2009-03-31 GnuCash IRC logs
00:13:35 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
00:25:38 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
01:41:48 *** hvx has joined #gnucash
02:01:52 *** hvx has quit IRC
02:40:55 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
03:52:07 *** Rolf has quit IRC
04:04:53 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
05:53:22 *** bluefox has quit IRC
06:19:34 *** iamawake has left #gnucash
06:33:29 *** ErKa has quit IRC
06:55:07 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
07:03:57 *** donfede has quit IRC
07:49:25 *** Jimraehl has left #gnucash
08:22:40 *** JimRaehl2 has joined #gnucash
08:48:22 *** bittin has joined #gnucash
08:55:01 *** vitoc has joined #gnucash
09:13:14 *** gncbot` has joined #gnucash
09:14:37 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
09:20:58 *** gncbot has quit IRC
09:32:09 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
09:38:20 *** iamawake has joined #gnucash
09:40:48 *** gncbot` has quit IRC
09:51:05 <warlord> @nick gncbot
09:51:05 <gncbot> warlord: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
09:51:18 *** warlord sets mode: +o gncbot
09:54:35 *** goodger_ has joined #gnucash
09:59:45 *** goodger has quit IRC
10:14:19 *** smacnay has joined #gnucash
10:14:41 <smacnay> Hi, anyone having gnucash crash when closing an invoice?
10:14:53 <warlord> smacnay: upgrade from 2.2.8 to 2.2.9
10:15:10 <smacnay> I can search for an invocie, open it to view, and hit the "Close" button and the entire application crashes.
10:15:18 <smacnay> ok, so this is a known issue?
10:15:23 <warlord> in 2.2.8, yes
10:15:33 <warlord> was fixed a while ago.. 2.2.9 is current.
10:16:42 <smacnay> warlord, ah, my debian repository shows that I am using 2.2.6 right now. Not sure if I should wait for a package or d/l source and compile.
10:16:54 <warlord> No idea.
10:17:03 <warlord> That's up to you.
10:17:16 <smacnay> yes, I will ponder.
10:21:38 <warlord> maybe launchpad has a 2.2.9 package?
10:24:47 <smacnay> warlord, thanks
10:26:44 <smacnay> I can always work and never close a tab - save - close -restart later.... anyway, thanks for letting me know this was an issue.
10:27:49 <warlord> you're welcome..
11:03:28 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:18:22 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
11:25:58 *** vitoc has quit IRC
11:42:40 *** rrittenhouse has joined #gnucash
11:43:48 <rrittenhouse> Just curious - is there a deb for GnuCash 2.2.9?
11:46:09 <jsled> not that gnucash distributes.
11:46:50 <rrittenhouse> ah ok.
11:48:00 <rrittenhouse> Myabe I should just ask - Will it connect to Huntington without them trying to charge me $10/month for "PC Banking" ? I know other sites can do it like mint.com or quickenonline.com
12:09:55 *** danols has quit IRC
12:13:46 *** warlord2 has joined #gnucash
12:14:16 *** bluefox has joined #gnucash
12:14:31 *** warlord has quit IRC
12:14:36 *** warlord2 is now known as warlord
12:14:37 <warlord> @op
12:14:37 <gncbot> warlord: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
12:14:49 <warlord> @op
12:14:49 <gncbot> warlord: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
12:15:00 <warlord> @op
12:15:01 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
12:36:29 *** jwshen has joined #gnucash
12:40:24 *** yn1v has joined #gnucash
12:43:02 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
12:55:52 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
13:02:39 *** danols has joined #gnucash
13:02:41 <danols> hi all
13:15:59 <danols> the druid asks me if I should use an escrow account now I only have an escrow account with the bank for the city taxes...
13:16:15 <danols> is the escrow account in the druid for the entire mortgage?
13:18:26 <jsled> the default scheduled transactions are setup to use it that way, but you could modify them to only place that fraction into the escrow account.
13:20:55 <danols> hmmm
13:21:20 <danols> this escrow tax account is considered an asset right? and should be of type 'bank' ?
13:23:05 <jsled> IIRC, yes
13:32:55 *** donfede has joined #gnucash
13:48:19 *** soa2ii has joined #gnucash
14:15:25 *** andyt has quit IRC
14:16:08 *** andyt has joined #gnucash
14:21:16 *** Rolf has quit IRC
14:36:42 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:36:42 *** donfede has quit IRC
14:47:19 <danols> where can I find out help on the 'built in functions' such as the pmt() one generated by the mortgage druid?
14:48:41 <jsled> find the file 'fin.scm' as installed by gnucash
14:49:20 <danols> also the mortgage druid review window is empty is that normal?
14:49:34 <jsled> shouldn't be, but I guess there's a long-standing bug about it.
14:50:46 <danols> :(
14:51:58 <danols> the .scmlooks like a source code there is no help file for the built in functions?
14:53:49 <jsled> not as such no.
14:54:20 <jsled> But you'll note that that file indicates those are copies of routines from gnumeric. So, you might look at their help for the same functions.
14:55:01 <jsled> They're the pretty "standard" definitions of pmt, ipmt and ppmt for a fixed repayment schedule.
14:55:39 <warlord> I think there's a long-standing SX issue.. I can't get the M&L Druid to create anything.
14:58:51 <danols> this is sad
15:00:53 <warlord> The SX code has no code-warrior champion to keep it going.
15:02:16 <danols> ok so the druid spit something out that is a scheduled transaction now my question is since when I import my banking info how will I match that transaction with the one acctually happening in my banking history?
15:02:23 <danols> or I should just do it manually?
15:04:06 <warlord> You'll need to run the SX first, get it into the CoA, then mark it as a dup during the import.
15:04:37 <danols> i'm sorry warlord can you say it again in plain english
15:04:47 <warlord> which word didn't you understand?
15:04:50 <danols> what is SX CoA
15:04:57 <danols> dup means duplicate?
15:05:14 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_.22SX.22_thing_I_see_on_the_lists_and_IRC_periodically.3F
15:05:25 <jsled> CoA = Chart of Accounts
15:05:30 <jsled> SX = Scheduled Transaction
15:05:35 <jsled> yeah, duplicate
15:06:38 <danols> k so the than import druid would learn and omit those in the future?
15:06:56 <warlord> Nope, you'll need to manually mark as dup each time.
15:07:32 <danols> ok question who uses GNUCash in real life here?
15:09:07 <warlord> Probably many of us.
15:09:10 <danols> it's seems the learning curve is really high so I just hope i'm not wasting my time
15:09:40 <warlord> Have you read the docs?
15:09:45 <danols> anyone using GNUCASH for a business ?
15:09:51 <warlord> lots of people do.
15:09:51 <danols> i've been reading a lot of them
15:10:12 <warlord> Seriously, most of the questions you've asked are answered in the docs.
15:10:23 <warlord> (or some simple "accounting 101" instructional)
15:10:27 <danols> than i'm just not getting it
15:10:48 <danols> yeah i don't have accounting 101 behind me so i'm hoping that is why it's hard for me
15:11:04 <danols> anywho i do want to give this an honest try
15:11:22 <jsled> double-entry takes a little getting used to; the tutorial and concepts guide should step you through it pretty well.
15:11:38 <danols> i could technically do my own mortage/interest payments after the import ?
15:12:10 <warlord> danols: personally I never import anything.
15:12:11 <danols> by utilizng these formula that the druid spit out?: pmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ), ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) etc? right
15:12:21 <danols> warlord: ohhh
15:12:39 <danols> warlord: can you tell me how you setup your system maybe that will give me the big picture
15:12:43 <warlord> in my mind it completely defeats the purpose of making the sure the bank didn't make a mistake.
15:13:10 <danols> you keep your recits and enter them manually?
15:13:26 <warlord> Every day (or maybe every few days) I enter in all my expenses I had, entering them off the receipts.
15:13:36 <danols> hmmm
15:13:52 <warlord> then every month when my CC bills and bank statements come I can compare what's there to what I entered.
15:13:55 <danols> that's what i've been doing now but with a spread sheet lol i thought there must be an easier way and found gnucash :)
15:13:58 <warlord> I've found mistakes this way.
15:14:08 <danols> warlord mistakes by bank?
15:14:14 <warlord> Yes.
15:14:17 <danols> wow
15:14:25 <warlord> or mistakes by vendors.
15:14:32 <warlord> And sometimes mistakes by me.
15:14:55 <danols> that's where the reconcililing comes in?
15:14:58 <warlord> Yep
15:15:12 <danols> but when you import they are already reconcilied ?
15:15:14 <warlord> But if you use the importer, you lose the ability to reconcile.
15:15:20 <danols> k
15:15:26 <warlord> Pretty much.. You lose that check .
15:15:31 <jsled> yeah, I always thought import would be so much more useful as "import+reconcile".
15:15:35 <warlord> The bank could have cashed that $10 expense as $100.
15:15:57 <warlord> .. but if you only import you'll never notice.
15:16:07 <warlord> well, the import *is* "import+clear"
15:16:33 <danols> does this take a lot of work; this manual entry?
15:16:55 <warlord> depends on how many txns you have
15:17:20 <danols> k
15:17:49 <warlord> I spend significantly more time entering in my expense reports for my job than I do entering those into GnuCash.
15:18:20 <warlord> GnuCash takes me seconds (well, maybe a couple minutes).. I spent three hours over two days entering all that data into their web forms and scanning in the receipts.
15:18:26 <warlord> (the scanning alone took an hour)
15:18:40 <danols> hmmm
15:19:00 <danols> those errors on vendor/bank side how severe were they?
15:19:19 <danols> brb phone
15:21:51 <warlord> Honestly I dont recall.
15:24:27 <danols> k
15:25:08 <warlord> Some of it was years and years ago. But once is enough.
15:26:20 <danols> i can see that
15:26:37 <danols> ok going back to the mortage payments
15:26:40 <danols> i have the accounts setup
15:27:14 <danols> I could technically manually do the split transactions toward principle and interest using the build in formulas right? or do you suggest I use the scheduler?
15:27:57 <warlord> Up to you.
15:28:04 <jsled> you could, yes. The one advantage the scheduled transactions give you is keepign track of 'i', the transaction instance count.
15:28:32 <danols> how do you guys would go about this ?
15:28:54 <jsled> But, you could also just recast the SX templates as "ppmt + ipmt", without using the functions, and it'll prompt you to enter the values of ppmt and ipmt from the monthly statement.
15:29:20 <jsled> I didn't use the mortage druid since I overpay, and it doesn't support that.
15:30:11 <danols> jsled could elaborate a little more on recasting the SX templates ?
15:30:54 <jsled> in the template, the credit/debit formula would be something like ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) + ipmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ), right?
15:30:59 <jsled> Some functions, basically.
15:31:20 <danols> yes
15:31:24 <jsled> If, instead, the credit/debit forumal were just "ppmt + ipmt", it will treat "ppmt" and "ipmt" as variables.
15:31:29 <jsled> Not functions.
15:31:42 <jsled> Just variables; as if you'd entered "foo + bar".
15:31:44 <danols> so I would calculate those manually
15:31:55 <danols> and it would prompt me on the scheduled day?
15:32:05 <jsled> So, when it comes time to create the actual transaction, it has no idea what those values are, so it'll pop up a dialog, asking for the values.
15:32:06 <jsled> yup.
15:32:25 <jsled> And you could read them out of a pre-computed table, or off the statement they mailed you, or from tea leaves, or whatever.
15:32:37 <danols> that might be a good way for me to go at the moment as I learn the basics
15:32:43 <warlord> Unfortunately for me the statement comes well after the payment is made.
15:32:57 <danols> I don't get a statement at all ---
15:33:02 <danols> well I mean a yearly one
15:33:35 <danols> jsled do you import or do manual entry like warlord?
15:33:36 <warlord> you dont get a monthly statement? how.. odd..
15:33:48 <danols> well mortgage is through a different bank than the one I use
15:34:05 <jsled> I basically did manual entry, mostly of only expenses/receipts.
15:34:16 <jsled> But I haven't used gnucash in about a year.
15:34:59 <danols> jsled do you use something different?
15:35:05 <jsled> no
15:35:41 <warlord> he's too busy. ;)
15:35:46 <danols> lol
15:35:49 <warlord> he don't call.. he don't write...
15:35:53 <jsled> heh
15:36:00 <danols> he don't have a beer
15:36:04 <danols> ok question
15:36:09 <warlord> Oh, I'm sure he has beer!
15:36:10 <jsled> no, that I have plenty of.
15:36:13 <jsled> :)
15:36:17 <danols> lol
15:36:29 <danols> so a scheduled transaction allows for the automatic variable i
15:36:41 *** Zoolooc_ has joined #gnucash
15:36:58 <danols> so in ppmt would spit out the prinicipal payment based on i?
15:37:11 <jsled> strictly, yes.
15:37:33 <danols> couldn't I do ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) + lumpsum ?
15:37:48 <danols> this way I would get asked for lumpsum which is stuff I decided to pay extra that month?
15:38:42 <jsled> no. The addition will work right the first time.
15:39:05 <jsled> The problem is, then the correct computations of ipmt and ppmt are a function of the real current balance.
15:39:23 <jsled> But that level of sophistication isn't taken into account in the ipmt and ppmt implementations.
15:39:29 <jsled> So, they'll simply be wrong going forward.
15:39:33 <danols> i see
15:39:50 <danols> because the original 193917.75 is no re-evaluated ?
15:40:29 <danols> hmmm
15:46:23 <jsled> it's not the original amount that's important. It's the value of the outstanding principle at the time interest is computed.
15:48:56 <warlord> but we have no 'balance-as-of' function available.
15:52:59 <danols> is this true ???? ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i+10 : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) = ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i : 467.00 : outstanding balance as of i+10 : 0 : 0 )
15:56:03 <danols> I mean this ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i+10 : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) = ppmt( 0.05790 / 12.00 : i : 467.00-10 : outstanding balance as of i+10 : 0 : 0 )
15:56:53 <jsled> I don't believe so. If you want to see it evidentially, fire it up in gnumeric as a couple of series.
15:57:34 <jsled> The key difference is syntactical: we use ':' for parameter separation, they use ',' like normal people. :)
15:58:17 <danols> does gnumeric come with gnucash? i got a windows machine here
15:58:22 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
15:58:27 <warlord> No. It's a different package
15:59:06 <jsled> ah.
15:59:11 <jsled> Well, excel, then.
15:59:12 <jsled> :)
16:07:09 <danols> It is the same
16:07:10 <danols> :)
16:08:34 <danols> i don't know what that means yet lol
16:13:20 <danols> does gnucash have like a console/interpreter where I can utilize the built in functions
16:15:15 <warlord> not anymore. it was removed around 2.0
16:15:42 <jsled> (did it still exist in 2.0?)
16:15:43 <danols> would you know why?
16:15:57 <jsled> oh … the command-line business?
16:16:31 <danols> not command line i mean kind of like a shell where I could manually do ppmt caculations etc
16:16:55 <jsled> danols: sorry, I was asking warlord … I know what you want.
16:17:24 <danols> k
16:17:40 <warlord> jsled: yeah, it was removed as part of the scheme->C work chris did
16:17:45 * jsled nods
16:18:34 <warlord> at the time nobody really seemed to want it, so it was removed.
16:19:00 <danols> k
16:19:52 <danols> if I wanted to represent a loan that is based on variable interest rate how would I do that ? ppmt( current rate / 12.00 : i+10 : 467.00 : 193917.75 : 0 : 0 ) ???
16:22:56 <jsled> no … anything with a variable interest rate is going to be computed as a function of the current value of the account.
16:23:05 <jsled> Which the *pmt functions don't take into account.
16:23:17 <danols> so I would have to do that manually ?
16:24:47 <jsled> do what, exactly?
16:25:51 <danols> well calculate the prinicipal and interest payments
16:26:30 <jsled> yes, you'll need to do that manually.
16:27:49 <danols> k
16:31:59 *** jcreigh has joined #gnucash
16:32:55 *** rrittenhouse has quit IRC
16:50:48 *** danols has quit IRC
16:50:58 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
17:00:05 *** iamawake1 has joined #gnucash
17:00:49 *** gncbot` has joined #gnucash
17:00:55 *** iamawake1 has joined #gnucash
17:00:56 *** gncbot has quit IRC
17:06:54 *** iamawake has quit IRC
17:11:27 *** ErKa has quit IRC
17:15:33 *** dad has joined #gnucash
17:18:18 <dad> I can't find anything in mailing list search or report options regarding comparative financial statements. Is it possible to prepare a comparative balance sheet and/or income statement without knowing programming?
17:19:04 <warlord> I dont believe so, no. It would require some scheme hacking.. Or running two reports and pulling them into excel and comparing them there.
17:19:25 <dad> thanks
17:21:04 *** dad has left #gnucash
17:50:55 *** vitoc has joined #gnucash
18:17:38 *** andyt has quit IRC
18:24:37 *** bluefox has quit IRC
18:26:33 *** yn1v has quit IRC
18:31:03 *** Zoolooc_ has quit IRC
18:39:02 *** felipe__ has joined #gnucash
18:39:33 <felipe__> Hi guys, I was wondering where could I find an up to date gnucash manual in spanish.
18:40:20 *** jcreigh has quit IRC
18:41:49 <felipe__> I don't need the manual for me, but the accountant doesn't speak english
18:44:55 <warlord> I dont think we have one.
18:48:43 <felipe__> owww, I'll have to learn Gnucash and teach de accountant. Well thanks anyway. :)
18:48:59 <felipe__> warlord, what about a manual from previous version?
18:49:29 <warlord> AFAIK we've never had a spanish manual.
18:50:01 *** vitoc has quit IRC
18:50:12 <felipe__> warlord, ohh, oh well It can't hurt me to learn GnuCash :)
18:51:05 <warlord> :)
19:13:08 *** felipe__ has quit IRC
19:20:52 *** bzt has joined #gnucash
19:29:14 *** jwshen has quit IRC
19:57:44 *** iamawake1 has quit IRC
20:56:51 *** titanae has joined #gnucash
20:57:52 <titanae> hello yesterday there was someone on chat having problems with importing .qif files
20:58:07 <titanae> I am new to gnucash and using 2.2.4
20:58:30 <titanae> I was reading some old documentation from 2002 about importing
20:58:58 <titanae> Should I create the account first and the categories or import the *.qif files first?
21:07:00 <titanae> hello anyone here?
21:09:20 *** titanae has quit IRC
21:21:49 <warlord> @tell titanae You should create your account tree first, then map your qif accounts to the gnucash accounts during the import process. You should also upgrade to 2.2.9 before doing it.
21:21:49 <gncbot`> warlord: The operation succeeded.
21:21:54 <warlord> @nick gncbot
21:21:55 *** gncbot` is now known as gncbot
21:22:00 *** warlord sets mode: +o gncbot
21:22:06 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
21:22:52 *** soa2ii has quit IRC
21:38:44 *** iamawake has joined #gnucash
22:25:25 *** iamawake has quit IRC
22:39:11 *** JimRaehl2 has left #gnucash
22:40:12 *** Jimraehl has joined #gnucash
23:44:06 *** iamawake has joined #gnucash
23:54:47 *** bluefox has joined #gnucash