2009-12-08 GnuCash IRC logs

00:32:24 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
00:43:04 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
01:04:16 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
01:44:00 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
02:00:54 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
02:17:32 *** jean has joined #gnucash
02:31:00 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
02:38:05 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
02:43:45 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
02:44:22 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
02:48:16 *** kfo has joined #gnucash
03:09:19 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
03:48:23 *** ErKa has quit IRC
04:33:38 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
05:05:22 *** XiXaQ has joined #gnucash
05:05:48 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
05:37:28 *** jean has quit IRC
05:56:13 *** ramontayag_ has joined #gnucash
05:59:48 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
05:59:58 *** ramontayag_ is now known as ramontayag
06:42:27 *** feisar has joined #gnucash
06:43:39 *** XiXaQ has quit IRC
07:28:46 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
07:51:22 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
07:52:08 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
08:04:09 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
08:07:30 *** JimRaehl2 has left #gnucash
08:07:58 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
08:23:25 *** ErKa has quit IRC
08:24:59 *** KaiForce has joined #gnucash
08:48:30 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
09:20:01 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
09:50:25 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
10:38:56 *** blizgerg has quit IRC
10:50:33 *** KaiForce_ has joined #gnucash
10:55:46 *** KaiForce has quit IRC
10:55:46 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
10:55:46 *** btQuark has quit IRC
10:55:46 *** Simon has quit IRC
10:55:46 *** linas has quit IRC
10:55:46 *** todd has quit IRC
10:55:47 *** KaiForce_ is now known as KaiForce
10:56:58 *** linas has joined #gnucash
10:56:58 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
10:56:58 *** btQuark has joined #gnucash
10:56:58 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
10:56:58 *** todd has joined #gnucash
10:56:58 *** irc.gimp.ca sets mode: +o linas
11:00:41 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
11:04:11 *** linas has quit IRC
11:04:11 *** todd has quit IRC
11:04:11 *** Simon has quit IRC
11:04:11 *** btQuark has quit IRC
11:04:11 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
11:05:31 *** linas has joined #gnucash
11:05:31 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
11:05:31 *** btQuark has joined #gnucash
11:05:31 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
11:05:31 *** todd has joined #gnucash
11:05:31 *** irc.gimp.ca sets mode: +o linas
11:06:49 *** XiXaQ has joined #gnucash
11:30:41 *** XiXaQ has quit IRC
11:45:19 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
11:48:57 *** XiXaQ has joined #gnucash
11:58:16 *** warlord has quit IRC
12:08:27 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
12:24:05 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
12:24:06 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
12:25:00 *** XiXaQ has quit IRC
12:57:46 *** KaiForce has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** linas has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** todd has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** Simon has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** btQuark has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** JimRaehl2 has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** aba has quit IRC
13:20:21 *** paulproteus_____ has quit IRC
13:20:28 *** linas has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** todd has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** btQuark has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** aba has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** paulproteus_____ has joined #gnucash
13:20:28 *** irc.neitzert.com sets mode: +o linas
13:24:49 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** Simon has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** todd has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** linas has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** btQuark has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** paulproteus_____ has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** aba has quit IRC
13:24:49 *** JimRaehl2 has quit IRC
13:24:55 *** linas has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** todd has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** btQuark has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** aba has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** paulproteus_____ has joined #gnucash
13:24:55 *** irc.neitzert.com sets mode: +o linas
13:53:26 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
14:21:01 *** shade304 has joined #gnucash
14:25:11 <shade304> A printable invoice has options that you can change what prints, ect. How can they be made to "stick" so that next time the options are retained?
14:25:44 *** gxti has quit IRC
14:31:24 *** shade304 has quit IRC
14:31:43 *** shade304 has joined #gnucash
14:32:07 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
15:15:48 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
15:23:36 *** jean has joined #gnucash
15:28:34 *** shade304 has quit IRC
15:29:11 *** shade304 has joined #gnucash
15:33:51 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
16:08:38 *** paulproteus_____ has quit IRC
16:08:57 *** paulproteus_____ has joined #gnucash
16:11:29 *** nimrod has joined #gnucash
16:11:35 *** nimrod has left #gnucash
16:11:52 *** paulproteus_____ has quit IRC
16:12:04 *** paulproteus_____ has joined #gnucash
16:21:39 *** shade304 has joined #gnucash
16:27:27 <shade304> Sorry, I got disconnected. Any one know how to make printable invoice options "stick" ?
16:29:49 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
16:29:54 <warlord> Sure, don't close the report.
16:42:25 <shade304> :)
16:43:59 <shade304> Business>>Customer>>New Invoice, post, Ctl+P Ctl+P
16:44:14 <shade304> it's a different invoice every time
16:45:03 <warlord> [Printable Invoice] -> [Options] -> General -> [Select Invoice]
16:45:11 <warlord> I.e., don't use ctl-P
16:45:37 <warlord> after you post, switch to your open, preset Printable Invoice report, and then edit the options, select the invoice you just posted, and then print from there.
16:46:01 <shade304> ok
16:46:17 <shade304> better than nothing
16:46:50 <shade304> I'm finding that most of the time I set out to change GNUCash, but end up changing the way I do things
16:47:21 <shade304> so far most things work out better, just learning how to rethink
16:47:38 <warlord> :-D
16:48:01 <shade304> How may people in the forum are developers?
16:48:16 <shade304> 3?
16:49:00 <warlord> Define "developer"
16:49:32 <warlord> I see 3 people with commit access.. But none are currently active developing gnucash.
16:50:03 <shade304> Is anyone active in developing gnucash?
16:50:14 <shade304> Is it on cruise control?
16:50:30 <warlord> Yes, we have a bunch of active devs.. but they arent here
16:53:19 <shade304> I was wondering how much it would cost to get gnucash to prefill invoice lines from a price list or something like that, but I know that is like asking how much a car cost, and this wouldn't be the best place to ask. Anyway, any idea?
16:53:28 *** feisar has quit IRC
16:54:28 <warlord> I dunno.. We dont have a price list/inventory.
16:54:38 <shade304> Is that like an easy task, or like a wait for two major releases from now kind of thing
16:55:01 <shade304> Yeah, I'm not crazy about inventory and all the associated problems
16:55:15 <warlord> Right
16:55:24 *** jean has quit IRC
16:56:18 <shade304> but having an autofill for Income:Sales and taxable or not would be good
16:56:24 <warlord> off to lunch
16:56:26 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
16:57:20 *** thierry has joined #gnucash
16:58:22 *** thierry has left #gnucash
17:00:51 *** thierry has joined #gnucash
17:00:51 <thierry> Hi all
17:00:51 <thierry> Any European user there ?
17:00:51 <thierry> I try to move away from MS Money to Gnucash
17:01:40 <thierry> I started to read documentation, tried to google things, and I try to implement tests in Gnucash
17:01:40 <thierry> I have an history from 1-jan-1994 in MS Money
17:01:46 *** thierry has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** Simon has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** todd has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** linas has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** btQuark has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** andyt has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** aba has quit IRC
17:01:46 *** JimRaehl2 has quit IRC
17:01:50 *** linas has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** thierry has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** todd has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** btQuark has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** aba has joined #gnucash
17:01:50 *** irc.neitzert.com sets mode: +o linas
17:02:01 <thierry> In Europe we change money 1-Jan-2002, in my case from FRF to EUR
17:02:18 <thierry> MSMoney export QIF without the currency
17:02:35 <thierry> Do you know any trick to do the import in gnucash ?
17:04:06 <thierry> Actually all transactions are in EUR, but I have 2000 transactions to move to FRF, out of my 8000 transactions
17:04:06 <thierry> Any idea ?
17:04:06 <thierry> I tried to google that, but can not find help/sources of help
17:19:45 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
17:41:47 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
17:50:39 *** lincode has joined #gnucash
17:52:10 <lincode> Hello. I am trying to setup GnuCash for Small Business use. I'm having confusion when I try to create an invoice, there are two fields to enter a money amount. I enter a number into the first field which says invoice, and press tab to update the balance field. Unfortunately, the payment field gets the amount, and invoice becomes blank.
17:52:17 <lincode> Am I using the program wrong?
17:53:34 *** lincode has left #gnucash
17:58:12 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
17:58:46 <warlord> thierry: We used to have EUR conversion functions, but I think we removed them a few years ago as no longer needed. You might consider importing in pieces?
17:58:51 *** andyt has quit IRC
17:59:09 <warlord> I.e., import all your FRF transactions in 1 import, and then your EUR in another.
18:04:34 <thierry> warlord: You mean something like : split my QIF file in two, then import first part in FRF, then import second part in EUR ? That means having two account, one in FRF and one in EUR ? But how do I choose FRF for the first import ?
18:05:11 *** lincode has joined #gnucash
18:05:16 <lincode> Hrm..
18:05:38 <lincode> GnuCash is showing to be very confusing..
18:07:03 <warlord> lincode: Are you trying to enter an invoice by editing the A/R Account directly?
18:07:26 <warlord> thierry: You can choose a currency during the QIF Import.
18:17:34 <lincode> Yeah I created an new business account
18:18:00 <lincode> I still cannot figure out why when I enter information into one row, it automatically creates a second row which has the amount moved to the next column
18:18:28 <lincode> Just seems really un-user friendly
18:18:43 <warlord> lincode: you're doing it wrong.
18:18:57 <warlord> You should never manually enter into an A/R account.
18:19:10 <warlord> You're seeing what you're seeing because you don'
18:19:11 <lincode> Ohh...leave A/R alone..ok
18:19:33 <warlord> t understand double-entry, so you're assigning both credits and debits to the same account, so you're seeing both of them.
18:19:42 <warlord> For invoices: Business -> Customer -> New Invoice
18:19:50 <lincode> Well I simply want to keep track of a service I offer to one company, with monthly payments, and money payout to myself.
18:19:56 <warlord> ... if you haven't, I HIGHLY recommend you read the documentation!
18:20:07 <lincode> Hmm
18:20:26 <lincode> It's very different from Quicken or QuickBooks QuickStart FREE Edition
18:21:00 <lincode> (Only reason I'm doing this is because I find out a have to have a business license to be an independent contractor)
18:21:36 <lincode> Anyhow... is Salary the type I should use to receive payment from a client??
18:23:09 <warlord> I would use Income:Sales
18:23:22 <warlord> Salary is usually an expense that your company pays out to its employees
18:23:26 <lincode> Yeah, that's what I meant
18:23:59 <lincode> Oh and...does GnuCash have any features to automatically grab tax values for you, dependent upon location?
18:24:07 <warlord> No.
18:24:11 <lincode> Hm..
18:24:13 <warlord> And GnuCash has no Payroll.
18:24:24 <lincode> Yeah, that's another big problem I have with it..
18:24:36 <lincode> That's the most important thing I need
18:25:04 <warlord> Writing a payroll support system is HARD..
18:25:14 <lincode> I had planned to find some kind of a work-around
18:25:55 <lincode> But, if I can at least keep track of the main financial stuff, I can use another program, or maybe just a custom script to handle the payroll
18:26:10 <warlord> yeah. It can certainly keep track of it for you.
18:26:22 <lincode> What's soo hard about writing a payroll deal though?
18:28:41 <warlord> Making it generic enough to deal with all different locales with all different taxes and rules. What's pre-tax, what's post-tax.. Or are some deductions pre-tax for some taxes but included in others.. and then you have tax caps, and....
18:28:46 <warlord> It just gets very complicated.
18:29:25 <lincode> You're telling me...I've already spent several hours doing the research, and I have barely touched the complete tax law system
18:29:36 <warlord> Right..
18:29:40 <lincode> I've managed to at least get all of the tax values that I have to worry about myself.
18:29:50 <lincode> Gives you a fraggin headache man
18:30:34 <warlord> Honestly, what I did was contract out to ADP to do my payroll for me. They sent me the data and I entered it into GnuCash. All I kept track of in GnuCash was the gross salary and corporate tax. I didn't keep track of individual witholdings; I let ADP deal with that (they also gave out the W-2)
18:31:36 <lincode> Well, I don't have the money to pay for it..thats the problem
18:31:50 <lincode> I can't even afford to withold taxes...but I have to do it anyway
18:32:08 <warlord> heh
18:32:12 <lincode> $144 is my literal monthly salary
18:32:14 <warlord> Then you need to charge more.
18:32:33 <lincode> I can't, the payment I get is the most the company is willing to pay
18:32:47 <warlord> $144/month?
18:32:50 <lincode> I simply perform monthly website updates, which takes me 10-30 minutes per month
18:32:59 <warlord> Oh.
18:33:07 <lincode> Its QUITE NICE compensation if you think about it.
18:33:29 <warlord> Geeze, for $1728/year it's barely worth worrying about until April 15th
18:33:34 <lincode> If it wasn't for my wifes income, I'd be totally screwed
18:33:58 <lincode> Nah, I gotta worry about it now..so I don't have to go through all the stress later
18:34:07 <warlord> Well, sure, $300/hr is nice, but only if you get more than 1/2 hour a month ;)
18:34:09 <lincode> I've been able to spread this across a couple months.
18:34:55 <lincode> Luckily, I've finished figuring it all out
18:35:27 <lincode> I'm just trying to get software setup to keep track of numbers for me, and get something setup to help me with the numbers involved in my personal pay..and create paystubs/checks
18:48:13 *** ErKa has quit IRC
18:49:08 <warlord> ok
18:49:20 <warlord> Well, gnucash wont do the paystubs. (although it will allow you to print checks)
18:54:39 *** XiXaQ has joined #gnucash
19:03:01 <lincode> Well, if it can at least print checks that'll be good enough, I can take one of my old job pay stubs and create one.
19:10:44 <lincode> Hmm..
19:11:04 <lincode> How do companies usually come up with Customer Numbers?
19:17:24 <thierry> warlord: I did the WoW you recommended. I splitted the QIF file, with <=2001 in FRF and >=2002 in EUR. First import in EUR is OK. Second import in FRF looks OK. What is visible is that EUR import created "Expenses:Food", then FRF import created "Expenses:Food 2". How to deal with that ? What to do you think of "Expenses:Food" in EUR, and "Expenses:Food:Food FRF". What is the recommended way to deal with those double Food accounts?
19:39:24 *** thierry has quit IRC
19:46:45 <warlord> lincode: I dont think it really matters.
20:10:33 <lincode> Okay, I've added a customer, myself as employee, and an invoice...how come none of the accounts have any values?
20:26:02 <warlord> Did you post the invoice?
20:27:00 <lincode> Not sure..that's what I'm looking into now
20:41:30 <lincode> It looks to be posted. However, I have Tax included in Unit Price, and the sub-total shows $1.27 less then unit price, with $41.27 Tax...how is that possible?
20:41:48 <lincode> Tax in total is 26%
20:50:07 <lincode> Is GnuCash designed to be easily extended?
20:51:05 <lincode> If it's not too complicated to extend it, I could create an addition to it, giving it the ability to create paystubs, and even handle employee taxes (Ofcourse tax percentages would be user entered)
20:55:02 *** ramontayag has joined #gnucash
20:56:43 <jsled> lincode: in some respects it is "designed to be easily extended". in other respects, it's way too hard to build and code for.
20:56:57 <jsled> s/way too hard/way harder than it should be/
20:57:12 <lincode> Hmm
20:57:34 <lincode> Well, not to be offensive...but I personally think it could have been done a lot better.
20:57:45 <jsled> how so?
20:57:56 <lincode> Well, I think the Intuit products have it correct.
20:58:09 <jsled> what's this "it" you speak of?
20:58:34 <lincode> Their products are designed to be a lot more user friendly
20:58:47 <lincode> For instance, I needed no manual or guide to tell me how to use tem.
20:59:21 <lincode> Keeping in mind that I am a computer programmer myself..I just think GnuCash should have been done differently. But like I said, that's just my opinion.
20:59:29 <jsled> sure.
20:59:58 <lincode> I guess the bottom line to me is...was it written for Tax professionals, or for just any home/business user to use?
21:00:03 *** JimRaehl2 has quit IRC
21:00:15 <jsled> it was written by people scratching their various itches.
21:00:37 <jsled> if there was any goal, it was certainly for home/business users.
21:00:47 <jsled> not "tax professionals", heh.
21:01:02 <lincode> Well, tax professionals are who could easily understand the program
21:01:10 <lincode> home/business users would and do have a hard time.
21:01:31 <jsled> some. and some figure it out just fine.
21:01:38 <jsled> but, yeah, it's got a lot of faults.
21:01:52 <lincode> I'd like to recommend the software to others, but I just can't justify it ,as I can barely use it soo far after several hours....
21:02:12 <lincode> It almost makes me want to write another program
21:02:22 <lincode> I'm sorry I just feel that it itself is a problem, not a solution
21:02:42 <lincode> But, I'll still learn it..just because Im stubborn, and don't let software kick my butt lol
21:03:02 <jsled> it's certainly more useful than all that, but I understand.
21:03:35 <lincode> I'm sorry, I'm being too hard on the software.I know it took a lot of time and effort to write
21:04:05 <lincode> It's just frustrating for me...having to learn all the tax law...plus try to find clients/advertise, ect...and still learn how to use a software that is supposed to make it 'easier'
21:04:14 <lincode> Heh, just too many stresses all at once.
21:07:23 <jsled> heh
21:18:37 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
21:23:50 <lincode> Don't worry....I'm going through the guide, and setting everything up as I go...
21:24:21 *** XiXaQ has quit IRC
21:25:44 *** JimRaehl2 has quit IRC
21:26:13 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
21:26:39 <warlord> lincode: I do understand. I wrote the business features specifically for my own use.
21:26:51 <lincode> Ahh
21:27:26 <lincode> Well, like I said..I wouldn't be using them if my local government wasn't soo money-money. Can't make a buck without them wanting a piece of it.
21:27:46 <warlord> heh
22:03:17 *** warlord has quit IRC
22:05:37 *** ramontayag has quit IRC
22:18:03 <lincode> Good god!
22:18:19 <lincode> Even for personal finances this software is complex as heck....and I'm even using the guide
22:18:34 <lincode> I've spent 4 hours on this already...
22:18:53 <lincode> This is unacceptable
22:19:01 *** lincode has left #gnucash