2010-07-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:32:39 <k4i> hi everybody
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06:39:26 <k4i> I've a question about Equity type accounts and Income:Salary. I'm located in Ukraine and neither checkbooks nor credit cards are widely used over here so in my case I get (you just go to the accounting department and get your money handed into your hands) salary from a company A. I'm a little ...
06:39:32 <k4i> ... unsure how to reflect these transactions in GC. Should I use Equity:Opening Balances for each month transactions?
06:41:48 <k4i> Like, each time I get a salary I would make a transaction FROM Equity:OB to Income:Salary which would increase Equity:OB's balance... I just don't know if this is what I want (ya, sounds stupid I know... even after reading a nice GC manual)
06:42:27 <kimmo> equity is only used when opening books
06:43:01 <k4i> books or balances for any types of accounts (something I learned from GC manual)
06:43:04 <k4i> ?
06:43:56 <kimmo> for salary, you want income.salary and assets.bank accounts
06:45:00 <k4i> assets.bank->income.salary right?
06:45:55 <k4i> then where do money come from into assets.bank?
06:46:05 <k4i> ? -> assets.bank
06:47:05 <k4i> this is basically what puzzles me a bit. how does one account for accounts that you don't really have control over?
06:49:31 <kimmo> you should look in the options for the "use proper accounting labels" option and disable that
06:50:53 <kimmo> the one transaction you make increases the balance on both salary and bank accounts
06:51:22 <k4i> it seems so
06:51:39 <kimmo> the salary account balance is simply a running total of income of that sort, whereas the bank account is actual money
06:55:06 <k4i> i retract my previous message
06:56:00 <k4i> I just made a test transaction transferring money from a bank type account to an income type account and this transaction decreased and increased both accounts respectively.
06:56:43 <k4i> are you sure this type of transaction increases both account involved?
06:57:41 <k4i> hm
06:57:43 <k4i> okay
06:58:57 <k4i> I made a withdrawal from a bank account so the salary decreased too
07:02:42 <kimmo> you should really look up the option i mentioned
07:14:32 <k4i> is it called "Use formal accounting labels"?
07:16:39 <kimmo> yes
07:16:46 <kimmo> disable that
07:17:32 <k4i> actually, it was disabled (now that I enabled it I can see Debit/Credit in all accounts registers)
07:17:35 <kimmo> then you notice that income in an income account and increase in an asset account are on opposite sides
07:21:11 <k4i> I'm still unsure how to account for all the money coming in from different sources... like besides Salary that a company A gives me I help various people do something they need help with and they pay me in cash. So, this is basically "Cash in Wallet" but what transfer account should I use? A ...
07:21:17 <k4i> ... Bank type account again?
07:32:40 <blathijs> Isn't there a cash type account? Or just a general asset, then
07:33:31 <kimmo> k4i, Income.Other
07:33:52 <kimmo> and that goes into Assets.Cash at hand
07:36:02 <k4i> okay, point is I'm new to both GC and accounting
07:36:39 <kimmo> and that's fine
07:37:14 <kimmo> you don't have to do everything right at first, either (Unless you're a business owner in which case you should prolly hire a professional accountant)
07:37:50 <kimmo> where are you located?
07:38:15 <k4i> my concern is that for accounts that I don't really have control of their balance is going to grow negative (correct?) ... and I simply don't know if it's a bad thing or it's the way things work in accounting.
07:38:42 <k4i> I don't know how to put it well
07:38:55 <kimmo> well, some accounts grow "positive" when the left side increases, some grow "positive" when the right side increases
07:38:57 <k4i> in essence I've several source of income
07:39:29 <k4i> yeah, I read about that and keep that in mind
07:39:33 <kimmo> for example, for income accounts, the right hand side is the "positive" side, but for assets, it's vice versa
07:40:34 <kimmo> in the preferences, you should probably set on accounts page the "Reverse balance accounts" to the "Credit accounts"
07:40:58 <kimmo> that way the black, or positive figures indicate a "normal" situation in all accounts
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07:42:24 <k4i> blathijs, there is, point is how do I reflect money coming INTO that type of account? Basically I don't have someone else account in GC to transfer their money into my account :))
07:42:53 <kimmo> k4i, you can always create accounts on the fly
07:43:22 <k4i> yes, but how would I reflect money coming into those alien accounts from some other places? :D
07:43:31 <kimmo> you don't have to have someone else's accounts, the info you need (and have) is (a) How much your income is from them, and (b) How much they owe you
07:43:33 <k4i> see what I'm trying to say?
07:43:43 <kimmo> you use the Income.Other account
07:44:12 <kimmo> or the Assets.Loans to friends
07:44:40 <k4i> to reflect money received and money loaned, right?
07:44:50 <k4i> lent *
07:45:12 <kimmo> yeah
07:46:08 <kimmo> so when you loan some money to a guy, you record that as assets.bank -> assets.loans to friends, and when they pay you back, you record a transaction in the other direction
07:46:35 <kimmo> and when someone pays you $10 to fix their toilet main (yes, you're that cheap ;) ) you record a Income.other -> assets.Cash transaction
07:47:40 <k4i> assets.loans to friends being a Bank type account, correct?
07:48:18 <kimmo> no, just an Asset type
07:48:37 <k4i> ok
07:48:55 <k4i> just to avoid ambiguity
07:48:57 <kimmo> basically you only need Asset, Liability, Income, and Expense types of accounts unless you want to do something fancy
07:49:12 <k4i> > you record a Income.other -> assets.Cash transaction
07:49:19 <kimmo> yeah
07:49:43 <k4i> Income.other (Income type) and assets.Cash (Asset type)
07:49:51 <k4i> Am I getting this right?
07:49:54 <kimmo> yeah
07:52:22 <k4i> > basically you only need Asset, Liability, Income, and Expense types of accounts unless you want to do something fancy // cool, exactly what I've been thinking. I started out with default Accounts Chart but I found it a bit overwhelming but I like the fact that it's pretty much detailed, though.
07:52:50 <k4i> anyway, I've already set up all the basic accounts type and am playing with transactions just to see how each type of account works :)
07:53:55 <kimmo> if you want, you can introduce all kinds of Stock, Mutual Fund, Accounts Receivables accounts, but I'm not a big fan of them for basic accounting
07:54:29 <kimmo> I used to use them but reverted back to the basic 4 (Oh, and a single Equity account for the opening balances) this january
07:56:24 <k4i> I simply don't have a real need for those "advanced" accounts
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07:56:41 <k4i> as you can see I'm still struggling setting up the basic accounting in GC :))
07:57:03 <kimmo> I don't think anyone has a real need for those for personal finances
07:57:12 <kimmo> I don't even use them in my businesses
07:58:46 <k4i> I'm planning to go into investing so I'd love to play with GC and see if it can help somehow manage investments better than simply keeping it all in your head or in a spreadsheet app :)
07:59:15 <kimmo> it's a great tool for that
08:00:55 <k4i> oh btw
08:01:56 <k4i> I was wondering what Imbalance (Bank type) account is used for in the standard accounts chart?
08:02:10 <k4i> Do you happen to know that by any chance?
08:03:36 <kimmo> it's automatically created when you enter transactions that do not balance out. you should look in it and fix those transactions
08:04:28 <kimmo> like when you enter a transaction where you increate your bank account balance, but enter no other account, GC automatically uses the Imbalance account, creating it if it doesn't exist
08:05:19 <k4i> thanks for clarifying that :)
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08:10:42 <kimmo> np
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08:30:47 <warlord> k4i: One thing that wasn't pointed out..
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08:31:19 <warlord> Income and Expense accounts are "magic". They are the magic sources and sinks of money into and out of the system. In effect they are parts of Equity.
08:32:06 <warlord> So when you make a transaction from income into Cash, you are in effect adjusting your equity because when you increase the income account you're increasing your equity.. and that balances the increase in your asset (you have more cash in your wallet)
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08:40:13 <k4i> warlord, thanks! It might not make sense to me yet... I mean like completely.... but I'll remember that and try to keep it in mind when working with GC.
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08:41:25 <warlord> k4i: also, it might make more sense to you to always enter transactions from Asset and Liability accounts. The money flows make more "sense" that way
08:44:18 <k4i> yeah, I've just made two test accounts of Asset and Income types, and made a test transaction from Income to Asset as kimmo advised and I saw that both accounts' balances increased indeed. Now that you suggest approaching the transfers of funds from Assets and Liabilities it really makes more ...
08:44:22 <k4i> ... sense now. Thanks!
08:44:35 <warlord> you're welcome
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09:20:47 <k4i> kimmo, I've just set up 4 basic accounts (Asset, Liability, Income, Expense) and I'm wondering when I would want to use Equity account for opening balances with such chart of accounts
09:22:00 <k4i> basically, let's assume my friend paid me $10 for fixing his toilet main, all the accounts are currently blank. Should I open any balances at all to record this transaction?
09:31:32 <warlord> k4i: you only use Equity when you start GnuCash for the first time. So let's say you start accounting *today*.. You'd use Equity to record how much money is in your pocket right now.
09:34:10 <k4i> do I HAVE to have any records in Equity account at all?
09:35:33 <blathijs> warlord: You'd also use Equity accounts when closing off a period, right? (e.g., as the target of the net result)
09:35:57 <warlord> k4i: if you have assets or liabilities when you start, yes.
09:36:31 <warlord> k4i: if you start your accounting with $0 in your pocket, $0 in the bank, and $0 owed to anyone, then no, you dont need Equity. But few people fall into that category.
09:36:49 <warlord> blathijs: True, but I was trying not to complicate the issue.
09:37:45 <blathijs> warlord: Ok, just to confirm that I've not misunderstood ;-)
09:40:17 <k4i> > 16:36 <@warlord> k4i: if you start your accounting with $0 in your pocket, $0 in the bank, and $0 owed to anyone, then no, you dont need Equity. But few people fall into that category. // exactly my thoughts. people usually have at least some cash in their hands/pockets/etc.
09:41:49 <warlord> k4i: right, which is why you need to use Equity, to account for that money when you start.
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11:58:07 <cmaker3> hello all. just a test
11:59:28 <cmaker3> question about gnucash. is there any documentation on how to migrate quicken data into gnucash? thanks in advance.
12:01:51 <kimmo> warlord is your documentation on that
12:03:02 <warlord> cmaker3: Thats very much in the documentation
12:03:40 <cmaker3> ok. thanks.
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13:17:53 <wesleyrellis> hello
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13:21:59 <wesleyrellis> hello again
13:22:10 <wesleyrellis> Has anyone heard any news about 2.4?
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17:13:07 <miski1969> Hi, I'm running Gnucash 2.2.9 for Windows (XP) & need to transfer my data to a new PC. All defaults were accepted when installing. Can anyone tell me which files I ned to copy. Thanks
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17:30:26 <miski1969> Ok, I think I've figured it out.
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