2010-02-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:12:57 <kmels> i was trying to download gnucash for Mac OS X, but the link seems to be broken. Is there any other place where i can download it?
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01:22:09 <pentabass> I will title my question: Multiple "entities" or owners within a single Gnucash file. I want to know if it is possible to use a single Gnucash file, containing an account tree for the complete overview of my family finances, which are structured as follows: Nearly all the income for the family comes in via a corporation. This corporation pays tax, has assets and (deductible) expenses, takes on loans etc. That is the first entity, and
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01:23:38 <pentabass> That is the first entity, and if it was so simple, that would be dandy. However the corporation pays dividends / salary to the two parents, (and in future the 'adult' children as well) and with this money, on which each parent pays separately tax, the living (house mortgage, groceries, etc) and personal expenses are covered.
01:23:58 <pentabass> It is important that the corporation and the personal finances (which I will call the secondary entities - kind of like employees of the corporation) are not intermingled, even though there are lots of transactions between them (salaries, dividends, but also the odd purchase, that is made via a personal account, on behalf of the corporation, to be reimbursed later).
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01:24:23 <pentabass> To make things a little more muddled, out of convenience, the parents share a checking and visa account on the personal side, even though they pay separate tax. I hope it is clear what I mean with multiple 'entities' or 'owners', because when I read the documentation, it always seems written from the premise of a single person's finances.
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01:24:40 <pentabass> My question in a nutshell: Where do I find an example account tree (in a gnucash file or as a diagram) so that I have a fighting chance to set it up correctly, keeping future expansion in mind?
01:24:54 <pentabass> Or do I make multiple instances of gnucash files, one for the corporation, one for each taxpaying family member? How would these files communicate for the multiple transactions between them? Thanking you respectfully. Stefan
01:35:39 <mishehu_> this is all a matter of style and not of the capabilities of gnucash
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01:36:18 <mishehu> I have it set up so my accounting between corporate and personal accounts is in separate, self-contained gnucash files.
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01:36:31 <mishehu> that way it's cleaner from an accounting perspective.
01:37:04 <mishehu> ok guess he really didn't care about that then heh. and to think of how long of an explanation he wrote
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08:25:02 <warlord> kmels: what link were you trying?
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08:46:48 <JonathanEllis> I am operating three business activities. Is it best to have Accounts Receivable as a placeholder only with sub accounts for the business activities?
08:48:25 <warlord> JonathanEllis: are you sure you dont want three different gnucash files? Are these three businesses separate taxable entities?
08:51:13 <JonathanEllis> warlord: That's something I hadn't thought of. I am a sole trader with three different self employments. I use the same bank account and credit card (my personal ones) for all three businesses. I work from home so some things need to be split between all three activities. Although to be honest, so far with things like telephone bills I just assign to the main business and don't bother splitting it too much as I don't want to make too much work for m
08:52:07 <warlord> In that case, yes, you probably want seperate A/R, A/P, Income, and Expense accounts per biz.
08:52:12 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Up until now I have used a single AR account but with the invoice lines assigned to sub-accounts of income.
08:52:28 <JonathanEllis> So now I thought it might be better to split them
08:53:02 <JonathanEllis> But probably I will just move transactions for 2008/09 onwards and not go back too far into the past
08:54:07 <warlord> You cannot move A/R or A/P txns
08:55:11 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Please tell me to mind my own business if this question is impertinent: I won't be offended. I am curious as to the background and motivations of gnucash devs. Are you accounting pros who wanted something out of software that wasnt available or software people who needed a better way of accounting?
08:55:34 <warlord> for me, the latter
08:55:41 <warlord> (probably for most of us the latter)
08:56:05 <warlord> When I started consulting in 2001 there wasn't a good open source replacement for QB
08:56:15 <warlord> ... so I wrote one... that matched my needs.
08:56:31 <warlord> (starting with the open source replacement for Q)
08:57:05 <JonathanEllis> warlord: OK. I will not try to move them then and just leave them alone. From now on then, I will put new invoices in separate sub-accounts. Will it do any harm to make A/R a placeholder once all existing invoices are paid?
08:57:52 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Well you have my gratitude for your development efforts. Gnucash has been a lifesaver for me. I used to use Quicken until my data files became corrupted and unreadable
08:58:18 <warlord> No harm.
08:58:34 <warlord> Just keep in mind that aging reports and customer reports only work on a Single A/R account..
08:59:42 <JonathanEllis> Ah. In that case maybe I should continue with a single A/R account then and just continue with split income and expense accounts
09:02:19 <JonathanEllis> By the way, if I receive an invoice from a supplier and pay it immediately with my online bank, is there any point in recording it as a supplier invoice and payment? It seems more straightforward to just assign the bank payment to an expense account. I don't get many supplier invoices as I don't have credit accounts with suppliers: I buy most things on a credit or debit card.
09:06:50 <JonathanEllis> warlord: I have already put a couple of transactions into a subaccount of A/R. Bearing in mind the ageing and customer reports can I just delete the account hope the parent account inherits the transactions or should I unpost the invoices and repost? There are only 2 invoices and 2 payments
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09:07:34 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Oh, and the invoices have already been paid
09:08:00 <warlord> Nope... The internal pointers to the invoice will get broken
09:08:54 <JonathanEllis> so I should unpost and repost?
09:10:39 <warlord> You could do that.. unpost, repost, delete payment, re-apply payment..
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09:22:35 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Thanks.
09:23:56 <warlord> you're welcome
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12:03:49 <Sprocket> Hello
12:05:26 <Sprocket> i made a deposit to checking and was curious why the imbalance-USD account is negative is that a bad thing to have? Do i just need to balance it in sales or some other income account ?
12:08:35 <jsled> yes
12:09:05 <jsled> You shouldn't see Imbalance accounts being used; if you do, then the transaction is unbalanced, missing a proper split
12:09:45 <Sprocket> how would i denote an investment of cash then ?
12:10:22 <jsled> "investment" in what respect?
12:10:39 <Sprocket> i take money that i personally make at my job
12:10:49 <Sprocket> and invest it into my small business
12:13:58 <jsled> hrm. quickly looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_(finance) … it looks like it'd be Owner Equity, treated as a Liability.
12:14:22 <jsled> note that IANAA, so you should talk to an Accountant if there are legal ramifications, here.
12:14:36 <Sprocket> ok
12:14:48 <Sprocket> i just didnt have a Owner Equity account
12:14:52 <Sprocket> i will just have to add it then
12:14:59 <Sprocket> thanks jsled
12:22:13 <JonathanEllis> How would I write off an invoice to Expenses:Irrecoverable debts?
12:22:25 <JonathanEllis> An unpaid invoice!
12:28:32 <warlord> JonathanEllis: Process Payment as normal, then change the payment txn so it goes to Expenses:Writeoffs instead of Assets:Checking
12:30:36 <JonathanEllis> warlord: Can I not set the payment to go into Expenses:Writeoffs in the first place? Or should I charge it to Assetts:Bad debts and then make a balancing transaction from Assetts:Bad debts to Expenses:Bad debts written off?
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12:31:48 <warlord> No, you cannot set it to an expense account directly.
12:31:59 <warlord> You COULD do it that way, but there's really no point.
12:32:34 <JonathanEllis> Is it more syntactically correct or more easy to understand doing it the way I have mentioned?
12:32:50 <warlord> neither
12:32:57 <JonathanEllis> OK thanks
12:35:26 <warlord> NP
12:36:47 <JonathanEllis> Oh. Does it have to go to Assetts:Some account or can the payment go to a top level account like a Suspense Account?
12:43:04 <warlord> It has to go to an Asset account. Doesn't matter where the asset lives.
12:43:19 <JonathanEllis> thanks
12:53:12 <JonathanEllis> I hire learning materials to my clients (I am a driving instructor). I charge them a £10 hire fee plus a returnable deposit of £15. So far I have just been recording the whole amount to Income:Turnover and then making a deduction from Income:Turnover when I return the money. Would it make more sense to transfer the hire fee to Income:Turnover and the deposit to Assetts:Deposits?
12:53:39 <JonathanEllis> Sorry that should be Assetts: Deposits
12:56:32 <JonathanEllis> Or perhaps it should be Liabilities: Client Moneys
12:57:35 <JonathanEllis> But is there an easy way to track who I am holding a deposit for?
12:59:36 <JonathanEllis> Typically a customer will hold onto the learning materials for several months, sometimes longer than a year so relying on my memory is not a good idea
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13:05:26 <pentabass> Thanks to mishehu for your answer to my question last night. I did not want to seem disinterested, however I got disconnected. I read your reply in the online archives.
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13:25:41 <pentabass> So I guess my question really becomes: if you set up separate gnucash files for separate 'entities' (corporation, taxpaying family members) - how do you link or track the transactions between the entities?
13:38:44 <warlord> pentabass: The same way you track a transaction from your employer to yourself -- transactions in each book.
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14:21:22 <ftjjk> Is there a pre-populated data file of transactions that can be used to explore gnucash
14:24:27 <ftjjk> our local Northwest Linux Fest is coming up in April and I was thinking about doing a presentation/workshop to show people, new to linux, this program
14:24:35 <warlord> ftjjk: there are some test files in the source tree
14:24:58 <warlord> I doubt anyone has a file with hundreds of txns available, tho
14:26:50 <ftjjk> well, I have to show my ignorance here but, "source tree"?
14:27:23 <ftjjk> I have till april maybe I can create one and after the fest I can send it to gnucash for others
14:28:08 <ftjjk> to use
14:29:03 <warlord> you say you're a linux user and have no idea what "sources" are?
14:29:15 <warlord> (I'd expect that from a windows user)
14:32:10 <ftjjk> :) i became a linux user in mid 2009 and am eager to learn
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14:32:29 <ftjjk> Ive been a windows user since 1988
14:33:02 <ftjjk> I now have 2 windows machine 3 linux machines and a freenas server
14:33:13 <ftjjk> so Im trying :)
14:35:19 <warlord> ah. ok.
14:35:26 <warlord> google "source tree"
14:36:54 <jsled> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_code
14:37:31 <jsled> "source tree" is just a (directory) tree of source code, and other related files, &c. required to develop, test and build the software
14:37:40 <jsled> usually in a revision control system.
14:39:35 <ftjjk> they are all the files before they are put together in a configured manner and made into a bootable image (ie. iso)?
14:39:51 <ftjjk> or something like that?
14:40:15 <jsled> something like that. :) For a single application like gnucash, it's not a bootable iso, so much as the sources just for that application.
14:40:50 <jsled> Which will eventually result in an executable (with a collection of libraries, image resources, documentation, &c.)
14:41:52 <ftjjk> I get that
14:41:54 <ftjjk> thanks
14:42:09 <ftjjk> I am now browsing the source files on the website
14:43:13 <jsled> ftjjk: look in … doc/examples/
14:43:27 <jsled> unfortunately, those are all really old or in other formats (like QIF)
14:44:19 <jsled> Oh, there might be *one* :( src/import-export/qif-io-core/test/qiftest.gnc
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14:51:04 <mib_quz1zu> hello
14:51:04 <ftjjk> hmm I may not be looking at the same area but I did find gnc_Sample_QIF.qif under svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash-docs/trunk/guide/C
14:51:13 <mib_quz1zu> i m new on gnu cach
14:51:24 <mib_quz1zu> and i m french can u have a french channel please?
14:51:57 <mib_quz1zu> because i haeve a litlle problem, how add a credit on gnucach?
14:52:37 <jsled> ftjjk: gnucash-docs is the docs package. the sources are in just "gnucash"
14:52:40 <jsled> there is no french channel.
14:53:01 <mib_quz1zu> i have taken 7 500,00 EUR with 5,000% TEG how add it on gnuchach please?
14:53:43 <jsled> "TEG"?
14:54:05 <mib_quz1zu> my debt
14:54:06 <jsled> this is €7500 you owe someone?
14:54:15 <mib_quz1zu> for the banque interest
14:54:21 <mib_quz1zu> yes
14:55:10 <jsled> And the money was deposited into a bank account for you?
14:55:49 <mib_quz1zu> no, now i payed evry month the credit
14:56:10 <mib_quz1zu> so €199.95 by month
14:56:19 <jsled> okay, so you have spent the money in the past, or something?
14:56:19 <mib_quz1zu> to paid this sum for the banque
14:56:34 <jsled> Or is it like a credit card?
14:56:43 <jsled> I suppose it doesn't really matter.
14:57:13 <jsled> This is a Liability for you, so create a Liability account (which could be a Credit Card-type or Loan-type account, whatever's appropriate)
14:57:30 <jsled> Make the Opening Balance transaction against Equity:Opening Balances.
14:57:45 <mib_quz1zu> yes so when i mstudent i take a credit to the bank €7500 to pais my studies, so now i paid evry month €199
14:58:33 <jsled> The interest rate and interest vs. principal payment fraction is not handled very well by gnucash; you'll need to handle it yourself.
14:58:42 <mib_quz1zu> well i need the french work to see it on my gnuchach
14:58:52 <mib_quz1zu> arg
14:58:59 <mib_quz1zu> how do this
14:59:19 <jsled> But those € 199/mo payments would be from your Asset accounts, split between the Liability accounts (for the principal) and an Expense account (for the interest)
15:01:33 <mib_quz1zu> ok
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15:01:48 <ftjjk> jsled: I found the gnc file you were pointing me towards, thanks. Its pretty small though so I may end up creating a couple of files myself
15:02:15 <ftjjk> I think I would like to create a file for personal home user type transactions and a small business
15:02:43 <ftjjk> some of my friends may have dummy files from quicken that I could import too. I will look into this
15:02:50 <warlord> ftjjk: Why not just File -> New -> New File and use one of the default hierarchies... and then add some basic txns?
15:04:44 <ftjjk> thats what I will do...I was just hoping there was a data set already created
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15:13:15 <mib_quz1zu> jsked i don't know how count the interest for the bank
15:15:00 <warlord> ftjjk: once you create one you could donate it...
15:15:43 <ftjjk> absolutely, I have already started creating it and plan to have about three to four years of data
15:16:00 <ftjjk> I will also donate any presentation slides as well
15:16:46 <mib_quz1zu> well thanks jsled for this explanation
15:17:01 <mib_quz1zu> and u don't have a french communities of gnucach
15:17:02 <mib_quz1zu> ??
15:17:36 <jsled> mib_quz1zu: you might try the gnucash-fr mailing list
15:17:53 <jsled> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-fr
15:18:25 <jsled> and check the archives in particular; this is pretty basic setup stuff, so it might already be answered.
15:19:33 <mib_quz1zu> oki thnaks
15:20:45 <kimmo> jsled, warlord, was there a way to get the "Present" column on the accounts tab show the present subtotal (Just like the Total column)?
15:21:16 <mib_quz1zu> well good nhgt
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15:24:14 <warlord> kimmo: not without a code change.
15:25:33 <kimmo> ok tks
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16:25:39 <warlord> T-7days until server move date.
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21:42:34 <pentabass> warlord-afk: Thank you for your answer earlier today. I guess I was hoping that a corporation and it's employees (each getting their own 'book') could be somehow together in one file, so that interactions between them could be followed easier. (sorry for my random quitting - my irc client does not play very nice, I guess thats what you might get if you choose the beta version).
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23:15:41 <Guest37550> What does "QSF" refer to in GnuCash?
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23:20:28 <Guest37550> I have never used IRC before now. How long do I wait for a response?
23:21:44 <Guest37550> I am using gnuCash 2.2.9 for my personal finances.
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23:34:05 <Guest37550> "QSF" is an abreviation for what in gnucash?
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23:42:44 <Guest37550> what is QSF?
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