2010-01-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:55:21 <tim1> can bayesian matching be activated for qif import (2.2.9)?
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10:48:15 <cubie> Hi guys, I'm trying to figure out how to offset the loan payments I've made from my current account (assets) against my outstanding loan amounts (liabilities), can anybody point me in the right direction? I'm no accountant and a little bit confused!
10:50:34 <jsled> it's normal transaction.
10:50:40 <jsled> probably with 3 splits
10:51:00 <jsled> Assets:Whatever, Liabilities:Loan, Expenses:Interest
10:51:57 <jsled> as with most transactions, it'll probably be easiest to think about if you enter it from the Asset account.
10:52:31 <jsled> (cause you can just choose whatever the correct column by either the column label or the effect on balanace, and use the other column for the other two so it balances.
10:52:32 <jsled> )
10:53:03 <cubie> ah okay, yeah. I've done that but its increasing the debt in my liabilities account, should I just put a minus sign on the correct split row?
10:53:09 <jsled> no
10:53:56 <jsled> you should never need to use '-' on split values.
10:54:15 <jsled> if you screenshot the expanded split, it might be obvious to me.
10:54:40 <cubie> okay 2 sec
10:54:50 <jsled> But if you have the asset split correctly reducing your asset account balance, and the liabilities (and expenses) split in the other column, then it should work out, so long as all the account types are correct.
10:55:17 <jsled> Also, if you can get the account tree (including the liability account) in the sshot, that might be useful, too.
11:01:22 <cubie> sorry, web space being a pain
11:02:11 <cubie> http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/843/gnucash.gif
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11:05:02 <jsled> cubie: Ah.
11:05:15 <jsled> by default GnuCash sign-inverts liabilities accounts.
11:05:28 <jsled> So, if you have an oustanding liability, it will show up as positive.
11:05:53 <jsled> And thus paying it down will reduce the amount.
11:06:16 <jsled> Until 0, where you have no liability.
11:06:29 <jsled> is there an opening balance on the Liability account for how much you owe?
11:06:39 <cubie> ah ok, so I just need to swap around my liability figures?
11:06:47 <cubie> so they're positive
11:07:12 <jsled> well, you can change that setting, but it's the default for a reason.
11:07:23 <cubie> ah ok
11:07:38 <jsled> but, better, if you add the appopriate opening balance, then it'll appear correct.
11:08:12 <cubie> ah right
11:08:25 <cubie> It doesn't really have an opening balance, because its not really a loan
11:08:29 <cubie> they're university charges
11:08:39 <cubie> maybe they shouldnt be in liabilities at all?
11:08:47 <jsled> It's just a normal Expense, then?
11:08:53 <jsled> how does it work?
11:09:31 <jsled> It's either a normal expense, or they're extending you credit, in which case the transaction would be more something like {Liabilities:Edu, Expenses:Edu}, with future {Assets,Liabilities:Edu} to pay down the credit.
11:10:09 <cubie> I get invoiced once a term (3 terms) for a 1/3rd my accom and tuition fees
11:10:23 <cubie> and they give me a certian period of time to pay the invoice
11:11:07 <cubie> so they are extending me credit?
11:11:09 <jsled> Sounds just like an Expense, then.
11:11:21 <cubie> ah right, thats an easier way to do it then!
11:12:44 <cubie> I'll delete the Liabilities:Edu account and let it come out of Expenses:Edu
11:13:07 <cubie> however, then I won't be able to see how much is outstanding, just how much I have paid?
11:13:16 <jsled> correct.
11:13:43 <cubie> okay, thanks :)
11:13:44 <jsled> If you want to see/think of it as a loan, then just add the Opening Balance for the full 3x amount
11:13:50 <kimmo> cubie is correct in that Education is a Liability ;)
11:13:55 <jsled> lol
11:13:58 <cubie> heh
11:15:18 <kimmo> jsled, is there a simpler way to enter repeating loan payment splits than enter-alt+-split-changeamounts-repeat?
11:15:25 <cubie> If I have a liabilities account with 2000 outstanding, would its balance on the accounts screen show as +2000 ?
11:15:52 <jsled> cubie: yes, so long as that preference I was talking about is still set
11:16:08 <jsled> kimmo: the mortgage/loan druid, but it's … twitchy
11:16:09 <cubie> okay, I understand both options now. I'll have a ponder about it ;)
11:16:37 <jsled> kimmo: you could create a one-off scheduled transaction to backfill the values; if you use a variable it'll prompt you for all the amounts.
11:17:30 <kimmo> jsled, in the account register, the split account pulldown is ordered alphabetically. Is there a way to sort it by account code instead, or force to use whatever sorting is used on the accounts tab?
11:17:35 <kimmo> oo I never thought of that
11:17:40 <jsled> I don't believe so, no.
11:18:31 <kimmo> any way to exclude an account from being in the autocomplete? I get all cranky when I hit "E" and I get Equity as first option instead of Expenses...
11:18:46 <jsled> I don't believe so, no.
11:19:04 <kimmo> hrm
11:19:14 <jsled> I trained myself to "ex"
11:19:36 <kimmo> I renamed it _Equity
11:19:43 <jsled> nice
11:19:54 <jsled> I suppose that's the trick for the other sorting, too.
11:20:00 <jsled> (prefix by account code)
11:20:04 <jsled> pita, though
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11:21:15 <kimmo> that's a little sketchy, as for my business use I use a standardized set of accounts so that I can use the receipts from local IRS and pals as-is so I'd rather not change the naming to include the account codes
11:22:13 <kimmo> and as far as the personal accounting goes, the ordering doesn't really matter since there aren't that many different kinds of transactions per account for me to actually need proper sorting
11:24:13 <cubie> I decided to count the debt as a liability and reversed the signs on the transactions. All of my account figures are correct, with the exception of my liabilities transactions being in Imbalance GBP?!
11:25:51 <jsled> "reversed the signs"?
11:26:16 <jsled> If you have transactions in Imbalance-GBP, then one of the transactions splits isn't pointing at an account.
11:26:31 <cubie> I edited my liabilities account so the debt shows as +2000, not -2000
11:26:51 <jsled> (well, technically, it is: the Imbalance-GBP account. But that account only exists to make the double-entry invariants work)
11:26:53 <jsled> uh.
11:27:08 <jsled> how did you do that?
11:27:46 <jsled> Ah, I think I might know… did you create that initial Opening Balance transaction to establish the total amount you owe?
11:28:03 <jsled> And that transaction has one split against Liabilities:Edu, of course … and the other split against Imbalance-GBP?
11:28:13 <jsled> The Imbalance-GBP split should be against Equity:Opening Balances, instead.
11:28:37 <cubie> ah ok
11:28:41 <cubie> no there was no opening balance
11:28:56 <cubie> I'll set it to that :)
11:29:18 <jsled> you should never need to "reverse the sign" or "use -" or anything like that, fwiw.
11:30:04 <kimmo> '-' is handy in that gnucash readily evaluates arithmetic, but other than that it's useless
11:30:07 <jsled> right.
11:30:40 <jsled> I should say, you should never need to use a negative value in a credit or debit cell.
11:32:30 <cubie> right
11:32:37 <cubie> thanks for your advice, all working now
11:32:56 <kimmo> aha, managed to turn Education into an Asset? ;)
11:33:13 <cubie> :P
11:34:07 <cubie> I figured using an accounting package now would set me on a good trend for life
11:34:09 <kimmo> ah, I should enter my payroll info
11:34:21 <kimmo> accounting is never bad
11:34:39 <kimmo> most of my friends were amazed at the amont I drank during college
11:34:52 <kimmo> but I figure most of them quaffed a wee bit more, too, just didn't realize it
11:35:39 <cubie> haha yeah my {Expenses:Entertainment:Drinking} account has a fair amount go through it =/
11:36:14 <kimmo> I've been filing a lot of things under Expenses:Useless
11:36:20 <kimmo> drinking among others
11:36:27 <cubie> ;)
11:36:36 <cubie> gotta go, later
11:36:41 <kimmo> Expenses:Entertainment contains not-so-harmful forms of uselessness
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11:58:43 <jimcooncat> If I have a gnucash file on a central server, can I edit while others have read-only access?
11:58:48 <jsled> no
11:59:04 <jsled> the lock file will explicitly disallow others; there's no notion of read-only ness.
12:02:00 <jimcooncat> thanks jsled.
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12:56:55 <cubie> if you guys loan money to a friend, would you put the transaction in an A/R account?
13:04:33 <warlord> I wouldn't. I'd just use a regular Asset.
13:04:57 <cubie> with a negative value?
13:09:24 <cubie> nvm :)
13:15:08 <warlord> :)
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17:40:51 <andi5> hm... is there any reason to treat transaction numbers as of decimal or octal base (if starts with 0) ... i cannot imagine one (cf. bug #607246) and would make it decimal only
17:41:15 <warlord> Umm... Yeah, it should be decimal only.
17:41:38 <andi5> great, thanks
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17:47:54 <warlord> anytime!
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18:02:36 <kimmo> hey derek, you still live around bahstan area?
18:03:30 <warlord> Unfortunately no.. I moved to ATL. Although my stuff is still up there. I'll be moving the servers in Feb.
18:03:43 <kimmo> mmkay
18:04:00 <kimmo> not aplharetta I hope
18:04:04 <kimmo> alpharetta
18:05:28 <warlord> LOL. No. Currently in Midtown
18:05:55 <kimmo> cool
18:07:26 <kimmo> I got so much stuff to do atm I can't get any unpaid coding done without neglecting the kids and the wife, but next time I'll be coming to ATL I'll make sure to get you some goodies from .fi
18:08:24 <warlord> COOL!!! Just let me know.
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18:08:32 <kimmo> I will
18:08:44 <kimmo> you like salted licorice?
18:08:52 <warlord> Never tried it
18:09:02 <kimmo> you're in for a treat then
18:09:46 <kimmo> might actually get a mule for those, a friend of mine moved to ATL some 15 years ago, works at emory and comes to .fi for summer vacation every year
18:12:07 <warlord> NICE
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18:12:56 <kimmo> you can consider it like my license payment or something ;)
18:14:34 <andi5> i have always gpl means codeware: to use it after a certain period of time you must contribute patches...
18:14:37 <andi5> +thought
18:15:02 <warlord> :P:
18:15:03 <warlord> LOL
18:15:16 <kimmo> me too, but every time I pick up patching, you guys have advanced the thingy by 0.2
18:15:30 <andi5> sorry for that ;-)
18:15:40 <kimmo> I so wish I could have that 1.4 era line graph on account balance over time back
18:15:43 <kimmo> heh
18:16:20 <kimmo> how about a "save in 1.4 format" feature? I still have a 1.4.2 installation on the old laptop
18:16:43 <jsled> warlord: oh, you did?
18:16:54 <warlord> jsled: yes
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18:17:34 <warlord> LOL! 1.4? That's like .... so last century.
18:17:37 <andi5> kimmo: let me see... there has been 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2 and someday (this year?) there will be 2.4.... so why not? :)
18:17:52 <kimmo> derek, indeed. I've been a gnucash user since 1997
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18:18:58 <kimmo> 20.4.1997 to be exact, is the first "Opening balance" transaction
18:21:02 <kimmo> then the stupid euro came along in 2002 and I had to close books and start a new datafile
18:21:48 <kimmo> s,997,999,
18:21:51 <kimmo> I can't type
18:22:13 <andi5> yeah, every 10-15 years there is a new currency, just to sell new accounting software!
18:22:26 <kimmo> hehe
18:22:56 <andi5> kimmo: see, the DEM lasted from 1990 (i think, was too young) until 2002...
18:23:20 <kimmo> 1990? I thought DEM was around from like 1900?
18:23:36 <andi5> kimmo: well, there were two currencies, right?
18:23:44 <aba> kimmo: in western germany from 1949 on, from eastern from 1990 on.
18:23:51 <kimmo> ah
18:24:08 <kimmo> what did the germans use before '49?
18:24:10 <aba> however, until 1948/9 there was the Deutsche Reichsmark.
18:24:14 <kimmo> ah
18:24:22 <kimmo> marks all the same
18:24:32 <aba> Since ~1870 or so it was all *Mark*.
18:24:41 <andi5> well, it is not the european mark
18:24:46 <kimmo> the reichsmark that you had to wheelbarrow to the store to get a loaf of bread
18:24:51 <aba> But Reichsmark, Rentenmark, Deutsche mark, ...
18:24:59 <aba> kimmo: only at the end.
18:25:16 <aba> like always when a country looses a war, the money isn't good either.
18:26:08 <kimmo> my grandfather's estate had a few like 100 million marks bills that were not worth the paper they were printed on
18:26:37 <kimmo> might have been a million, or a trillion, but a shitload of zeroes anyway :D
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18:27:15 <andi5> i suppose paper was just too expensive these days :)
18:27:20 <aba> as I said, only at the end. They tried to finance war by printing money. Of course, these days nobody just prints money ...
18:27:48 <kimmo> yeah, these days you use fractional reserve banking, and money simply appears out of nowhere
18:28:13 <andi5> yeah, linden dollars becoming real
18:29:02 <jsled> that's recently the case in south korea, I believe.
18:29:07 <aba> (e.g. in 1913, one US-$ was about 4 Reichsmark)
18:29:13 <kimmo> I was reading Snowball, the Warren Buffet biography the other day, and found out that there are still banks in the US that were chartered before the US Treasury assumed monopoly in printing legal US tender, and can actually print their own money
18:29:49 <jsled> http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&cf=all&ncl=dR7dCcGktnfHxmMi7nsHttELIaQ5M
18:30:06 <andi5> jsled: that link does not work for me
18:30:15 <aba> kimmo: there are UK-banks which can print money. But printed money isn't that important anymore these days.
18:31:15 <kimmo> aba, I would not mind having a was of twenties with my picture on them
18:31:17 <kimmo> wad
18:31:41 <kimmo> jsled, good luck working out an exchange rate for taxation ;)
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19:13:30 <websitedesign> need web design check out www.mondographics.com
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19:18:31 <warlord> andi5: I thought we were waiting until after 2.4.0 before switching to glade-3?
19:18:58 <andi5> hm... did not know about that.... cstim marked the patch as accept-commit-now in bugzilla
19:20:26 <andi5> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2010-January/027181.html and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607517
19:20:45 <andi5> i guess i will wait with the following patch until this issue is resolved....
19:20:50 <andi5> and since i am tired anyway ;-)
19:24:18 <andi5> this is funny since cstim himself seems to have asked about one month ago :)
19:25:08 <andi5> ok, see you next week, i suppose
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20:28:09 <cubie> does anybody know if I can use regex's to automatically assign imported transaction descriptions to an account?
20:28:14 <jsled> no
20:28:32 <cubie> ah right
20:28:55 <cubie> It'd be nice if PAYPAL **SERVEBYTE could automatically be assigned to 'Paypal' etc
20:29:35 * cubie might write a patch
20:33:07 <jsled> the qif importer is literal matching; the non-qif importer (ofx, &c.) is bayesian matching.
20:34:15 <cubie> ah right
20:44:12 <warlord> Migrating QIF over to the newer importer so it can use bayesian matching would be nice.
20:45:24 <cubie> agreed
20:46:03 <warlord> OTOH, the newer importer has an architectural flaw in that it actually modifies the existing account chart/data before you finalize the import.
20:48:45 <cubie> =/
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