2010-09-07 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:22:07 <Sheiksouth> Hi and Help. Gnucash just crashed (due to the GUI locking up) I have a backup of the files as they where just before the program crashed. If I reload qnucash will it recover all the entries my bookkepper has made or should I do something else first before restarting.
06:22:46 <Sheiksouth> Any help is most appreciated. Thanks in advance.
06:23:21 <Sheiksouth> BTW using Gnucash under Linux.
06:23:34 <Sheiksouth> Ubuntu 10.4
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07:24:21 <Jimraehl1> I tried to build Gnucash under Windows XP. Last attempt was October 2009. I copied the current Packaging/wim32 files, ran reset.sh, rebooted the computer, then ran into a library lookup failure in the Gnome platform section:
07:27:32 <Jimraehl1> http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gnucash/jpeg_7-1-fixed-win32.zip
07:28:15 <Jimraehl1> Resolving heanet.dl.sourfceforge.net ... host not found
07:28:28 <Jimraehl1> Any ideas?
07:29:11 <Jimraehl1> (Allowing for typing errors, win32, and sourceforge)
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08:06:50 <warlord> Sheiksouth: Hi. What kinds of entries did your bookkeeper make?
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08:07:55 <warlord> Jimraehl1: heatnet.dl is a specific download..
08:08:08 <kimmo> Sheiksouth, you can load the most recent auto-save (the .xac files) and you can also look into replaying the log file produced afterwards (the .log files)
08:10:09 <warlord> kimmo: that will only work correctly if the ONLY data entered are normal transactions. Any account changes or Biz function entry and log-replay will destroy your data integrity.
08:10:49 <kimmo> I stand corrected
08:11:09 <warlord> ... that's why I asked the question I did.
08:12:09 <kimmo> I feel I should really start using the biz functions, if for no other reason, for helping out in here
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08:15:08 <warlord> Heh
08:15:13 <warlord> Go for it. Make a test file.
08:15:16 <Sheiksouth> kimmo: Thanks we where lucky and nothing was lost. Eventually I could get control over the keyboard again (the mouse was bizzar) and managed to do a Ctrl-S to asve everytig before rebooting. The GUI is not stable on this particular pc.
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08:16:10 <Sheiksouth> I have been stugeling to set up GnuCash for tax in South Africa. Any pointer whare I can read up on that, please?
08:17:09 <Sheiksouth> We use GC up to now but now Ihave to register with SARS for VAT and process invoices through GC and VErndor Bils as well. But my Tax report is empty.
08:17:13 <warlord> Sheiksouth: Oh, if you saved before rebooting then you shouldn't have lost anything; so just restarting GnuCash should be sufficient. You will most likely have to tell it top "Open Anyways"
08:17:23 <kimmo> warlord, can one mod the number of "Recent ledgers" entries in the File menu easily in a config file, ENV, or commandline switch, or is that hard-coded somewhere?
08:17:37 <warlord> kimmo: I dont think so.
08:17:41 <Sheiksouth> Kimmo: yes indeed that is wat we did.
08:18:21 <warlord> Sheiksouth: have you read through the "Gnucash for business" docs? And have you looked at the FAQ entries?
08:19:19 <kimmo> maybe I should write a how-to on EU VAT somewhere
08:20:09 <Sheiksouth> Yes indeed. What I don't get is that the Accounts under Tax option are only income and expense accounts. But the vat accoutns are under accounts reveivable and accounts payable.
08:20:30 <Sheiksouth> Should that not be used for the tax report?
08:21:45 <kimmo> the VAT Payable/VAT Deductible is not tax-related. VAT is based on the Income and Expense
08:22:32 <kimmo> so the account affecting taxes is the income/expense ones, VAT Payable/Deductible is simply money loaned or borrowed...
08:25:00 <Sheiksouth> kimmo: I am definately getting things confued. OK I am taking not about income tax but about VAt. What I need for my reciever is a statment showing what I owe or what they owe to me concerning VAT.
08:25:15 <Sheiksouth> Sorry if this was asked wrongly. It is VAT nto INvome Tax.
08:25:34 <kimmo> you see that in the balance sheet
08:25:55 <kimmo> (Of course, I'm talking Finnish and EU VAT law and accounting here)
08:26:27 <kimmo> must... have.. coffee
08:26:28 <kimmo> brb
08:30:33 <Sheiksouth> kimmo: Enjoy the coffee. I am soon going to lunch well earned today. Well the balance sheet do you mean the trial balance?
08:31:28 <Sheiksouth> Would not quite do for SARS (south african revenu service). What I need mor is a two olume thing that says for these items I charged vat and on these items i paid vat and the difference is such and such.
08:47:35 <warlord> Sheiksouth: You don't need to use AR and AP for that; just normal asset and liability accounts.
08:48:12 <warlord> So in the Tax Tables you'd set up the Tax accounts for assets (tax owed to you) and liabilities (taxes you have to pay). Then you can compare the difference.
08:48:23 <warlord> Right now we don't have a "VAT Report"
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09:02:39 <Sheiksouth> Warlord: Just back from lunch. Without a VAT report how oes one relate figures to the Receiver of revenues? Is there any common practice or can one make such a report as a customs report?
09:02:54 <warlord> Sheiksouth: I dunno; no VAT here in the USA
09:03:12 <Sheiksouth> Do you have GST?
09:03:18 <Sheiksouth> Or how do they do it ther?
09:03:44 <warlord> Nope.
09:04:06 <warlord> Just sales tax. But it's only paid by the end consumer.
09:04:11 <Sheiksouth> Warlord: so you pay no tax on sales transactions
09:04:18 <Sheiksouth> Ah I thought so.
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09:04:31 <warlord> (but sales tax is a state thing, not a federal thing)
09:05:35 <Sheiksouth> warlord: ok but lets say you are a company and buy sttionary so you pay salestax cant you reclaim that salestax when you resell the item in a processed way and your customre in return pasy s sles tax?
09:06:00 <warlord> Nope
09:06:31 <Sheiksouth> so the govrnment (local or otherise) cashes in on the same item mor then once if it is sold mor then once.
09:06:35 <warlord> Technically you were supposed to file with your wholesalers who shouldn't be charging you tax; but if you paid it anyways, oh well.
09:06:58 <warlord> Nope, you're not supposed to have to pay tax in the firstplace. But if you do, it's your own fault.
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09:07:51 <Sheiksouth> But some even the bigest company will buy something that has sales tax on it. Well interesting ( a bit unfair I suppose but less complicated).
09:07:57 <warlord> When you buy the item from your wholesaler you have an agreement that the item is supposed to be for re-sale and that you'll collect the tax. If you buy from a retailer then yes, there's double-taxing.
09:08:40 <warlord> Lots of things here get taxed whenever they change hands. For example, cars. You pay sales tax on used cars as well as new cars.
09:08:50 <warlord> So why not on a pencil, too?
09:09:01 <Sheiksouth> Ok Well we got VAT (used to be GST) now I have to come up with a report. is there a way of doing such a report.
09:09:19 <Sheiksouth> in GC as a customs thing?
09:09:22 <warlord> Check the lists. There is a vat report in the works out there.
09:09:37 <warlord> (but probably not for 2.2.x)
09:09:47 <warlord> You could write one if you're good w/ scheme.
09:09:52 <Sheiksouth> You mean mailing lists?
09:10:07 <Sheiksouth> Guess I would need massive help.
09:10:17 <warlord> Or check the FAQ; there may be a pointer to a way to get the info you want that you can cut-and-paste into a more official-looking report.
09:10:27 <warlord> yes, "lists" == "mailing lists"
09:10:32 <warlord> Where in SA are you?
09:10:45 <warlord> (I suppose I should've asked, where in ZA are you)
09:11:35 <Sheiksouth> In Johannesburg next to the airport. Two thing I would look forward to in GC easily Customizable Invoices and reports.
09:11:48 <Sheiksouth> Right SA is Saudi Arabia.
09:11:55 <warlord> Heh.
09:11:56 <Sheiksouth> :-)
09:12:01 <warlord> My fiancee is from CapeTown
09:12:14 <Sheiksouth> Ah well we only export the best.
09:12:17 <warlord> 2.4 will have more easily customized invoices; using eguile
09:12:31 <warlord> Actually, we're planning to visit in Feb
09:12:45 <Sheiksouth> kyes I heared but this may still take a long time until it is all stable.
09:13:11 <Sheiksouth> Feb is the best month. Most tourist are gone and the weather is still great.
09:13:14 <warlord> Depends on your definition of "long time"
09:14:03 <Sheiksouth> Indeed a relative term. But 6 Months or so is no time in open source evellopment. Understand i am quite thankful that we don to get bugriden software as from Redmond.
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09:14:21 <warlord> heh
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09:20:14 <Sheiksouth> warlord: thanks for the chat and the info. Must be on my way now. Ta
09:20:27 <warlord> See ya!
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15:09:03 <Sheiksouth> Hi I am following this wiki http://gnucash.wikia.com/wiki/Create_UK_Accounts and it says on must select UK VAT accounts. But in my GC there is no such item in the list. Any insights?
15:09:16 <Sheiksouth> Any hepl is greatly appreciated.
15:13:37 <warlord> It's probably assuming the en_GB locale.
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15:17:31 <raleightile> if you post a bill does it record the expenses listed on the date of the line item or the date of posting?
15:18:21 <raleightile> for instance my internet provider, can i make a bill that has lines jan-dec each line dated for that month, with oct-on being in the future, and jan-now being in the past?
15:18:56 <warlord> The transaction has the Invoice date.
15:19:01 <warlord> not the line-item date
15:19:19 <raleightile> or will that show extreeme internet charges this month (of posting) and no charges for the others
15:19:21 <warlord> (there is only 1 date per transactions -- splits dont have dates)
15:19:46 <raleightile> so the date is for my information only on bills, not for accounting purposes
15:19:48 <warlord> well, you could do that, but the posted transaction wont itemize it for you.
15:19:54 <warlord> right
15:20:04 <warlord> accounting-wise it only counts when you post.
15:20:04 <raleightile> ok
15:20:18 <raleightile> that is because of the check box to combine splits
15:20:46 <raleightile> if i had not that option by default it would be working the other way, but my registers would be a mess?
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15:21:07 <warlord> No, the transaction date would still be the post date.
15:21:12 <raleightile> ok
15:21:25 <warlord> .. it would just be itemized, so you'd see each line-item. BUt the date would still all be the same
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15:22:42 <raleightile> warlord: if, I had the money you require to work on gnucash for a year, would you really work on it yourself..
15:23:29 <raleightile> or would you be better to find the next student(s) and let a bunch of them work on it under the other developers?
15:23:39 <warlord> I dont know
15:24:02 <raleightile> just curious
15:24:10 <warlord> If I could work on GnuCash full time and be paid for it.... I'd have to think about htat.
15:24:13 <raleightile> one warlord would buy a lot of student?
15:24:13 <warlord> that even
15:24:19 <warlord> True
15:24:39 <warlord> One warlord would probably buy 3-4 students (depending on overhead costs)
15:24:51 <warlord> but which would be more productive? ;)
15:24:57 <raleightile> exactly
15:26:20 <Sheiksouth> warlord: It's probably assuming the en_GB locale
15:26:56 <Sheiksouth> how do i set it to GB locale?
15:27:12 <warlord> Sheiksouth: you're better off copying the accounts files into your locale.
15:29:02 <Sheiksouth> warlord: I am still earning about VAT setup. The UK setup seems to have accounts set up for VAt. But how do I get these into my test scenario? Wheer od I copy from?
15:33:27 <warlord> Sheiksouth: copy the account templates into your locale, then use the New File/Hierarchy Druid to load them into your data file. Or just create the accounts.
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15:37:16 <Sheiksouth> warlord:Where do I find the account templates. I looked in the program directory and I looked in the .gnucash directory? When you say copy into you locale what do you actually mean by that? A local folder? I would just love to create the accounts they use but I dont know which ones are these that is why i thought I can jsut runn this and see how they do int in UK and then adopt it for me in ZA.
15:37:30 <Sheiksouth> Sorry for my ignorance and thanks for helping out.
15:38:08 <warlord> Look in <program dir>/share/gnucash/accounts/
15:39:54 <raleightile> on a vendor report, why doesn't it show the rolling balance, or balance forward?
15:42:00 <Sheiksouth> warlord: Ok got it, excellent. Now how do I fond out what my current locale is which GC uses?
15:42:59 <warlord> run "locale"
15:44:01 <warlord> raleightile: um, because that's not what it does?
15:44:16 <raleightile> ok, is there a report that does that?
15:49:41 <warlord> Ummmm... The account register report?
15:49:55 <Sheiksouth> warlord: run "locale" there is a folder in share called locale but there is no ZA subfolder and it seems the files in these subfolders are quite different. I understand right you want me to copy the share/gnucash/accounts/en_GB files to some other place where GC looks for the local ones?
15:50:00 <warlord> Open up your AR account, filter it appropriately.. ??
15:50:17 <warlord> Sheiksouth: what OS/Distro?
15:50:30 <Sheiksouth> Windows xp
15:50:37 <warlord> OH. Sorry, locale is a Linux command.
15:50:41 <Sheiksouth> i can also use Linux have it on my second notebook
15:50:52 <Sheiksouth> Ubuntu 10.4
15:50:58 <warlord> I'm not sure where Windows sets its locale.
15:51:18 <Sheiksouth> Oh I see the user directory. Got it.
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16:12:05 <seyfi> Hello
16:14:15 <seyfi> I want to translate gnucash. Have I got the process right? 1.) checkout from trunk 2.) translate 3.) submit .po to devel list.
16:15:03 <warlord> seyfi: pretty much. depends on the language. some languages use the translation project, some send directly to us.
16:15:05 <warlord> See the Wiki page
16:15:50 <seyfi> this is for turkish. It does not use translation project, i.e. marked as external.
16:16:44 <seyfi> the original translator is unreachable, its .po is pretty dead
16:17:14 <warlord> I would announce on -devel before you start, just to make sure.
16:17:22 <seyfi> ok. thanks.
16:17:35 <warlord> i do believe that you do have the process correct, but the wiki is more authoritative
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18:55:24 <Karen_m> How can I remove the 'discount' off my invoices? I do not want customers to know I didn't offer a discount
18:57:33 <Karen_m> How can I add a customer with only a name and email? Forcing an address kinda sucks
18:59:15 <kimmo> you'd better wait for jsled or warlord
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18:59:59 <Karen_m> kimmo, most of my clients only give me a name and email address now
19:00:03 <Karen_m> paid on day-of-event
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19:03:06 <Karen_m> does anyone else know how to remove the 'discount' column off an invoice?
19:04:37 <kimmo> jsled and warlord are the experts on the biz features
19:07:43 <jsled> warlord, really.
19:07:47 <jsled> I've barely used them.
19:08:01 <jsled> Karen_m: if you're unable to wait for a few hours, you might try the gnucash-user mailing list.
19:20:11 <kimmo> jsled, if you know reel quick where to find the constant, I'd appreciate increasing the number of "recent ledgers" entries in the File menu from 4 to an ENV value controllable amount, defaulting to 8
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23:23:17 <gp5st> hey! i'm really sorry; i know this exists online, but I feel toughly confused: I have an expense account. (1) would this be the correct account to use to save money for a specific goal? (2) expense is money that is coming into the account from another account and rebate is the cost of whatever was paid for?
23:23:50 <mishehu> I'd use an Asset account for money that I was saving for a specific purpose
23:24:15 <gp5st> ok
23:24:26 <mishehu> expense CAN be where the money goes to when it is taken out of somewhere else.
23:24:48 <mishehu> when it makes sense to charge it back to an expense account (also sometimes thought of as an expense category)
23:25:27 <gp5st> and the rebate with what the expense is paying for?
23:25:34 <mishehu> for example, if I purchase somethign with a credit card, the money moves "out" of my credit card (a form of liability account) to my expense account
23:26:10 <mishehu> but when I pay my monthly credit card statement, the money flows "out" of my Asset type account (i.e. bank account) to the credit card account
23:26:49 <mishehu> I personally do not use the term "rebate", but as I'm not actually an accountant perhaps it's the proper term.
23:26:56 <gp5st> which is the credit and which is the debit
23:27:11 <gp5st> "rebate" is the column header, otherwise i'd use whatever it said:-p
23:27:16 <mishehu> debit the credit card account, credit the expense account
23:27:29 <mishehu> eh I don't have it open and I operate all by habit these days :-)
23:27:31 <gp5st> do i debit my cc to pay for somethinging then credit the card to pay for it?
23:27:40 <gp5st> oh
23:27:42 <gp5st> thanks
23:27:52 <gp5st> i think this is starting to make sense, somewhat
23:28:00 <mishehu> then when you pay the credit card statement, you debit your bank account and credit the credit card account
23:28:08 <mishehu> basically it's like the laws of physics
23:28:18 <mishehu> for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction
23:28:23 <gp5st> yes, there has to be equal debits and credits
23:28:33 <gp5st> it just denotes the flow of money
23:28:42 <mishehu> so you take $50 from here, you better put that $50 over there
23:29:15 <gp5st> yes
23:29:27 <gp5st> unless you subscribe to the funny math sector
23:31:00 <gp5st> i'm confused
23:31:19 <mishehu> eh I have no sense of humor for funny math :-)
23:31:21 <gp5st> why are my profits positive if my assets are negative
23:31:45 <mishehu> do you have something in equity accounts?
23:31:50 <mishehu> maybe that's offsetting it
23:31:56 <gp5st> oh
23:31:59 <gp5st> i think i know
23:32:18 <gp5st> the opening balances is off bc i hand edited some accounts before i knew what was going on
23:32:30 <gp5st> maybe not...
23:34:28 <jsled> "debit" and "credit" can be counterintuitive in double-entry, depending on the account type.
23:34:45 <gp5st> ok, yeah, something must have been wrong with the "opening balances" bc i hand edited things
23:34:52 <jsled> use the registers of your asset and credit card accounts, and the debit- and credit-cell labels will be more intuitive
23:35:05 <jsled> "deposit"/"withdrawl". "expense"/"rebate". &c.
23:35:15 <gp5st> ah
23:35:30 <jsled> s/use/enter transactions from/
23:35:37 <gp5st> and it's always money-in/money out, right?
23:36:47 <jsled> I don't follow.
23:36:56 <mishehu> unfortunately taht's how it always is
23:36:57 <mishehu> money in, money out, where's my money now??? heh
23:37:19 <mishehu> oh crap I spent it all... just like in Futurama's "300 big boys"
23:37:19 <gp5st> i meant the columns: they are always money into an account/money out of an account?
23:38:31 <mishehu> the overally transaction has to conceptually equal 0
23:38:46 <gp5st> yes, i have that
23:38:58 <mishehu> or are you asking specifically about the layout?
23:39:02 <gp5st> yes
23:39:14 <mishehu> the form is for the most part rather uniform yeah
23:39:25 <gp5st> ok
23:39:30 <gp5st> i think i can handle this
23:39:30 <gp5st> maybe:-\
23:39:31 <mishehu> btw, a useful tip...
23:39:45 <gp5st> don't spend all my money on hookers and blow?
23:39:57 <mishehu> when you add a new transaction, if you're viewing the split you can add in more information than what you'd maybe want on the general transaction description
23:40:13 <mishehu> gp5st: 300 $1 hookerbots or 1 $300 hookerbot?
23:40:33 <gp5st> 1 $300 hookerbot
23:41:10 <mishehu> so like the main transaction line might say "Fry's Electronics", but when I view the split, on the line item for the Expense:Computer account, I might write "Fry's Electronics - 300 Hookerbots"
23:41:27 <gp5st> i see that
23:41:29 <gp5st> that is handy
23:41:48 <mishehu> that also means that if I open up the Expense:Computer account that I can know what the heck the purcahse was (default is a blank description)
23:42:31 <gp5st> yeah
23:43:03 <gp5st> thank you
23:45:10 <gp5st> now i have to get into the habit of writing every transaction down
23:45:19 <gp5st> and keeping this up-to-date
23:45:38 <gp5st> and then i can worry about trying to save money:-\ (sardonic laugh)
23:46:08 <mishehu> it helps with all except the saving money part to be OCD
23:46:09 <mishehu> heh
23:48:10 <gp5st> yeah
23:50:07 <gp5st> it's just that my student loans take up such a huge portion or my pay that even my dirt cheap apt makes my net income negative. i'm finding ways to supplement it and am looking into the "new?" income-based-repayment program, but i just had to move suddenly and i got into a bad spot so i really want to keep track of my money and actually try to budget for things (a novel idea)
23:50:22 <gp5st> pro-active instead of re-active budgeting I guess
23:50:37 <gp5st> mint.com has been nice, but i need something a little more flexiable
23:51:56 <gp5st> so saving money for something should be an asset (stashing money for it) not an expense (pretending like i already bought it an am paying it off)?
23:59:53 <gp5st> g'night and thanks again mishehu
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