2009-11-02 GnuCash IRC logs
00:05:11 <shade304> me
00:05:14 <shade304> als
00:05:15 <shade304> o
00:06:22 <shade304> i think i have broken my file, i blanked the invoice, and changed the customer name, now it is still linked to her account, although it is inactive and not posted, but it is still in the register marked read only
00:06:33 <shade304> i wish I had a backup from an hour ago!
00:06:39 <shade304> thanks
00:21:24 *** shade304 has quit IRC
00:33:59 *** localhost1 has quit IRC
00:47:36 *** Simpleton has quit IRC
00:58:57 *** localhost has joined #gnucash
01:09:19 *** localhost1 has joined #gnucash
01:12:14 *** localhost1 has quit IRC
01:16:41 *** localhost has quit IRC
01:39:11 *** ottoshmidt has joined #gnucash
02:04:45 *** message144 has joined #gnucash
02:17:53 *** ottoshmidt has quit IRC
02:21:31 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
02:55:45 *** message144 has quit IRC
03:39:00 *** ottoshmidt has joined #gnucash
03:45:00 *** bentob0x has joined #gnucash
03:56:32 *** ottoshmidt has quit IRC
04:17:54 *** ErKa has quit IRC
04:18:54 *** daedeloth has joined #gnucash
05:08:02 *** ottoshmidt has joined #gnucash
05:54:28 *** ottoshmidt has quit IRC
05:57:10 *** loxs_wrk has joined #gnucash
05:58:34 <loxs_wrk> hi. is there any "real" reason for the existence of split transactions? I am writing an accounting application and I wonder whether there is any point at all in split transactions
05:58:56 <loxs_wrk> isn't it better to just use several transactions instead of a split transaction?
05:59:16 <loxs_wrk> I use gnucash for my own personal needs and I have never needed split transactions
06:04:22 *** ottoshmidt has joined #gnucash
06:16:11 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
06:25:37 *** ottoshmidt has quit IRC
06:29:27 <kimmo> loxs, there's lots of reasons
06:54:43 <aba> loxs_wrk: it depends on what scale level you run that application.
06:55:07 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
06:56:01 <warlord> loxs_wrk: yes, I go to the a Super Target and buy groceries, electronics, and clothing all at the same time. I want to keep track of that separately. Or I go to dinner, put it all on my credit card, but the others at the table give me cash for their part.
07:10:34 <daedeloth> I'm wondering how to handle an international invoice that doesn't have any VAT on it. According to my books I should apply VAT myself and withdraw it afterwards
07:14:41 <daedeloth> So, basically, I have to add vat to my "vat to pay" and add vat to "vat to withdraw"
07:16:12 <daedeloth> any idea how I could do this in gnucash in one transaction? or should I do it by hand? :)
07:18:44 <warlord> Umm.. add VAT to the Invoice?
07:21:35 <daedeloth> yea, already did that
07:22:00 <loxs_wrk> warlord, well, the cases you describe are something like a "financial document", usually an invoice. My system will for sure keep track of all kinds of financial documents. And then keeping track of what happens "as a whole" is not a problem.
07:22:36 <loxs_wrk> then you have lots of transactions associated with an accounting document
07:23:07 <warlord> loxs_wrk: It's not at all an invoice.
07:23:14 <warlord> It's a transaction.
07:23:25 <warlord> (and technically an INVOICE should be a single split transaction too!)
07:23:46 <loxs_wrk> well, then it actually depends on the point of view
07:24:06 <warlord> Who's?
07:24:19 <daedeloth> Is it possible to both add and withdraw VAT from an invoice (incoming) transaction?
07:24:30 <loxs_wrk> for me the accounting document is the whole and single "simple" transactions are its parts
07:24:53 <loxs_wrk> daedeloth, why would you do such a thing?
07:25:07 <daedeloth> I've bought something from UK
07:25:27 <daedeloth> so I have to add VAT myself, but I can withdraw it as well
07:25:50 <daedeloth> so, the total should still be the amount without vat, but it should make notice in my "vat to pay" and "vat to withdraw"
07:26:02 <daedeloth> (sorry, I'm not that good in english ;))
07:26:29 <loxs_wrk> that seems like several transactions to me... (I guess you pay the VAT to the governmen some time after you buy that something)
07:26:57 <daedeloth> not sure, I think it should be one transaction, but well, I'll just give it a silly name
07:27:28 <daedeloth> I guess it's not possible to change a transaction you automatically added with the "incoming invoice" function?
07:27:59 <loxs_wrk> AFAIK you can edit transactions post-factum
07:28:17 <daedeloth> I can't seem to change the total
07:28:17 <loxs_wrk> just find the affected account and do it
07:28:40 <loxs_wrk> hmm, yeah, one of the reasons I don't like the split transactions
07:28:47 <daedeloth> :)
07:28:55 <daedeloth> well, never mind, I'll make another transaction for it
07:29:04 <daedeloth> now lunch, thanks for the help :)
07:31:27 <warlord> daedeloth: no, you cannot hand-modify an invoice txn
07:32:15 <warlord> loxs_wrk: what you're calling an "accounting document" is what GnuCash calls a Transaction. What you're calling a transaction is what GnuCash calls a Split (well, sort of, but not quite)
07:33:15 <loxs_wrk> warlord, hmm... could you show me some database models for these things please?
07:33:48 <loxs_wrk> warlord, I didn't even know that such a term exists in gnucash (Split)
07:33:53 <warlord> Txn -> {Collection: Split}
07:34:33 <warlord> A Split is a binding of Txn, Amount, and Account. A Txn is basically a list of Splits splits, description, dates, etc.
07:34:49 <loxs_wrk> warlord, is this an official term (split) in English?
07:34:51 <warlord> A balanced transaction has sum(Splits->Amount) == 0
07:35:01 <warlord> define "official term"?
07:35:19 <loxs_wrk> used by the accountants in the USA or the UK
07:35:33 <loxs_wrk> (I'm not a native speaker and I don't know, sorry)
07:35:46 <warlord> I'm not an accountant, so I don't know.
07:36:02 <warlord> It's certainly a term used by Intuit.
07:36:20 <loxs_wrk> is this a person?
07:36:37 <warlord> It's a company. They make this little-used piece of software called Quicken, and Quickbooks.
07:36:41 <warlord> You might have heard of it?
07:36:50 <loxs_wrk> ah yeah :)
07:36:53 <warlord> :)
07:37:14 <loxs_wrk> so then the whole problem was my misunderstanding of what you call a transaction
07:37:24 <warlord> Possibly...
07:37:30 <loxs_wrk> now the whole thing makes much more sense
07:37:35 <warlord> LOL
07:37:45 <loxs_wrk> and probably you don't use "complex splits"?
07:38:02 <loxs_wrk> (more than two accounts at the same time)?
07:38:02 <warlord> I have no idea what a "complex split" is...
07:38:25 <warlord> That's easy.. You just have >2 Splits in a Txn
07:38:44 <warlord> a standard basic balanced transaction has exactly 2 splits.
07:38:51 <warlord> a "split transaction" has > 2
07:38:58 <loxs_wrk> warlord, so the split is not actually the double entry, but just a single entry in one single account?
07:39:05 <warlord> Right.
07:39:19 <warlord> The double-entry part is the Txn that holds the splits together, where the sum of all split amounts == 0
07:39:22 <loxs_wrk> and it can be either a debit or a credit?
07:39:36 <warlord> yes, the split amount can be + or -
07:39:58 <loxs_wrk> and you use + for debit?
07:40:17 <warlord> I think so...
07:40:54 <loxs_wrk> ok, thanks for the help
07:42:25 <warlord> you're welcome. :)
07:45:56 <loxs_wrk> warlord, one more question, what numbers does gnucash use internally? (floats/decimals or integers)?
07:46:50 <warlord> rationals
07:49:43 <loxs_wrk> and what is the reason behind this?
08:01:25 <warlord> Ummm.. you'd have to ask the people that did it.. Which happened over a decade ago.. and they're no longer around.
08:05:22 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
08:05:50 <loxs_wrk> warlord, did you ever have any problems with this way of doing math? (I ran in float problems very fast)
08:07:38 <warlord> There were some overrun issues when you need a large fraction.
08:08:09 <warlord> We wrote some 128-bit math to fix some of it, but there are still issues with large-denominiation fractions.
08:08:30 <warlord> Honestly, if I were to do it again I'd used fixed-point math.
08:08:41 <warlord> s/again/over
08:10:01 <daedeloth> alright, I'm completely lost.
08:11:06 <warlord> Can't help you there.
08:11:23 <warlord> But I'm afraid I need to log out for now. Need to head to the airport. TTFN. good luck.
08:11:38 <daedeloth> never mind, trying to figure it out. My head starts spinning when I have to think about passive & active :p
08:12:02 <warlord> heh
08:12:13 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
08:12:16 <daedeloth> ah, ok, found it, vat is not a cost ;)
08:14:15 <warlord> :)
08:14:18 <warlord> Anyways, later.
08:14:21 *** JimRaehl2 has left #gnucash
08:14:25 *** warlord has quit IRC
08:14:41 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
08:28:31 *** ErKa has quit IRC
08:29:34 *** localhost has joined #gnucash
08:50:02 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
09:21:40 *** DanC has joined #gnucash
09:33:59 *** mark has joined #gnucash
09:34:01 *** mark has left #gnucash
09:55:43 *** loxs_wrk has quit IRC
10:30:31 *** nijm1 has joined #gnucash
10:33:25 *** nijm has quit IRC
11:34:11 *** feisar has joined #gnucash
12:33:21 *** ErKa has quit IRC
12:49:11 *** bentob0x has quit IRC
12:50:02 *** DanC has quit IRC
12:51:09 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
12:58:15 *** Simon has quit IRC
12:58:30 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
13:32:37 *** feisar has quit IRC
13:45:18 *** todd_ has quit IRC
13:45:20 *** todd has joined #gnucash
15:26:41 <kimmo> hmmh
15:48:43 *** ErKa has quit IRC
15:55:54 *** nijm1 has quit IRC
16:18:54 *** daedeloth has quit IRC
16:37:45 *** DanC has joined #gnucash
17:04:07 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** jsled has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** fbond has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** todd has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** Simon has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** kfo has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** roe_ has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** mishehu has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** Odd_Bloke has joined #gnucash
17:10:18 *** irc.eagle.y.se sets mode: +o jsled
17:10:59 *** fbond_ has joined #gnucash
17:15:04 *** DanC has quit IRC
17:20:30 *** aba has joined #gnucash
17:30:34 *** przemmaj has joined #gnucash
17:36:58 *** kfo_ has joined #gnucash
17:38:06 *** Nyger has joined #gnucash
17:43:06 *** Nyger has quit IRC
17:44:16 *** DanC has joined #gnucash
17:45:24 *** kfo has quit IRC
17:45:25 *** kfo_ is now known as kfo
17:46:58 *** Nyger has joined #gnucash
17:47:06 <Nyger> hi
17:49:59 *** DanC has left #gnucash
17:56:48 <Nyger> I want to create a custom report but "File-Create Report" doesn't appear - best would be if i could copy existing reports
18:00:24 <Nyger> would be glad if i received some help
18:04:18 <jsled> Nyger: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports
18:15:51 <Nyger> but I can change a report by edit-report properties
18:16:13 <Nyger> can't i copy a report and change it without changing config files?
18:16:17 <Nyger> from the gui?
18:18:46 <jsled> Nyger: change the name of the report in the options, and the "Add Report" action (toolbar button and File > Add Report) will become available.
18:23:37 <Nyger> ah thanks
18:30:49 <Nyger> works fine :)
18:30:49 <Nyger> thx a lot
18:31:21 <jsled> you're welcome
18:34:09 <Nyger> wish you a good night
18:34:12 *** Nyger has left #gnucash
19:22:09 *** cortana has joined #gnucash
20:34:39 *** cortana has quit IRC
21:21:23 *** JimRaehl2 has left #gnucash
21:21:55 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
21:32:08 *** Michael1 has joined #gnucash
21:52:13 *** Michael1 has left #gnucash
23:22:28 *** Michael1 has joined #gnucash
23:28:36 *** Michael1 has left #gnucash