2009-12-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:05:18 <tomreyn> hi, i'm having some trouble configuring my account with aqbanking. Is it ok to ask for help with aqbanking here?
07:07:29 <tomreyn> I'm using PIN/TAN authentication and I receive HBCI: 9800 (canceled because of error in message) (M) and HBCI: 9130 (error in binary data field) (S) errors
07:12:13 <tomreyn> HBCI interface provider is Fiducia, the server is https://hbci11.fiducia.de/cgi-bin/hbciservlet and it's HBCI 3.0. I've tried several combinations of RDH versions 1, 2 and 10 and HTTP 1.0 and 1.1 but always run into the same error message when trying to get a system ID
07:13:12 <tomreyn> this is gnucash 2.2.9-2 and aqbanking-tools 4.2.0-2 on debian squeeze
07:26:17 <tomreyn> gah this was due to special characters in my PIN
07:27:07 <tomreyn> i guess this makes me worried about the security the aqbanking GUI provides there...
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08:11:20 <warlord> tomreyn: you might want to ask the AqB people.
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08:26:49 <tomreyn> warlord: would they have a channel, too?
08:27:07 <warlord> I think they have one on freenode
08:28:39 <tomreyn> do you know the name?
08:29:44 <julien> Hi all. New to Gnucash. SME. I'm trying to do the following: grouping several accounts in my standard hierarchy under a "virtual account" in order to see an manipulate these related accounts in reports just as it were a single account... (For instance grouping all R&D expenses together). Is there a way to do this or simulate this somehow in gnucash? Many thanks.
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08:40:23 <warlord> tomreyn: I'd guess #aqbanking
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08:41:30 <warlord> julien: unfortunately, no.. You cannot group arbitrary accounts like that. You can only group Income/Expense accounts, and Asset/Liability accounts. So you'd need individual top-level accounts for each "business unit".
08:41:48 <warlord> .. also, gnucash doesn't have "Virtual" accounts. There is only one hierarchy .
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08:44:51 <julien> warlord: many thanks for your reply. So, I guess the best I can do if I want to get details for BU such as "R&D" (and still have my standard legally-bound hierarchy) is to add a number of expenses reports and select only the corresponding accounts ... ("Virtual" accounts would be a really cool feature, though ;) ... )
08:45:24 <julien> Do you know if this is planned somehow ? (Possibly through an other/better way to do it?)
08:46:02 <warlord> It's not planned, but patches are always welcome
08:47:12 <julien> Hmm... I'm not sure we have the resources to do so... But I'll take a brief look at the src just in case it's simpler than expected ;)
08:48:32 <warlord> It's not. :(
08:48:44 <warlord> At least, I'm not sure how easy it would be...
08:49:13 <warlord> I think one could possibly use GUID KVPs to build alternate 'views'
08:49:36 <warlord> But it would require major reworkings of how most of the widgets work.
08:49:50 <julien> Well, I did not assume it to be simple ;)
08:50:06 <warlord> :)
09:05:24 <gjanssens> Bug 543063 is bothering me enough that I want to do something about it.
09:05:40 <gjanssens> Unfortunately, my scheme knowledge is very limited.
09:06:19 <gjanssens> So I would like to gather as much useful information as possible that another dev with more scheme knowledge can look at it
09:06:40 <gjanssens> There is already a guile backtrace
09:07:13 <gjanssens> Which indicates the problem is somewhere with the definition of open-file (which is in slib)
09:07:37 <gjanssens> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543063 (the direct link to the bugreport)
09:08:04 <gjanssens> Christian suggested in the duplicate report to insert a (display "here")
09:08:31 <gjanssens> I did just before the call to open-file, but I didn't get any information out of that
09:09:25 <gjanssens> So let me start there: if I want to get information printed to the console (or the gnucash.trace file) how should I do that ?
09:19:01 <julien> warlord: regarding "virtual" accounts... Do you believe there is an chance that the following approach works ? To implement it through a "Vaccount.c" implementation that would only implement the read-only features of "Account.h" and that would use actual Account.c implementations underneath... Vaccount would be read-only (always), empty (always), have no children, and simply provide an aggregate view of compatible actual "Account" ... Or is this
09:19:02 <julien> approach intrinsically broken for some reason ?
09:20:52 <warlord> gjanssens: (gnc:debug "print me")
09:21:51 <warlord> julien: you'll need to think about storage and lookup.. How do you store your vaccount information? And how do you look it up?
09:23:27 <julien> Hmm... Not yet familiar with Gnucash storage engine ... I would "only" need to store a name, a code, and pointers to other accounts, I guess ... Is there a "storage engine" ? If so where ?
09:24:54 <warlord> Well, I guess it depends if you're expecting to create virtual folders or virtual trees..
09:25:55 <julien> Only folders for now ! :)
09:26:26 <julien> I'll recurse afterward in the unlikely case I find enough time and skill to do it :)
09:27:08 <warlord> I suspect people wont like the "only folders" concept.
09:27:41 <warlord> ... and if you don't plan for the implementation of full trees now then moving to that method might be MUCH MUCH harder later. (read: data file format changes)
09:28:18 <julien> Well, if (I'm saying) if it works, I should theoretically by simple to add a Vaccount into a Vaccount, thus getting "trees" almost for free ...
09:29:05 <warlord> it all depends on how you implement it.
09:30:30 <julien> Sure ... Well, I'll take a closer at the general design when I have time. If I decide to give the implementation a try, I'll let you know...
09:30:41 <julien> Thanks for your answers.
09:30:43 <warlord> Cool.
09:30:45 <warlord> You're welcome.
09:30:56 <warlord> You can also ask for more help on the gnucash-devel mailing list
09:31:00 <julien> ok
09:36:14 <gjanssens> warlord: ok thank you. I'm currently rebuilding to rule out issues with library changes (I upgraded to 2010.0 yesterday)
09:36:29 <warlord> k
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10:02:07 <gjanssens> When rebuilding, I get a warning "URLType redefined". Originally defined in src/base-types.i and redefined in src/html/gnc-html-extras.h
10:02:39 <gjanssens> I don't see a bugreport for it. Is it worth creating one ?
10:02:58 <warlord> What version of swig?
10:03:10 * warlord needs to leave in a minute
10:04:17 <gjanssens> swig-1.3.40-1mdv2010.0
10:04:53 <warlord> And is this a clean build or a rebuild?
10:05:03 <warlord> (i.e., is it a clean source/build tree?)
10:06:04 <gjanssens> I think it's a clean build... I use Eclipse which uses a separate build directory. I removed this complete directory,
10:06:19 <gjanssens> I don't think there were any files left
10:07:23 <warlord> Oh, I know nothing about eclipse...
10:07:41 <warlord> I'm going to have to leave for a bit... But you dont need a bug to fix it.
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10:08:13 <gjanssens> both src/base-types.i and src/html/gnc-html-extras.h are svn managed source files, so I don't see how this would be affected by swig ?
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10:17:32 * gjanssens is restarting from a fresh svn checkout just to be sure...
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11:27:26 <warlord> gjanssens: what's the full error message? what's giving it? base-types.i is a swig interface file. It's not compiled directly.
11:29:25 <gjanssens> warlord: nevermind the duplicate definition. I suspect it to be an Eclipse anomaly. The warnings disappear after the first compilation.
11:30:01 <gjanssens> Still pondering bug 543063 though.
11:30:24 * gjanssens suspects it's not a GnuCash bug.
11:30:40 <gjanssens> if I run
11:30:56 <gjanssens> guile --debug -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib))(display open-file)"
11:31:17 <gjanssens> in a terminal, I also get the unbound variable error
11:31:46 <gjanssens> So I'll have to look outside of GC to find the solution.
11:32:18 <gjanssens> But I could still use some generic guile help for that, so if I may ask... ;)
11:32:20 <warlord> yep...
11:32:40 <gjanssens> Is there a way to have guile display where it looks for modules ?
11:33:46 <warlord> probably... but i dont know how
11:34:17 <gjanssens> Oh well, too bad.
11:34:47 <gjanssens> I'll inform on some guile forum or channel for that then.
11:34:57 <gjanssens> Should I close the bug with my findings ?
11:35:23 <warlord> not sure it should be closed until we find the source.
11:36:07 <gjanssens> Ok. But I'll reopen the bug in Mandriva about this issue. It's in their disto this issue seems to happen.
11:54:23 <warlord> Oh.. Could be a distro-specific issue.. maybe the slib/guile integration is broken
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11:58:03 <gjanssens> That's what I suspect. I hope Mdv's slib maintainer can help out.
11:58:52 <warlord> * fingers crossed *
11:59:00 <warlord> Honestly, I didn't realize Mandriva was still alive!
12:00:43 <gjanssens> Heh, it's a European thing I guess :) They do a new release every half year, a bit like Fedora
12:01:11 <gjanssens> I don't know the details, but I suspect they rely a lot on Fedora's packaging
12:01:31 <gjanssens> But I'm not that deep into to know...
12:02:34 <warlord> * nods *
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13:20:41 <gjanssens> warlord: I found the "placeholder" reference now in the druid as mentioned in bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507351
13:21:09 <gjanssens> you ask for a better name instead of placeholder
13:21:44 <gjanssens> apparently you once suggested "Immutable" yourself on irc (see bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=544546)
13:21:45 <warlord> No, I think it just needs more text on the druid page to explain what it means.
13:22:09 <gjanssens> so these two bugs are no dupes ?
13:22:25 <warlord> I dont know offhand, sorry.
13:22:48 <gjanssens> k
13:28:03 <gjanssens> By the way, in the same druid page it says you can make an account a placeholder by clicking the checkbox. I tried this on several accounts, but that didn't seem to work
13:28:17 <gjanssens> The checkboxes don't seem to be enabled. Is that normal ?
13:29:49 <warlord> I dont recall. Check the history of the file?
13:30:00 <gjanssens> k, thanks
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14:15:56 <bklang> So I guess I would have to create one entry in Retained Earnings against the asset account for each previous period?
14:16:40 <warlord> No, you make an entry in R.E. against Income and Expense for each period.
14:16:55 <warlord> Or... just ignore previous periods completely and start cleanly from e.g. Jan 1, 2010
14:17:19 <bklang> well that's the plan, to start fresh on Jan 1, but I was trying to import old data as an exercise in learning the tool
14:18:19 <bklang> ok, I think I understand what you're saying now, and it makes sense
14:18:30 <bklang> I'll add those entries and keep going, thanks
14:18:53 <KaiForce> bklang: can I ask what is motivating the change to GnuCash?
14:19:02 * warlord had to reboot the vmhost server after an uptime of 202 days. :-(
14:19:05 <kimmo> warlord, any news on the per-account default filter, or saving account tab filter on save?
14:19:43 <warlord> kimmo: still waiting for you (or someone) to send in patches to implement it.
14:19:46 <warlord> :-D
14:19:57 <kimmo> > uptime 9:19pm up 1711 days 16:13, 14 users, load average: 0.09, 0.16, 0.15
14:20:00 <bklang> KaiForce: It's all about the SQL backend. I want to enable multiple users to access the data and I want to be able to link my order entry process to my accounting system.
14:20:03 <kimmo> grr
14:20:39 <KaiForce> bklang: ok cool. Wondered how many people were switching off of Quickbooks due to the Intuit policy of breaking their software after three years
14:20:41 <warlord> kimmo: what kind of system is that? I'd love to hack into it! Running a 4-year-old kernel .... BOUND to have some bugs in it!
14:20:56 <gjanssens> warlord: oh that's why svn log didn't work just a couple of minutes back
14:21:03 <warlord> yep.
14:21:05 * kimmo starting from clean on 1.1., after running current ledger since 1.1.2002, i.e. start of euros
14:21:05 <warlord> Sorry about that.
14:21:10 <KaiForce> gotta be a router or something
14:21:15 <bklang> KaiForce: well that, and QB hasn't really lived up to my expectations. QB on Mac has various incomplete features and "inconsistencies" with the PC version that make it frustrating if you want to integrate with external data sources
14:21:21 <kimmo> > uname -a
14:21:21 <kimmo> SunOS genghis 5.8 Generic_108528-23 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-250
14:21:24 <bklang> I've been on QB for about 2 years now
14:21:43 <kimmo> QB as in quicken basic?
14:21:46 <KaiForce> i'd switch off of QB in a heartbeat if it didn't mean i'd lose my accountant
14:21:56 <KaiForce> quickbooks
14:22:00 <kimmo> ah
14:22:10 * kimmo certified Quicken Basic 2000 user
14:22:15 <bklang> Fortunately my accountant will work with me, and my mother is a CPA, so between the two of them I stay sane
14:22:17 * kimmo never saw Quicken, any version
14:22:24 <warlord> gjanssens: it should be back now.
14:22:41 <bklang> kimmo: QB = QuickBooks
14:22:50 <kimmo> yeah, gotcha
14:25:27 <gjanssens> Indeed, working again. Thanks :)
14:25:49 <warlord> You're welcome. Sorry for not announcing; it was an emergency reboot. :(
14:26:07 <warlord> (I was at least able to cleanly shut down the VM)
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15:28:02 <rigid1> ahoy...
15:28:39 <rigid1> it seems i lost some account-types (i can't choose "Passiva" when creating a new account)... I chose the most top-level account
15:28:51 <rigid1> does anyone know what could have gone wrong?
15:31:31 <warlord> what's the current account's parent?
15:34:10 <rigid1> warlord: it's german and says something like "new account in top-level"
15:34:30 <rigid1> topmost account, shouldn't have a parent
15:35:12 <rigid1> http://boogiepalace.hopto.org/stuff/1261427693089039970.png
15:41:30 <warlord> rigid1: "Passiva" isn't the translation of any account type.
15:42:04 <warlord> You have Fremdkapital, which is the "Liability" account type.
15:42:33 <warlord> The only translation I see that results in "Passiva" is "Liabilities" which comes from guile, so probably in the reports.
15:46:53 <rigid1> warlord: it's the "opposite" of "Aktiva", i can look it up sec
15:47:27 <warlord> rigid1: I just looked in the actual translation file..
15:47:32 <rigid1> warlord: yep, it's "liabilities" as toplevel
15:48:27 <warlord> But it's not..
15:48:31 <warlord> It's not an account type.
15:49:07 <rigid1> really? hm... so what type should a "Liabilities" placeholder account have?
15:49:59 <warlord> The only place "Passiva" is in the translation is from a few reports (barcharts, piecharts, balance sheet, budget, ...)
15:50:16 <warlord> the translation of Liability is Fremdkapital
15:50:24 <warlord> ... which I saw in your list.
15:50:27 <rigid1> ah tnx
15:50:35 <rigid1> warlord: then it's just another term...
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17:02:05 <bklang> The GnuCash wiki says that the fiscal year is hard coded to July-June, but it also references version 1.8. Is that still true for versions 2.2 and/or 2.3?
17:24:38 <cortana> there's an option in the preferences for changing when the fincancial year runs
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17:59:25 <yamajin> hello
18:00:27 <yamajin> i have a question: is there a way to export a account tree? without any values and transactions
18:00:46 <yamajin> to begin new year with new, empty file
18:01:00 <jsled> File > Export > Export Accounts
18:01:50 <jsled> (then just File > Open the resulting file.)
18:05:21 <yamajin> it works, thank you very much
18:05:34 <jsled> you're welcome.
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22:25:02 <Mer|in> is there a file/setting where i can setup the windows that load @ startup?
22:48:28 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
22:48:37 <warlord> Mer|in: they are saved when you exit gnucash.
22:49:11 <warlord> bklang: There are settings, however it's not a relative setting.
22:49:22 <Mer|in> warlord: thought so, but where?
22:49:31 <warlord> ~/.gnucash/...
22:49:55 <Mer|in> i had a set layout that i liked, it was recently corrupted
22:50:23 <Mer|in> one window for assets, another for services, another for revolving credit, etc
22:50:29 <Mer|in> and then the main window for reports
22:50:47 <warlord> Huh
22:50:58 <warlord> umm. okay..
22:51:04 <warlord> And you can't manually recreate that?
22:51:32 <Mer|in> all of a sudden only one of the windows would show up and it didn't have the "accounts" tab
22:51:56 <Mer|in> so i renamed the file to force it to reset to the default
22:52:27 <Mer|in> i can recreate it without a problem, but would like to be able to keep a copy of that setting file in case of another incident like that
22:53:09 <Mer|in> particularly to avoid going through and setting parameters on all my reports
22:57:16 <warlord> back up ~/.gnucash
22:57:29 <Mer|in> yea
22:57:35 <Mer|in> was hoping for something more precise
22:57:42 <Mer|in> is it ~/.gnucash/books/<file>?
22:57:53 <Mer|in> hmm looks that way
22:57:56 <warlord> yeah
22:58:06 <Mer|in> kthx
22:58:20 <Mer|in> for some reason i thought it'd be in gconf
22:59:15 <Mer|in> speaking of reports - i think there's something wrong with the report options in 2.3.8
22:59:31 <Mer|in> doesn't seem to save my settings on win32 @ least
22:59:52 <Mer|in> guess i should file that one
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23:50:51 <warlord> yeah, you should.
23:50:59 <warlord> anyways, bedtime for me.
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