2010-03-08 GnuCash IRC logs

00:12:45 *** rcsheets has joined #gnucash
00:14:02 <rcsheets> using 2.3.10 on windows, gnucash's calculation of sales tax for a particular invoice is off by a penny compared to both my online invoicing solution and my state tax authority's calculator. how can i properly deal with this?
00:31:16 <shade304> I can't say exactly what is going on in your situation, but in my experiance it has to deal with entering the price to the correct place, 2.343 instead of 2.34
00:32:09 <shade304> when I started using gnucash, I had to enter 2 months worth of quickbooks invoices, and I had one penny errors over and over
00:32:11 <rcsheets> well the pre-tax subtotal shows up fine
00:32:34 <rcsheets> qty 0.179, unit price 20.00, no discount, subtotal 3.58, tax 0.26
00:32:38 <rcsheets> tax should be 0.25
00:33:41 <rcsheets> so you're thinking i need another decimal place somewhere?
00:34:03 <shade304> what is your tax rate?
00:34:41 <rcsheets> there are three, 0.50%, 1.00%, and 5.50%
00:36:38 <rcsheets> i get 0.2506 for the tax, using a calculator, which i'd say rounds down to 0.25
00:37:57 <shade304> I'm not sure how it works with 3 tax rates, we only have 1 here..
00:38:14 <rcsheets> lucky :P
00:38:15 <shade304> i would n't think it would matter
00:38:29 <rcsheets> yeah, it doesn't seem like it should
00:41:26 <shade304> unless it is figuring subtotal + 1%, new subtotal +.5%, new subtotal +5.5%
00:41:55 <rcsheets> hmm
00:42:15 <shade304> which would be .25374.. should still round down, maybe 5.5% is first?
00:42:17 <rcsheets> i'd think that would result in a discrepancy on more than just one line
00:42:36 <rcsheets> i mean if they stacked
00:42:47 <rcsheets> more than just this would be off
00:42:49 <shade304> you might could try with bigger amounts
00:44:08 <rcsheets> i have a line with a qty of 1.00 and a unit price of 100.00 on the same invoice
00:44:13 <rcsheets> and the same tax table used
00:44:20 <rcsheets> subtotal is 100.00 and tax is 7.00
00:44:22 <rcsheets> as it should be
00:44:26 <shade304> hmm
00:45:27 <rcsheets> i would think if it was stacking the tax rates, it would show up as a larger error on that line. right?
00:45:50 <rcsheets> though it does lead me to wonder how you'd tell gnucash to stack taxes, if that's actually what is needed.
00:45:51 <shade304> in my case, quickbooks was incorrectly figuring, although I did appreciate the fact that it was always in my favor.. if you factor in all the users they are probably responsible for stealing millions of pennies! oh well
00:46:01 <rcsheets> haha
00:46:23 <rcsheets> i can't think of a way to figure this that makes gnucash correct
00:47:26 <rcsheets> if you do the 5.5% first it's off by a lot more than a penny
00:47:39 <shade304> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2009-December/032604.html
00:47:55 <shade304> I haven't read this all through, but looks like a similar problem
00:48:19 <rcsheets> that's almost exactly what i'm doing
00:51:49 <rcsheets> going forward in the thread, i think they're talking about much more complex things than i am trying to deal with
00:51:51 <shade304> I've got to go, but you might try back tomorrow, if you leave your irc logged in, someone may answer, I'm sure it is something simple, but if you could figure out what was going on, you would probably have already fixed it..
00:51:52 <rcsheets> (thankfully)
00:51:59 <rcsheets> yeah i'll just idle forever :)
00:52:02 <rcsheets> thanks for your help
00:52:12 <shade304> best of luck!
00:52:17 <rcsheets> appreciated! bye.
01:29:42 *** warlord-afk has quit IRC
02:04:49 *** e-ndy has joined #gnucash
02:11:32 *** jpetersen has joined #gnucash
02:14:27 *** jean has joined #gnucash
02:19:08 <rcsheets> sleep time. i'll check back in later.
02:27:48 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
03:26:09 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
03:43:13 *** jpetersen_ has joined #gnucash
03:44:27 *** feisar has joined #gnucash
03:50:20 *** jpetersen has quit IRC
04:01:42 *** jpetersen_ is now known as jpetersen
04:12:24 *** harlanwebber has quit IRC
05:50:08 *** jean has quit IRC
06:47:20 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
08:00:01 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
08:08:20 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
08:39:35 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
08:40:30 <warlord> rcsheets: The taxes are computed (and rounded) individually. 3.58*.005 == 0.179 -> 0.18
08:41:31 <warlord> (er, .0170 -> 0.02)
08:41:48 <warlord> 3.58 * .01 == .0358 -> .04
08:42:38 <warlord> 3.58 * .055 = .19690 -> .20
08:42:45 <warlord> So.. .20 + .04 + .02 == .26
09:31:41 *** e-ndy has quit IRC
09:41:59 *** KaiForce has joined #gnucash
10:44:43 <kimmo> warlord, how do I update (or delete) a custom report? [ Without emacs'ing ~/.gnucash/saved-reports-2.0 ]
10:44:56 <warlord> AFAIK that's the only way.
10:45:15 <kimmo> ok
10:45:32 <kimmo> another one, is there a way to set a per-file fiscal period?
10:46:25 <kimmo> so that a report which defaults to from start of fiscal period to end of fiscal period would display what I'd expect when I run it on "my-business-2008.gnc"
10:46:27 <warlord> Unfortunately no.
10:46:34 <kimmo> mmkay
10:46:45 <kimmo> let's hope the new auditors are not completely braindead
10:47:06 <kimmo> not that I'd let them emacs, but I'll teach them how to run them reports
10:47:21 <warlord> Keep in mind that period dates are purely for reporting; it does not prevent changes to "previous period" transactions.
10:47:36 <warlord> If you want read-only data like that, write your data file to CDROM
10:48:07 <kimmo> I have my archives on 3 different brands of CD-R
10:49:13 <warlord> there ya go
10:50:16 <kimmo> unfortunately however my new auditor does not have gnucash (they had heard of it, though!), but they have some vSphere esx server so that people who use "exotic" bookkeeping systems can simply send in a complete VM image
10:51:47 <warlord> heh
10:58:35 <kimmo> maybe I'll just send my VM in a hibernating or whatever mode with all the reports properly displayed
11:02:39 <warlord> Heh
11:02:57 <warlord> Why not just export the reports as HTML and email them>
11:02:58 <warlord> ?
11:03:15 <kimmo> they want the general ledger, too
11:03:54 <kimmo> anyway, I noticed the saved-reports-2.0 tells me "Report xyz based on template abc", is that purely informational, or is template abc a prerequisite?
11:04:46 <warlord> It's a pre-req
11:06:48 <kimmo> ok, I have a "Income statement - Cost center A (proper)", based on "Income statement - Cost center A", based on "Income statement". Is it safe to delete the "Income statement - Cost center A", and switch the Proper one to be based on "Income statement"?
11:07:24 <kimmo> the only change is in the account selection, and it seems to me that it includes the full list
11:07:27 <warlord> No
11:07:51 <warlord> Saved reports are all based on each other. If you have a chain you cannot delete any members of that chain.
11:08:50 <kimmo> hrm, then I could really use an "Update custom report" functionality, or a "Add report based on a standard report" functionality
11:09:19 <kimmo> oh well, I guess I'll just update my account selection with emacs
11:09:41 <kimmo> (but for non-lisp people, report updating would be nice)
11:10:15 <warlord> Patches always welcome. ;)
11:10:57 <kimmo> ;)
11:11:37 <kimmo> maybe if there were no free, usable, easy, intuitive accounting software available, I would have outsourced my bookkeeping and would have time to contribute ;)
11:13:53 <kimmo> hmm, at the moment, can you change anythining other than report options for a custom report? So that the whole chain of custom reports are always just instances of the original standard report, with a given set of options?
11:15:19 <warlord> No, you can only change report options.
11:16:30 *** fDavid has quit IRC
11:16:34 <kimmo> so what's there to stop me from changing all references of "Income statement - Cost center A" to "Income statement"in the definition of "Income statement - Cost center A (proper)"
11:18:11 <warlord> Umm.. Nothing?
11:18:30 <kimmo> cool
11:21:29 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:27:38 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
11:43:29 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
12:00:07 *** Zoolooc has joined #gnucash
12:09:07 *** raleightile has joined #gnucash
12:11:27 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
12:32:00 *** racoon42 has joined #gnucash
12:33:10 <racoon42> hi there... I'm wondering about the bayes based auto-categorize feature of items - I'm using gnucash 2.2.9 (german edition) and HBCI to get updates, but every item is booked to the same category and I don't know why
12:33:27 <racoon42> they don't have anything in common, neither the origin, the amount or the description
12:33:27 *** delaman has quit IRC
12:34:12 <racoon42> perhaps it's helping me to get a pointer how to "reset" the bayesian feature, perhaps it's full of crap :)
12:39:00 *** fDavid has quit IRC
12:41:35 <warlord> unfortunately there is no way in the UI to reset the bayesian tags.
12:42:18 <warlord> Perhaps what happened was that the first time you ran the importer with bayesian turned on you didn't adjust the settings? You still do have to go through an hand-select each item correctly in order for it to learn.
12:42:30 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
12:52:06 *** KaiForce has quit IRC
12:59:05 *** ErKa has quit IRC
13:02:43 *** linas has quit IRC
13:22:42 *** fDavid has quit IRC
13:25:58 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
13:27:42 <racoon42> warlord: well, it's possible that the first time i was running HBCI the bayes filter was on, but i used to redefine the categories after the import for some weeks now but it's still autoselecting the one and only category only
13:28:09 <warlord> You cannot do it AFTER the import. You need to do it DURING the import.
13:30:04 <racoon42> hmmm, I'm not sure if there was a way to do this after getting the new HBCI items
13:30:18 <racoon42> since i updated today already, i can't test it right now :(
13:34:50 <warlord> dammit, I thought we fixed the empty messages to gnucash-user, but apparently not.
13:37:36 <warlord> I suspect it's due to Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? = yes
13:37:43 <racoon42> wow
13:38:06 <racoon42> just found an explanation of the xml in the book, and the part of "import-map-bayes" structure is quite a mess
13:38:09 <warlord> I know we talked about it before, but I cannot find my references to this issue. :(
13:38:41 <racoon42> there are entries of "V" with a value of the mentioned category, so it's no onder it's autoselecting wrong category :)
13:40:47 <warlord> Heh. I wonder where the 'V' is coming from?
13:40:56 <racoon42> me too
13:41:31 <racoon42> entries with key "unbekannt", "Dienstag", and some others which all are dedicated to the single category
13:42:01 <racoon42> i'm very happy that gnucash is using xml, so this can be fixed :)
13:42:48 <warlord> Heh
13:44:39 <racoon42> besides that, not sure if they are still the default values, so would you tell me what are the best values for the bayes algo config options?
13:45:21 <racoon42> i've got "1", "3", "6" and "5,00" currently
13:46:30 <warlord> I honestly dont know what the default settings are. You could just remove the whole subtree to reset it to nothing.
13:48:12 <racoon42> k
13:48:39 <racoon42> thanks so far, now i think it has to wait for new items tomorrow to check if it's helping
13:50:47 <warlord> Yep
13:50:59 <warlord> And be sure to go through and assign accounts during the import.
13:54:26 *** cort has joined #gnucash
13:54:37 <racoon42> i'll try if i understand this tomorrow :)
14:04:09 <warlord> okay
14:05:29 <racoon42> well, bye for now and thanks for all the fish :)
14:05:39 *** racoon42 has quit IRC
14:09:17 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
14:35:13 *** jpetersen has quit IRC
14:53:38 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
15:35:46 *** linas has joined #gnucash
15:57:12 *** jean has joined #gnucash
16:15:45 *** fDavid has quit IRC
16:35:36 *** ErKa has quit IRC
16:56:52 *** cort has quit IRC
17:06:44 *** cort has joined #gnucash
17:10:38 *** jean has quit IRC
17:18:51 *** blizgerg has quit IRC
17:24:02 *** feisar has quit IRC
17:40:16 *** Antisoche has quit IRC
17:48:21 *** raleightile has quit IRC
17:56:51 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
17:59:27 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
18:00:39 *** andyt has quit IRC
18:22:11 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
18:42:23 <harlan> how big a deal would it be to get the QB Pro data file format supported by gnucash?
18:42:51 <jsled> in what sense?
18:43:41 <jsled> I can't imagine anyone would object if a patch to implement it showed up.
18:44:24 <harlan> Right, but that would take somebody figuring out the data format. I don't have that info, for example.
18:46:23 <jsled> well, no one's seemed interested in actually doing the work for the ~10 years I've been around, so just asking for it to happen isn't going to change anything.
18:46:28 <jsled> Is the format even documented?
18:46:43 <harlan> Apparently it's not documented.
18:46:49 <jsled> I mean, this isn't QIF or something even close to open, right? It's Quick Books proprietary data format?
18:48:05 <harlan> Is QIF for QB or QBPro? The QB files are currently imported by gnucash, but I have/use qbpro and I would *love* to stop paying money to Intuit every couple of years.
18:49:22 <jsled> QB datafiles aren't imported by gnucash, unless they happen to be QIF, which I doubt.
18:50:34 <harlan> I remember (and I could be wrong) that QB files can be imported to gnucash, but QBPro fies are slightly different (and have different and additional fields and stuff) are are not yet supported (and may never be).
18:50:59 <harlan> If that is true, I was wondering what it might cost to be able to handle importing QBPro files.
18:51:30 <jsled> ah. well, there's no QB importer to delta off of.
18:51:39 <harlan> 'k, thanks.
19:04:54 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
19:27:03 *** fDavid has quit IRC
19:29:28 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
19:36:08 *** fDavid has quit IRC
19:37:41 *** blizgerg has joined #gnucash
19:49:09 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
19:58:29 *** Zoolooc has quit IRC
20:14:22 *** fDavid has quit IRC
20:42:56 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
21:17:16 *** fDavid has quit IRC
21:30:45 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
21:32:42 *** cort has quit IRC
21:37:30 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
21:37:37 <warlord> harlan: There is no QB importer.
21:41:38 <harlan> I must have been confused then, warlord.
21:41:56 <harlan> so how difficult would it be to get one going?
21:44:49 *** fDavid has quit IRC
21:48:13 *** fDavid has joined #gnucash
21:51:29 <warlord> are you offering to write it?
21:51:39 <warlord> The first problem is decoding the format.
21:51:52 <harlan> GSoC is coming up - think a student could decode the format over teh summer?
21:52:06 <harlan> I don't have that kind of time, sadly.
21:52:11 <shade304> harlan: you might want to check out these guys http://www.synergration.com they can help you get your quickbooks data extracted, and then you can decide what to do with it. They helped me in 2004/5 when we were developing custom reports that quickbooks couldn't run
21:52:53 <harlan> thanks shade304 - I'll look.
21:53:32 <shade304> database guys were easier to find around here than quickbooks developers, I think the current version may be a database anyway.. but it hasn't always been that way
21:54:04 <harlan> understood - I was hoping to find a way to make it easier for other quickbooks pro users to ate least look at gnucash.
21:55:19 *** fDavid has quit IRC
21:56:24 <shade304> Also I can tell you that all quickbooks files are not the same, we found that even intuit could not import our data file into the new version, then enterprise edition, or the point of sale version. I think being able to import the "list" from quickbooks would be a great boost to gnucash
22:02:16 <shade304> If anyone wants to take a stab at importing anything from quickbooks, I would be glad get some more information, I have signed a few nda, but I don't think they last forever..
22:02:59 <harlan> It would be great to find a GSoC student who could do this, even if the project was only to decode it. From that info the rest would be easier.
22:03:19 <harlan> If that is a thought, GSoC mentor organization application time is now, for the next few days' time.
22:04:08 <shade304> I'm behind you 100%, but not sure what to do..
22:05:29 <harlan> It would take somebody from the gnucash project to apply to GSoC as a mentoring organizatition, and if they are accepted, be ready with some project proposals (or just this one, for example).
22:05:52 <harlan> Then somebody needs to be ready to be a mentor if a student steps forward.
22:06:35 <shade304> I don't think I would be qualified
22:06:45 <harlan> for what part?
22:06:59 <shade304> mentoring
22:07:39 <harlan> 'k. If you can point a student at "where to look" and can help them stay on-track that's about all that is needed.
22:11:55 <warlord> Ummm.. It's much more than that.
22:12:29 <harlan> Yes, it can be. I've done it for the past 2 years.
22:23:05 <shade304> re: decoding the format quickbooks can load custom reports from an external file, so it would be easy to use quickbooks to decode itself and output the information you need in a format of your own choosing. For instance "Export Vendor.qbr" could be downloaded and imported to create a csv file containing all the data, which could be massaged into somthing for importing into gnucash.
22:23:55 <harlan> OK, and there are differences between qb qns qb-pro.
22:24:24 <harlan> s/qns/and/
22:24:30 <shade304> but it is easy to pick off simple things, the whole file is another matter, there are a lot of stored data in the file that you can't see from the program itself..
22:25:10 <harlan> OK, time to grab some dinner...
22:25:21 <shade304> good to chat
22:25:22 <shade304> later
23:45:48 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk