2010-08-17 GnuCash IRC logs
01:20:44 *** MikeE has quit IRC
01:37:42 *** k4i has quit IRC
01:44:20 *** k4i has joined #gnucash
02:47:20 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
02:47:20 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
02:49:16 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
04:33:22 *** gour has joined #gnucash
04:33:33 <gour> morning
04:34:06 <gour> today i posted to user list via gmane, but the post is hel although gmane says 'posting allowed' ?
04:34:15 <gour> *held
05:46:28 *** MikeE has joined #gnucash
06:31:29 *** gour1 has joined #gnucash
06:38:37 *** gour has quit IRC
06:40:59 *** gour has joined #gnucash
06:47:47 *** gour1 has quit IRC
07:05:44 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
07:06:50 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
07:09:49 *** fell has joined #gnucash
07:23:08 *** gour has left #gnucash
07:44:16 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
08:00:18 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
08:14:04 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
08:17:23 *** fbond has joined #gnucash
09:03:37 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
09:04:46 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
09:10:23 *** gnucash_newbie has joined #gnucash
09:11:55 <gnucash_newbie> Hi, I am using gnucash to record my hosting business. so if a client paid a 3 years hosting, I would just do it as one transaction. a friend told me that's wrong because it shows in the income of that year but it should be distributed between the coming 3 years, does this make sense?
09:20:40 <krhovi> Well, what you should do is is this: When you send out an invoice for 3 * one year hosting, you record that as 1 * one year worth of income, 2 * one year worth of prepayments (Which you technically owe to the payer), and 3* one year worth of payments as accounts receivables
09:21:12 <krhovi> and then in subsequent years you "sell" them one year worth of hosting and they pay with the prepayment that you owe them
09:21:15 *** krhovi is now known as kimmo
09:32:24 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
09:37:45 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: thanks I am trying to understand what you said ....
09:38:27 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: you mean I put 3 items on the invoice?
09:38:43 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: i am not an accounting person ;)
09:39:17 <kimmo> no, the invoice you send them just has one line, "3 times 1 year's hosting 3 * $100 = $300"
09:39:51 <kimmo> but in gnucash, you handle that as if they pay for three now, but only receive one now (the income) and are pre-paying for the other two (the debt you owe them)
09:44:02 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: ok, i am still confused how to record it. Let's say I have an income account hosting and an assest account cash. Now when I received the $300 I used to make the transaction credited from hosting and debited to cash. but how can I handled this prpaid for the other two years?
09:45:44 <kimmo> you use the split button, and instead of entering 300 in the income.hosting row, you create another row, select the account liabilities.received_prepayments.customername and put 200 there
09:46:08 <kimmo> and in the coming years, you move 100 in january from the prepayments account to income account
09:46:13 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: that makes sense. let me try it
09:46:58 <kimmo> depending on the local legislation there might be some requirements regarding the handling especially if it is a contract that they cannot cancel
09:48:03 <kimmo> but at least in Finland and the US should record income to the financial year in which it is realised, regardless when it was irrevocably agreed to by the customer
09:52:04 *** kpreid has quit IRC
09:58:54 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: please look at http://imagebin.org/110067
09:58:55 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:59:20 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: is it correct like this?
09:59:33 <kimmo> nope
10:00:01 <gnucash_newbie> nope means what?
10:00:07 <kimmo> Income should read 100, and Assets.cash 300. The prepayment should be on the same side with Income
10:07:23 <kimmo> (And of course if you have any larger customer base, you should have per-customer accounts below the Prepayments)
10:13:03 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: another test for your patience ;) http://imagebin.org/110069
10:13:57 <kimmo> yes, now it's correct
10:14:15 <kimmo> (you could of course combine the 2 Assets.Cash rows into one row)
10:16:03 *** Askarii has joined #gnucash
10:17:11 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: thanks a lot now only the 100 shows in the income statemen whereas the 200 not ;)
10:17:46 <kimmo> and now your balance sheet tells you that you owe them 200 since you have not yet delivered the hosting for years 2011-2012 :)
10:25:26 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: exactly and now in subsequent years I will do like this: http://imagebin.org/110071
10:29:17 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: and the last thing and I would a professional accountant ;), what you mean by "per-customer accounts", do you mean I right-click liabilities and create a new account for kimmo.com and all my clients who are let's thousands and I make it a mess?
10:33:46 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo ooooooooooooooooooo
10:44:13 *** k4i has quit IRC
11:11:10 <kimmo> yes that is exactly what you do in subsequent years
11:12:44 <kimmo> by the "per customer" accounts I mean that instead of using "Liabilities:Prepayments" as such, you should make that a Placeholder account, and create accounts "Liabilities:Prepayments:Customer A Inc" and use those instead
11:13:15 <kimmo> that way from your balance sheet you not only know how much you owe in prepaid services that have not been delivered, but also who you owe those to
11:15:09 *** k4i has joined #gnucash
11:23:19 <gnucash_newbie> kimmo: but isn't making thousands of accounts a mess. I thought track a customer invoices from Business -> Customer-> Find Customer
11:39:49 <warlord> gnucash_newbie: you can do that, but you need to use the biz features invoicing/process payment functions for it to work.
11:39:59 <warlord> you cannot manually enter transactions.
11:40:40 <warlord> BIAB
11:40:52 *** warlord has quit IRC
11:47:25 *** bilroth has joined #gnucash
11:57:23 <gnucash_newbie> warlord thanks for hte clarification
12:01:53 *** bp0 has quit IRC
12:04:07 <bilroth> I have my funds set up the retrieve online quotes with Yahoo Europe (as it is the only source that works) but it keep retrieving my fund values in pence (i.e. their value is multiplied by 100), but stock are retrieved in pounds and are fine, is there is a simple solution to this as I can't find it in the manual
12:11:12 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
12:11:13 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
12:11:45 <fell> bilroth: probably http://readlist.com/lists/gnucash.org/gnucash-user/3/16001.html
12:12:45 <fell> warlord: that posting is missing in https://lists.gnucash.org/search/?query=pound&submit=Suche%21&max=20&result=normal&sort=date%3Alate&idxname=gnucash-user
12:13:02 <warlord> fell: a bunch of email from Aug 1-15 was lost.
12:13:39 <fell> 13.10.2009 13:34
12:14:28 <bilroth> I assume the useful one is missing, cause all I see is one about multiple users
12:15:48 <warlord> Eh? This is email from October, 2009? And it's missing from our archive??
12:18:07 <bilroth> I can see a message stating the same problem but no solution, does this mean it is not solved
12:19:32 <fell> warlord: https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2009-October/date.html shows https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2009-October/031763.html, but the above query not.
12:19:56 <warlord> Oh, so the search is busted. That's not surprising.
12:20:53 <bilroth> was apparently solved but link is dead and I have no idea what the short solution means: Found the solution on the following: It required downloading base.pm & europe.pm (older version, perhaps patched). If I have time, will check the diff between FQ1.17's base.pm & euro.pm
12:20:53 <bilroth> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Problems-getting-quotes-for-funds-td16567083.html#a1 6566108
12:22:17 *** bslashx1a4 has joined #gnucash
12:22:17 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: thanks for you hint that biz features can be used instead of separate account for each customer
12:22:48 <fell> bilroth: I would use yahoo instead of yahoo_europe, because europe is often changing the format.
12:24:14 <bilroth> fell: have tried that but yahoo wont retrieve the quotes of the all the options only yahoo europe does
12:26:21 *** Askarii has quit IRC
12:27:36 <fell> http://readlist.com/lists/gnucash.org/gnucash-user/1/8226.html ?
12:28:13 <fell> (I put the word from the link in google)
12:29:09 <fell> warlord: can you fix the search?
12:29:48 <warlord> fell: We've been talking about how.. namazu is pretty opaque to me/us. I have no idea how it indexes or searches.
12:30:13 <warlord> I think our best bet might be to embrace a google search, but I dont know how to theme the results.
12:31:26 <fell> didn't _you_ choose namazu?
12:32:17 <warlord> yes, years and years ago.
12:34:45 <warlord> I suppose I can try to figure out how to completely re-index?
12:35:20 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: when I view the trial balance report there is a .2 difference between debit and credit. is this my mistake or gnucash's
12:35:38 <warlord> gnucash_newbie: no clue. I dont use the trial balance.
12:36:07 <warlord> is the balance sheet off? P&L?
12:36:16 <fell> gnucash_newbie: do you use foreign currencies?
12:36:38 <bilroth> fell: thanks for that, I have very little idea what that solution actually means but I will go away and experiment
12:36:48 *** spiffytech has joined #gnucash
12:37:17 *** fbond has quit IRC
12:37:36 <fell> bilroth: F::Q version?
12:37:47 <gnucash_newbie> fell:I am using SAR as a currency
12:38:09 <warlord> gnucash_newbie: do you have multiple currencies?
12:38:20 <warlord> (or stocks/securities)?
12:38:42 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: no, only one currency
12:38:52 <gnucash_newbie> no stocks no securities
12:39:05 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
12:39:18 <fell> SAR is your default currency?
12:40:10 <gnucash_newbie> fell: yes
12:41:07 <fell> hm, then it's no multicurrency problem. your GC version?
12:42:13 <gnucash_newbie> fell: 2.2.9
12:44:22 <spiffytech> Is there a good way to assign accounts to transactions in bulk? I'm trying to import a year's bank logs, and I'd really like to be able to say "use category X for anything with 'mcdonald' in it"
12:44:27 <bilroth> fell: sorry took me a while to work that out if it is libfinanc-quote-perl then I am on version 1.17-1
12:44:40 <warlord> spiffytech: which import mechanism?
12:46:17 <spiffytech> warlord: File -> Import -> Import QIF.
12:47:10 <warlord> the qif importer performs matches on full strings, but it will map same-string payees/memos to the same account. But it cannot match substrings.
12:47:34 <warlord> So "McDonalds 12345" will not be the same as "McDonalds 23456".
12:48:09 <warlord> You can pre-process the QIF and add Categories (LCategory), and then gnucash will let you map the categories to income/expense accounts.
12:48:37 *** gnucash_newbie has left #gnucash
12:48:49 *** gnucash_newbie has joined #gnucash
12:49:57 <fell> bilroth: should be most recent. (gnc-fq-check gave me the version somewhat quicker)
12:50:17 <spiffytech> warlord: LCategory?
12:51:24 <bilroth> fell: I see this is problem is still an open bug in F::Q http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=50237 , is there something weird that stops me downloading British based mutual fund from any other source
12:51:51 <warlord> spiffytech: yep
12:52:14 <gnucash_newbie> if I isse an invoice of gnucash.org domain renewal to warlord at $30, I need to pay $20 to godaddy. warlod is a cutomer in gnucash but how can I record this $20 in a way related to that $30 so I can tell that warlord really benefit me with $10
12:53:15 <warlord> gnucash_newbie: vendor bill to godaddy for $20, chargeback to warlord. invoice warlord, include the chargeback, and change the price to 30.
12:53:41 <spiffytech> warlord: Ah, I see it's a field in QIF files. Can you recommend any handy tools to do the QIF processing, or do I need to turn to shell scripting?
12:54:08 <warlord> spiffytech: qif is just a text format. use your favorite text editor.
12:54:30 <fell> but sometimes there are pending patches at http://sourceforge.net/projects/finance-quote/
12:54:31 <warlord> or feel free to script updates using PERL or some other tool
12:55:42 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: how can I include the "chargeback". I would issue the invoice and receive the $30 even before I know how much the vender would ask for
12:56:11 <warlord> gnucash_newbie: then you cant
12:56:24 <warlord> chargeback implies paying the vendor first.
12:56:37 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: where is this chargeback option?
12:56:51 <fell> bilroth: if they are listed at yahoo_europe, you should be able to switch to yahoo,
12:57:07 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: ok I found it
12:57:26 <gnucash_newbie> warlord: but is my situation rare? how people deal with such things normally?
12:59:05 <warlord> I dunno.
12:59:14 <warlord> I've never used the chargeback feature myself
12:59:58 <bilroth> fell: I thought that too but I am unable to retrieve quotes from there or any other source, maybe I need to change the symbol, I will look it into it cheers
13:00:50 <fell> else you could probably use the list at http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Referenz#Liste_der_Kursquellen to find other sources.
13:02:33 <fell> the symbols are different for different sources.
13:03:27 <fell> yahoo needs often an appendix currency-symbol or .place
13:08:51 <fell> bilroth: for testing symbols you can use gnc-fq-dump.
13:16:41 <bilroth> fell: I dont suppose gnc-fq-dump has anyway of pulling up a list of symbols for each source that I could pass through grep
13:21:26 <fell> no, but every source has a website, where usually lies a list. e.g. above wiki page list the websites, extracted frm the man pages of the modules.
13:25:49 <bilroth> fell: I am aware of that but can only find working references for my funds on yahoo.co.uk (annoyingly) for example if you can find a source that will retrieve Gartmore China Opportunities Retail Acc in pounds then... well you are better than me
13:26:24 <fell> bilroth: your idea should eventually be a feature request for F::Q.
13:40:11 *** KaiForce has joined #gnucash
13:55:23 <gnucash_newbie> thanks all for the great hints, bye
13:55:57 *** gnucash_newbie has left #gnucash
14:39:38 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
14:45:11 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
15:14:10 *** sjc has quit IRC
15:16:51 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
15:23:27 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
16:13:25 *** markjenkinsparit has joined #gnucash
16:13:29 *** markjenkinsparit has left #gnucash
17:04:30 *** bilroth has quit IRC
17:09:03 *** k4i has quit IRC
17:11:34 *** MikeE has quit IRC
17:16:22 *** KaiForce has quit IRC
17:21:31 *** felle has joined #gnucash
17:29:01 *** fell has quit IRC
17:30:37 *** kpreid_ has joined #gnucash
17:30:46 *** felle is now known as fell
17:54:01 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
17:58:54 *** andyt has quit IRC
18:11:05 *** cortana has joined #gnucash
19:27:49 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
19:29:59 *** sjc has quit IRC
19:59:30 *** fbond has joined #gnucash
20:17:37 *** cortana has quit IRC
20:25:30 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
20:26:27 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
21:26:32 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
21:26:37 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
21:39:23 *** warlord-afk has quit IRC
21:50:50 *** Reese1872 has joined #gnucash
21:51:45 <Reese1872> I'm starting to get the hang of the multi-splits and stuff... just did a 4 way split to account for purchasing something online using a netspend card, plus the transaction fee on the card (woot!)
21:52:44 <Reese1872> Now I'm starting to wonder.... if I make an online purchase to refill some supplies... should I just mark that as a transaction (between expense:supplies:whatever and assets:debitcard)? Or should I make a vendor entry for the online supplier and learn how to pay that way instead?
21:52:54 <Reese1872> ie: I'm stumped on when to use a vendor entry, and what the heck it is
21:59:21 <jsled> if you have a small business, and you have vendors that give you product, perhaps on credit terms like net-30 … then you'd want to use vendors and accounts-payable.
21:59:29 <jsled> if you're just buying supplies in a store, probably not.
22:01:27 <Reese1872> sweet thanks for the tip
22:02:21 <Reese1872> i'm noticing now that when i do a 4-way split, my ledgers only show "Split Transaction" in the Transfer column, not a transfer account.... is it advisable for me to do these 4-way splits, or just to do one transaction for the purchase, and a second for the service charge on my prepaid debit
22:02:59 <Reese1872> like, i was assuming by doing the service charge inside the same transaction as the purchase, i was retaining more data... but am i really any better off?
22:03:29 <jsled> "Split Transaction" is only a visual thing … you're likely in the "Basic Register" style, or whatever it's called … it assumes that most transactions are going to have exactly two splits: one for the account of the register you're viewing, and one for the "other side".
22:03:55 <jsled> In a >2-split transaction, there's more than one "other side", so it's impossible to choose one to show.
22:04:44 <Reese1872> I'm ok with that in the register view.... but is this going to later screw up reports and stuff? or is it fine... and which way would you personally do it
22:05:14 <jsled> As for the service charge … it's really a function of when the transaction is actually applied.
22:05:33 <jsled> reports are generally fine with properly-split transactions; I woudln't worry about that.
22:06:06 <Reese1872> its a prepaid debit that I use to prevent my house from piling up with loose cash (i sell stuff at shows)... so the transaction fee is applied the instant i make any purchase
22:06:15 <Reese1872> cool
22:06:18 <jsled> then there you go
22:06:18 <jsled> :)
22:06:50 <Reese1872> man this thing rocks and so do you and this room
22:06:51 <Reese1872> jesus h
22:07:28 <jsled> heh. thanks.
22:52:04 *** fbond has quit IRC
23:04:35 *** talso has quit IRC
23:04:35 *** gary has quit IRC
23:04:35 *** Mer|in has quit IRC
23:04:35 *** Linuturk has quit IRC
23:04:35 *** jsled has quit IRC
23:05:17 *** jsled has joined #gnucash
23:05:17 *** talso has joined #gnucash
23:05:17 *** gary has joined #gnucash
23:05:17 *** Linuturk has joined #gnucash
23:05:17 *** Mer|in has joined #gnucash
23:05:17 *** irc.gimp.ca sets mode: +o jsled
23:05:17 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jsled
23:06:36 *** Reese1872 has quit IRC
23:34:36 *** k4i has joined #gnucash
23:57:23 *** fell has quit IRC