2010-03-17 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:55:56 <JesseW> jsled: that was my thought, too.
01:56:20 <JesseW> I'll see about moving any doc comments in .h files over to .c files...
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05:54:13 <gour> it looks that in order to tweak gnucash one needs some guile skills, right?
06:00:54 <gour> am i right that for such task GOOPS is not required?
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06:39:29 <gour> is there some doc in regard to "guile for gnucash tweaking"?
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08:42:07 * warlord-afk likes documenting in .h files, because that's what gets exported to users of the API
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08:42:44 <warlord> gour: there's a wiki page on Custom_Reports
08:42:52 <warlord> what kind of tweaking do you want?
08:43:33 <gour> warlord: i saw it...mostly customizing invoices...now i'm reading some basic stuff/tutorials about guile
08:47:53 <warlord> that's a good place to start
08:51:18 <gour> good
08:57:30 <warlord> Also note that 2.3/2.4 will have e-guile based invoices and CSS which lets you do much more via regular html and css.
09:01:00 <gour> warlord: yep, i'm thinking about trying with 2.3.x
09:02:03 <gour> which guile is used/supported in 2.3.x? i read a bit about guile-2.0 which looks cool, especially in regard to emacs :-)
09:11:48 <warlord> only 1.6 and 1.8
09:11:54 <warlord> we dont support 2.0
09:13:32 <gour> so, 2.0 will come in 2.6?
09:15:44 * gour is starting with http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html book
09:22:03 <warlord> Maybe...
09:22:19 <warlord> There's also the MIT Scheme Reference
09:22:51 <gour> on #guile, they told me about http://www.scheme.com/tspl3/
09:23:11 <gour> & SICP
09:23:33 <gour> well, i was skimming over SICP, but then did not think to learn it
09:30:17 <warlord> I didn't mean SICP.
09:32:46 <gour> there are so many implementations of scheme :-/
09:33:38 <gour> i've found MIT reference
09:35:08 <warlord> Yes, there are..
09:35:26 <warlord> back in the day it was a feather in your cap to write a scheme implementation
09:36:58 <gour> heh...since i'm learning haskell, i know about the "writing scheme in 48 hours"
09:42:22 <warlord> :)
09:57:48 <gour> anyone can recommend some basic book about accounting (for dummies)?
09:58:19 <warlord> Start with the Tutorial & Concepts Guide
09:59:10 <gour> ok
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10:15:15 <bpietro> hi, gnucash v.2.2.9 (r17949M built 2009-09-14 - standard latest Ubuntu package) - can't edit transactions, sometimes I can edit simple transaction, sometimes not, split transactions can never edit. Any hint? RTFM don't help, "Editing a transaction involves just selecting the part of the transaction that needs to be changed." Yes, I can select it, but can't edit. Passing to 2.3 version is of no help, need stable versio
10:15:15 <bpietro> n. tnx
10:19:03 <warlord> bpietro: Have you tried editing txns in different accounts?
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10:20:36 <bpietro> warlord, not yet, I can try it now. Some accounts can be edited and some other not???
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10:22:48 <warlord> bpietro: well, that's what I want to know..
10:24:51 <bpietro> Yes, I did it just now. Some accounts can be edited, ex. transaction between two expense accounts can be edited, transaction expense/debit cant be edited. strange to me
10:25:45 <warlord> Okay, what account cannot be edited?
10:30:14 <bpietro> no matter (IMHO) what account. Why I can't edit any account? When I mistype transaction on "blocked" account, I can only write new, good transaction and delete wrong one.
10:34:02 <warlord> Hmm... Try: Actions -> Reset Warnings
10:36:11 <bpietro> No, it not works. I reset all warnings, still can't edit
10:36:58 <bpietro> wait a moment, I need find english terms, I've italian transaltion
10:40:30 <warlord> There's no reason that gnucash would prevent you from editing transactions.
10:41:18 <warlord> .. unless you're trying to edit an A/R account..
10:41:34 <warlord> or somehow txns were marked read-only...
10:41:43 <warlord> .. or the account was marked "placeholder"
10:41:47 <bpietro> so transaction arrival of material with document (which isn't invoice): Debts:supplier - 120/ expense:material - 100; expense:VAT - 20. Split transaction, just register and can't be edited
10:42:12 <bpietro> yes, I know about placeholders, but these accounts aren't placeholders
10:42:18 <warlord> Which account register do you open?
10:42:51 <bpietro> Debts:supplier
10:43:25 <warlord> What is the account type of Debts:supplier? Please open the account-edit dialog to verify.
10:46:26 <bpietro> Yeah, verified just now
10:46:46 <warlord> verified what? what's the account type?
10:46:59 <bpietro> account type debts
10:47:07 <warlord> There is no type "debts"
10:47:27 <warlord> What's the actual type string?
10:49:59 <bpietro> conto debitore in italian, but it can be wrong translation
10:51:06 <bpietro> it's last item in account type list
10:52:30 <bpietro> but this don't explain whu can'y be edited (I can write here, I can delete, why can't edit?)
10:52:53 <bpietro> *why ... can't
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11:44:49 <warlord> Well, bpietro, I did solve your issue, but you logged out...
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13:50:07 <cinex> hi
13:51:53 <cinex> I don't know if I'm in the right place or not but: I have started using gnucash for finances (I've not done any accounting before) So over the last two months I have come up with a way to keep everything neat and tidy. But the last two months accounts are really messy and butchered half to death. So I wanted to start again but keep all the info as it were. can I export the accounts list or soemthing ?
13:52:26 <jsled> yes, and only
13:52:58 <cinex> nice
13:53:04 <jsled> that is: there is one thing you can export: just the chart of accounts. No transactions, scheduled transactions, business objects, commodity pricing, or anything else.
13:53:28 <cinex> is it the best way to accheive what I want to acheive? closing the 'books' left all the transactions visable
13:53:59 <cinex> I imagined they would be stored somewhere seperate
13:54:51 <cinex> like a different tab
13:58:35 <jsled> if you want ot start over entering the last 2.5 months of transactions in the same account tree, then using the account-tree export a good approach
13:59:14 <warlord> why would you think that closing the books would make those txns disappear?
13:59:29 <cinex> I think im going to date the datafile - make it read only and then enter in the opening balances.
13:59:40 <cinex> enter them into a blank sheet
14:12:01 <cinex> what are the xac files?
14:17:20 <cinex> nvm
14:19:29 <cinex> I do have a general account query. If I have an expense account for travel and an expense account for dates (noting that I'm interested in tracking my money to find ways of cutting back and spending less) what do I do if I have to pay for public transport (bus/train/taxi) on a date? Where do I list the spending?
14:19:37 <cinex> on a purley technical level...
14:20:05 <cinex> I have a ciggarette account - but if I buy smokes whilst on a date (would never happen but still)..
14:20:33 <warlord> xac is a backup
14:21:09 <warlord> cinex: well, you can only account for money in one place. You cannot mark a $1 as both a date and transportation.
14:21:53 <cinex> ya, but I can transfer it from dates to the correct accounts - but then adding up the money spent on dates means doing it by hand/with calculator
14:22:08 <cinex> or somehow use splits to redirect the cash
14:22:25 <warlord> Like I said, you cannot account for the same $1 in multiple places.
14:22:33 <cinex> I think splits are probably best but I don't know how its supposed to be done.
14:23:19 <warlord> If you spend $10, you can apply $7 towards 'date' and $3 towards 'transportation', but short of something in the txn desc there's no way to say "I spent $10 on this date and $3 of it was transportation"
14:24:30 <warlord> I.e., you cannot credit your cash account by $10 and then both debit date by $10 AND debit transportation by $3
14:24:31 <cinex> ok
14:24:49 <cinex> can auto add the rebate section to get a total? (is it automatic?)
14:25:02 <cinex> total rebate
14:25:33 <cinex> because with splits the dates account rebates everything else? (terminology)
14:27:21 <warlord> Sorry, I have no clue what you're talking about. (yes, i think there is a terminology issue here)
14:27:45 <cinex> could u give me 1 sec
14:28:24 <cinex> http://tinypic.com/r/ljv61/5
14:28:46 <cinex> screenshots tell the story I can't explain :S
14:29:28 * gour is reading about scheme (cdr, car, list...) instead of fiddling with accountant's terminology which will be done later :-)
14:29:30 <cinex> the total for the date ends up in the 'tot rebate' section
14:29:31 <warlord> Okay, so you have a split transaction there. You spent $500, $250 on travel and $250 on cigaretts.
14:30:21 <warlord> I suppose you could look at it that way, but that's an artifact of the method you're viewing the transactions.
14:30:22 <cinex> yep. but the total I spend on dates isn't auto added in the rebate section like it would be in the blanace section? (I think)
14:30:45 <warlord> Right, because you cannot double-account for money.
14:31:14 <cinex> warlord: this allows me to judge money in my head via catagory - can I justify buying a car etc. but I also need to know how much I'm spending on going out with the wife.
14:32:13 <warlord> cinex: I understand what you're trying to do.. I'm saying there is no way in GAAP to do it, short of having an "expenses:wife" subtree and then you have "expenses:wife:dining", "expenses:wife:transportation", etc...
14:32:26 <warlord> But then you cannot easy see "how much did I spend on transportation?"
14:32:37 <warlord> You'd have to manually add expenses:transportation with expenses:wife:transportation
14:32:57 <cinex> (call it dates or ill get slapped) lol
14:33:12 <warlord> What you REALLY want are what quicken called Classes.. It's a "tag" on a transaction (or technically on a split) that let's you account for it in multiple ways.
14:33:42 <cinex> I will have to add the rebates then.
14:34:14 <warlord> you cant
14:34:19 <warlord> you cannot double account for money
14:34:34 <warlord> If you spend $5, you cannot account for it in more than 1 account.
14:35:03 <cinex> I know this.
14:35:05 <warlord> Either that $5 is ex:date:trans or ex:trans or ex:dining or ex:date:dining or ex:smokes
14:36:55 <warlord> The "total rebate" is not an actual number.. It's a viewing artifact based on your view of the expense register.
14:37:22 <cinex> yep, but in reality it is how much I spent on the date
14:37:40 <cinex> that plus the accumlated figure
14:37:49 <cinex> http://tinypic.com/r/5v0qgy/5
14:38:13 <cinex> no it isn't
14:38:35 <cinex> this should be automatic
14:39:06 <warlord> cinex: this isn't working for you because you are trying to double-account for money.
14:39:19 <warlord> You're trying to categorize an expenditure multiple ways
14:39:21 <warlord> You cannot do that.
14:40:15 <cinex> I'm trying to trace my cash without doing any maths
14:40:19 <warlord> This concept makes much more sense if you do all your data entry from your asset and liability accounts. So open you Cash account and enter it in from there.
14:40:43 <gour> this is accounting's principle issue, nothing with gnucash?
14:40:54 <warlord> cinex: that's fine, but you cannot claim the same expenditure into multiple categories
14:41:00 <warlord> gour: pretty much, yes
14:41:39 <gour> maybe using some 'personal money tracker' would be easier in such situation
14:41:43 <warlord> If I spend $10 (credit cash $10) I can split it up as much as I want, so I can say that $10 went to: food ($2), gas ($1), train ($1.50), etc...
14:42:02 <warlord> gour: maybe a spreadsheet where it's not enforcing double-entry.
14:42:30 <warlord> ... but I cannot say "this $1 should count for both 'food' and 'date'"
14:42:33 <gour> warlord: right. gnucash follows the rules. no cheating ;)
14:42:34 <cinex> I do that. I have an ATM account, which gets debited when I withdraw money. which gets split into all other accounts (basically cash in the house and its purpose)
14:42:47 <warlord> ... which is what you're trying to do cinex .. It violates double-accounting.
14:43:14 <cinex> yes, and so does an accountant that costs lots of money... but he knows how to deal with the issue
14:43:21 <cinex> he doesn't say thats impossible
14:43:41 <warlord> It's not impossible.. It IS impossible without having to do extra math.
14:43:48 <cinex> meh
14:43:58 <jsled> I don't follow. what do cigs and travel have to do with your dates?
14:44:30 <cinex> ciggs was my way of not disclosing what i do on my dates. but if i want to go to toronto and do things there, I need to catch a train.
14:45:02 <jsled> ah. heh.
14:45:22 <warlord> cinex: then create expenses:dates:train
14:45:25 <warlord> .. and use that
14:45:43 <gour> cinex: spend less money on ciggs and everything will be fine ;)
14:45:47 <cinex> and how does that tie into the taxi i bring the shopping home in ?
14:46:40 <cinex> I've got the best method - I just with i could run a script through it for the math - like a function or a report or have it somehow programmable into the cash flow thing
14:46:40 * gour thinks that in order to cheat, one has to learn following the rules first
14:46:43 <warlord> cinex: it doesnt, directly, which is exactly my point... If you want to tie them together you need to manually add them together.
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14:47:16 <warlord> Like I said, what you really want are "Tags", which gnucash doesn't implement.
14:49:05 <warlord> ( a tag would be a way to double-account for money -- which is exactly what you're trying to do. You want to say "this is transportation cost" but also "this is date cost".. And you want to be able to ask "how much did I spend on dates?" and "how much did I spend on transportation?" and have that money included in both queries
14:50:00 <cinex> yes, but they are seperate issues I know. and dates arn't really an issue its just half the date stuff gets shoved into accounts while some parts dont have an account to go into.
14:50:03 <cinex> its messy
14:50:29 <warlord> i'm just saying gnucash does not do what you want. Sorry.
14:50:46 <cinex> dont be sorry - it does everything else
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14:52:23 <cinex> like a taxman - the dates account handles loads of money and steals huge chucks.
14:52:36 <cinex> chunks
15:00:21 <gour> am i right that guile does not support 'when' & 'unless' ?
15:01:20 <jsled> gour: "support"? of course it does; it can support anything. :) Have already? … I don't recall seeing them.
15:01:56 <gour> jsled: well, i know you can write anything, but those are not in 'batteries included' ?
15:02:35 <cinex> what does cleared mean on the summary bar?
15:02:57 <cinex> ill google it
15:03:36 <warlord> cinex: it's the sum of all the transactions with reconciliation flag "cleared" (c)
15:19:36 <cinex> lol I went through my statement this morning - the hard way :S
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15:42:25 <Rolf> warlord: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-gnucash/gnucash.git;a=blob;f=debian/README.debian
15:42:32 <Rolf> that may be my issue right there.
15:42:37 <Rolf> it sounds a lot like it.
15:42:59 <Rolf> the strange thing is that I'm compiling from svn, so I should be newer
15:43:41 <Rolf> right now, I'm having a few issues to fight to get gnucash to compile from svn, so I haven't managed yet to recompile the earlier checkout I used to run.
15:44:01 <warlord> Rolf: that was only the case from 2.0.x -> 2.2.x
15:44:12 <Rolf> I see
15:44:17 <Rolf> I should be safe, then
15:44:23 <warlord> at least, that's what that readme is talking about.
15:44:35 <warlord> There shouldn't be any issue between 2.2.6 and 2.2.9
15:45:25 <Rolf> I was running svn r18249, then briefly 2.2.9 from Debian, and now I have the issues I told you about on r18792
15:45:42 <Rolf> I think 2.2.9 from Debian does not support sqlite backend, though
15:45:52 <Rolf> so, I'm not sure that had any effect at all
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15:48:31 <warlord> 2.2.x does not support SQL
15:48:31 <warlord> the SQL is all new in 2.3
15:48:50 <Rolf> OK
15:48:57 <Rolf> It's been published a while
15:49:09 <Rolf> I had figured it would be in the releases by now
15:49:19 <Rolf> I think it's pretty cool
15:49:28 <Rolf> When is 2.2.x branch going to end?
15:49:34 <warlord> About a year ago.
15:49:39 <Rolf> ?
15:49:48 * Rolf needs ot check when 2.2.9 was released
15:50:20 <Rolf> I've been out of the loop for quite a while now
15:50:51 <warlord> 2.2.9 was tagged 02/23/09 15:22:36 (1 year ago)
15:50:55 <warlord> so... over a year ago
15:50:57 <Rolf> I guess my question is then, when are we going to see the first 2.4.x release?
15:51:12 <Rolf> any plans, yet?
15:51:15 <warlord> When it's ready. Check the wiki for the current release schedule.
15:52:39 <Rolf> Aha
15:52:58 <Rolf> good stuff
15:54:03 <warlord> :)
15:56:59 <Rolf> would you encourage or discourage packaged deb files in a PPA (do you know what a PPA is?)?
15:57:37 <Rolf> IOW, if it helped the project I'd package up the 2.3.10 unstable release and roll it into a package so that others can test-drive it
16:01:23 <jsled> do it
16:01:46 <jsled> it can not hurt to do that, and would make it more accessible to more people to test it.
16:01:50 <jsled> This can only be a good thing.
16:01:59 <Rolf> yes, I would agree
16:02:20 <Rolf> some projects discourage access to unstable code for people not capable of compiling for themselves, though
16:02:27 <Rolf> so I felt it's better to ask
16:02:37 <Rolf> Let's see if I can roll up something later tonight
16:02:48 <Rolf> need to solve my own problems first
16:02:53 <jsled> if it was just straight SVN, I might be inclined to agree. But these are unstable releases directly leading to the stable release.
16:02:57 <jsled> And the 10th one, at that.
16:03:03 <warlord> I'd be against it... It would have to LOUDLY state "this is a test release. You may lose your data. Do NOT use this for real data."
16:03:16 <jsled> well, sure.
16:03:30 <warlord> You cannot gloss over the fact that it's a test release..
16:03:39 <jsled> no one is trying to.
16:03:51 <warlord> Maybe require users to actively acknowledge it during install and at every execution
16:04:10 <jsled> well, to use the PPA they'd have to do something exceptional, no?
16:04:26 <jsled> they'd have to go out of their way to include it into their approved repos list.
16:04:39 <Rolf> yes
16:07:05 <warlord> The person setting up the machine may not be the person running gnucash.
16:07:44 <jsled> in most cases they will be.
16:07:59 <jsled> And if they're not, why are they adding unstable PPA repos for other users?
16:18:32 <warlord> Because some website told them how to do it?
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16:28:47 <Mark_> Question: I am using Gnucash 2.2.9. Is there a way to create a JOB that you can link to invoices for multiple customers? From what I see it appears a JOB can only be linked to one customer.
16:32:25 <warlord> No, a Job belongs only to 1 customer. There is no just object to link multiple customers.
16:32:30 <warlord> How would that work in real life?
16:37:31 <Mark_> For example. We are using GNUcash for a training center. Each student is set up as a customer. When we register them for a class we invoice each student for the class. It would help to be able to do a job report to see if every student has been invoiced and paid or not.
16:42:58 <warlord> That's what the "Receivable Aging" report is for..
16:43:26 <warlord> (well, mostly -- it might not tell you if you failed to invoice a student, but it will tell you if they've failed to pay)
16:46:18 <Mark_> I understand that. Also if I remember correctly Receivable aging only gives you the total a customer owes without breaking it down by individual invoice.
16:47:58 <Mark_> Ok. Thanks anyways. Don't know if it might be a possibility for a future addition.
16:48:28 <Mark_> ?
16:51:03 <warlord> true.. But you can run the customer report to break it down.
16:51:29 <warlord> Well, anything is possible if the code is donated, but no, I dont think that's something that would get added.
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16:58:04 <warlord> Also note that in gnucash you generally don't pay an invoice.. you pay a customer (or vendor) account.. so it's not necessarily keeping track of "paid v. unpaid invoices" but rather "total amount due"
17:00:30 <Mark_> Ok, I see what you mean. Thanks for your help.
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17:00:56 <cinex> warlord, you can manually reconsile them though, righT?
17:01:08 <warlord> manually reconcile invoice payments? nope
17:01:16 <cinex> oh
17:01:17 <cinex> ok
17:01:57 <warlord> cinex: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108570
17:08:48 <cinex> hmmm
17:17:15 <cinex> warlord: do u programme gnucash ?
17:18:49 <warlord> not in a long time
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