2010-01-18 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:59:50 <Marquel> morning.
05:01:43 <Marquel> i have a little problem with gnucash-2.2.9 and aqbanking: apparently gnucash works with aqbanking-4 but asks for my PIN (using HBCI PIN/TAN) repeatedly during one procedure (retrieving transactions). this does not happen with aqbanking-2.3. is there anything known about this?
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06:40:49 <zem> hi
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06:54:59 <Shitbag> I've heard that i earlier versions of gnucash you were able to change the documentary and can you do that with the newest version?
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08:14:51 <asd> true or false?
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09:07:34 <warlord> Shitbag: What do you mean by "change the decoumentary"?
09:08:40 <sfalanga> I have closed out 2009 using Tools/Close Books. I have an A/R balance of $730 that I will never receive. Is there a way I can zero the Accounts Receivable value?
09:09:28 <warlord> sfalanga: Process Payment, and then change the destination account from Checking to Expenses:Write Offs
09:09:47 <sfalanga> warlord: thank you
09:09:54 <warlord> you're welcome
09:10:51 <sfalanga> is Aqbanking a different group than this?
09:11:35 <warlord> yes. I believe it's #aqbanking over on freenode.
09:12:31 <sfalanga> warlord: again, thanks. TTFN
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09:46:05 <zem> warlord: by the way, is there any possibility to get the German account templates fixed up in the upstream version
09:46:08 <zem> ?
09:47:29 <zem> warlord: we have 19% sales tax for over 4 years now not 16% for example
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09:54:34 <warlord> zem: talk to r0lf who maintains them. (we can only update the 2.3.x series -- we're not making any more 2.2.x releases)
10:00:30 <zem> I will talk to r0lf, thank you. :-)
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10:10:25 <puchrojo> Hi, I read that gnucash can import and send the DTAUS format. But I don't find any instruction how to make it.
10:10:55 <puchrojo> I try and I can import the data, but not to send it.
10:19:57 <warlord> puchrojo: I'm afraid I dont know anything about that part of GnuCash. I know it can initiate HBCI.
10:28:47 <puchrojo> Hi warlord
10:29:25 <puchrojo> I thinks it is a problem of configuration of amounts, but not more
10:30:02 <warlord> I dont know. Sorry.
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10:42:52 <puchrojo> Hi, anoboy else know about DTAUS import?
10:45:42 <warlord> Are you talking about IMPORT? Or about Txn Initialization? They are NOT the same.
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10:58:52 <puchrojo> I think Txn Initialitzation: I want (1) to import the DTAUS-Datei and (2) that make the transfern with HBCI
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11:18:28 <daedeloth> I've asked this before, but I didn't get an answer back then. It's a rather complicated issue:
11:18:47 <daedeloth> When buying something from an interntional supplier I don't pay vat.
11:19:07 <daedeloth> But I do have to add it in my tax form
11:19:47 <daedeloth> according to my course accounting, what I should do is calculate the vat on the invoice and increase an account "Vat to pay"
11:20:00 <daedeloth> while, at the same time, increasing the account "vat to receive"
11:20:05 <daedeloth> so this whole thing is a zero operation
11:20:16 <daedeloth> is something like that doable with the invoice feature of gnucash?
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11:22:25 <zem> daedeloth: I would greate a special vat table für this Task
11:22:49 <daedeloth> yep, I made one, it's called "international purchases"
11:22:56 <daedeloth> so that adds 21% to the invoice total
11:23:11 <daedeloth> and adds the vat to my "vat to receive" account
11:23:52 <daedeloth> I then do a manual transaction between "money to pay to other businesses" and "vat to pay", so those accoutns are right
11:24:18 <daedeloth> however, the invoice still asks me to send the complete amount of money (the items + 21% vat) to the business
11:24:27 <daedeloth> sorry, my business english is really bad :p
11:28:51 <zem> daedeloth: hmmmm, i had not thought about that problem yet
11:31:48 * zem is opening his test accounting
11:32:05 <daedeloth> :)
11:37:13 <warlord> daedeloth: I do not believe the code handles that case..
11:37:30 <daedeloth> yea, thought so :)
11:37:37 <warlord> puchrojo: You might be best off asking on the gnucash-de mailing list.
11:38:09 <warlord> daedeloth: I can't think of any way to do it such that the customer doesn't see what you're doing..
11:38:10 <puchrojo> warlord: Thanks, I think it is a good idea
11:38:53 <warlord> I also can't think of any way to get it to work without increasing the amount of the invoice.
11:39:04 <warlord> I think you'll have to do this one by hand.
11:40:07 <daedeloth> yea, thought so, I guess I could just do the vat part by hand and the invoice without vat
11:44:14 <warlord> Probably your best bet.. The downside is that there's no way to easily tie the Vat 0-sum to the invoice...
11:45:10 <zem> Maybe you are able to process two different payings I'm trying to figure that out
11:47:17 <daedeloth> don't think so, how would that work?
11:48:09 <zem> daedeloth: wait a minute I'm still figuring out
11:48:47 <warlord> I dont think that would work...
11:49:58 <zem> daedeloth: at the moment I made a bill with 200 Euro which is 238 Euro whith 19% vat
11:50:19 <daedeloth> uhu, indeed
11:51:03 <zem> I processed a 200 Euro incoming paying
11:51:50 <zem> Now i have to process another paying of 38 Euro which is not coming from my Bank account
11:51:57 <daedeloth> indeed
11:52:53 <warlord> But is the invoice 200? or 238?
11:53:02 <Shitbag> warlord: .. a bit later :P What I mean is that in sweden it's illegal to change documentary, "verifikationer" in swedish, and I heard that you could do that in GnuCash.
11:53:24 <warlord> please define "documentary"?
11:53:32 <warlord> I dont think that's the English word you mean.
11:53:40 <daedeloth> how do you guys handle that by the way? Completely different program to keep track of your VAT details?
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11:54:17 <zem> warlord: the overall sum of the invoice is 238 which is splitted up in 38 Euro Tax and 200 Euro from the deliverer
11:54:38 <warlord> This is a Vendor Bill?
11:55:02 <daedeloth> no idea, I'm very un-english. It's an invoice I receive and I have to pay :)
11:55:32 <zem> daedeloth: we are talking about the same type of invoice
11:55:47 <daedeloth> ok, good :)
12:00:24 <Shitbag> warlord: verification, then. :P
12:00:28 <warlord> Yes, that's a Vendor Bill (A/P) vs Customer Invoice (A/R)
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12:03:02 <warlord> Okay, you can do this: Income (200), VAT (38), AP (238), and then process payment twice, one for AP->Checking (200) and one for AP->VAT (38)
12:03:36 <warlord> Shitbag: Are you asking about making data un-changeable?
12:03:58 <warlord> There's no way to make data read-only. There's no way to make the problem not allow entries prior to a certain date.
12:04:01 <daedeloth> hm, interesting, going to give that a try
12:05:29 <Shitbag> warlord: Well, to be able to change verifications is illegal in sweden. And just wondered if you could do that with GnuCash.
12:05:45 <warlord> So just make a regular tax table for your 38% going to VAT, but in this case it would NOT be "Tax Included"
12:05:47 <Shitbag> warlord: Because I'm trying to make an small bussiness computer with only linux
12:05:48 <daedeloth> nice, that worked, I think
12:06:27 <daedeloth> yea, seems to be right :) thanks, warlord
12:06:32 <warlord> I dont understand what you mean by "changing verifications". But no, in general there is no way to prevent data-change. If you want to make data read-only then burn it to a read-only media like a CDROM
12:06:39 <warlord> daedeloth: you're welcome.
12:06:41 <daedeloth> now make it do that automatically :D
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12:07:31 <Shitbag> Thanks anywayt
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12:09:10 <warlord> Shitbag: Even if the GnuCash application did do such a thing there's nothing to stop someone from manually editing the data file.
12:09:32 <warlord> Note that this is true of ANY application.
12:09:33 <warlord> ... not just GnuCash.
12:09:34 <Shitbag> warlord: Yeah I know :) Its just data
12:09:39 <warlord> exactly.
12:09:55 <warlord> So like I said, if you want to enforce read-only on your data, write it to a write-once media like a CDROM
12:12:07 <jsled> Or do some sort of trusted-third-party digital signature of the datafile contents.
12:13:57 <daedeloth> btw, all those files in my books folder, are those all older versions?
12:20:32 <warlord> The .xac files are backups. the .log files are, well, logs
12:22:09 <daedeloth> k
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12:57:56 <feisar> Hi, my cash flow report is showing that an income account has £30 in it when it actually has £360 in it, why would that be?
12:59:36 <feisar> The report says 'Money into selected accounts comes from' Income:account £30 but then when I click on the account it clearly shows £360 as the balance
13:07:11 <feisar> sorted it, it was the date preferences
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14:27:28 <broker> hi
14:27:44 <broker> anyone want extra business? pm me
14:28:27 <warlord> broker: Are you looking for GnUCash development consulting?
14:28:45 <warlord> @op jsled
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14:29:34 <broker> looking for business partner.. pm me
14:29:46 <jsled> broker: that's not what this channel is about
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14:29:49 <aba> that sounds like kick me
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14:55:46 <daedeloth> is there a way to make a big sign "COPY" on an invoice?
14:56:17 <warlord> daedeloth: Sure, after you print it take a nice big marker.. ;)
14:56:44 <daedeloth> old fashion methods... I like it! :p
15:14:13 <warlord> :-D
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16:54:21 * zem is dreaming from reports that will put out all relevant data as xml so you can put on your own layouts via xslt
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16:56:41 <warlord> LOL
16:56:43 <warlord> that would be nice.
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17:00:58 <zem> warlord: :-)
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17:31:16 <fell> daedeloth: I believe, in fancy invoice you can load a background image. make one with "Copy".
17:35:19 <fell> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/User_talk:Kristina34 is spamming.
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17:55:08 <jsled> fell: blocked; thanks.
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17:55:55 <fell> jsled: NP
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18:18:14 <notbatman> Is there a way to add memos to checks and add that field to the print output?
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18:32:50 <shade> I'm having trouble entering the following situation into gnucash:
18:34:56 <shade> My business started 9/1/09, customers paid for products with credit cards during the first 30 days using a credit card machine that belonged to someone else, thus depositing the money in their account instead of mine.
18:35:40 <shade> That person was to forward me the money but did not, and agrees they owe it, I am to keep track of how much
18:36:30 <shade> Now I have my own credit card machine, so no longer a problem. This person is also a customer who buys from me, and also a vendor who sells to me.
18:39:35 <shade> How should I enter these transactions? Can a customer be a vendor or vice versa?
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18:52:33 <warlord> notbatman: Yes, View -> Double Line Mode and put it into the Transaction Notes field
18:54:00 <warlord> shade: gnucash does have the ability (right now) to treat the same contact as both a customer and a vendor. You have to enter their info twice and you'll have to manually reconcile the differences.
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18:59:04 <notbatman> warlord: Thanks!!! Is there a way to print three-part business checks?
19:01:07 <warlord> What do you mean by '3-part biz checks'? You mean a single sheet that has 3 checks on it?
19:01:20 <Marc128000> I'm a newbie to financial software in general. I'm trying to setup my account right now. Is there a tutorial for setting up my home mortgage other than the one in the help file. The help file seems to be pretty much just an overview
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19:02:00 <warlord> Marc128000: Try the Tutorial and Concepts Guide
19:02:19 <Marc128000> Where do I find that? On the wiki?
19:03:17 <Marc128000> warlord, nevermind found it. I'll give it a look. Thanks!
19:03:26 <warlord> you're welcome
19:04:14 <notbatman> I mean a single sheet that has the original check at the top and two perforated print copies of the information--one for the payor's record and one for the payee's files.
19:04:15 <up_the_irons> so, if I need to send the exact same invoice to a client every month, what is the suggested way to do this? I'm running 2.2.4. Will I simply need to copy & paste the line items every month, or is there a better way?
19:04:48 <shade> (right now), will that keep me from upgrading in the future?
19:10:03 <warlord> notbatman: As far as I know right now there is no such check format in GnuCash.... However if you create one and donate it I'm sure people would love you forever*. (* where forever is a day or two)
19:10:42 <warlord> up_the_irons: Unfortunately right now there is no "duplicate invoice" or "scheduled invoice" functionality, so yes, you need to create a new invoice and copy the line items. Sorry.
19:11:04 <warlord> up_the_irons: also, note that 2.2.9 is the most recent stable. you really do NOT want to be running 2.2.4
19:11:21 <warlord> shade: er, sorry, does NOT have the ability.
19:12:12 <shade> oops, I was entering now..
19:12:33 <shade> what will it do?
19:14:14 <warlord> Nothing. Vendors and Customers are completely separate entities.
19:14:30 <shade> ok, it entered with out error
19:15:11 <shade> How do you populate the terms drop box on customers?
19:15:28 <notbatman> If I can figure out how to create a three-part check format, I will certainly donate it, thanks. Be advised, I got a D minus in java programming and know nothing of C.
19:16:33 <up_the_irons> warlord: ah ok, I'll look into upgrading, thanks
19:17:11 <warlord> shade: Business -> Billing Terms Editor
19:17:25 <warlord> notbatman: no programming necessary.
19:17:31 <warlord> The check formats are all just text files.
19:18:38 <up_the_irons> notbatman: if u can make that three-part check format, i could use it as well :)
19:19:27 <thomas> notbatman: I just made a 3-part voucher check format and will donate it if I can figure out how.
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19:20:40 <shade> I could use it also, I figured out how to move the information around, but I can't figure out how to print the same information multiple times, for the check and the stub
19:23:45 <notbatman> That's great, thomas. Thanks!
19:25:05 <thomas> Sure, but I have never contributed and I'm getting stuck.
19:25:55 <thomas> shade: you can refer to the same check item ( e.g. AMOUNT_NUMBER ) more than once. Look at quicken-wallet.chk
19:34:19 <up_the_irons> thomas: awesome
19:40:36 <thomas> awsome not... I have the check format, but can't figure out how to contribute it. Can anyone tell me where to go? I tried gnucash-devel mail list but just crickets.
19:42:11 <warlord> thomas: what do you mean "just crickets"?
19:42:30 <warlord> You mean the patch you sent this morning??
19:43:24 <warlord> (note that generally the best way to deal with a patch is to file a bug report and then attach the patch there -- that way it doesn't get lost. However sending patches to -devel for perusal and comment is definitely a good first start.
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19:49:02 <thomas> yes - yesterday - but I just fixed it this morning. OK. So I go to bugzilla, report a bug (enh), attach the patch and then wait for comments? I'm not even sure if what I attached at devel is the right thing.
19:51:17 <warlord> Well, then, wait.. It's monday... Some people read mail in the evenings.. People will read it.
19:51:32 <warlord> Personally I haven't had the time, yet. But I'll get to it in a day or two.
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20:00:54 <notbatman> thomas: Where does one find the check formats? Are they in a library? Looking at the gnucash data file in BBEdit, I do not find them.
20:01:16 <thomas> warlord: Sorry - as I said, I'm new to this stuff. So its OK where it is for now. Great.
20:01:41 <warlord> notbatman: look for *.chk in the install tree
20:02:29 <warlord> (or in 'checks' in the source tree)
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20:20:45 <shade> warlord: I received the payments from my customers to orphan dollars, how should I handle it from here, enter it to the customer side or the vendor side? should I transfer from orphan dollars to one of the accounts, use it as a payment, or write a invoice? I don't want to count the sale twice, but I could write it as a non taxable sale. I'm not sure if this is an accounting question or a gnucash question, but maybe you can suggest?
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20:21:17 <shade> thomas:thanks!
20:22:42 <warlord> Wait, how did it get into Orphan?? That implies you didn't correctly balance the transaction. Orphan- and Imbalance- should always be 0!
20:23:37 <shade> when I received the payment from the customers, I knew it wasn't going into my checking, so I put it into orphan, as I thought that was were to put lost money
20:24:20 <warlord> Orphan-USD is an automatic account; I wouldn't use it for anything real; it's there for mistakes.
20:24:32 <shade> but assumed it would be transfered to checking shortly, within a week. now 3 months later it hasn't and I need to tidy up for tax time!
20:24:35 <warlord> If it's not going into Checking then perhaps Assets:To-Be-Deposited?
20:24:58 <warlord> In this case I think maybe Assets:Borrowed CC Machine ?
20:25:01 <shade> so I need to delete those transactions and re enter
20:25:56 <warlord> Are they payments? You can just change the destinatoin account.
20:26:10 <shade> from the a/r register?
20:27:09 <shade> so effectively I need to receive them to assets, then make a loan from assets
20:27:40 <shade> how do you write up a loan in gnucash, it would have to be a customer loan, not a vendor, right?
20:28:34 <warlord> No, you'll need to change them from the Orphan account.
20:28:55 <warlord> Actually, you might be able to edit from the A/R acct
20:29:16 <shade> I just didn't know if it would screwup anything
20:29:37 <shade> I've done it before, but I stillhave some unidentified problems
20:30:16 <shade> what about recording the loan, how would i do that?
20:30:37 <warlord> What loan?
20:31:14 <shade> I still haven't received the money, so it is a loan, forced or whatever
20:32:12 <warlord> Right, that's what the "Asset:Borrowed CC Machine" is.. That's the "Loan"
20:33:49 <shade> so it is a taxable asset and when it gets paid, make a transfer to checking, it really isn't related to the invoices or bills
20:35:53 <shade> you couldn't pay a bill with it because it is negative, and turning it into an invoice would double enter the same money, and it isn't income, but a loan.. I think I understand now.
20:36:10 <shade> Thanks warlord!
20:36:24 <shade> hard to sort out when in the middle of it all
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23:06:29 <mikemorr_> Hi all. Running GnuCash 2.2.9 on 64-bit Vista. Is there a way I can define my own keyboard shortcuts for menu commands? I found references to a "Menu and Toolbar Preferences" pane in the docs and mailing list, but I don't see that pane on my machine.
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