2009-02-25 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:10:37 <lcl> ?
00:11:20 <andrewsw> orly?
00:20:34 <lcl> Anyone up for answering a newbie question?
00:23:01 <andrewsw> please just ask your question
00:25:12 <lcl> Sorry; I wasn't sure if people were around. Anyhow, I just installed gnucash and saved without adding balances (which I needed to look up later). Now I don't see a way of just setting things up without it considering changes transactions.
00:25:40 <lcl> I would have thought it would be in the docs, esp. in the beginning of the docs, but maybe I'm missing something.
00:25:50 <andrewsw> did you input any transactions at all? or just set up some accounts?
00:26:39 <lcl> I set up some accounts, and in one of them I had put an inital balance. Would it have been better if everything had been zero? (I don't mind blowing it away and starting over.)
00:26:50 <andrewsw> the "Opening Balance" transactions are just plain ol' transactions from the given account to an account called "Opening Balances"
00:27:11 <lcl> I then tried adding in amounts, so that seems to be considered transactions.
00:27:20 <andrewsw> yes.
00:27:20 <lcl> Hmm.
00:27:25 <lcl> I must have missed that.
00:27:57 <andrewsw> when you set up a new account, you have to opportunity to enter a starting balance, but it is effectively the same as hand entering an "Opening Balance" txn.
00:28:48 <lcl> So once the account exists, how do I get to the "Opening Balance" account? I'll poke around a bit more.
00:29:18 <andrewsw> It should be in your regular chart of accounts like any other (the tab called "Accounts").
00:29:37 <andrewsw> If you can't see that tab, then do: File -> New -> New Accounts Page
00:29:52 <lcl> Ah. Under Equity. Now I see it.
00:30:01 <andrewsw> Ah, yes. sorry.
00:30:14 <lcl> NP
00:30:20 <andrewsw> It's an account in it's own right my particular file...
00:30:29 <lcl> *nod*
00:31:08 <lcl> So if I have several accounts do I just add up all the balances and make that the value of the Opening Account?
00:31:17 <andrewsw> So, if you need an opening balance in a savings account, for example, then pick a starting date, and enter a txn called Opening Balance. It should debit Assets:Savings (or whatever) and credit Equity:Opening Balances
00:32:03 <andrewsw> no, enter an opening balance txn in each account, tied back to Eq:Opening Balances. Then the total amount in opening balances will reflect the total of all those.
00:32:37 <lcl> So, in effect, the Open Balance account is a sort of sleight-of-hand to allow modifications while maintaining the double-entry system from the start?
00:32:43 <andrewsw> If I know my savings account balance on 2/1/09 is $1000.00 then I would enter this:
00:32:49 <lcl> Whatever works. :-)
00:33:04 <andrewsw> yes.
00:33:35 <andrewsw> you have to start somewhere, and since you're not going to start at the beginning of your life... you have to have somewhere to collect the accumulated cashflow of your life ;)
00:33:52 <andrewsw> that's what opening balances if for.
00:33:56 <andrewsw> is
00:35:40 <lcl> So if today I know how much one account is, and tomorrow I enter the balance of a second and a third gets figured out next week, Opening Balances allows me to make adjustments without creating havoc
00:36:25 <andrewsw> sure.
00:36:45 <andrewsw> you set the opening balance amount and date to whatever it is you figure it out.
00:37:03 <jsled> It's not slight of hand, really.
00:37:18 <andrewsw> sleight of hand? ;-P
00:37:21 <lcl> I do rather wish there were an option of allowing the program to suspend calculations by toggling an Open Balances Entry Mode, but I guess this should work.
00:37:34 <lcl> Did I write "slight of hand"?
00:37:42 <lcl> *lcl peers at her typing*
00:37:49 <andrewsw> no... I was picking on jsled
00:38:12 * andrewsw dons flame-retardent suit
00:38:17 <lcl> Ah. :-)
00:38:50 <andrewsw> lcl: the tricky thing is realizing that the ending balance on a bank statement is *not* necessarily a good opening balance because of outstanding txns. if you follow
00:38:57 <jsled> ah; I'd not even registered the distinction, before, I don't think. sleight of hand, then.
00:40:58 <lcl> Good point. I was figuring to put in the current balances as best I can, and/or old balances with transactions which have occured since.
00:41:39 <lcl> The main thing is that some balances I know, some I have approximately now but will need to correct to a more precise number later, and some may take a while to get.
00:42:15 <andrewsw> yup. when you get to the point where you are trying to reconcile an accout for the first time, then you'd possibly adjust those opening balance numbers.
00:42:34 <andrewsw> but at some point, hopefully within a couple of cycles of getting started, those adjustments would stop.
00:42:52 <lcl> So now am I creating sub-accounts under Opening Balance for every account?
00:43:01 <andrewsw> I'm off to bed now. lcl, good luck and keep plugging away.
00:43:03 <andrewsw> g'night all.
00:43:12 <lcl> Goodnight. Many thanks!
00:43:20 <lcl> Pleasant dreams.
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04:49:29 <PhoenixMage> Hi ppl
04:50:29 <PhoenixMage> I want to start using gnucash and auto schedule my mortgage (that I am midway through) but I cant seem to get the same interest figures the banks does when using the correct interest rate and balance, any ideas what I am doing wrong?
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16:43:50 <linas> wow AT&T has the most messed up ordering system ever. They cancelled my order for a new internet connection, and then called me to sell it to me all over again!
16:49:02 <warlord> WOW!
16:50:32 <warlord> how..... lovely...
17:08:58 <linas> I've been on the phone for 2 hours trying to re-order it.
17:09:41 <linas> because the person who called to sell it to me was not prepared for me to say "yes".
17:10:25 <linas> and the second person did not know what a static IP is....
17:10:42 <linas> and the third person keeps having to reboot thier computer
17:11:39 <linas> so I'm on hold again ...
17:13:07 <warlord> UGGH!
17:13:12 <warlord> What happened to your original order?
17:13:19 <warlord> Do you have options other than AT&T?
17:14:03 <warlord> So I wonder, if I turn off my VM and then restart it in March (after the 1st) will mailman send out its monthly notices?
17:16:26 <warlord> oops, uncle is here. gotta run
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17:50:32 <linas> Phew off the phone at last
17:51:09 <linas> Maybe they're paid by commision, and the slaesmen make more money by cancelling an order, and placing it again ... !?
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19:58:06 <Bob> hello, I would like to know something language-related....I am using the French version of Gnucash, and I am wondering what do the letters for reconciliation stand for, the thing is that they are well explained in the tutorial and concept guide, but in english...
19:58:46 <gxti> what are the letters?
19:59:08 <gxti> if it's a direct translation i'd expect n/?/o
19:59:15 <Bob> "p" and "n"
19:59:21 <gxti> i suck at french so i don't know "cleared" off the top of my head
19:59:33 <gxti> only two?
20:00:44 <Bob> the other one is "o"
20:01:26 <gxti> so i suspect n = no, p = cleared, o = reconciled
20:01:57 <Bob> thanks
20:02:28 <gxti> oh, of course it wouldn't go to 'o' by clicking on it. duh.
20:02:34 <gxti> so yeah, that's it
20:03:40 <Bob> yes, I had to reconcile to know what the 3rd letter was, it is my first time doing reconciliation
20:04:18 <gxti> 'p' is probably short for 'payer'
20:04:33 <gxti> just guessing from the results from google translation, which now offers a helpful dictionary
20:05:03 <Bob> I was just looking that up now, and it seems to correspond to "pointé"
20:05:08 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
20:05:23 <warlord> well, it would be the translations of 'no', 'yes', and 'cleared'
20:05:31 <Bob> that's what appears at the bottom of my account window
20:05:33 <warlord> 'n', 'y', 'c'
20:05:37 <gxti> i'm even less familiar with french banking terminology than i am with the general language, so i have no idea what the idioms are
20:05:52 <gxti> that's something you'd have to absorb culturally :/
20:06:16 <gxti> ah
20:06:34 <gxti> yes, the totals a the bottom include a 'cleared' and a 'reconciled'
20:06:34 <Bob> I don't really know this term myself, I am new at accounting altogether, but so far Gnucash has been a really good learning tool
20:06:52 <gxti> so if it says pointé there, then that would be it
20:07:33 <gxti> if pointé is "dotted" i guess that could refer to a particular style of marking in a checkbook or register
20:08:43 <Bob> this is a very good language tool: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index1024_1.asp
20:10:43 <gxti> doesn't work in firefox, and my french is so bad that it's not of much use anyhow :P
20:11:09 <Bob> pointé could mean dotted, but the verb "pointer", in every day language, means something like "to aim", as with a gun
20:11:39 <Bob> I don't understand, I use it with Firefox all the time... www.granddictionnaire.com
20:12:14 <gxti> oh, it must be complaining because i have cookies disabled
20:12:32 <gxti> i saw something about internet explorer at the bottom and assumed it was upset about my choice of browser :P
20:12:53 <gxti> yeah, that was it. silly.
20:13:14 <gxti> there's a link at the bottom to continue, but then when i click on a word it shows an error page. enabling cookies fixes it.
20:13:55 <Bob> cool, I hope you enjoy it, although it is only for technical terms, such as accounting ones
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20:18:27 <jmagder> Good evening from Toronto. Got a hopefully quick GnuCash question. When I run a search on my accounts, I'd like to create reports based strictly on the search results.
20:18:57 <warlord> there are limited reports that work off query results..
20:19:01 <jmagder> It seems though that Reports -> Account Report is the only options.
20:19:13 <jmagder> warlord: Beat me to my own question. :-)
20:19:26 <warlord> heh
20:19:41 <warlord> generally you can limit reports based on report options
20:21:10 <jmagder> Yup. But the report options don't have search abilities. So I can't for example, find out how much money I spent per month at locations matching (Hortons|McDonalds|Wendys)
20:21:27 <jmagder> Well, at least, I can't generate a pretty bar graph too easily. :-)
20:21:47 <warlord> nope, you cant.
20:21:57 <jmagder> Unless of course I broke up my accounts to have finer granualrity. ie "Expenses:FoodIShouldAvoid"
20:22:17 <Bob> that's an interesting account name!
20:22:42 <Bob> I might consider creating one myself....
20:23:09 <warlord> heh
20:26:15 <Bob> hey, just out of curiosity....anyone here using Debian?
20:26:21 <warlord> nope
20:29:09 <jmagder> Bob: Indeed!
20:29:19 <jmagder> Sorry, got a call from the wife. :-)
20:29:30 <jmagder> Bob: I'm using Ubuntu, which is Debian based.
20:29:56 <jmagder> Did you have a question? Maybe I can help.
20:31:04 <Bob> no, like I said, it was out of curiosity....I have an inspiron laptop, and I tried about 6 linux distributions, all of them had a "black screen" problem....you can google linux inspiron 1100 and see...
20:31:27 <Bob> that was until I got Debian Lenny, which works like a charm
20:31:56 <jmagder> warlord: I'm not sure how gnucash implements its data structures, but if the search results are sufficiently similar to a normal account, it shouldn't be too hard to convert search results into a 'temporary account' that could be slected from the options screen of the report.
20:32:45 <jmagder> Would that be a feature that the team would be potentially interested if I implemented it?
20:32:51 <warlord> jmagder: nope
20:33:15 <jmagder> Bob: I'll do a quick search, sec.
20:33:17 <jmagder> warlord:
20:33:28 <jmagder> Oops. warload, why is that? :)
20:34:12 <warlord> search results != an account.
20:34:50 <Bob> now, I am perfectly satisfied with Debian and I have started promoting it to friends....and I guess on chat rooms :) :)
20:36:06 <jmagder> I'm glad you found a distribution that works for you. I had a hell of a time with my laptop which has an ATI card. What the fix was for me was to make the disable the splash screen from bootup.
20:36:36 <Bob> that had not worked for me....tried everything....
20:36:55 <jmagder> Nvidia support has generally been a lot more stable. Hopefully ATI will catch up in the Linux world one day.
20:37:15 <Bob> Mandriva, Ubuntu 6, 7 and 8, Open Suse, Xubuntu...
20:38:33 <Bob> anyway...gotta do to the dishes...
20:38:41 <Bob> bye now!
20:38:48 <jmagder> warlord: I know their not the same. I'm just thinking that a similar set of data structures could be used to represent the search results. Whatt if the report options box had an option to select search results?
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20:39:17 <jmagder> And made a clear distinction between accounts and search results?
20:42:14 <warlord> sounds great! you going to submit the patches?
20:46:35 <gxti> it could even be interesting to make "accounts" that behave like search results and actually stick in the accounts page
20:46:43 <gxti> like a read-only view of a subset of that account
20:47:05 <gxti> and no, i'm not going to write it, because i have little interest to invest in it :/
20:54:38 <warlord> gxti: a search results page will do that.
20:55:14 <gxti> does it? i guess the problem is that you can't use it in reports
20:55:37 <gxti> but the interesting part would be making it semi-permanent so you can go back and review the same queries as if they were normal accounts
20:56:04 <gxti> anyway, i've never actually used search (as you may have guessed) so i'm just spouting ideas
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21:00:01 <jmagder> Sorry, wife needed help finding something. :-)
21:00:14 <jmagder> warlord: Potentially!
21:00:22 <warlord> ok
21:00:42 <jmagder> I have a lot on my plate right now between work, taxes, RRSPs, etc.
21:00:53 <warlord> *nods*
21:01:13 <jmagder> But I have found GnuCash to be immensely useful, and I'd be happy to add some features.
21:04:44 <warlord> ok
21:06:18 <jmagder> I also think it would be great to have search queries saved. That would probably be even higher on my list.
21:07:11 <jmagder> So assuming I get some free time in the next week or two, I think I'm up for the challenge!
21:08:27 <jmagder> I've done a lot of open source work in the past with OpenSER (snmpstats module), and NetSNMP. Feel free to check out my website at www.jeffmagder.com if you are interested in seeing some links to that work. :-)
21:11:38 <warlord> ok
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23:30:36 <jmagder> Alright, my bed is instant messaging me.
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