2010-06-09 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:12:43 <gour> morning
02:13:55 <gour> on the dev list i see some patches for python bindings...does it mean one will be able to use python instead of guile for e.g. tweaking reports?
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02:59:18 <kimmo> they were posted 10 hours ago, maybe there's some info in bugzilla about them?
03:21:46 <gour> ahh, i thought i'm quite behind development focus...
03:22:29 <gour> otoh, i'm not aware i saw some discussion about using python with gnucash...
03:28:44 <kimmo> mark was here 11 hours ago telling that he just submitted the patches ;)
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05:37:04 <mOrO^> Im interested in making a template for a typical "Flower Shop". Are there any around?
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08:21:59 <warlord> gour: no.
09:00:55 <gour> warlord: ahh...so we are (still) destined to guile
09:03:16 <warlord> Yes
09:03:36 <warlord> As I said in email, python is only for writing external programs. There will not be a python interpreter in gnucash.
09:14:53 <gour> ok. thanks for clarification
09:20:18 <warlord> you're welcome.
09:32:24 <warlord> linas_: you around?
09:32:25 <warlord> @op linas_
09:32:26 *** gncbot sets mode: +o linas_
09:32:46 <linas_> hi
09:32:58 <warlord> Hey there. ns.linas.org didn't take my DNS update again.
09:33:09 <linas_> argh.
09:33:19 <warlord> That was my sentiment
09:33:29 <warlord> ns.gnucash.org took it just fine.
09:44:44 <linas_> looks like you'd also made a change on may 11, and it looks like that one took automatically, right?
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09:54:18 <warlord> I dont recall.
09:54:42 <warlord> I think you kicked it on 5/11 too
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18:02:29 <simon_> Hi all -- using 2.2.7 on openSuse 11.3, installed last night. Entered 100's of transax including import, all seemed ok
18:03:03 <simon_> Today I find that only transax from April or May or June (depending on account) show in register
18:03:30 <simon_> but they are in reports, and can be found with "find" in register
18:03:49 <simon_> any ideas?
18:05:25 <simon_> BTW using this vers 'cos latest won't install, and am fairly experienced user, so while could be something simple, don't think I'm missing anything obvious
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18:06:26 <kimmo> sounds really weird
18:06:37 <kimmo> have you tried the general ledger, do they show up there?
18:08:45 <simon_> earliest trans in general is from May, whereas earliest in other reg is April - which is even wierder ! database contains trans back to 2008
18:11:27 <simon_> as far as I can tell using reports, there is nothing missing from db, just that all account registers show only recent trans
18:11:51 <simon_> most registers I've checked show only the most recent 2 trans
18:12:30 <simon_> View>Filter By has options, but these are unchanged at "Show All"
18:13:09 <simon_> Have tried to set date range prior to last few months but no change
18:19:23 <kimmo> that's odd
18:19:59 <kimmo> being a programmer myself, my next step would be to disable the encryption/compression of save file, save the damn thing, and open it up in the editor and look for the missing ones
18:20:07 <simon_> been using regularly for 3 yrs and been rock solid up to now
18:20:28 <simon_> makes sense - is it plain text ish?
18:20:44 <simon_> except they must be in the file 'cos they show in reports
18:21:01 <kimmo> it's a xml
18:21:33 <kimmo> if they show up in income statement, just expand it to X levels deep, and open the registers from there?
18:21:52 <kimmo> if you've done them with imports, maybe they are in hidden accounts?
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18:22:03 <kimmo> (no experience with imports here tho, just a wild guess)
18:22:06 <simon_> ah yes, remeber from when I tried to do custom reports - gave up!
18:22:22 <kimmo> I've been using gnucash since umm, 1998 or so, no real complaints
18:22:31 <simon_> no, none of accs are hidden
18:23:25 <kimmo> only real complaints come from 1.x age when there was no real autosave feature, and there was no "replay log" option, and I ran my desktop 24/7, and occasionally had to manually replay a log of 4 weeks or so
18:23:45 <kimmo> (due to my desktop crashing for one reason or another, unrelated to gnucash)
18:24:10 <kimmo> I also managed to get my auditor to install gnucash, he was pretty impressed with it, too
18:24:20 <kimmo> "So, this costs nothing? and it's legal you say?"
18:25:00 <simon_> If I can't recover this, it's about 4hrs work lost, but I can't say it'll put me off - generally v impressed
18:25:41 <simon_> reporting not too flexible but this I think is first problem ever
18:27:28 <simon_> I'll turn off compression and have a look for the hell of it, and try datafile on another installation when I have time
18:28:05 <simon_> but - register and reports must use same db, so it is very wierd
18:28:34 <kimmo> you might also want to talk to warlord, he's the main developer for about 10 years now, he should know more
18:28:57 <kimmo> I'm only a measly end user who likes tweaking the reports
18:30:52 <simon_> I'll appreciate any help - 'tho installing the latest build from source defeated me - I was missing some devf files, and I'm not techy enough to overcome it
18:31:04 <simon_> I assume dev would advise latest build
18:31:16 <kimmo> what operating system and distribution are you using?
18:31:25 <simon_> opensuse 11.2
18:31:43 <kimmo> that has yum, right?
18:31:55 <simon_> ah....
18:32:21 <simon_> I use yast, but I think it has yim... you think that could get latest installed automagically?
18:32:24 <simon_> yum
18:32:39 <kimmo> well, at least I got my gnucash from a yum mrepo
18:33:15 <kimmo> then again, I run fedora 11, and gnucash was available from a fedora repo
18:33:25 <kimmo> so a simply 'yum install gnucash' was sufficient
18:34:02 <simon_> thinking about it logically, (assuming I'm not missing an option, which as it stopped working by itself is unlikely)
18:34:34 <simon_> it has to be the installation that's corrupted, or the datafile
18:35:32 <simon_> I'll try the datafile on a different install
18:36:42 <kimmo> I work days as a system admin so I rarely venture into the compile-self-world anymore at home
18:37:04 <kimmo> which probably is why I'm stuck with 2.2.9 on a fedora laptop that's no longer supported
18:37:08 <kimmo> heh
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18:39:12 <simon_> well, if it works, don't fix it, some say
18:40:04 <simon_> I'm not necessarily one of those people though!
18:41:05 <kimmo> I'm one of them
18:41:34 <kimmo> why aim for the bleeding edge, when you have all the tools necessary already?
18:42:02 <simon_> sudo yum install gnucash - "Nothing to do"
18:42:40 <simon_> Yeah understood - I keep a installation one one partition which I don't mess with, and have other parts for messing around
18:43:04 <simon_> so is it "yum upgrade gnucash"?
18:43:15 <kimmo> yeah
18:43:27 <kimmo> what does 'rpm -qi gnucash' tell you?
18:44:18 <simon_> "No Packages marked for Update"
18:44:21 <simon_> standby
18:46:02 <simon_> tells me I should be using the same box to irc so I could paste it to you!
18:46:08 <simon_> but that box is offline
18:46:10 <simon_> darn
18:46:10 <kimmo> heh
18:47:36 <simon_> hang on... what a plonker
18:47:44 <simon_> course its online
18:48:04 <simon_> just see if i has irc client
18:48:06 <kimmo> well, as a 20 year linux veteran, 15 year sysadmin veteran, let me give you a piece of advice: Unless you really really really know you need the absolute latest version, or are developing, it's almost always the best option to use whatever your distribution has to offer via apt-get or yum or up2date or whatever package manager you use
18:49:22 <simon_> makes sense - I'd like to learn more, and be comfortable with installing from source for my own satisfaction, not necessarily to get latest versions
18:50:11 <simon_> tho I have heard installing from source can make progs lean and fast if you know what you're doing
18:50:58 <kimmo> sure, but think of it this way: If you want to do productive stuff, you don't want to spend time looking for dependencies, troubleshooting etc. You want something that someone else has tested
18:51:11 <kimmo> even if it's not the latest and greatest
18:51:26 <kimmo> I have a LFS desktop in the study that I use for tinkering
18:51:33 <kimmo> LFS as in linux-from-scratch
18:51:42 <kimmo> now THAT is a great way to learn stuff
18:52:30 <simon_> sure - I'm just a user who wants to be a geek. Yes, have thought about LFS, but I'd need a week or more to sit down and do it (without beer in rthe evening) I reckon
18:54:21 <kimmo> oh it takes a few months
18:54:34 <simon_> yeah, week - who am I kidding?
18:54:41 <kimmo> but it sure is worth it
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18:55:03 <kimmo> you learn a lot about how linux and unix-like OSs are built
18:55:35 <kimmo> well, GNU/Linux to be exact, linux is just the kernel ;)
18:55:47 <jsled> gentoo >> lfs. :)
18:56:04 <kimmo> jsled, you can take your 'emerge world' elsewhere ;)
18:56:12 <simon_> I'm a broadcast engineer, so like to think I could do it if I set my mind to it, and would like to earn a living with nix instead, 'cos I hate TV, but it seems a long way away
18:56:39 <simon_> 'cos modern distros do seem to "just work"
18:56:41 <kimmo> where you at?
18:56:43 <jsled> super quick install, a good package manager, a mostly up to date package tree, and a lot of ability to get into how things work.
18:56:47 <jsled> kimmo: :)
18:56:53 <simon_> London
18:57:21 <simon_> yep, had gentoo recommended as a learning distro also
18:57:32 <kimmo> well first thing tomorrow morning you call in sick, go out and get a generic PC clone and start your lfs
18:58:00 <kimmo> gentoo is like buying a model airplane with a single threat to pull to complete the job
18:58:04 <kimmo> like, what's the point?
18:58:09 <simon_> I'm freealnce, and tomorrow meeting with new client, but thanks for the encouragement!
18:58:09 <kimmo> thread
18:58:44 <kimmo> if you want, I'll trade my nix admin contract for your broadcasting contract? ;)
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18:59:04 <simon_> I kind of agree - the "from scratch" is the thing - nothing like building something to understand it
18:59:22 <kimmo> indeed
18:59:33 <simon_> TV rots the brain and makes you stupid
18:59:45 <simon_> been doing it for 25 years and want out
19:00:08 <simon_> trouble is I can't do anything else
19:00:33 <simon_> actuallly I thought FX may be the way to go
19:00:38 <kimmo> like, you can get them DIY speaker sets with al the components, circuit board, case, elements, instructions; And you can simply get the component list and go hunt
19:00:48 <simon_> CGI on nix, some houses use it I think
19:01:50 <kimmo> if you know unix, there's no shortage of jobs for you
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19:03:23 <simon_> Can't quite bring myself to make the jump and the commitment to learn at 45, but I might just do it one day
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19:04:18 <kimmo> what is the worst thing that can happen? You'll be short £400 and get a few nags from the wifey
19:04:45 <kimmo> I can think of quite a few worse ways to spend 400 quid
19:05:05 <simon_> 400 fro what? for RHCE?
19:06:10 <simon_> very tolerant topic police here btw, sorry to others
19:06:20 <kimmo> no, for a crappy ass desktop PC to play with
19:06:42 <jsled> *cough* virtualbox *cough*
19:07:03 <simon_> Oh, I've got a few lying around, that's not an issue at all - unless compile time is significant?
19:07:29 <kimmo> compile time ain't no issue unless you're talking PII or worse
19:07:53 <simon_> well, you may think me a wimp jsled, but that extra "layer" would bother me....
19:08:17 <kimmo> I remember compiling the kernel for 14 hours some 15 years ago. 16 megs ram or so, but not swapping bad
19:08:26 <kimmo> jsled, party pooper
19:08:50 <simon_> I only started using lvm 'cos the howto for full disk encrypt used it....
19:09:22 <simon_> I suppose it needs a differnt way of thinking
19:09:23 <jsled> hey, it's *easier* than a spare box. lower barrier to entry.
19:09:55 <simon_> 4 way kvm with a spare port....
19:10:31 <kimmo> virtualization is shit. not the shit. just shit
19:10:43 <simon_> lol
19:10:54 <kimmo> except for hw virtualization like AIX lpars
19:11:19 <kimmo> it's like, you run virtualbox if you want to use itunes on linux
19:11:21 <kimmo> and that's it
19:11:56 <jsled> or do IE browser-compat.
19:12:03 <jsled> or sandbox'ed VPN access.
19:12:07 <jsled> or run windows.
19:12:09 <jsled> or … :)
19:12:18 <simon_> funnily enough I was thinking of using virt for windoze... haven't used any since XP. Friends ask me to help with their box, and I'm not familair with it anymore
19:12:30 <kimmo> for 1 and 3, I'll have to say, why would anyone ever want to do that?
19:12:40 <simon_> of course I try to get them on Ubuntu or mint or something
19:13:10 <kimmo> give them fedora 13, they'll never go back
19:13:20 <jsled> because we have customers who use our product with IE, and some corporate tools are only available on windows.
19:13:53 <kimmo> jsled, that's what the "Supported browsers: Firefox 3.0 and up" disclaimer is for
19:14:08 <kimmo> and for them corporate tools, you have rdesktop
19:14:22 <jsled> heh
19:14:28 <jsled> (on both counts :)
19:14:30 <simon_> It certainly looks lovely (Fedora) I've got 3 yrs plus time with opensuse which is why I stick with it
19:15:57 <kimmo> I can wholeheartedly suggest fedora for any first time user, and any veteran
19:16:10 <kimmo> I installed fedora 11 and a WinXP theme for my wife
19:16:14 <kimmo> no going back
19:17:03 <kimmo> about the only negative was that flash player and plugin for firefox wasn't trivially installed
19:17:11 <kimmo> but other than that, my wife was impressed
19:17:31 <kimmo> "So I can actually IM you when you're at work, and you can fix me up real time?"
19:18:34 <simon_> Most just want to do their stuff and won't care as long as it works
19:18:43 <simon_> might not even know
19:18:54 <simon_> aprt from mac heads that is
19:19:10 <kimmo> jsled, in my previous employment I gave that disclaimer to a customer once, they asked why, I gave them some list of IE vulnerabilities, and a month later IE was no longer on their list of recommended browsers
19:19:39 <kimmo> yeah
19:20:04 <kimmo> most are amazed that you can simply install stuff by opening a window and telling it to install software X
19:21:12 <simon_> I have some limited technical appreciation of why nix is better, but it was politics that made me try it and stability that kept me with it
19:22:40 <kimmo> it was the ease of use that kept me aboard
19:23:24 <kimmo> granted, it was 1990, and windows was still the thing that you first booted to DOS, and then ran "win"
19:23:27 <kimmo> heh
19:23:56 <kimmo> these days, I prefer the stability and the ability to have total control
19:24:08 <kimmo> and still, ease of use
19:24:23 <simon_> seems to me that win wants to hide the inner workings from you, and tries (fails) to be so simple it's idiot proof. But if you're not an idiot....
19:24:37 <kimmo> that's what it does best
19:24:53 <simon_> yeah control, I enjoy my limited commandline use
19:27:06 <kimmo> hey, whereabouts in london you at?
19:27:40 <simon_> the a**e end...
19:27:47 <simon_> Camden at the moment
19:28:26 <kimmo> what's the irish bar on maiden lane?
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19:29:05 <simon_> it's a big place... I'd have to ask the magic box, same as you
19:29:19 <simon_> haven't even heard of maiden lane
19:29:50 <kimmo> ah the porterhouse
19:31:35 <kimmo> it's like 600 yadrs south from the camden road on york way
19:32:23 <kimmo> made a total ass of myself there in november...
19:32:36 <simon_> near King's Cross.... it would have to be special to get me down there....
19:32:48 <simon_> Yep, I heard about it lol
19:33:04 <kimmo> hoho
19:33:19 <kimmo> their beer selection is great
19:33:29 <kimmo> my mistake was asking for something local
19:33:30 <kimmo> hehe
19:34:52 <simon_> Ever been to Belgium? beer lovers paradise
19:35:07 <kimmo> a few times yeah
19:35:38 <simon_> gotta sleep soon - you say you're a kinda reports specialist?
19:36:51 <kimmo> a friend of mine used to work for SITA, more than a few times his connection from amsterdam or brussels was booked full, had to just have a few beers and head back
19:37:22 <kimmo> not really a specialist, but that's my main thingy in complaining of lacking features ;)
19:37:32 <simon_> it seems to me (no expert of course) that the basic prog is rock solid (usually) and the thing s stopping it going bigtime are 1) multi user and 2) reporting
19:38:03 <simon_> you know scheme?
19:38:32 <kimmo> most of my main complaints about reporting have already been fixed in the devel series, or have to do with the missing "cost center" functionality
19:38:42 <kimmo> yeah, I'll have to admit to knowing scheme
19:40:02 <simon_> can "anything" be done with scheme? can't cost centres be simulated with account hierarchy?
19:42:10 <kimmo> well I have a workaround at the moment
19:43:41 <simon_> whats dev priority, getting it into corporate world or to the masses?
19:43:42 <kimmo> most anything can be done with scheme and guile, but it's still quite a bit of work
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19:43:58 <kimmo> no idea, warlord is a better person to answer that, or jsled
19:46:20 <simon_> well, many thanks to those guys - like many, quicken was the last thing stopping me zapping windows partition, and gnucash was the key
19:47:16 <kimmo> quicken *shiver*
19:47:35 <simon_> and thanks to you for trying to figure my problem, and for the chat
19:47:36 <simon_> lol
19:47:47 <simon_> WITCH!
19:47:50 <kimmo> I'm a certified quicken basic 2000 user. I've never seen even a screenshot of that
19:47:58 <simon_> I know better now
19:49:29 <simon_> I'll let you know if I figure anything out about my trans not visible in register but visible in report
19:49:54 <kimmo> ok cool
19:49:57 <kimmo> gotta go to bed now
19:50:16 <simon_> likewise. Thanks again and g'night mate
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21:38:22 <sfalanga> If I'm reselling an item what account should I put it under on the invoice. Choices are assets, income and liabilities. It's a "material" which I'm reselling for a profit.
21:39:25 <sfalanga> Should I put it under income:business income and then split it out from within that account?
21:47:30 <Askarii> uh
21:47:40 <Askarii> your "income" account should be split into various accounts
21:47:48 <Askarii> depending on the source of the income
21:48:14 <Askarii> for example I have services, hardware, software etc for a computer service company
21:49:10 <sfalanga> So I should "unpost" the invoice and redo the invoice with appropriate income/expense sub-accounts?
21:49:19 <Askarii> yes
21:50:25 <sfalanga> I will try that. Thank you for the assist Askarii. I'm on the East Coast of USA - G'night. :)
21:51:04 <Askarii> same 4 me
21:51:07 <Askarii> c y
21:51:09 <Askarii> a
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