2009-10-09 GnuCash IRC logs

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03:45:32 <muczy> "xaccAccountGetBalance acct" gives me things like: 0/1 for 0, and 2000/100 for 20
03:45:48 <muczy> is there a function, that convert these to human-readable?
03:49:01 <muczy> gnc_numeric_to_double perhaps?
03:49:52 <muczy> ah, this is it
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08:32:15 <warlord> muczy: Actually, you can you xaccAccountPrintAmount (or something like that)
08:48:41 <muczy> i see, thanks
09:04:05 <warlord> You dont want to convert to double -- you can lose precision/data that way
09:07:13 <muczy> now i would like to get transactions belonging to an account
09:07:29 <muczy> but i don't really get these spits and transactions...
09:07:32 <muczy> http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/gnome2/globals_func_0x78.html#index_x
09:07:50 <warlord> Neil's website is way out of date..
09:07:59 <muczy> according to this, if i only know the account, i can only get the splits
09:08:05 <muczy> hmmm...
09:08:18 <warlord> A transaction is a collection of splits. A split is a debit or credit. In a balanced transaction the debits == credits.
09:08:34 <warlord> Correct.. But then you can get the transactions from the accounts.
09:09:51 <muczy> ah
09:09:56 <muczy> http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/index.html
09:10:08 <muczy> is there a reference somewhere here?
09:11:38 <muczy> http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/texi/gnucash-design_4.html#SEC87
09:11:45 <muczy> i can only see xaccAccountGetSplitList
09:12:10 <muczy> so the question: how can i get transactions if i only know the account?
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09:19:00 <muczy> warlord: can you give me a reference api, or something, that i can use?
09:20:06 <warlord> There are multiple ways. One is that you can iterate over the Splits and get each split's parent. Another is just use a Query. Why do you need the transaction list?
09:22:13 <muczy> the parent of a split is an account, isn't it?
09:22:25 <muczy> i must write az csv exporter
09:22:30 <muczy> *a
09:22:41 <muczy> query is something new to me
09:23:33 <warlord> Transaction * xaccSplitGetParent (const Split *split);
09:23:59 <warlord> No, the parent of a Split is the Txn.
09:24:09 <warlord> The Acct is the Split Account.
09:24:17 <muczy> ah
09:24:25 <muczy> i see
09:33:09 <CaMason> Hi guys. I'm just getting used to GNUCash (and accounting in general). For my 'home' accounts, I do some 'mystery shopping', of which there are expenses that I am paid
09:33:19 <CaMason> would I be right in thinking this is an accounts receivable account?
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09:55:35 <warlord> CaMason: I wouldn't use AR for that. Just use a regular asset account for "Mystery Shopping". Instead of Cash->Expenses:XXX you would go Cash->Mystery Shopping, and then when you get reimbursed you can reverse it.
09:56:27 <CaMason> I do send invoices for the reimbursements btw
09:56:48 <CaMason> FYI I'm self employed
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09:59:38 <CaMason> basically, I will invoice for the assignment fee, and the assignment expenses. Those expenses are paid from my bank accounts at the time of the assignment
10:05:43 <warlord> Ah, then .... maybe.
10:07:08 <CaMason> I think I should then have different accounts for the fee and expenses
10:08:48 <CaMason> actually, not that side. Say for an assignment, I spend ｣50, but ｣20 of that was extra and wont be reimbursed. Would I 'split' that transaction? Possibly ｣30 in mystery shopping, and ｣20 in 'dining'
10:13:27 <warlord> Yes
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10:33:51 <CaMason> hmm, I messed up inputting that
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11:47:15 <CaMason> when I create an item in 'accounts receivable', I get a 'transfer' of 'imbalance GBP'
11:47:56 <CaMason> basically I wanted to have an account that shows a particular client owes me money, that I've invoiced
11:47:58 <warlord> CaMason: How do you "create an item in AR"?
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11:48:16 <warlord> AR accounts are not for hand-input. They are only to be used with the full business features.
11:48:27 <CaMason> ok. Well I dont want to bother will all of that
11:49:15 <warlord> Then you can't use AR, and you can't use the Aging reports.
11:49:18 <warlord> It's all or nothing.
11:51:21 <CaMason> ok well that makes sense. So how do I go about just having these 'due payments' recorded?
11:52:12 <CaMason> just have an expenses and income account for that type?
11:54:15 <warlord> Like I said originally, use an Asset account for the amounts that you expect to get reimbursed.
11:54:56 <CaMason> but that's always asking for a 'transfer' account. Obviously I'm missing a concept here
11:56:20 <warlord> Yes, you are.. Double-Entry-Accounting 101. Have you read the Concepts & Tutorial Guide?
11:56:51 <CaMason> yes, and I've been inputting all of my entries and it balances. Just slightly confused on this one issue
11:58:14 <warlord> each transaction models money moving from one account to another. One account is the current account register, the other is the transfer account.
11:58:35 <warlord> You need to tell it both ends.
11:58:40 <warlord> (it can only guess one)
11:59:15 <CaMason> sure. So, I go to the shop, I spend ｣50. I have Expenses->Mystery Shopping, of ｣50, comes out of my Assets->Current Account
12:00:20 <CaMason> So if I then add an entry of ｣50 in Assets->Mystery Shopping, what would be the transfer account?
12:01:22 <jsled> Expenses->Mystery Shopping.
12:01:28 <jsled> But, it's the same single transaction
12:01:31 <jsled> it has two splits.
12:01:34 <jsled> One for each of thsoe accounts.
12:01:49 <jsled> in the view you're likely in, you only see the "other" Split.
12:03:27 <jsled> If you're really putting ﾂ､50 into your Asset account 窶ｦ then it's either a transfer from another Asset account, or from Income.
12:04:08 <warlord> or a rebate from expense.
12:05:48 <CaMason> So I have Assets->Mystery Shopping, Expenses->Mystery Shopping, Incoming->Mystery Shopping. Those correct?
12:06:16 <jsled> Are those accounts?
12:06:21 <CaMason> yes
12:06:32 <CaMason> incoming=income, sorry
12:06:39 <jsled> Ah. "->" is usuall "transfer" around here. Use ":", maybe. ;)
12:06:44 <CaMason> ah, ok :)
12:06:56 <jsled> Yeah, those could be fine accounts for this sort of thing.
12:07:27 <CaMason> ok. so I go to the visit, and I have ｣40 of expenses, and I'm due ｣10 fee from doing it
12:07:48 <CaMason> The money has come out of my bank, ｣40
12:08:05 <CaMason> Which account should I open?
12:08:48 <warlord> always enter transactions from the asset or liability.
12:09:34 <CaMason> ok. So I've entered Assets:Mystery Shopping, added a description of 'My Visit'
12:10:18 <CaMason> would I account for the ｣10 fee as well as the ｣40 expenses here?
12:11:10 <CaMason> I appreciate the help on this. I think once I've cracked this I'll be sorted
12:11:54 <jsled> you should probably account for two transactions: the one you make, and the one wherein they reimburse/pay you.
12:12:15 <jsled> So, from Assets:Mystery Shopping, it'd be against Expsense:MS for the ﾂ､40.
12:13:11 <CaMason> increase or decreasE?
12:13:35 <CaMason> decrease I'd say
12:13:58 <jsled> well, it's a withdrawl from the Asset account
12:14:16 <jsled> Credit/debit and increase/decrease can be counter-intuitive in double-entry.
12:14:30 <CaMason> ok. Those are the labels I have on screen :s
12:14:48 <CaMason> but yes, it's a withdrawl from the account, so I need to decrease the balance
12:15:07 <jsled> Hrm... just an "Asset" account, then? You might want ot make it type=bank, I believe, to get the proper labels.
12:15:37 <CaMason> ok done
12:16:00 <CaMason> now Assets:Mystery Shopping shows balance of -｣40, and Expenses:Mystery Shopping shows ｣40
12:16:26 <CaMason> now they've paid me ｣50, which includes ｣10 fee for me
12:17:05 <CaMason> open up `Assets:Mystery Shopping` again?
12:17:30 <jsled> Well 窶ｦ there's a couple of ways to do it, I guess.
12:18:21 <jsled> I'd probably do the ﾂ､40 repayment as a rebate against the Assets:MS/Expenses:MS 窶ｦ and the ﾂ､10 as Income:MS/Assets:Checking 窶ｦ either as two transactions or part of the same.
12:18:57 <jsled> but as those Expenses aren't really yours, I'd want that account to have a 0 balance so long as everything's been reimbursed.
12:19:13 <jsled> s/yours/mine/ to keep the perspective straight
12:19:48 <CaMason> "that account" being Assets:Mystery Shopping ?
12:20:03 <jsled> No, Expenses:MS.
12:20:14 <jsled> Assets:MS would probably have a 0 balance, too.
12:20:16 <CaMason> hm yes.
12:20:30 <CaMason> I'd like Assets:MS and Expenses:MS to both be 0 after this exercise
12:20:46 <CaMason> then I'd have Income:MS as ｣10
12:20:47 <jsled> Though it's important to note that unless you have a separate debit-card or account strictly for this endeavor, "Assets:MS" is really more of a virtual account.
12:20:59 <CaMason> yes that I understand :)
12:21:25 <CaMason> it's there for me to know at any point that I am owed ｣x from the 'bank of mysery shopping'
12:24:15 <gxti> misery shopping? you can get that for free, you know.
12:24:24 <CaMason> xD
12:29:52 <CaMason> hm I'm always left with one account unbalanced
12:31:14 <warlord> CaMason: then you're not entering all the splits correctly.. OR the accounts are in different currencies.
12:31:52 <CaMason> no doubt I'm entering the splits incorrectly
12:33:24 <CaMason> it's confusing because ｣50 hits my checking account
12:33:55 <CaMason> 10 can go to income, but I have Expenses:MS as ｣40 and Assets:MS as -｣40
12:36:15 <jsled> "come from" income. Think of Income accounts as Sources.
12:36:18 <CaMason> am I right in thinking I can't have both Assets:Mystery Shopping, and Expenses:Mystery Shopping, and have them both at 0
12:36:23 <jsled> (and Expense accounts in Sinks)
12:36:52 <CaMason> ok yes
12:37:02 <jsled> If you want to represent the full ﾂ､50 going into your checking account, I think it'll be hard to have Expenses:MS, too.
12:37:14 <jsled> You'll instead need to treat Assets:MS as a pseudo A/R account.
12:37:25 <jsled> And just do transactions between Income:MS, Assets:Checking and Assets:MS.
12:37:43 <jsled> which is a valid way to do it, imho.
12:38:06 <CaMason> right, that is making sense and seems logical to me
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12:41:34 <CaMason> ok I've got it :)
12:43:13 <CaMason> I'm going to move Assets:MS to Expenses:MS
12:43:32 <CaMason> as it makes more sense to me. It's an expense at a point in time, and is then rebated, and is no longer an expense
12:50:33 <CaMason> that works out nicely. Thanks guys :)
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17:03:28 <CaMason> meh I need to sign up to submit a bug
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17:45:19 <ecolitan> will removing chipcardd4 break gnucash from working?
18:01:37 <warlord> it shouldnt.
18:01:44 <warlord> we dont link against it directly.
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20:26:23 <sandeen> hey folks - I have a gnucash(1) file that gnucash2 won't open. Any suggestions for figuring out the problem? ... osx binary, perhaps launching it from the console will give a hint on stdout...?
20:32:19 <sandeen> ... got a --debug log now what to look for ... :)
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