2010-10-05 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:01:52 <Perth> 1st off: GnuCash v2.2.9 "This copy was built from r17949M on 2009-02-23." running on x86 Win7
01:02:36 <Perth> the data in the help file is apparently out of date; IRC channel is said to be on irc.gnome.org :)
01:02:48 <Perth> however, what i came here to get help w/ is..
01:03:03 <Perth> I'm going through the tutorial that is included in the installation..
01:03:33 <Perth> and it is trying to show me how to create a split transaction
01:04:11 <Perth> the instructions are (basically): From w/in Assets:Checking click on a new transaction, click on spilt
01:04:37 <Perth> split is grayed out in every instance of it I can find
01:04:46 <Perth> from w/in Assets:Checking
01:05:38 <Perth> can the logic of the program, regarding when a split transaction is allowed, be explained to me?/Why is this?
01:08:39 <Perth> Document hierarchy is: GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide>Transactions>The Account Register>Split Transaction
01:09:18 * Perth goes AFK (@ Work) while waiting for some help...
01:26:20 <Perth> mrr... wish more of you people were awake; let's try some highlighting: jsled Cork[home] Simon mwhipple mishehu
02:01:57 <Perth> on the "doesn't answer my question, explain why I'm told to do it the way I am, and may not actually give me the same result under all circumstances as doing it the way I'm told to do it" front: There is apparently no need to click on that split button as you can just enter all the splits manually, just like you would have had to do anyway.... WTF?
02:12:43 <Perth> AH HAH
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02:13:09 <Perth> some 3 hours later I have discovered where the problem is...
02:16:17 <Perth> Attention, this needs fixed: The tutorial assumes the following settings, but fails to instruct the end user to change the default settings to be as: Settings assumed: MenuBar>View>Double Line (Disabled); Edit>Preferences>Register Defaults>Basic Ledger
02:16:47 <Perth> the split button is disabled in modes other than Basic Ledger
02:17:26 <Perth> Perhaps some one here can inform the appropriate party(ies) of this discontinuity
02:17:51 <Perth> thanks for the no-help :) (yes you're asleep, it's cool)
02:18:21 <kimmo> You can always browse the existing bug reports and file your own at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla ...
02:19:06 <kimmo> (And the build message is not really a gnucash proble, more a problem of your binary distributor's)
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09:52:18 <mupi> Running gnuCash for windows, started working on a budget, and now the accounts coumn is super wide (like 30x the width of the screen), and there's no resize cursor when I try to hover over the split between the columns. Any ideas?
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09:53:18 <Mulvane> Looking for something that allows remote updates when I travel..Does gnucash support any type of client/server or http updates?
09:54:06 <jsled> no
09:54:41 <Mulvane> Any plans?
09:55:56 <Mulvane> Its become an increasing problem of losing track of small transactions when I travel.
09:58:37 <jsled> there's a desire, but the way we use the db backend makes at least that part of it (multiple apps sharing a db) hard.
09:59:08 <jsled> adding a different sort of front-end over the engine (and thus over the DB) would be reasonable, but I don't know if anyone's working toward that.
09:59:30 <jsled> frankly, I think the latter is the right way to go, anyways.
09:59:55 <jsled> but, my knowledge of the current plans (in as much as there are any) is sketchy; you might want to look through the last few months of gnucash-devel traffic and see what's come up.
10:00:00 <Mulvane> Understood. Seems tying an http frontend into the main app would work as well though.
10:00:26 <jsled> ( https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel )
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10:00:49 <Mulvane> Alright.. Thanks for the help.
10:00:52 <jsled> I dunno if you'd want to do it to the GUI app per se, but the app is pretty modular already.
10:01:10 <jsled> so, yeah, an HTTP server on top of the engine, &c. would be good.
10:01:24 <jsled> the problem there is that there's unfortunately too much app logic in the GTK front-end.
10:01:40 <jsled> but there's still a good bit of ui-agnostic core engine code.
10:01:51 <jsled> and refactoring's always a good thing with more than one consumer.
10:02:25 <jsled> I should say: abstraction is always more tractable with more than one consumer.
10:02:58 <Mulvane> Right now my solution seems to be x-forwarding, rdp or vnc
10:03:33 <jsled> others submit their datafile to a (d)vcs, or carry it around on a thumb drive.
10:03:57 <warlord> Mulvane: another option is a portable app that lets you export QIF and then you regularly import your "mobile" transactions.
10:04:13 <jsled> the version control story isn't great, cause the order of the data in the xml file isn't guaranteed, so there might be excessive diff trauma.
10:04:15 <warlord> me, I just run GnuCash on my laptop so at the end of the day I input my tranactions.
10:04:20 <jsled> and I wouldn't even want to think about merge trauma.
10:05:13 <Mulvane> So the file doesn't need to be imported between multiple installs if more than one app can write to it?
10:05:24 <Mulvane> As in the case of mounting the data file over an ssh mount?
10:06:07 <warlord> Mulvane: define "imported". File -> Open from multiple apps is fine, but you can only be running the app in one place at a time.
10:06:30 <Mulvane> warlord Yeah, I can't think of a scenario where I would have it open more than once.
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10:09:02 <warlord> Well, I leave gnucash running almost all the time. But like I said I use it on my laptop; I dont run it from multiple systems.
10:09:26 <Mulvane> warlord Yeah..What I really want is a client/server approach.
10:09:47 <Mulvane> Or an http frontend of some type.
10:11:50 <warlord> Uggh! The vast VAST majority of our users would have NO IDEA how to secure such a beast.
10:12:16 <warlord> Would you want your financial data spewed out onto the Internet?
10:12:31 <Mulvane> People run this stuff on windows.... So um.....
10:12:54 <warlord> Well, Windows is a third-class citizen here.
10:13:07 <warlord> Linux was (and still is) primarily developed on Linux
10:13:13 <warlord> Er, GNUCASH was ....
10:13:29 <Mulvane> To bad.. Not a linux fan either..But that's not a discussion for here.
10:14:09 <warlord> OSX?
10:14:23 <Mulvane> Used it twice...That was 2 times to many :-P
10:14:41 <warlord> Well, if you don't like Linux, OSX, or Windows, what do you use? An abacus?
10:14:47 <Mulvane> felt kludgy and all that it does to stay out of the way actually seemed to get in my way
10:14:51 <Mulvane> FreeBSD
10:15:26 <warlord> Oh, one of those side-lines OSes.
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10:15:58 <Mulvane> There is a quote from Linus that if he had had the chance to use a BSD386 system, linux would have never existed.
10:16:38 <Mulvane> And I wouldn't call it sideline with some major big players support it...But like I said, this isn't an OS channel and I don't want to come off as an evangelist.
10:17:08 <warlord> no worries. We can at least agree that Windows *is* a third-class citizen, right? ;)
10:17:17 <Mulvane> Oh yes...
10:17:24 <jsled> warlord: I'm not sure why gnucash couldn't just spawn a small http server on some port. it's not like it's any more effort to "secure" than firewalling off a database.
10:17:25 <Mulvane> I use windows were windows works best and thats it.
10:17:53 <jsled> s/I'm not sure why/I'm not sure why you don't see that/ ;)
10:18:21 <warlord> jsled: I suppose it could..
10:18:34 <warlord> Mulvane: as a doorstop?
10:18:43 <jsled> or use something like wsgi/rack to be able to plug into a proper web server, if someone wanted to configure it that way (and accept the security, &c. burden)
10:18:54 <Mulvane> htpc frontend mostly..And gaming.
10:19:15 <warlord> Mulvane: okay, I'll grant you gaming. For HTPC frontend MythTV works just fine on a Linux box.
10:19:56 <Mulvane> warlord My htpc is a lot more than most. I do gaming, emu, netflix and general web browsing on mine.
10:20:17 <warlord> jsled: Sure, something like that is possible. With a running GnuCash application spawning a web service that would be fine, and would solve the concurrency issues. But it would be a major development effort, I think.
10:20:25 <jsled> yup.
10:20:59 <jsled> I think it'd be faster to start over with a proper web framework in a high-level language.
10:21:01 <Mulvane> spawn a guiless gnucash background service.
10:21:37 <warlord> jsled: probably. But if we did that might as well completely rewrite the app.
10:21:43 <warlord> .. and make it a true DB app.
10:21:45 <jsled> that's what I'm saying. :)
10:21:53 <jsled> use something like django
10:25:18 <warlord> sure
10:29:06 <mupi> if my laptop ran linux without making me have to jump through stupidity like recompiling the network driver every time the kernel changes, I'd probably be running linux...well, that and touch screen support/tablet mode
10:30:07 <mupi> but as it is, windows is the only OS that just works with the hardware I have. none of which addresses the question I had but I guess nobody knows an answer for
10:30:27 <Mulvane> I run FreeBSD on my laptop.
10:31:53 <warlord> I run linux of all my hardware (except for my EFB)
10:32:18 <warlord> mupi: nobody here uses the budget features.
10:32:27 <warlord> So I'm afraid we really dont have an answer for you
10:32:41 <warlord> You could TRY to edit the gconf database?
10:32:53 <warlord> (shutdown gnucash, shutdown gconfd)
10:36:41 <mupi> I figured it was a grasping at straws situation, but i figured it was worth it, if someone knew :) It almost HAS to be something really simple
10:41:43 <warlord> Probably. Did you try to resize columns before it got to be so big?
10:47:44 <mupi> yes, and it worked then, just like it works on the main accounts page...what happened was I tried to change from 12 1-month periods to only have 1 period, suddenly, the first column was hugely wide, and I can't resize it
10:48:07 <warlord> Hmm...
10:49:19 <mupi> i have tired uninstalling and reinstalling, still comes up that way. Now, if I open a new file, the new file comes up that way, too
10:50:01 <warlord> Right, because those settings are stored in the gconf database which doesn't get removed as part of un-installation.
10:51:04 <warlord> .. just like your datafile does not get removed.
10:51:07 <mupi> OK. so where would i find the gconf database under windows?
10:53:48 <warlord> ~/.gconf*
10:58:55 <mupi> aha
10:58:57 <mupi> <entry name="name_width" mtime="1286234928" type="int" value="81253">
10:59:05 <mupi> that might explain it
10:59:24 <warlord> It might, yes.
11:00:34 <mupi> that was it
11:01:00 <mupi> changed it to something sane (500), and now it allows resizing
11:01:21 <warlord> :)
11:02:02 <mupi> i knew it had to be simple if i just knew where to look
11:03:51 <warlord> :)
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11:15:51 <mupi> so in the FWIW column, it appears the difficulty is when you try to open more than one budget and have different periods for each. The UI module tries to space it so the last budget column is on the right edge; but if there's two budget windows with different numbers of columns it can't figure it out
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11:42:56 <Sir_Konrad> hey warlord
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12:03:22 <warlord> hi Sir_Konrad
12:13:43 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: is it possible to edit/revise the documentation?
12:17:02 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: or should I file a bug for typos and grammatical errors?
12:17:33 <warlord> Anything is possible ;)
12:17:46 <warlord> People are actively working on the docs right now for the 2.4 release.
12:18:01 <warlord> If you want to help out pipe up on gnucash-devel
12:18:23 <warlord> BZ with docs patches are also welcome; just make sure they are against the head of the gnucash-docs svn module.
12:19:10 <Sir_Konrad> Ok, so can I give you an example that I just found?
12:21:17 <warlord> Um, sure.. Although I'm not in a position to do anything about it.
12:23:30 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how I should go about it. In "http://gnucash.org/docs/v2.2/C/gnucash-guide/dep_concepts1.html" there is a trivial typo where "piece" is spelled "peice". Now should I go to BugZilla and select the Documentation component, version SVN, adjust the severity and explain the problem?
12:24:09 <warlord> Well, you should verify that it hasn't already been fixed.
12:25:58 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: did a search for "peice" on BugZilla and found two for "epiphany-ext" and "gtetrinet". :P
12:26:49 <warlord> That's not what I meant. I meant, check Subversion to see if it's been fixed there. There hasn't been a new "release" so www.gnucash.org wouldn't be updated, but the docs source in svn might.
12:27:46 <Sir_Konrad> oh..
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12:31:33 <mwagner> Hello. I would like to help translating the gnucash-guide. What is the easiest way to do this?
12:32:05 <mwagner> I wanted to translate it from English to German
12:32:08 <warlord> mwagner: announce your intention on the gnucash-devel mailing list
12:32:18 <Sir_Konrad> mwagner: you know German?
12:32:31 <mwagner> I do yes. I am from Germany
12:32:31 <Sir_Konrad> Awesome. :)
12:33:37 <Sir_Konrad> Well, see you guys in a little while. I'm going to calculate the U.S. Debt in GNUCash. :P
12:35:31 <mwagner> Do I have to subscribe for the mailing-list or do I just send off a mail to gnucash-devel@lists.gnucash.org?
12:36:04 <warlord> Well, if you want the mail to go through to the list within a couple days you should subscribe.
12:38:38 <mwagner> Just signed up
12:41:01 <mwagner> also signed up for the German users ML
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12:47:35 <warlord> okay
12:47:53 <Sir_Konrad> oh golly warlord, prepare for a stack overflow bug in GNUCash. XD
12:48:23 <warlord> Heh
12:48:36 <warlord> Sir_Konrad: are you running 2.3.15?
12:48:48 <Sir_Konrad> you know, 14.2 Trillion is a lot of money...
12:49:01 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: no, 2.2.9
12:50:09 <warlord> We dont care about 2.2.9; there will never be another 2.2.x release. If you can reproduce the problem in 2.3.x then we'll worry about it.
12:50:29 <warlord> GnuCash /SHOULD/ be able to handle 14.2 trillion.
12:51:47 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: so... at this point should I just get a copy of 2.3.x and forget about 2.2?
12:52:00 <Sir_Konrad> Because what's the use of submitting bugs for 2.2? :D
12:52:24 <warlord> Well, it depends whether you're trying to actively test the pre-2.4 release or if you want to get real work done.
12:54:56 <Sir_Konrad> True. What language is GNUCash programmed in warlord? Is it possible to submit patches programmed in Ruby?
12:55:14 <warlord> LOL. No.
12:55:18 <warlord> Gnucash is mostly in C
12:55:23 <Sir_Konrad> hehe didn't think so. :P
12:55:43 <Sir_Konrad> ok.
12:55:46 <warlord> There is some Scheme (Guile) for some small portions.
12:55:52 <warlord> (like reports)
12:56:54 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: who is the project leader of GNUCash? :)
12:57:16 <warlord> Define "project leader"
12:57:36 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: hmm... person is in control of final decisions?
12:57:48 <Sir_Konrad> initiator of the project?
12:59:15 <warlord> What final decisions?
12:59:25 <Sir_Konrad> LOL! :D
12:59:40 <warlord> The INITIATOR? That would be Linas, but he's barely involved anymore.
13:00:15 <Sir_Konrad> Basically warlord, I was wondering if someone could represent the GNUCash project on FLOSS Weekly. Do you think you or one of the other ops in here could?
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13:02:48 <warlord> Why not ask on gnucash-devel for a volunteer?
13:03:40 <Sir_Konrad> warlord: I bet I could! I just subscribe and send the email to the mailing list?
13:05:39 <warlord> yes
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13:07:29 <Sir_Konrad> ok, I'll be working on that.
13:07:56 <twanny> I want to open a VISA account, what type should I make it, and what opening balance should I enter?
13:08:23 <warlord> twanny: Credit Card.
13:08:31 <warlord> As for opening balance, is there a balance on the card?
13:08:51 <twanny> warlord: there's a max limit
13:09:00 <warlord> gnucash doesn't care about that.
13:09:33 <twanny> warlord: no there's no actual balance, I start to minus from the limit and then it stops lending
13:10:29 <warlord> there is no place to store a 'max amount for this account'
13:11:27 <jsled> twanny: think about your credit card in reverse; if you owe them money, you carry a balance
13:11:34 <jsled> (which gnucash will sign-invert to be a positive number)
13:11:57 <twanny> doing some reading ;) http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/cc-concepts1.html
13:15:01 <Mer|in> there really shouldn't be a 'max amount' imo
13:16:45 <Mer|in> although a place to store some sort of credit limit for liability account types (for display purposes only) would be nice
13:16:48 <kimmo> I use the description field for the credit limit
13:17:12 <kimmo> which I have configured to be visible on the account list, of course
13:17:19 <Mer|in> yeah i use the description field for credit limit, interest rate, etc
13:18:09 <kimmo> I have no idea what kind of interest rates my cards have...
13:18:44 <Mer|in> 29.99%
13:19:43 <warlord> I have no idea what interest rate my cards have,because I pay it off every month.
13:19:57 <kimmo> same for me
13:21:06 <kimmo> interestingly enough, even though in Finland a bank is supposed to have a certain amount of equity for even the unused credit (card) limits they extend, my banks keep on offering me more and more credit limit
13:21:30 <kimmo> and there's no such thing as FICO scores here per se, that would be somehow diminished by just having a lot of credit available
13:22:27 * Mer|in packs up to bunk in with kimmo
13:22:42 <warlord> Actually, your credit score goes UP if you have a lot of unused credit.
13:22:55 <kimmo> really?
13:23:10 <kimmo> I never really looked into the formula, as I don't really need a fico score
13:23:11 <Mer|in> yeah - it ranges from 350 to 850 i think
13:23:29 <Mer|in> there's no published formula
13:23:46 <Mer|in> anything above 725 is typically conidered incredible
13:23:54 <Mer|in> 850 is basically unattainable
13:24:07 <kimmo> no, but the basics are pretty much the same in all three (?) institutions that calculate the ficos
13:24:41 <kimmo> my bank tells me I'm a tier 2 borrower, which is good enough for me
13:24:43 <Mer|in> the credit reporting agencies don't supply scores, just the data used to determine scores
13:24:51 <kimmo> oh
13:25:14 <Mer|in> but if you pay them $10 they'll make one up for you
13:25:29 <Mer|in> and it's guaranteed to be a different # from what the bank will get
13:25:59 <kimmo> heh
13:26:30 <kimmo> this is relatively ridiculous
13:27:17 <kimmo> If I did the math correctly, I have a total credit limit of 47,500 euros on my 6 cards, plus an amex that doesn't really have a fixed limit
13:27:58 <kimmo> if I wasn't conscious about my spending, I might be in deep shit pre-t-ty soon
13:28:45 <Mer|in> banks here have all kinds of ways of robbing their customers
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13:30:09 <Mer|in> they actaully raise your interest rate to the max if another bank claims that you missed a payment.
13:30:13 <kimmo> you'd think that they'd have figured out by now that independent of the credit limit extended, my spendings stay about the same, so there's really no point in tying up equity beefing up my credit limits
13:30:27 <kimmo> that's illegal in finland
13:30:42 <kimmo> besides, all my 6 cards are from the same bank, too
13:31:01 <kimmo> no actually one is from another one
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13:36:43 <BenB> HBCI via aqbanking: are there plans to support the new EU wire transfer types? currently I can only make transfers within Germany, and many transactions I do are in other EU countries.
13:37:43 <BenB> (whereby "new" = the EU transaction (5+ years) or SEPA)
13:41:26 <warlord> BenB: you'll have to ask the AqB people
13:41:43 <BenB> warlord: the UI is also done by them?
13:42:02 <warlord> Depends on which UI you are talking about.
13:42:12 <BenB> i.e. if they support it, gnucash automatically supports it, too?
13:42:14 <warlord> Generally, yes.
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13:42:29 <BenB> warlord: I have an menu entry "Actions|Single wire transfer...", that gives me a dialog.
13:42:33 <warlord> But until AqB supports it gnucash CANNOT support it.
13:42:39 <BenB> I think both the menu entry and the dialog are from gnucash
13:42:46 <BenB> warlord: yes, I understand.
13:42:48 <warlord> So it's pointless coming here until AqB supports it
13:42:58 <warlord> I honestly dont know who drives that UI.
13:43:35 <BenB> looks to me like it's gnucash. the aqbanking does the setup UI, but there's a clear visual break.
13:44:20 <warlord> Well, AqB < 5.0 used QT for the setup; AqB 5+ will use Gtk so it will look the same.
13:44:32 <warlord> ... but it will still be AqB's GUIs
13:45:10 <BenB> yes... wasn't so much the toolkit, but there's a button "start setup" (which starts aqbanking UI) in the gnucash setup wizard...
13:45:52 <BenB> I remember, because that royaly confused me, because I had to do something in the gnucash wizard after completing the aqbanking wizard, and I didn't notice, and I didn't know why nothing worked :)
13:47:43 <warlord> Yeah.. Hopefully that'll be a *bit* better after AqB 5
13:48:19 <BenB> nice!
13:52:43 <BenB> http://osdir.com/ml/finance.aqbanking.devel/2008-06/msg00064.html
13:52:57 <BenB> (in German) says that SEPA is in the works.
13:55:58 <warlord> Ok
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15:03:05 <BenB> warlord: nice, aqbanking5 supports paypal accounts
15:04:01 <warlord> okay.
15:05:50 <BenB> warlord: the author is german, and he writes the news in German, so I don't know whether you know but:
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15:06:39 <BenB> aqbanking5 also has a new dialog system which does not create separate QT3, 4 and other dialogs, but separates logic from dialog, and describes the latter as XML, and has different engines to create dialogs in qt etc.
15:07:13 <BenB> that should simplify the integration with gnucash. esp. if a gtk renderer already exists.
15:07:13 <warlord> Yes, I did know that.
15:12:46 <warlord> martin discussed that with us, and trunk already has the code to call out to the integrated druid.
15:26:53 <BenB> cool... meaning the next version of GnuCash will use aqbanking5?
15:28:42 <warlord> Well, 2.4.0 will be *able* to use AqB-5
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16:37:05 <Mer|in> i miss being able to use aqb :<
16:38:06 <warlord> why can't you?
16:38:33 <Mer|in> none of my banks support hbci/ofx anymore
16:38:44 <kimmo> time to switch, eh?
16:38:52 <Mer|in> well - one does but they want to charge me $15/mo for it
16:39:22 <Mer|in> thought about it
16:39:23 <warlord> are you in germany?
16:39:30 <Mer|in> usa
16:39:33 <warlord> (only german banks support hbci)
16:39:39 <warlord> as for ofx, *shrugs*
16:39:45 * warlord doesn't use any import features
16:41:41 <kimmo> I've been in the application integration business long enough to know that if a process takes 10 minutes per week, it can't be worth automating if there are any chances for error
16:41:41 <Mer|in> i've been thinking about switching to a local bank that uses netteller
16:42:12 <kimmo> osm
16:42:22 <kimmo> isn't neteller a bank on its own?
16:42:33 <Mer|in> seems they're popular with local banks
16:42:49 <Mer|in> i dunno if netteller is a bank too, but they resell their online banking system
16:43:04 <Mer|in> so does chase
16:43:19 <Mer|in> but chase is big $$
16:43:30 <kimmo> well at least they provided me with a bank account and an ATM card
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16:44:02 <warlord> it's not a question of automation, it's a question of verification.
16:44:12 <Mer|in> agreed
16:44:21 <warlord> If you just import all your transactions from the bank then you can never verify a bank error.
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16:44:37 <Mer|in> yeah that's why i won't use mint
16:44:41 <warlord> If you're going to take the time to cross reference against your own receipts you might as well enter the transactions FROM the receipts.
16:44:51 <Mer|in> i enter first, then import to verify
16:45:20 <Mer|in> just easier / more reliable than manually clearing transactions
16:45:35 <kimmo> I do that. Enter from receipts, visual verification from online banking
16:45:53 <kimmo> I'm a creature of habit
16:46:13 <Mer|in> that's what i'm doing now, but i prefer to have an import for the convenience
16:46:26 <Mer|in> it's just faster
16:46:49 <Mer|in> if i have to manually download a qif then the cost/benefit is diminished
16:47:36 <kimmo> I just log on, and have a "show 30 most recent transactions" button on the front page
16:48:01 <kimmo> then again, all transactions are cleared immediately so there's really no tracking going on
16:49:00 <Mer|in> yeah i have the online banking system show transactions for a single day at a time
16:49:41 <kimmo> "immediately", there's a few hour delay for the online banking system to show the charging entity in some POS thingies, instead it just shows the amount until they fill in the online banking frontend database up to speed
16:50:33 <kimmo> I might do it otherwise, but there's just so much data in the receipts that's not in the bank's files
16:50:35 <Mer|in> i also find that with aqb it catches little mistakes (off by a penny/dime) in entry once in a while
16:51:02 <Mer|in> yeah there's no point for just importing from the bank
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16:53:25 <warlord> Mer|in: Monthly reconciliation against your statement catches those, too.
16:53:56 <Mer|in> yeah monthly recon is a must
16:54:27 <Mer|in> yeah online import is a convenience, not a need
16:54:38 <Mer|in> it's just faster
16:54:58 <Mer|in> but you have a good point, it's easy to misuse
16:56:31 <kimmo> not having ever used them imports, thus not knowing if what I'd need already exists, what I'd want was something that simply downloaded the most recent transactions for X days, checked those against sums in a register, and notified me of any inconsistencies
16:56:35 <kimmo> but that's it
16:58:47 <Mer|in> yeah - i'd use it to verify transactions in the register, and then it would show me transactions from the bank that were matched/mismatched, and once i accepted the "batch" downloaded, it would mark the matching transactions as cleared
16:58:51 <Mer|in> iirc
16:59:13 <Mer|in> it's been a long time since i've been able to use it
16:59:56 <Mer|in> are there any other standards like that out there?
16:59:59 <kimmo> I wouldn't even want any automation, just cross checking that my input of 30 sums exactly matches the 30 sums downloaded
17:00:14 <Mer|in> how do you tell it which 30 sums?
17:00:40 <kimmo> a date range perhaps?
17:02:04 <Mer|in> i think the feature does it for transactions since last download
17:03:12 <kimmo> that works, too
17:03:25 <kimmo> all I want is to catch the .01 turned .10
17:17:45 <Mer|in> i like knowing about missing transactions, but i prefer to research them before i blindly put them in the register
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18:17:41 <BenB> did anybody ever catch a bank doing wrong accounting?
18:18:52 <BenB> for me, they sometimes cheat with their own fees, but they're always marked. I've never had a wrong account statement in the sense of missing incoming money.
18:19:38 <BenB> when importing, I classify the transactions, by booking theem against my internal accounts, e.g. phone company goes to expense account "Phone".
18:20:29 <BenB> while doing that, I catch when somebody draws money from my account although he has no right to. The last time that happened is ages maybe 5-10 years ago.
18:20:54 <BenB> that assignment is still a *lot* faster than typing all values and details manually
18:21:24 <BenB> I wouldn't want to use a bank where this is not possible, if I have any choice in the matter.
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18:58:07 <warlord> BenB: I have caught errors, yes.
18:58:14 <warlord> Like duplicate ATM withdrawals.
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19:06:40 <BenB> ah, yes, me too once (where I already suspected it). but I usually catch these when making the assignment to internal expense accounts.
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