I erased everything, exited and everything--it still cached to Canadian
17:56:52 <ikhider> Unless I generated a new invoice number
17:56:59 <ikhider> THEN it gave me USD
17:57:19 <ikhider> I will have fun explaining all these messed invoices to auditors
17:58:01 <warlord> Ummm... You must not have gone through and re-selected the customer.
17:58:02 <ikhider> "uhh sorry guys, it's GNU-Linux-Opensource and I am a newb, please don't penalize me"
17:58:49 <ikhider> warlord, Yeah--I generated a new invoice number, selected the client once again--and then USD
17:59:14 <ikhider> warlord, I cannot go back to invoice number 27 and make USD--it is CAD in stone
17:59:19 <warlord> um, there's no need to generate a new invoice number.. Just take your existing invoice and re-select the customer.
17:59:27 <warlord> No, it's not.
17:59:42 <warlord> (well, unless you posted it... then it might be)
18:00:03 <warlord> .. although once you unpost you should be able to change it the same way -- reselecting the customer.
18:00:19 <ikhider> Can I do it for my next client? Go back and use the number and post it as a different invoice?
18:02:06 <warlord> What do you mean, "use the number"?
18:02:11 <ikhider> yeah
18:02:19 <ikhider> Because it is already fugged up
18:02:30 <warlord> I dont understand what you mean by "use the number"
18:03:20 <ikhider> Invoice #27 was in CAD, so I just made invoice number 28 in USD and fired it off to client. Number 27 I have stuck with the CAD currency
18:03:24 <ikhider> Am I making sense?
18:03:30 <ikhider> Number 27 is now unused
18:04:48 <warlord> Take existing Invoice #27, View it, click on the Edit button, then under Customer click "Select", then go through the selection process to select the same (or new) customer.
18:05:48 <ikhider> warlord, Okay, thanks a bunch.
18:05:55 <ikhider> Much appreciated!
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23:45:09 <lupin_sansei> Hello, just getting my head around GC, should a credit card be a liability? If my credit card is -$4000 on my bank statement should GC show that as a liability of +$4000?
23:53:57 <lapdog> lupin_sansei: That's how I have it set up. Credit cards are liabilities and amounts I owe show as positive numbers.
23:54:36 <lupin_sansei> lapdog: thanks
23:54:52 <lapdog> You can change the sign on those amounts though by checking a box in the preference dialog.
23:54:57 <lupin_sansei> okay
23:55:20 <lupin_sansei> cool
23:56:28 <lapdog> Edit --> Preferences --> Accounts --> Reverse Balanced Accounts...check "none"
23:57:16 <lupin_sansei> thanks