2010-01-29 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:58:51 <tedius> Hello
06:59:12 <tedius> I've just started using gnucash and really like it
06:59:16 <tedius> but I need some help
07:00:27 <kimmo> go ahead, ask your question
07:01:10 <tedius> I want to set up a scheduled task that will add 1% interest every month. Is there a way that I can do that?
07:02:21 <tedius> I know how to set a scheduled task up. I just don't know if there is a formula that I can use to add 1%?
07:02:40 <kimmo> Don't know about that
07:04:11 <tedius> In the template transaction tab I need to set up the debit and credit formulas. I've seen that the loans druid sets these up using a function called pmt()
07:04:35 <tedius> But are there any other functions variables that I can use.
07:04:48 <tedius> and where can I find documentation on the pmt() function?
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07:25:41 <BenB> is there a way to store a report with settings (when I made changes to the settings, like set of accounts included etc.)?
07:26:08 <BenB> at the moment, I just keep the tabs open, but generating the reports takes 20s or so, so gnucash startup is very slow (1-2 minutes)
07:29:25 <tedius> When setting up a scheduled transaction is there a way of using the current balance in the debit/credit formula?
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07:37:02 <kimmo> Ben: In the report options dialogue, change the report name, and use the "Add report" button on the toolbar
07:37:20 <kimmo> that'll save your options in the "Custom reports" menu, available after next restart
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08:01:21 <BenB> kimmo: cool, sounds like what I need.
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08:04:30 <BenB> indeed, I need to change the name (twice - I already had a custom name, and the report was a saved tab), for the "add report" button to be enabled.
08:06:41 <BenB> yes, after doing that *and* restarting gnucash, they appear in the reports menu.
08:06:44 <BenB> kimmo: thanks!
08:07:27 <BenB> kimmo: other question: gnucash is fairly slow in generating the reports. that may be because I have my accounts in gnucash since 10 years.
08:08:05 <BenB> is there a way to speed things up without losing functionality (e.g. seeing the old statements in the accounts, or generating long-term reports)?
08:09:34 <BenB> that reports saving is incredibly useful already, though.
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08:16:55 <warlord> BenB: unfortunately most of the slowness is report algorithm/implementation.
08:17:25 <warlord> tedius: no, there is no "get account balance as of date" function you can use in order to compute "1% of current balance" in an SX.
08:17:41 <warlord> As for the docs on pmt(), it's a standard financial function. Google for it.
08:17:43 <BenB> warlord: nothing to do with absolute number of statements? (the report is only about the last year)
08:17:54 <warlord> they are pmt(), ppmt(), ipmt(), ....
08:17:58 <warlord> look in fin.scm
08:18:36 <warlord> BenB: well, the algorithms are generally O(n) (or worse) in the total number of transactions in your datafile.
08:18:44 <BenB> warlord: BTW: That'd be a nice function: calculate interest for a certain account, time period and interest rate.
08:20:12 <BenB> warlord: I see... for reports, would be better to first select the statements (equivalent of SQL SELECT), and then run the algo only on them.
08:25:44 <warlord> BenB: it would be, except that gnucash isn't a DB app
08:26:27 <BenB> I see... wasn't there an effort to change gnucash to a DB storage backend?
08:26:58 <BenB> I vaguely remember something like that.
08:32:22 <warlord> Yes, there was an effort to give give gnucash a database storage backend. That does not make gnucash a db app
08:32:45 <warlord> Gnucash still loads all its data into ram and works on it from there, regardless of how the data is stored.
08:33:05 <warlord> the (current) benefit of the db backend is instantaneous commits
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10:58:19 <kimmo> BenB, I used the same datafile for 8 years (Ever since we switched to euro), and only switched to a new datafile as I did a complete redesign of the account tree
10:58:40 <kimmo> but I do admit, some of the reports were slow as a snail
10:59:31 <kimmo> for business uses however, I have a single file for a fiscal year, since I have to do the year end crap anyway, so it's easy to just close up and start over
11:04:14 <warlord> I use the same process for both personal and biz -- in biz you cannot easily copy customer/vendor information
11:05:41 <kimmo> I don't have any of that stuff in gnucash
11:06:19 <kimmo> and I send out 1-3 invoices per month so it's no biggie
11:06:44 <kimmo> usually it's just updating the number of hours, the invoice number, and exporting to pdf from oo.o
11:21:53 <warlord> How do you send out invoices if you dont have customers?
11:43:54 <kimmo> I have customers, just not in gnucash ;)
11:44:08 <warlord> So you dont use the gnucash biz features.
11:44:40 <kimmo> nope
11:44:46 <kimmo> accounting only
11:44:51 <warlord> ok
11:45:23 <kimmo> I have a process that's worked fine ever since I started conslutting, no point in changing what works
11:45:35 <kimmo> although if my customers realized that, I'd be out of work
11:46:51 <warlord> LOL
11:47:06 <kimmo> truth be told however, I hadn't even realized there would be such functionality in gnucash
11:47:19 <kimmo> I've been using the same features that were present in 1.4
11:48:05 <warlord> The biz features were first added in 1.8
11:48:14 <warlord> (in 2001)
11:48:49 <kimmo> I still findly think back to 1.4 where you had a line graph for account balance over time
11:48:52 <kimmo> fondly
11:49:04 <warlord> Yeah, well... Guppi was cool.
11:49:26 <kimmo> but seriously, a recent study funded by local government found out that IT produced no savings whatsoever in health care
11:49:34 <kimmo> I could have told them that about 10 years ago
11:50:09 <warlord> I think it depends what you mean by "IT produced no savings ... in health care"
11:50:20 <kimmo> yeah I guess
11:50:55 <kimmo> mostly it was about electronic patient records versus paper, and the cost of systems + maintenance was far greater than the cost of manual labor
11:51:32 <warlord> people are cheap?
11:52:23 <kimmo> apparently it takes the nurses about as long to struggle with the computer as it took them to find the records from files
11:53:11 <warlord> Well, it also depends on the technologies in use. I think IT COULD improve productivity, if applied correctly. But more likely it's NOT applied correctly.
11:53:11 <kimmo> plus with electronic records, you were supposedly able to go anywhere and they'd have the info, but privacy advocates (me included) shouted so loud that they didn't implement the sharing of records
11:53:17 <kimmo> yeah
11:53:27 <kimmo> I tend to think that way, too
11:53:35 <warlord> (I have a friend who's a nurse and saw him fail to use the technology because the technology sucked hairy monkey balls)
11:54:04 <kimmo> I've suggested to a number of healthcare bigshots here that they'd stop using Windows
11:54:13 <warlord> I wish I could carry a USB Dongle that had my records. So *i* owned the data. I could hand it to my doctor, who would use and update the dongle, and then give it back to me.
11:54:28 <warlord> My friends problem was a citrix-like solution.l
11:54:47 <kimmo> so you want not only yourself, but also your data, to contract virii when going to the doctor's? ;)
11:55:03 <warlord> Heh.
11:55:34 <kimmo> they employ a Network Connect (or something like that) to VPN to a "secure" "central" repository, which isn't secure, or central, and is not exactly reliable
11:55:39 <kimmo> anyway gotta go
11:56:19 <warlord> later
11:56:31 <warlord> And yes, that's what happens, and of course if the VPN fails....
12:04:08 <BenB> warlord: the e-health-card in germany that they discuss is a smartcard which is basically acting as storage, i.e. like your USB dongle idea.
12:04:21 <BenB> in fact, they were throwing around ideas of using USB dongles.
12:04:58 <BenB> the project is going since years and not going anywhere, because the problems are more involved: if it's really a USB dongle, the doctor can read everything on it, right?
12:05:13 <BenB> if it's encrypted, what do you do when an old lady forgets the password?
12:05:19 <BenB> (happens all the time.)
12:06:08 <BenB> that's not even starting with stuff like: if I use the dongle on the doctor's equipment, how can I be sure that there's no key logger getting my password?
12:07:22 <BenB> how does the doctor share information with the parmacy shop? now is that secured? is there a central database?
12:07:32 <BenB> how holds the SSL CA keys?
12:07:40 <BenB> s/how/who/
12:22:14 <warlord> I know.. Lots of questions. Few answers.
12:22:38 <warlord> Still, just unencrypted USB that I carry around would be better than what we have now.
12:22:56 <warlord> It means all my medical history is with me at all times.
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12:34:17 <BenB> who is "we" (USA?) and what do you have?
12:34:33 <BenB> US has always been.... deficient with privacy protection.
12:34:52 <BenB> phone records, social security number nonsense etc.
12:36:46 <warlord> "we" == general healthcare records stored on paper with the docs
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13:05:39 <BenB> oh... paper isn't a problem (at least here in Germany), apart from physical access of course.
13:05:53 <BenB> each doctor has his own records. he transfers docs only with my permission.
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13:08:44 <cristiklein> warlord: hi, could you look over this please https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608436
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13:16:24 <warlord> cristiklein: thanks. I'll try to take a look at the patch soon. You can also send mail to -devel about it.
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16:18:05 <JackDeth> I have a question about this product.
16:19:31 <kimmo> shoot
16:21:31 <cristiklein> kimmo: perhaps he only wanted to highlight the fact that he had a question, without really wanting an answer :)
16:22:09 <kimmo> that's always an option
16:22:33 <kimmo> although in my 20 years of irc, I've finally learned to not get mad at metaquestions
16:22:47 <kimmo> perl -le 'print (19200-1920.09)'
16:22:50 <kimmo> err
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16:29:08 <kimmo> maybe he wasn't interested in answers
16:29:30 <warlord> Maybe he just wanted to hear us talk about him... Or make us guess his question?
16:29:38 <kimmo> how can my scheme skillz be so rusty
16:29:48 <kimmo> maybe it's the beer?
16:30:32 <kimmo> any dirty-hack ways to make an account or a number of accounts be children of 2 parents?
16:32:30 <kimmo> hmm, this is new, I'm getting unsolicited email to an address I have never used, to a <firstname>.<lastname>@domain.fi
16:32:43 <kimmo> this is the first I've seen anyone use the whois service to send spam
16:36:26 <warlord> No, an account may not have multiple parents.
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16:37:19 <JackDeth> Sorry. I switched IRC clients due to problems.
16:37:21 <kimmo> hrm
16:37:35 <JackDeth> I was wondering if your product supports sending invoices by email?
16:37:46 <kimmo> that's okay. For future reference, just ask your question, it's always OK to ask topic-related questions
16:38:04 <kimmo> I'll let warlord answer that
16:38:09 <JackDeth> I use a PayPal account as my primary business account and wanted to invoice clients by email instead of mailing. I wanted to include a link in the email that goes back to PayPal for payments.
16:38:14 <JackDeth> Ok. Thanks.
16:39:48 <kimmo> that's something I can't answer, I send all my invoices as pdf exports from openoffice.org, I send 1-3 a month so I never bothered to learn a new way to send them
16:40:27 <kimmo> plus of course being in Finland, I'm sure there would have been some additional configuring to do with all the VAT crap etc
16:40:36 <JackDeth> I've been invoicing using the Paypal tools, but I have enough clients now that it's getting to be a pain the butt every month having to create a new invoice for each client and sending it manually.
16:41:27 <JackDeth> Was using MS Money but it's discontinued. Thought of using Quickbooks but it's too complicated.
16:41:29 <JackDeth> :-P
16:41:32 <kimmo> how many invoices do you send per month?
16:42:33 <JackDeth> About 15-20 or so and growing.
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16:44:19 <JackDeth> I've been trying to research open source alternatives and ran across this product online. I want something that I can use on my Ubuntu laptop so I can get the billing off my Windows workstation.
16:44:21 <kimmo> different clients, or the same ones repeating?
16:45:04 <JackDeth> Both. I offer a variety of services. Website developement (one time bills), photography (one time bills) and web hosting services (recurring monthly bills).
16:46:18 <kimmo> well at least it's similar kinds of invoices; I send 1-3 a month, and I've been doing them with an openoffice.org calc template, just sending pdf's
16:46:32 <warlord> JackDeth: There is no direct hook to email an invoice, but you can always print it to a PDF and then email the PDF.
16:46:36 <kimmo> but if I was doing 10+, I'd probably think of something else
16:46:41 <JackDeth> Yeah. I'm trying to shy away from that. It takes too much time away from my real work.
16:46:46 <JackDeth> I'm a sole proprietor.
16:47:12 <kimmo> but as it is now, most of my customers want itemized billing, so I've built my hours reporting system to work with the calc sheets
16:47:28 <kimmo> I run a 1 man LLC
16:47:28 <JackDeth> Ok. Thanks for your help. I just got a call and have to leave the office now. If you have further suggestions, just leave them here and I will read it when I get back.... afk
16:47:53 <kimmo> (actually, 4 of them 1 man LLC's)
16:50:52 <kimmo> soo, how much product loyalty is requires for @? ;)
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19:51:30 <pianoman> I just installed this program on Windows Vista and absolutely love it. However, it puts some folders for use with gnu cash in my account's folder. Is there a way to change the default location to something else?
19:51:46 <jsled> which folders are you referring to?
19:52:27 <pianoman> .gconf, .gconfd, .gnome2, .gnome2_private, .gnucash, .banking
19:52:35 <jsled> no, I don't believe so.
19:52:57 <jsled> you might see if changing … er, what is it … XDG_ something will do it.
19:53:28 <pianoman> Already tried that. Thanks for your help! I'll just learn to live with it. It ain't that big a deal
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20:03:22 <lordmetroid> I just did my first month of accounting, I had to respecify all expenses to show both the credit and debit but GnuCash Rocks!
20:06:11 <jsled> lordmetroid: what do you mean by "respecify"?
20:06:38 <lordmetroid> At first I just entered all my verifications into the expenses account
20:06:54 <lordmetroid> But then when I tried to enter some income verifications that didn't work all that well
20:07:16 <lordmetroid> I figured out that I had to use a checking account as a means of transfer
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