2010-04-27 GnuCash IRC logs

00:01:02 <warlord> linas, can you op gncbot please?
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10:21:03 <mr_wibble> Hey I'm a Money Manager EX user who is wanting to migrate to GNU Cash. Is there an easy or not too hard method for importing my Money Manager EX records database?
10:24:26 <mr_wibble> Also is there an introductory guide to GNUCash that anyone can recommend?
10:24:56 <DavidWhite_> mr_wibble: There's a lot of documentation on the website
10:25:38 <DavidWhite_> http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide
10:27:51 <mr_wibble> Looks like I need to improve my understanding of basic accounting before attempting this migration, still is their any known method for transferring from MMEX to GNUCash? MMEX uses an MMB file database and can export to CSV.
10:28:15 <warlord> mr_wibble: take the CSV and convert it to QIF
10:29:09 <mr_wibble> How so? Changing the extension or processing through a third app?
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10:31:18 <warlord> the latter
10:31:35 <warlord> (I did say "convert", not "rename")
10:34:24 <mr_wibble> Ok then thanks for the help DavidWhite_ and warlord :) I'll brush up on accounting and GNUCash documentation then have a go. Thanks :)
10:34:42 <warlord> Good Luck!
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10:40:14 <gjanssens> @op warlord
10:40:14 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
10:40:32 <gjanssens> @op jsled
10:40:32 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jsled
10:40:35 <warlord> Ah, thank you.
10:40:46 <gjanssens> you're welcome
10:40:57 <warlord> I didn't even notice that linas had op'ed gncbot
10:41:41 <gjanssens> Question on qof_log_init_filename
10:42:54 <warlord> ok..
10:45:47 <gjanssens> (sorry got a phone call)
10:46:01 <gjanssens> this function creates a temporary file
10:46:15 <gjanssens> with 6 random characters added to the proposed file.
10:46:26 <gjanssens> makes sense, to ensure a unique filename
10:46:41 <gjanssens> but then it renames the file back to standard gnucash.trace
10:46:54 <gjanssens> doesn't that defeat the original idea of having a unique filename ?
10:47:38 <gjanssens> When I have two instances of GC open, (a less common scenario for most users I agree)
10:48:04 <gjanssens> only one gnucash instance can write to the logfile. The log messages from the other instance simply go lost
10:49:16 <warlord> It's to prevent an attacker from getting gnucash to overwrite any file.. An attacker could create a symlink /tmp/gnucash.trace -> /home/<user>/{pick-an-important-file} and if we just did open(/tmp/gnucash.trace) then it would overwrite that file.
10:49:37 <warlord> So the tmpname(); rename(); trick is to prevent that attack.
10:50:11 <warlord> If you're really interested in two instances of GC being open, then either: 1) we should switch to syslog, or 2) you should comment out the rename()
10:51:42 <gjanssens> The attack vector never occured to me... interesting.
10:52:17 <gjanssens> I got curious to this function because the rename doesn't work on Windows anyway
10:52:25 <gjanssens> You can't rename an open file on windows
10:57:32 <warlord> Yeah, well that's the safer route.
10:57:58 <warlord> I'd rather the rename() fail than overwrite a random file controlled by someone else.
10:58:22 <gjanssens> Indeed.
10:58:48 <gjanssens> Thinking on this, the rename detour doesn't protect agaist the attack.
10:59:16 <gjanssens> If the important file is writeable, rename will just override it.
11:00:22 <gjanssens> So if that's the sole reason to call rename, we can just as well skip it
11:01:06 <warlord> Nope, rename wont rename through a symlink
11:01:47 <gjanssens> That's right.
11:01:55 <warlord> if you have /tmp/foo -> bar create /tmp/quux with some data, then rename /tmp/quux /tmp/foo, it will NOT overwrite /tmp/bar
11:02:16 <warlord> It will just remove the symlink and put the file in its place
11:03:09 <gjanssens> If the attacker on the other hand sets alias gnucash='gnucash --logto <some-important-file>' you get the same effect
11:03:31 <gjanssens> I think the rename remains potentially unsafe
11:04:13 <warlord> True, but that's less likely -- that would require an attacker to have root privs (or privs AS the user). Right now the attacker only needs write access to /tmp (which means anyone can do it)
11:04:49 <gjanssens> Indeed, that's fair.
11:05:18 <warlord> And if they already have root privs or privs as the gnucash user they could already do so much more.
11:06:16 * gjanssens finds it very useful to think aloud on security issues... :)
11:06:23 <warlord> ok
11:07:46 <gjanssens> So, agreed, rename is a useful protection against malicious users that can access /tmp
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11:09:15 <gjanssens> Rename can also stay as far as I'm concerned in the case of two open gnucash instances.
11:09:34 <gjanssens> If I really need logging from both instances at the same time, I can use --logto
11:09:47 <warlord> * nods *
11:10:04 <gjanssens> I would like to propose one change though to simplify debugging on Windows
11:10:27 <gjanssens> the current trace files end in 6-character randomness
11:10:51 <gjanssens> There's no text editor on Windows that knows this extension, which means
11:11:20 <gjanssens> if you double click the trace file in Windows, you always have to go through the "select application to open..." ritual
11:11:32 <warlord> You want to add .txt ?
11:11:38 <gjanssens> If we could have the file end in .XXXXXX.log that would be helpful
11:11:48 <warlord> That's fine.
11:12:43 <gjanssens> The alternative would be to add additional code that first closes the file descriptor opened by mkstemp and then reopen it
11:12:51 <gjanssens> after the rename
11:13:02 <gjanssens> That would result in consistent file names on all platforms.
11:13:14 <gjanssens> Which is also nice
11:13:31 <gjanssens> s/nice/be nice/
11:13:51 <gjanssens> s, s/nice/be nice/,, ;)
11:15:39 <warlord> You can change the mktemp call to add .txt or .log. No problem.
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11:31:49 <gjanssens> Ok, done
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12:38:13 <warlord> gjanssens: regarding #616696 -- I'm not sure the patch is correct. There are potentially two places where there are version #s used, and the patch as-is doesn't compute one from the other.
12:38:27 <warlord> For example, how can you tell from @VERSION@ that 2.2 is the latest stable?
12:41:03 <gjanssens> Hmm, you're right, I'll have a better look
12:43:49 <warlord> (I didn't respond to your commit -- but I can respond in email if you prefer)
12:44:53 <gjanssens> No need. I am looking at it already.
12:45:13 <warlord> ok
12:47:28 <gjanssens> I don't see an obvious way to find out the current latest stable version number.
12:47:41 <gjanssens> gnucash-bin.c has that number hard-coded.
12:48:11 <gjanssens> I'd propose to add an additional subtitution variable in configure.in: GNUCASH_LATEST_STABLE_VERSION
12:48:40 <gjanssens> and use this one in gnucash-bin.c and the tip-of-the-day list.
12:49:36 <gjanssens> This means tracking that number both on the stable branch as on trunk each time a new stable release comes out.
12:50:26 <gjanssens> Not really ideal, but the best I can come up with so far.
12:53:35 <warlord> Me, I would've just closed the bug as WONTFIX
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12:54:04 <warlord> Yeah, that makes sense, the GNUCASH_LATEST_STABLE_VERSION
12:54:32 <warlord> But yes, you do need to track it in multiple branches.
12:56:16 <gjanssens> I could alternatively write a small script to get the version from svn.gnucash.org. The information is there
12:56:53 <gjanssens> But I'm not really sure it's a good idea to depend on a network connection simple to run autogen.sh
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13:12:06 <warlord> Nah, I'd just hard code it. We should just document all the places we need to adjust the number when we make a release. We already have to manually adjust configure, readme, website, ...
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13:46:10 <zanberdo> I've been using gnucash for a few years now but admittedly I'm no accountant. I've recently bought a new car and I'm struggling to figure out the best way to set up the accounts. I know I have an asset (the car) and a loan. I'm just not clear how to configure the two correctly and would appreciate any help anyone would care to offer
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13:48:01 <zanberdo> I've also got a house and a mortgage, which I did set up but I'm not convinced I've done it correctly as I have several thousand dollars allocated to Imbalance-USD...
13:48:20 <zanberdo> any help would be appreciated. :)
13:50:27 <zanberdo> so first question: when setting up an asset such as the car (or the house) should the asset be a positive value or a negative value? My gut says the asset is a positive value and I've setup the accounts as such
14:00:15 <warlord> zanberdo: it would be a split transaction from L:Loan and A:Cash -> A:Car
14:00:34 <warlord> zanberdo: the Imbalance implies you didn't set up the transfer accounts correctly.
14:01:11 <warlord> If you already have the car/house then it should be a positive asset. If you're buying it, then it should be 0 and then you create value by transfering it from somewhere else (e.g. a Bank or Loan)
14:04:50 <zanberdo> warlord, thank you for your reply. I'm sure I've set things up incorrectly and I'm trying to straighten them out now and do appreciate your help. I may be a bit thick though, so if you have a few moments, I'd like to ask a few more questions if you don't mind
14:06:13 <zanberdo> Since I'm just now setting up the auto loan, this would be a great place for me to start. So if I understand things correctly, I should start by creating a new fixed asset for the car which should start with an opening balance as a positive value equal to the value of the car, is that correct?
14:07:49 <zanberdo> so in my case, I bought an '08 Prius valued at $19,200.00 (blue book) which has nothing to do (yet) with the amount of the loan. So the asset should start as an increase of 19,200, is that correct?
14:08:35 <warlord> No
14:08:40 <warlord> The asset should start with 0
14:08:55 <zanberdo> oh
14:08:56 <warlord> It should *end* with 19,200 (assuming that's how much you spent for the car)
14:10:11 <zanberdo> ok, so I've created an asset with no opening balance (0) for the car. Now I've got a loan against the car which I'm assuming I'd create as a loan and it should have an opening balance equal to the loan amount, is that correct?
14:12:16 <warlord> Nope.
14:12:23 <warlord> Again, opening balance is 0
14:12:33 <warlord> Then you "create" the loan by transfering the loan to the car
14:12:37 <zanberdo> yikes, I'm doing this all wrong...
14:12:55 <warlord> You should ONLY create an opening balance when you start.
14:13:01 <warlord> From then on, you should never touch Equity
14:13:22 <warlord> You said you've been using it for years, so that means you're not creating a new set of books from scratch.
14:13:36 <warlord> ... so you should never set opening balances. You should /create/ balances through transfers
14:13:59 <warlord> You didn't suddenly have a loan for 18,000.. You bought a car and with the car came the loan.
14:14:06 <zanberdo> yes, I have been using it for years, but very likely wrongly, as all my accounts have an opening balance of one sort of another.
14:14:07 <warlord> Hense.. transfer Loan -> Car
14:14:36 <zanberdo> yes, that makes sense, but it seems that by setting the asset to 0 that the car has no value, which doesn't make a lot of sense (to me, the layman)
14:14:54 <warlord> You create value by transfering in.
14:15:14 <zanberdo> which is why I'd (mistakenly) assumed that all assets have an opening value, such as a car (blue blue) or home (appraisal) which the loan is written against
14:15:15 <warlord> So you'd credit Loan for $18,000, credit Cash for $1,920, and then debit Car for $19,200
14:15:35 <warlord> And voila, your car now has value.
14:15:43 <warlord> ... whatever it is you paid for it.
14:16:19 <zanberdo> so the actual value of the car is not the blue book value but the combined value of the loan and any cash payments I've made?
14:16:38 <zanberdo> I think I've completely bolluxed my books...
14:17:08 <warlord> How much did you pay for the car?
14:17:59 <zanberdo> I have a loan for 15,260.85 and I paid 3666 out of pocket
14:18:37 <zanberdo> the 3666 came from a money market account I have set up
14:18:44 <zanberdo> the loan of course came from the bank
14:19:06 <zanberdo> which is what I'm trying to set up now. So, the fixed asset should be 0 from what your saying, yes?
14:19:36 <zanberdo> and the loan should open at 0, but should reflect the 3666 transfered from the money market and the 15260.85 from where?
14:19:41 <zanberdo> that's what confuses me.
14:19:44 <warlord> Please.. ignore "starting balance"
14:19:48 <zanberdo> ok
14:19:57 <warlord> Create the Loan and Car accounts.
14:20:11 <zanberdo> doing it now
14:20:53 <warlord> Then create a split transaction where you credit the loan 15,260.85, credit your money market 3666, and then debit the car the total you paid: 18,926.85
14:25:43 <zanberdo> ok, I think that makes sense. The default for the split was to allocate the 18926.85 to Imbalance-USD but I changed that to Car and now the Car asset reflects the 18926.85... I guess that's correct. :)
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14:26:55 <warlord> Yep! That Imabalance-USD implies you didn't assign an account.
14:28:15 <zanberdo> ok, so then I could go back to my House asset, delete the opening balance entry which I credited as the value of the home and ensure that the loans written again the house are credited against the house asset (just as I've done with the car)...
14:28:26 <zanberdo> in the end, I ought to have a 0 Imbalanced-USD category
14:30:27 <warlord> Correct.
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14:40:59 <zanberdo> ok, I'm going to give it a go and see if I can manage to not complete fubar my books!
14:42:06 <warlord> ok
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14:51:21 <adabo> How do you move all the transactions from one expense account to another?
14:51:51 <adabo> faster than one by one ;)
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14:53:46 <warlord> adabo: make the old account a subaccount of the new one and then delete the account. It will ask you if you want to move the transactions. Say yes.
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14:54:43 <zanberdo_> sorry, my network bounced, not sure if I posted this or not (forgive if duplicate)
14:54:52 <zanberdo_> warlord, just to be sure, in the end, the asset account should reflect the total value (that is the principal paid) of the car which will be a slowly growing positive value and the loan should be the total of the loan minus payments (principal) as payments are made, making it a slowly decreasing negative value, does that sound correct
14:54:59 <zanberdo_> grr... hope I'm not flooding channel
14:57:01 <adabo> warlord: Thanks :) Delete is NOT the first idea that came to mind
14:57:22 <warlord> zanberdo: not quite. The asset will not increase value over time.
14:57:40 <warlord> As you pay down the loan it's purely Cash -> Loan (+ Interest). The Interest is an expense.
14:57:45 <zanberdo_> warlord, right, sorry, that's what I thought I wrote, but I might have been incorrect
14:58:24 <zanberdo_> oops, just re-read what you said. ok, so the asset *won't* grow over time... hmmm...
14:58:48 <zanberdo_> so it should remain at whatever I paid for it in cash? in my case $3,666 indefinitely?
14:59:14 <zanberdo_> I'm sorry if I'm asking a bunch of accounting related questions - I do appreciate your help! :)
14:59:17 <warlord> No...... PLease go re-read what I wrote about the initial "funding" transaction.
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15:05:37 <warlord> zanberdo_: you even said it correctly back to me at 14:25:
15:05:39 <warlord> <zanberdo> ok, I think that makes sense. The default for the split was to allocate the 18926.85 to Imbalance-USD but I changed that to Car and now the Car asset reflects the 18926.85... I guess that's correct. :)
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15:06:02 <warlord> So, Assets:Car should be 18926.85
15:06:07 <warlord> .. and never change.
15:06:20 <warlord> (well, until you apply depreciation, but that's a different topic for a different day)
15:06:35 <zanberdo> warlord, sorry, my office network had interruptions, please forgive me if I cover some of the same issues covered in the last few minutes.
15:07:35 <warlord> zanberdo: please go read the logs to see what you missed.
15:07:42 <zanberdo> yes, doing so now
15:08:16 <zanberdo> unfortunately I was disconnected for a bit. the last message I got from you was: So, Assets:Car should be 18926.85 (and those that followed). Not sure what you wrote before that
15:08:35 <warlord> zanberdo: please go read the logs. http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/
15:08:36 <jsled> zanberdo: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2010/04/2010-04-27.html
15:10:07 <kimmo> warlord, am I correct in assuming the loan/mortgage druid uses pmt() and assumes constant size payment?
15:10:46 <warlord> kimmo: correct
15:10:58 <warlord> (although jsled is more authoritative in that part of the code)
15:11:15 <warlord> But yes, pmt() should be a constant for the same inputs. ppmt() and ipmt() should change.
15:12:00 <zanberdo> warlord, thank you for the links. I'm reading them now. I was mistaken when I described the original transaction (please forgive the confusion). Where I had said I'd put 3666 down from my money market was technically correct, however that was a transfer to saving. The entire 18926.85 was then deducted from saving and the loan was funded for 15,260.85. So I've been trying to recreate the transaction accurately. I will try again.
15:13:02 <warlord> It might be multiple transactions.. The 3666 from MM -> Savings, and then the "buy the car" transaction
15:13:43 <gjanssens> warlord: the tip of the day list mentions "What's new in GnuCash 2.0" as particularly interesting
15:13:55 <gjanssens> I find that a bit odd for a tip of the day.
15:14:31 <gjanssens> Especially as an addendum to the tip that shows the user the way to the help manual
15:14:33 <warlord> gjanssens: yeah, that might be odd..
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15:15:03 <gjanssens> Shall I make it a tip on its own ? Or just remove that bit ?
15:15:38 <gjanssens> Of course 2.0 will have to be replaced with 2.4 soon...
15:15:50 <gjanssens> at least if someone updates this section in the docs :)
15:15:58 <zanberdo> warlord, right, I've already handled the transfer from the money market to the saving, so my saving account reflects the entire amount available for the purchase. Where I'm getting hung up is the initial transaction for the loan.
15:16:08 <warlord> gjanssens: I dont have a preference.
15:16:29 <gjanssens> warlord: ok
15:16:29 <warlord> zanberdo: the initial transaction for the loan is the purchase of the car.
15:16:40 <warlord> ... unless the bank gave you a check to deposit into your savings?
15:16:48 <warlord> (which I would find.. odd)
15:17:24 <warlord> zanberdo: the best way to think of a transaction is a flow of money. Each transaction is marking the flow of money from some place to some place (or multiple places on each side).
15:17:45 <warlord> So buying your car, it's money coming from your savings and the bank loan, and going to "the car"
15:20:29 <gjanssens> warlord, zanberdo: possibly the bank deposited the money for the loan on your bank account, in which case the loan would be opened by a transfer from the loan account to the bank account, and the car asset would be setup by a payment from the bank account to the car asset account ?
15:21:05 <gjanssens> it all depends which accounts the money actually passed
15:21:10 <warlord> gjanssens: that would be another potential way it could've been done. In the end I dont think it particularly matters.
15:22:30 <gjanssens> warlord: that's right, it's just a suggestion that might be closer to what actually happened, and so could be easier to understand
15:26:46 <gjanssens> warlord: about the tip of the day thingy: I realized we are in string freeze... are the tips translated ? If so I probably should hold off any changes in there
15:27:10 <gjanssens> The tips are all enclosed in N_( )
15:27:41 <gjanssens> but I keep forgetting whether that means they are to be translated or just the opposite
15:28:11 <warlord> yes, they are translated.
15:28:41 <warlord> Both N_() and _() mean to translate this string. It's only a question of when (during runtime) the app calls gettext().
15:29:01 <gjanssens> Ok
15:29:42 <zanberdo> In my case, I had already financed the car through the manufacturer. I went to my bank and they did the following: they underwrote the loan for 15,260.85. The outstanding balance on the loan was 18926.85. The bank deposited the loan balance (15260.85) into my savings account, transferred the balance of 3666.00 to saving from my money market, then withdrew the 18926.85 from savings to payoff the manufacturer. They then created
15:29:42 <zanberdo> the loan account for the loan amount of 15260.85. What I've done in gnucash is to reflect the transfer from my money market account to my savings account. What I'm trying to do now is setup the loan to reflect the balance of 15260.85, deduct the 18926.85 from savings, and make the car reflect whatever the heck it's supposed to reflect! :)
15:30:42 <zanberdo> so I'm thinking that the original deposit into the money market for 15260.85 should more accurately be reflected as coming from the car loan
15:31:12 <zanberdo> sorry, mean the deposit into savings for that amount
15:32:12 <zanberdo> so, what I've done thus far is:
15:32:58 <zanberdo> I've changed the source of the deposit into saving of 15260.85 from Other Income to Car Loan (this now reflects the 15260.85 in the car loan account). And I've transferred the 3666 from the money market to savings
15:33:56 <zanberdo> so my savings and money market and car loan all look ok. Only I have to deduct the 18926.85 to reflect the payoff to the manufacturer
15:34:19 <zanberdo> well, that and the actual asset for the car is still a 0 balance
15:34:19 <gjanssens> zanberdo, ok, so the last step is to pay for the car: from savings account to car asset account
15:34:26 <zanberdo> got it!
15:36:08 <zanberdo> brilliant! ok, now my car account reflects the 18926.85 as a net positive balance, the car loan reflects 15260.85 as a net positive balance, and the savings reflects the payment of 18926.85, thus balancing...
15:36:57 <zanberdo> and from what warlord said before, the car (asset) should never change, just the loan balance (decrease) and interest paid (same category I use for all interest paid).
15:37:44 <zanberdo> I think that looks right... unless I should be tracking interest paid for the auto loan separate from the mortgage.. in which case I will have to create a new category, but I think I can co-mingle those transactions...
15:39:38 <warlord> yes, you should track invoice separately
15:40:01 <zanberdo> invoice=interest?
15:40:08 <warlord> er, yes, sorry
15:40:18 <warlord> you should track interest separately.
15:40:25 <zanberdo> one more question: how do I show hidden accounts? I hid my old loan and now I want to unhide it so I can correct it.
15:40:49 <zanberdo> yes, I probably should track the interest separately, I agree. I may have to do some work to make sure I account for it all but that will have to wait.
15:41:12 <zanberdo> I've made a right mess of things due to my not understanding how it all works. But now I have a workable example that I think I can use to correct my mistakes.
15:41:42 <zanberdo> nm the question regarding the hidden accounts
15:41:44 <zanberdo> I think I found it
15:41:57 <warlord> View ->
15:44:14 <zanberdo> yeah, I got it. thanks! :) and thanks for all the help! I (think) I understand things a little better now... maybe I can fix some of my other accounts and get the correct information...
15:44:37 <gjanssens> warlord: I have reverted the tip that refers to the manual and committed a fix for the Development version tip
15:44:57 <warlord> ok
15:48:20 <zanberdo> ok, may I ask another question? Now that I've paid off the loan for my previous car and no longer have it as an asset, how do I zero it out? That is, my previous car which I traded in on the purchase of the new care shows as an asset for the original amount purchased. Since I don't own it any more, what do I do with the account? Just hide it?
15:49:13 <kimmo> warlord, thanks
15:49:14 <zanberdo> note: I've zero'd out the loan associated with the previous car by applying a lump sum payment for the amount I received on trade in as coming from Income: Other Income, so the loan balance is zero, but the asset remains
15:52:05 <gjanssens> so your new car's worth is actually 18926.85 + plus whatever the manufacturer still wanted to pay for your old car ?
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16:01:15 <zanberdo_> gjanssens, is that right? would my new car be worth what I paid for it (the 18926.85) plus the payoff of the trade in? I assumed that since the manufacturer paid off the previous car loan, thus zeroing it out, that the value of the new car was just for the amount that I'd taken the loan for (the 18926.85 figure)
16:01:45 <zanberdo_> this might well go back to the very real fact that I am *not* an accountant and have done my own accounting by the seat of my pants...
16:02:08 <gjanssens> Your car is worth what the invoice says. How you pay that amount is a separate matter
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16:02:55 <gjanssens> From your explanations it seems the car was worth more than the 18926.26, and part of it was "paid" by "selling" the old car
16:03:07 <zanberdo_> right, that's what I thought. So the 18926.85 is the worth of the new car
16:03:19 <zanberdo_> oh... hmm
16:05:44 <zanberdo_> I guess if I wanted to fudge, I could apply a decrease in the amount of the old car asset by the value of the asset, thereby zeroing it out... probably not kosher for proper accounting but it would result in my not showing the car as a asset since I no longer own it.
16:06:49 <gjanssens> Not really kosher indeed, but ok for your purposes perhaps.
16:07:20 <gjanssens> I would instead transfer an amount from the old car asset to the new car asset (whatever the manufacturer offered you for it)
16:08:03 <gjanssens> and the rest of the old car asset could be transferred to a value decrease.
16:08:41 <gjanssens> "Depreciation" ? or what is it called in English (I'm no native English speaker...)
16:10:31 <zanberdo_> depreciation is the correct term, though if it's the correct context I could not say. Generally speaking I've been using GNUCash as a means to track my various savings, checking, loans and investment accounts, but I'm not using the resulting data for calculating taxes and such, so I don't have to be exactly accurate, although I'd like to learn and use the tool correctly...
16:11:21 <zanberdo_> I'm guessing many of the people who use GNUCash and most of the people in this channel have some accounting experience, something I lack.
16:11:44 <zanberdo_> Thank you again warlord and gjanssens for all your assistance. I know I've hijacked the channel and I appreciate your patiences with me
16:17:50 <warlord> you're welcome
16:19:49 <gjanssens> no problem
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16:57:18 <rpg> Is it acceptable to ask questions about the native (quartz?) Mac port here?
16:58:30 <jsled> yes. I don't know if anyone specifically knowledgeable in that area is around to answer, but you can ask.
17:01:00 <rpg> Trying to figure out if my install is up to date. The revs on the dl page are version 2.2.9.x but the "about gnucash" says only "Gnucash 2.2.9" and "built from r17949".
17:01:14 <rpg> Not clear how to determine that x version component...
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17:50:12 <warlord> the 'x' is OSX specific.
17:50:23 <warlord> I dont think there's a good way
17:56:31 <warlord> The extra .x is purely part of the OSX packaging and not part of the application
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21:12:11 <rootwzrd> Hi all
21:14:52 <rootwzrd> I see that the 2.3xx unstable is well on it's way.... I am a bit confused about setting up a 2.2.6 with a sql backend.
21:15:19 <jsled> it didn't really exist. I wouldn't recommend it.
21:16:54 <rootwzrd> is there a lib or a setting somwhere that I need before that option will become available under the File -> Save As menu
21:19:38 <rootwzrd> thank you jsled I understand it may be a bit risky... I did want to expirment with intergrating that with oobase and oOffice charts and spredsheets etc.
21:20:12 <jsled> if you're experimenting, I suggest you target 2.3.x. Or at least the latest stable: 2.2.9.
21:20:43 <jsled> at the least, you'll need to build 2.2.9 youself with postgres-enabling options that I do not recall.
21:24:40 <rootwzrd> does the 2.2.9 have that option a bit more obvious then the earlier ver.s -- cause I google-ed and rtfm-ed all over the place... I saw a lot of talk about using a sql backend - But I couldn't any clear how-tos or at something indicating what I was doing wrong -- or better yet what I was NOT doing right.
21:25:43 <jsled> No. There was no obvious way to use the SQL backend before the 2.3 series
21:26:28 <rootwzrd> oh I see this is enabled in a build... I thought it might have already been a option in a binary... well see their I go... acting like a complete noob
21:29:55 <jsled> not at all. :)
21:33:35 <rootwzrd> Thank you much... I'll start out with the latest and greatest 2.3.x and see how that acts.. Then if need be drop back to 2.2.9. In reading the change logs and sub release notes of 2.3.xx they appear to be rocking fixing mega stuff with each build release.
21:51:02 <warlord> it was --enable-sql
21:51:07 <warlord> and only worked with postgres
21:51:17 <warlord> and only the main financial portions, no biz features.
21:51:21 <warlord> ... and was slow.
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