2009-06-13 GnuCash IRC logs

00:00:08 <warlord> Oh.
00:00:26 <warlord> Yeah, you might need to write some code to do that. Sorry.
00:01:05 <IdeAlEss> that is okay, I thought I would ask before setting up a triple condition find each time. :-)
00:01:59 <warlord> Have you tried exiting gnucash and re-starting it (without closing the resulting register search window?)
00:02:57 <IdeAlEss> no, I haven't I will right now though.
00:03:54 <warlord> Run the query, then add a txn, then save/quit, then restart and check what's there on startup. (then you can delete the 'test' txn)
00:08:11 <IdeAlEss> sorry, I had to run an error. When I relaunch the find tab is no longer there.
00:09:35 <IdeAlEss> I would just use a transaction report if there was a way to sort on "Action" I don't mind doing it the long way. Just thought I would check.
00:11:24 <warlord> Again, a patch would be gladly accepted.
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00:12:55 <IdeAlEss> :-) A skill I wish I had!
00:16:50 <warlord> Scheme is really simple to learn..
00:18:14 <IdeAlEss> I am sure I could. I don't have the time to take it on. We have a 3 year old, a 1 year old, and one due in Dec. Not to mention my full-time job and other duties. :-) Someday hopefully!
00:23:51 <warlord> Fair enough.
00:52:10 <warlord> Anyways, bedtime for me.
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02:15:16 <philsdutchie_> I am using Gnucash 2.2.9 under ubuntu. I cannot get quotes for currencies. For stocks the quotes are ok
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04:36:01 <[Guy]> johnwilson, warlord-afk: the Ubuntu package is called libfinance-quote-perl, fwiw
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07:08:51 <prakashr> is there a way i can set up warnings (for ex. warn me if my savings account is below some value etc.)
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08:31:45 <warlord> prakashr: nope, sorry.
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09:15:55 <warlord> yay, my daily-build refactor succeeded..
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10:06:38 <warlord> darn -- tag builds don't work because of the profile... Hard to get it to rebuild the deps...
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10:26:55 <warlord> Aha... Okay, removing the profile gets it to build.. let's see if it completes in a few hours...
10:27:07 <warlord> (if so I'll commit the changes)
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11:09:40 <warlord> DAMN. Failed on 'hh'
11:16:06 <warlord> Okay, point that at the base version.
11:17:14 <JimRaehl2> I've been trying to setup building Gnucash on Windows 2000. After several restarts (possibly due to races), the build has hit an error with the message: Extracting sqlite-amalgamation-3.6.1.tar.gz ... tar: Child died with signal 13. This appears to be a permission problem, per http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2002-02/msg01243.html
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11:18:03 <JimRaehl2> Originally I had the /soft folder on C: but copying it to O: results in the same error. Anyone have any ideas for a workaround?
11:18:30 <warlord> JimRaehl2: nope. Do our daily builds not work for you?
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11:19:33 <Dibbeke> hi, I had a little question concerning bookkeeping with gnucash. I have several invoices and bills from the same entity which I would like to cross away... so far I've actually been cheating, and using my 'courant' (banking) account for it, but it looks horrible, since they don't show up in my bank-account statements. What kind of account should I use to transfer these invoices to bills and is there any official way to do it?
11:20:04 <JimRaehl2> They do nicely, but I'm thinking of someday adding a posted date to the register, since I use posted dates extensively for budgeting - transaction date for the real transaction, posted date to group payments to paychecks.
11:21:47 <Dibbeke> (to elaborate a bit further, I'm treasurer of a student society, and some of my members declare their costs made... instead of depositing it on their bank-accounts, I'd rather use it for payment of their annual membership fees and such)
11:24:18 <JimRaehl2> BTW C is a FAT32 partition, O is NTFS. I added all permissions to Administrator and myself on the O files and even the containing folders, to no avail.
11:25:05 * Dibbeke is gone for 5 minutes, please take a moment to read my question, thank you in advance
11:25:39 <warlord> Dibbeke: Use an asset account, but it could be something like "Assets:Barter" or something like that.
11:26:06 <warlord> JimRaehl2: the date you see /is/ the posted date.
11:26:15 <warlord> there's also "date entered" and "date reconciled"
11:26:48 <warlord> JimRaehl2: sorry, never tried building on win32. I use XP.
11:26:56 <warlord> (for limited values of 'use')
11:27:15 <JimRaehl2> Where do I see "date entered" and "date reconciled" in the register, given I'm looking at the checking window and the expense window.
11:29:23 <warlord> You dont.
11:29:36 <warlord> Date Entered is literally the timestamp that you created the transaction.
11:29:49 <warlord> Date Reconciled is the date that you reconciled the transaction fully.
11:29:58 <warlord> Those dates aren't visible (and shouldn't be editable either)
11:29:59 <Dibbeke> warlord: Barter... ok, I also thought of an asset account, but it still feels a bit strange, as it should always sum to zero
11:30:20 <warlord> Dibbeke: right, but still an Asset account is what it wants.
11:30:41 <Dibbeke> warlord: btw, I know you're a gnucash coder, I would be delighted to see a more streamlined invoice and bills system, right now it is sometimes a bit awkward
11:30:48 <Dibbeke> warlord: thank you
11:31:00 <JimRaehl2> If the dates aren't visible, what use are they.
11:31:36 <warlord> Dibbeke: sure, give me 6 months of downtime to work on it when I dont have a real job keeping me busy..... ;)
11:32:05 <warlord> JimRaehl2: they are used internally for things like sorting, reporting, sum computation, etc.
11:32:17 <warlord> The GUIDs aren't visible, either.. Are you going to ask what use THOSE are too?
11:32:23 <Dibbeke> warlord, I understand... maybe I could help you making some UML diagrams?
11:32:33 <warlord> no.
11:32:38 <warlord> diagrams aren't useful.
11:32:41 <warlord> CODE is useful.
11:35:40 <Dibbeke> warlord: I've worked on several large projects, and I've seen a tremendous speed and quality increase thanks to graphical representations, as they communicate better and allow better highlevel understanding and decision making, but I'm sure we could talk about this for ages, I respectfully disagree :)
11:36:22 <warlord> I dont need pictures to explain to me how the code works; I did write it all after all.
11:36:56 <warlord> And most of the flow that needs to happen or be fixed can't really be explained with pictures, either. For example, show me a diagram of a "Phrase Wheel"
11:37:10 <Dibbeke> a phrase wheel?
11:37:47 <warlord> Yeah, something where you start typing, and then after a short pause it pops up a window with the choices that match what you've typed.
11:38:21 <warlord> (for easier entry of customers, vendors, etc -- instead of having to go through the search process every time)
11:38:26 <Dibbeke> a simple state diagram would allow this
11:38:52 <JimRaehl2> I see. So the only editable date in the database is the "posted" date. I was hoping maybe there was more than one possibly editable date, which would fit nicely in the first field of the second row of a split register. I was looking at https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2003-August/010279.html which suggests dates in the splits, which would be nice for credit cards which have date bill received, date payment mailed, transaction
11:38:52 <JimRaehl2> date at the store, posted date of that transaction, posted date of the payment. I currently use a Notes window in my old finance program, but if I understand Gnucash Notes correctly, it's a one-liner which is not nearly as useful.
11:38:55 <warlord> But WHY? You don't need a state diagram to explain: "Use a phrase wheel instead of the current search-only input method"
11:39:45 <warlord> JimRaehl2: correct, there are no additional date-fields in the data structures. One could theoretically store a date in the KVPs.
11:40:13 <JimRaehl2> KVP's?
11:40:28 <warlord> yeah, the KVPs
11:40:50 <Dibbeke> warlord, true, you could abstract this away... I'm talking more about high-level design decisions, such as complicated class diagrams and multi-level state diagrams
11:40:52 <warlord> each object has a kvp frame -- you could store it there.
11:41:29 <JimRaehl2> I'd have to read about KVP's, I don't understand what that is.
11:41:43 <warlord> Dibbeke: for a new feature something like that would be fine. I see little point in going back and doing it now when discussing minor improvements.
11:41:44 <Dibbeke> warlord, anyways, I respectfully disagree about not using UML, although I used to be very anti-UML before as well
11:41:53 <warlord> JimRaehl2: go ahead.
11:42:06 <warlord> I'm not anti-UML. I'm anti time-wasting.
11:42:22 <warlord> UML absolutely has it's uses.
11:42:25 <Dibbeke> warlord, yes, me too :)
11:42:29 <warlord> Just not here.
11:42:40 <warlord> (at least not based on what you've said so far)
11:42:56 <warlord> Besides, have you looked at the doxygen output?
11:43:04 <Dibbeke> warlord, but I think the invoice system needs a redesign... for example, transactions for a group of people
11:43:05 <warlord> JimRaehl2: I suggest you do that, too.
11:43:17 <Dibbeke> warlord, it's quite good, I agree, but too low-level :)
11:43:20 <warlord> What do you mean?
11:43:22 <JimRaehl2> Anyway, the task sounds more than I would have time for, since it's already taken most of a year just to figure out what Gnucash can and cannot do, at a few minutes a week.
11:43:29 <warlord> "transactions for a group of people" means...??
11:43:41 <warlord> JimRaehl2: sorry..
11:44:23 <Dibbeke> warlord, well, in my case, I have 60 members, each of whom has an identical half-yearly invoice: their membership fees, the same goes for group activities and such
11:44:36 <Dibbeke> warlord, right now it is a hell to enter each invoice for each member
11:45:55 <warlord> Dibbeke: Right, what you want isn't a single transaction/invoice to multiple people; what you want is the ability to generate multiple invoices to multiple people based off a single template.. Or a quick "duplicate invoice" process.
11:46:29 <Dibbeke> warlord: sth like that, and also allow it to do repeated invoices
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11:47:22 <Dibbeke> warlord: or combine payment of multiple invoices
11:47:24 <warlord> Tying invoicing into SX would be.... hard.
11:47:37 <warlord> You can already combine the payment of multiple invoices (from the same customer)
11:47:46 <Dibbeke> warlord: often a client pays multiple invoices at the same time, I'd like to use a split transaction for that
11:47:54 <Dibbeke> warlord: how?
11:47:57 <warlord> .. that's been there since.. 1.8.0
11:48:14 <warlord> Just enter in the total payment and it will do it. The "invoice" choice is optional.
11:48:27 <warlord> It creates a split txn for you.
11:48:29 <warlord> It always has.
11:48:45 <warlord> well, actually, at first it used balancing transactions... but that was changed to be a split txn.
11:49:15 <Dibbeke> so, when I go to 'pay invoice'', and I enter more than the invoice actually is, it starts to find new invoices?
11:49:36 <warlord> Yep.
11:49:38 <warlord> FIFO
11:49:46 <warlord> (this is all in the documenation -- haven't you read the docs?)
11:49:52 <Dibbeke> warlord, I read most of the docs
11:50:06 <Dibbeke> warlord, but this feature is not really intuitive
11:50:53 <warlord> Again, the "invoice" entry on that page is optional -- all it does is put the selected invoice at the front of the FIFO and inserts the invoice balance as the suggested amount. But it's optional.
11:51:08 <warlord> If you don't enter it gnucash will still use a FIFO for the customer payment.
11:51:19 <warlord> Payments apply to a customer, not a vendor.
11:52:26 <Dibbeke> warlord, I'm asked to do some cooking here
11:52:36 <Dibbeke> warlord, I'll look into it later, sorry to interrupt
11:52:41 <warlord> Enjoy your food.
11:52:52 <Dibbeke> warlord, thanks, have a good day
11:52:53 * warlord is working on the win32 automated build system.
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11:55:03 <Paul> Hi, does anyone know of a good open source package for a non-profit organisation? Need to be able to do job costing. I dont think gnucash does, but hoping you guys might point me in the right direction :)
11:56:55 <warlord> Sorry, paul, I don't have a good suggestion for you.
11:57:10 <warlord> GnuCash MIGHT be able to do job-costing by creating an invoice w/o posting it?
11:57:32 <warlord> Er, maybe.. Not sure that's what you're looking for.
11:59:02 <Paul> well it's a charity that's awarded cash for specific purposes, so we need the books to show how specific parts of the charity have had the correct amount of cash spent on them
11:59:24 <Paul> i'm checking out money tools, which supports budgets
11:59:26 <Paul> could work
11:59:29 <Paul> er
11:59:31 <Paul> money dance
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12:00:15 <Paul> cheers for help anyway :)
12:00:17 <warlord> You might try asking on gnucash-user -- there may be people using gnucash that way.
12:00:23 <warlord> (the mailing list)
12:01:31 <Paul> maybe it's possible, but it's not gonna be me using the package, i'm hoping to set them up with something easy to use, i'm willing to pay if i have to, but checking open source first
12:01:44 <warlord> Gotcha.
12:02:03 <Paul> man that's bad punctuation in that sentence
12:02:08 <Paul> comma comma comma comma
12:03:40 <johnwilson> Still having trouble getting Finance::Quote to work. Here is the output when I run gnc-fq-update: john@john-laptop:~/.gnucash$ gnc-fq-update
12:03:42 <johnwilson> You probably need to be root before running gnc-fq-update.
12:03:42 <johnwilson> Do you want to continue? (y/n) y
12:03:42 <johnwilson> CPAN: Storable loaded ok (v2.18)
12:03:42 <johnwilson> Going to read /home/john/.cpan/Metadata
12:03:42 <johnwilson> Database was generated on Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
12:03:44 <johnwilson> LWP is up to date (5.826).
12:03:46 <johnwilson> Date::Manip is up to date (5.54).
12:03:48 <johnwilson> HTML::Parser is up to date (3.60).
12:03:50 <johnwilson> HTML::TableExtract is up to date (2.10).
12:03:52 <johnwilson> Crypt::SSLeay is up to date (0.57).
12:03:54 <johnwilson> Finance::Quote is up to date (1.16). Similarly when I run gnc-fq-dump: john@john-laptop:~/.gnucash$ gnc-fq-dump
12:03:57 <johnwilson> Usage: /usr/bin/gnc-fq-dump <quote-source> [-v] <stock> [<stock> ...]
12:03:59 <johnwilson> Available sources are:
12:04:01 <johnwilson> vwd yahoo_nz australia amfiindia usfedbonds aex_options canada yahoo adig aiahk yahoo_australia unionfunds lerevenu asia tsx indiamutual known_currencies fidelity_direct goldmoney tdwaterhouse trustnet ftportfolios_direct cominvest ftportfolios morningstar tdefunds za aex_futures fundlibrary stockhousecanada_fund yahoo_europe platinum maninv tsp financecanada usa france troweprice nasdaq bmonesbittburns yahoo_asia tiaacref tr
12:07:31 <warlord> johnwilson: please use pastbin for more than a couple lines..
12:09:27 <warlord> johnwilson: have you tried asking on gnucash-user or the f::q list? There are known issues with certain functions. Have you tried using gnc-fq-dump to test?
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12:19:52 <JimRaehl2> Warlord: is the Action field in a split used internally for any purpose? If not, date text could be entered there, or even action + date, thus fulfilling what I need. The field is expandable, so no problem seeing whatever is entered there.
12:20:13 <warlord> It's used in stock transactions.
12:20:39 <warlord> Also, it's stored as a string, not as a timestamp, which could be problematic.
12:21:28 <warlord> back in a bit...
12:29:45 <johnwilson> Used gnc-fq-dump and it seems to work. Will try gnucash-user list
12:42:38 <warlord> define "seems to work"?
12:42:44 <warlord> Did it give you valid quote info?
12:44:25 <johnwilson> If you back up the screen the output states Available sources are: vwd yahoo_nz etc. The quote info has been valid in the past
12:53:58 <warlord> johnwilson: that's not sufficient. run gnc-fq-dump with your quote parameters to see if you're entering in correct data, and if the scraper is working.
12:54:16 <warlord> All you showed me above is that the f::q source is loaded, not that quotes work.
12:55:40 <johnwilson> How do I set the stock parameters?
13:00:37 <johnwilson> In Gnucash I have used the Tools>Security Editor> and set up the stocks to get online quotes from multiple sources etc. Is there something I need to do to F::Q?
13:02:14 <warlord> <johnwilson> Usage: /usr/bin/gnc-fq-dump <quote-source> [-v] <stock> [<stock> ...]
13:02:28 <warlord> You clearly didn't read what you posted!
13:08:48 <warlord> DAMN... Something wrong with AqB..
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13:22:27 <warlord> Where is cstim when I need him?
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13:49:04 <warlord> @op chris
13:49:04 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
13:49:10 <warlord> @op linas
13:49:10 *** gncbot sets mode: +o linas
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14:37:52 <sporulate> Hi! I'm a new gnucash user. I would like to know if I can increase the precision that gnucash uses.
14:38:26 <warlord> depends on "precision of what". But probably not.
14:38:35 <sporulate> Example: I have a transaction over 99.99 and would like to split it up in to equal parts.
14:38:50 <sporulate> At the moment I can only split it up to 50 and 49.99.
14:39:36 <warlord> 99.99 of what?
14:40:13 <sporulate> USD.
14:40:20 <warlord> No
14:41:22 <warlord> It's very very hard to change the precision of currencies.
14:41:48 <warlord> You could create a commodity that's effectively 1:1 with USD, but you'd then need to deal with mutual fund accounts.
14:42:58 <sporulate> No, that's too complicated.
14:43:56 <warlord> Well, that's pretty much your only option I'm afraid.
14:45:05 <sporulate> No, I simply won't do it and accept the way it works ;-)
14:45:11 <warlord> There's a reason for doing it this way: Let's assume you have three accounts, one account deals with .001, whereas the other two only deal with .01. What happens if you don't properly balance the transaction? There's no place for those extra .001s to go.
14:45:21 <warlord> Well, there's that way too. :)
14:48:13 <sporulate> I just see that I can change the smallest fraction per account! I think that's what I need...
14:48:24 <sporulate> Or did you mean this?
14:48:30 <warlord> I did mean that....
14:48:47 <warlord> But it doesn't really do what you want.
14:53:19 <warlord> @tell cstim looks like the problem is that 3.8.3 uses AC_LIBTOOL_RC whereas it should be using AC_CHECK_TOOL([RC], [windres], [no])
14:53:19 <gncbot> warlord: Error: "RC" is not a valid command.
14:54:06 <warlord> @tell cstim looks like the problem is that 3.8.3 uses AC_LIBTOOL_RC whereas it should be using AC_CHECK_TOOL
14:54:06 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
14:54:38 <warlord> @tell cstim in particular: AC_CHECK_TOOL(RC, windres, no) (with proper m4 quoting, but supybot doesn't like that)
14:54:38 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
14:59:58 <sporulate> At the moment I don't fully understand: As long as one deals with "virtual" transactions, like receivables or debts, doesn't it make sense to allow higher precisions?
15:01:18 <sporulate> Example: I owe someone once 49,995 USD and once 50,995 USD. I have add it up I can pay it in real-life money.
15:01:31 <sporulate> OK...
15:02:06 <warlord> Well, if you owe someone 49 thousand 9 hundred 95 dollars... That's just fine.
15:02:15 <sporulate> Understood why it doesn't work! (You gave the reason above)
15:02:29 <sporulate> :-)
15:02:31 <warlord> If you meant ',' as a decimal... Well, legally you cannot owe someone half a penny.
15:03:17 <sporulate> OK, thanks for your help! Made some things clearer to me...
15:03:25 <warlord> You're welcome.
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15:48:09 <warlord> pwd
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18:16:01 <warlord> @tell cstim I think I solved it..
18:16:01 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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20:06:35 <Rafael> has anybody moved from microsft money to gnucash?
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20:49:13 <Rafael> has anybody moved from microsft money to gnucash?
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21:36:57 <goodger_> \o/
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22:25:45 <warlord> @tell Rafael many people have moved from microsoft money to gnucash. Ask on gnucash-user mailing list.
22:25:45 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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23:18:04 <djd74> gnucash rocks. I just started using it
23:18:33 <warlord> cool
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