2010-05-06 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:15:27 <jpod> goodlord...
03:15:50 <jpod> took me forever to get here. but i'm determined.
03:16:15 <jpod> to understand why gnucash is as confusing and counter-intuitive as i am finding it to be.
03:16:48 <jpod> soooo…if someone is willing to explain some things to me then i'd be pretty appreciative.
03:17:18 <jpod> guess y'all are sleepin
03:18:02 <jpod> well i spoze i'll have to just try to explain my problems then and hope it makes sense.
03:18:06 <kimmo> most people here are on east coast
03:18:37 <kimmo> I can try explaining, if you'd just ask the question
03:19:30 <jpod> firstly, i'm trying to setup a basic income account but it seems there's no way to enter income without it having to debit another existing account. this confuses me since when i get paid, it's purely money in.
03:20:13 <kimmo> indeed, but it's basic accounting
03:20:24 <jpod> fair enough...
03:20:34 <jpod> so i assumed this was necessary and continued
03:20:42 <kimmo> you have an Asset account, into which the money pours. The counterbalance account is the Income account
03:21:33 <jpod> hmmm….seems i have to adopt your system of basic accounts setup if this is going to work.
03:21:47 <jpod> all i really want is an account with income and expenses
03:22:29 <kimmo> in every entry, you have two (Or more, if you like the granularity) accounts working; One account is where the actual money is deposited or taken from, and the other account keeps track of where it came from, or what it was used for
03:22:35 <jpod> or rather, several independent accounts each with their own income and expenses.
03:23:17 <kimmo> like for example, if you get $50 from a job you did, you have a transaction that increases your Income account by $50, and that $50 is deposited to Cash account
03:26:16 <jpod> another thing that boggles my mind is that i have my income account all setup, and then when i create an expense transaction and link it to my income via the transfer column it adds to the income instead of subtracting.
03:26:48 <jpod> obviously i'm not using the accounts correctly but it really shouldn't have to be so complex for such a basic problem
03:27:45 <kimmo> well the thing is, you shouldn't really make transfers from income to expense
03:28:06 <jpod> but it forces me to transfer from somewhere
03:28:17 <kimmo> indeed, and that somewhere should be your cash account
03:28:41 <kimmo> or checking account, or wherever you keep your money
03:28:56 <jpod> so please - what's the basic minimum number and types of accounts?
03:29:35 <jpod> p.s. i read the help docs without much understanding of how this is supposed to be used.
03:29:48 <kimmo> the normal bare minimum is 5 accounts
03:30:05 <kimmo> one of each of Expenses, Income, Assets, Liabilities, and Equity
03:30:39 <kimmo> for basic personal finance, the Equity account is only used to balance out the initial status, ie. it holds your net worth at the start
03:31:24 <jpod> ok but i don't want to bother with that
03:31:55 <jpod> i only need to track day-to-day payments and income
03:32:31 <jpod> assets - this is like the source from where money comes?
03:32:50 <jpod> and so it should constantly be going negative?
03:33:00 <kimmo> assets is the type of accounts which contains for example "Cash at hand", "bank accounts"
03:33:10 <kimmo> they should be constantly positive in normal circumstances
03:33:30 <jpod> but, as we discussed, money comes from employers…where does that negative show?
03:33:40 <kimmo> it's not negative
03:34:06 <jpod> when i entered in paycheques, gnucash created this automatic account called imbalance
03:34:31 <kimmo> yeah it does that, as all transactions have to have equal amounts on both sides
03:34:49 <jpod> where does the imbalance belong?
03:34:53 <kimmo> the thing is, asset accounts and income accounts are reversed.
03:35:17 <kimmo> there should not be an imbalance account, it's merely automatically created as the sides _must_ even out
03:35:54 <jpod> so it shouldn't be there but it must?
03:35:59 <jpod> i cannot accept that.
03:36:21 <kimmo> the imbalance account indicates that you made an error in entry
03:36:36 <jpod> …great. what error?
03:37:41 <jpod> you know a sample account would probably help a lot - because it is not at all obvious what i'm supposed to do.
03:37:45 <kimmo> that you did not have equal sums on both sides
03:37:59 <kimmo> lemme create you something
03:38:08 <jpod> please
03:38:28 <jpod> i still don't understand what the other side is....assets?
03:45:38 <kimmo> http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~krhovi/sample.gnc
03:45:55 <jpod> thanks!
03:45:59 <kimmo> that's about the bare minimum
03:45:59 <jpod> i'll check
03:46:29 <kimmo> and as you see, setting it up didn't really take that long to be a bother ;)
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04:23:37 <fell> @tell warlord The last mornings 204.107.200.65 was temporary offline and my complains were not logged.
04:23:37 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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09:14:07 <fell> gjanssens: I am wondering, if /po/POTFILES.in shouldn't be in .gitignore.
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09:14:25 <warlord> jsled, linas_ : op gncbot, please?
09:14:25 <gncbot> warlord: Sent 4 hours and 50 minutes ago: <fell> The last mornings 204.107.200.65 was temporary offline and my complains were not logged.
09:14:35 *** jsled sets mode: +o gncbot
09:14:40 <warlord> @op
09:14:40 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
09:15:12 <warlord> fell: Yes, ComCrap seems to be dropping my packets for ~30m every morning. Exactly when seems to shift around.
09:16:06 <gjanssens> @op
09:16:06 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
09:16:20 <fell> gjanssens: It is created/modified by make and now git complains unsaved modifications.
09:18:34 <warlord> fell: Funny you should mention that. We've gone back and forth a lot about whether POTFILES.in should be generated or saved in svn.. It's been both ways a few times. I believe it is the current way due to some restrictions at some automatic translation tool website
09:20:19 <gjanssens> fell: I see it's currently ignored by svn, so probably it should be ignored by git as well. But I don't use git for GnuCash, so I wouldn't know where to add this.
09:22:47 <fell> warlord: Today it was much longer. What I see is the following: 10:11 gncbot comes back, 10:51 leaves, 11:06 comes, 11:17 leaves, 13:44 comes.
09:23:57 <fell> gjanssens: trunk/.gitignore
09:24:29 <warlord> Yeha, I do see a long outage from about 5am-7:30am EDT
09:24:37 <warlord> *yeah*
09:26:11 <fell> oops, it is in .gitignore. (???)
09:26:44 <gjanssens> fell: I wanted to mention that... ;)
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10:45:59 <gjanssens> warlord: I'm looking into the list search issue mentioned on the devel-list by Tao Wang
10:46:23 <gjanssens> issue is: if you choose italian, the search page loses its layout
10:46:31 <gjanssens> same with english and chinese
10:47:10 <gjanssens> I think this is caused by some configuration settings in namazu itself, but those aren't accessible to me
10:47:26 <gjanssens> do you have access to them ?
10:47:50 <warlord> Yeah, if you tell me what I'm looking for.
10:48:09 <warlord> Frankly, I'd love to switch over to a google-based search which I think would do a better job than namazu
10:48:22 <gjanssens> well, I wonder if there's differences in that config file for the languages that do work and those that don't
10:48:39 * gjanssens is all for replacing namazu by the way...
10:49:08 <gjanssens> do you know of google based web apps ?
10:49:15 <gjanssens> I mean for list searching
10:49:42 <warlord> Not offhand, no :(
10:49:57 <gjanssens> Neither do I :(
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10:50:55 <gjanssens> For namazu, I suspect there are some language specific definitions somewhere
10:51:06 <warlord> So which files? /home/nmz is based out of SVN.
10:51:20 <gjanssens> ???
10:51:27 <gjanssens> I only find the templates in svn
10:51:37 <gjanssens> and a wrapper script
10:52:02 <gjanssens> the cgi app itself is not in svn unless I'm looking in the wrong place
10:53:58 <warlord> Well, /home/nmz is generated from htdocs
10:54:06 <warlord> ... including the templates
10:54:32 <warlord> The cgi app itself is just the namazu program itself. It has no local changes to it.
10:54:42 <gjanssens> Ok, but the config file I'm looking for is not there
10:55:02 <gjanssens> namazu comes with a config file named namazurc somewhere
10:55:39 <gjanssens> The sample rc file that comes with the namazu source package has some language dependent settings in it
10:57:14 <warlord> It's been so long since I've set this up, I don't really recall what I'm looking for.
10:58:21 <warlord> Ah, found the namazurc
10:59:02 <gjanssens> Could you send it to me off-list ? Then I'll spend some time to figure it out
10:59:06 <warlord> It sets Index, Template, a couple of Replace rules, and that's it. Everything else is commented out.
10:59:18 <gjanssens> Ok bad thing then
10:59:31 <gjanssens> In what directory was it located ?
10:59:33 <gjanssens> conf ?
10:59:36 <warlord> /etc/namazu
11:01:10 <gjanssens> Hmm, I'll have to hunt further then...
11:01:27 <warlord> Do you still want the file?
11:01:46 <gjanssens> yes, send it anyway
11:02:05 <gjanssens> Then I can compare with the pristine source version
11:02:18 <gjanssens> adrres is janssens-geert@telenet.be
11:02:56 <warlord> sent
11:03:03 <gjanssens> tx
11:03:20 <warlord> NP
11:06:13 <fell> BTW, probably related: https://lists.gnucash.org/search/de/ has a header with ...
11:07:30 <fell> content="text/html; charset=UTF-8", but umlauts seems presented wrong, e.g. ü as ü.
11:07:44 <warlord> Well, some of the data is ISO
11:08:37 <warlord> The old mail archives are in ISO..
11:08:54 <fell> After changeing the browser from auto to UTF-8, they appear correct.
11:09:26 <gjanssens> This is because I changed the general header to have UTF-8, saw it didn't work ok for the lists, but didn't have time to fix it properly
11:09:47 <gjanssens> I'll do so later on
11:10:16 <warlord> The list archives are probably a mix of utf8 and iso
11:11:30 <gjanssens> Then there isn't a good solution I suppose, other than a manual attempt to convert the old archives to UTF-8 ?
11:13:11 <warlord> That's probably what we'd have to do...
11:14:46 <fell> Strange, also the sidebar is changing: Programmgröße instead of Programmgröße.
11:16:24 <gjanssens> I suspect this is namazu mangling the character encodings. I believe it only does iso, not utf-8
11:16:50 <gjanssens> So I'd better revert my change anyway, unless I can convince namazu to use utf8
11:20:12 <warlord> Like I said, i think we'd be better off switching to a different search engine.
11:20:58 <fell> search/index.html: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
11:23:15 <gjanssens> fell: that file is not accessed normally, only if you explicitly try to by surfing to ..../search/index.html
11:23:30 <gjanssens> search is a cgi directory
11:28:27 <warlord> gjanssens: /var/www/html/search is an actual directory.
11:31:32 <gjanssens> Weird... then how is namazu started ? Does the directory have a non-standard default handler then ?
11:31:47 <gjanssens> The file index.html that is in svn definitely won't start namazu
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11:34:05 <warlord> Ah, you are right. /var/www/html/search is the old php-based search scripts. Then we moved to namazu which uses a scriptalias, which hides the read dir
11:34:08 <warlord> *real*
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11:43:17 <fell> from http://www.namazu.org/doc/manual.html.en#namazurc
11:43:24 <fell> The setting details are given as comments in namazurc-sample.
11:46:38 <warlord> gjanssens: also note that your change to namazu-cgi.sh didn't get installed automatically
11:49:55 <gjanssens> warlord: thanks for mentioning. I'm not sure this change would fix anything but I wanted to try.
11:50:07 <warlord> The trailing slash was necessary.
11:50:19 <warlord> (I think)
11:50:29 <warlord> I can try putting in your change if you want me to
11:50:38 <gjanssens> I wanted to ask that yes
11:51:45 <warlord> Done
11:52:53 <gjanssens> Thanks, but it doesn't seem to make any change
11:54:10 <gjanssens> The link fell passed on also mentions a .namazurc file in the cgi directory (that is where namazu is installed)
11:54:17 <gjanssens> Do you have that on your system ?
11:55:12 <gjanssens> warlord: a totally unrelated issue I'm currently looking at
11:55:22 <gjanssens> search for invoice or bill
11:55:45 <gjanssens> when I remove all the search terms and hit Find
11:56:08 <gjanssens> gnucash ignores the preset query terms
11:56:30 <gjanssens> you wouldn't usually notice this, but with my commit from a couple of minutes ago,
11:56:54 <gjanssens> suddenly you get all bill, invoice AND vouchers, instead of only one type
11:57:10 * gjanssens checks something more, hang on a sec...
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11:57:22 <warlord> Internally they are all of type GncInvoice. The only differentiator is the Owner Type
11:58:04 <warlord> But the search doesn't differentiate that at all.. The owner type passed in is really more for creating new ones.
11:58:14 <gjanssens> Yes, checking for owner type (invoice type actually) is the change I just committed
11:58:16 <warlord> There is no .namazurc that I can find.
11:58:50 <gjanssens> it works very nicely, except when you explicitely remove the search terms in the search window
11:59:18 <gjanssens> this is a bug, it also happens when you are looking at the invoices of one particular customer for example
11:59:41 <gjanssens> I traced it back to qof_query_merge
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12:01:01 <gjanssens> (hmm, at least I thought)
12:01:34 <gjanssens> Nevermind, I'll look a bit deeper first, I'm not sure where it goes wrong yet...
12:04:07 <warlord> I'm not sure your patch is correct,but I can't put my finger on why it looks wrong.
12:04:46 <gjanssens> Oh, this time it's not my patch itself. It just uncovered a bug that was there already.
12:04:50 <gjanssens> But I think I've found it
12:05:16 <gjanssens> At some point this code path enters qof_query_merge with two queries
12:05:27 <gjanssens> The first one has terms, the second one doesn't
12:05:39 <gjanssens> And the merge operator is and
12:05:50 <gjanssens> This situation is not covered properly
12:06:19 <gjanssens> Only when the first query has no terms, this is covered.
12:06:30 <gjanssens> I'll commit a patch after I tested it.
12:09:34 <gjanssens> The question I wanted to ask here is actually: does it make sense to merge two queries if one has no terms ?
12:09:56 <gjanssens> I see the books are merged as well, but I can't imagine a use case for that
12:10:07 <gjanssens> Can we have two different books in one query ?
12:12:21 <warlord> theoretically.
12:23:27 <gjanssens> Thanks, I'll leave this possibility in then.
12:23:53 <gjanssens> The bug is now fixed in r19130
12:30:43 <warlord> ok.
12:34:30 <warlord> I wonder if this also fixes issue 357696 ?
13:01:12 <gjanssens> warlord: I don't know
13:01:33 <gjanssens> I can't seem to make the chargeback functionality work at all
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13:02:30 <gjanssens> I also tried with an earlier revision (r19098), before my commits, but couldn't do chargeback there either
13:02:38 <gjanssens> How is it supposed to work ?
13:03:14 <gjanssens> Btw I followed the steps in bug #357696
13:03:58 <gjanssens> The billable items don't show up in step 5
13:04:11 <warlord> Are you sure the items were marked billable?
13:04:31 <gjanssens> Probably not. How do I do that ?
13:04:50 * gjanssens has never used chargeback before...
13:05:13 <warlord> You need to specify the chargeback customer, and you need to mark the line-item as billable.
13:05:44 <gjanssens> Ok, I didn't see that second part. Let me recheck...
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13:10:08 <gjanssens> Nope, not fixed.
13:10:13 <warlord> dammit.
13:10:20 <gjanssens> :(
13:10:40 <warlord> I was hoping it was a query merge problem... Because I can't see anything wrong with the logic of the query.
13:11:01 <warlord> .... unless one of the qof params changed and isn't matching where it should
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13:20:07 <CaMason> Ahh, this is more populated. Thanks jsled
13:20:52 <CaMason> I'm just doing a uk VAT return, so I need to get some totals for certain periods. What's the best way to do this?
13:22:09 <CaMason> I'm thinking an income statement for the 3 month period I need
13:28:29 <warlord> CaMason: that would probably be appropriate..
13:31:50 <CaMason> sweet, this report gives me exactly what I need :)
13:35:34 <warlord> :-D
13:35:36 <warlord> Happy to help
13:36:29 <CaMason> cheers :)
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13:46:26 <warlord> @nick gncbot
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18:10:44 <webroasters> hey guys
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18:35:13 <warlord> hiya
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18:36:21 <warlord> BIAB
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20:25:53 <intangir> how do i remove just 1 line of a split transaction
20:26:08 <intangir> it added a line saying imbalance-usd, shows nothing in either column though
20:26:18 <intangir> but when i check it in the imbalance-usd register it shows -200...
20:27:11 <jsled> intangir: you don't remove the line … you assign the imbalance-usd line to the appropriate account.
20:27:37 <jsled> The core of double-entry is that you have a set of 2 or more Splits that sum to zero in a Transaction.
20:28:11 <intangir> its not showing a value next to it though
20:28:40 <jsled> which account's register do you have open
20:28:41 <jsled> ?
20:29:09 <jsled> regardless: if you blank out all the cells in a split, then "tab off" the end, the split should disappear.
20:29:54 <intangir> ok
20:30:26 <intangir> ya that worked
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21:33:44 <webroasters> hey guys, quick question. If I have a partner that had (let's say) 400$ in his Equity Account, and we decided to part ways.. He decided that he didn't want the 400 back from the business, but I'm trying to zero him out. What account do I put +400 in, while I-400 from the equity account??
21:33:59 <webroasters> Accounts payable?
21:35:04 <warlord> I think you might need to ask an accountant.....
21:35:10 <webroasters> lol yeah
21:35:20 <warlord> If the money is sitting in equity....
21:35:23 <webroasters> it's not accounts payable
21:35:49 <webroasters> and I dont (well the business doesn't) want to pay it back, but i need to zero him out
21:36:08 <warlord> why do you need to zero him out?
21:36:15 <warlord> Technically it's still his.
21:36:40 <webroasters> because I don't want the account to always say 400. i'm paying him through another venture that we're doing
21:36:56 <webroasters> I just want it to zero out, so that I can consolidate the account
21:38:32 <warlord> I'm not sure where to move it to. Maybe to your own equity?
21:38:59 <webroasters> maybe receivables?
21:39:14 <warlord> It's not a receivable. You're not expecting to be paid.
21:39:30 <webroasters> yeah, but it's basically money for the company that doesn't have to be paid back
21:39:58 <warlord> Then move it into your own equity
21:40:13 <webroasters> ok, that's sounds right
21:45:54 <webroasters> yeah, you guys are right
21:45:55 <webroasters> thanks
21:46:01 <webroasters> ill see ya'll later
21:46:32 <warlord> later
21:47:04 <webroasters> what can a guy thats not doing dev work on Gnucash do to help you guys out>
21:47:05 <webroasters> ?
21:47:30 <warlord> Docs? Testing? Bug Triage / Reproduction? Answering user questions?
21:47:30 <webroasters> brb
21:47:44 <webroasters> ok sounds fun. I'll be back on tomorrow
21:48:14 <webroasters> i am bilingual (Spanish). Has it been translated?
21:48:22 <webroasters> into spanish that is
21:49:37 <webroasters> brb
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21:54:42 <webroasters> where would i go to find out about the language issue?
21:55:19 <warlord> What do you mean by "the language issue"?
21:59:10 <webroasters> uh, i wanted to translate, if I could, gnucash into spanish, unless gnucash already has a spanish version
22:00:04 <warlord> It does.
22:00:11 <warlord> I dont know how complete the translation is.
22:00:20 <warlord> Check the wiki?
22:00:25 <webroasters> ok
22:00:28 <webroasters> i will. night guys
22:00:33 <webroasters> thanks
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