2009-02-03 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:21 <warlord> Oh, A/R and A/P *ARE* separate entities.
00:00:30 <bobnormal> only conceptually though, right?
00:00:33 <warlord> No!!!
00:00:37 <bobnormal> what's different
00:01:05 <warlord> When you invoice a customer, that's a receivable. It's a type of asset, but it's definitely NOT the same as your Bank account.
00:01:13 <bobnormal> yeah i'm not saying it is
00:01:20 <bobnormal> i'm just saying it's an expected future transaction
00:01:28 <bobnormal> ie: an expected future receipt of funds
00:01:30 <bobnormal> (ie: credit)
00:01:38 <warlord> Bzzt! debit
00:01:40 <bobnormal> whereas an A/P is an expected future transaction that's send
00:01:45 <bobnormal> ie(debig)
00:01:47 <bobnormal> yeah well
00:01:55 <warlord> you've got debits and credits backwards.
00:02:06 <bobnormal> if you want to be oldschool and backward about it and treat receivable as a positive
00:02:06 <warlord> a debit is an increase in assets.
00:02:17 <bobnormal> i know the concept
00:02:33 <bobnormal> anyway i still dont see any programmatic difference between accounts payable and receivable
00:02:39 <bobnormal> i think the fact they exist is just an anachronism
00:02:53 <warlord> what happens if your customer doesn't pay?
00:03:10 <bobnormal> then you have to trigger a business process to deal with it
00:03:24 <warlord> the accounting program doesn't know about business processes.
00:03:28 <bobnormal> but your 'expected future transaction' never affected your real accounting, only projected future bottom line
00:03:35 <bobnormal> yeah well im programming one that does
00:03:36 <warlord> it's just easier, programatically, to separate those out .
00:03:47 <bobnormal> it seems that it isnt
00:03:48 <bobnormal> hehe
00:03:53 <bobnormal> one SQL table vs. two
00:03:54 <warlord> trust me, it is.
00:03:57 <bobnormal> why?
00:04:37 <warlord> oh, I'm not talking about sql tables. I'm talking about accounts-based data model.
00:04:46 <warlord> Sure, you could have a single table for all transactions.
00:04:59 <warlord> but you definitely want separate AR and AP accounts.
00:05:06 <warlord> (separate from your Bank account)
00:05:08 <bobnormal> well i've at least got the projected/occurred split at the table level
00:05:21 <bobnormal> anyway i think you've answered my question
00:05:29 <bobnormal> and as i thought there is no real difference
00:05:43 <bobnormal> so i'll just go ahead and implement it like this with two tables
00:05:46 <bobnormal> thanks for your input
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00:21:00 <amitz> is there supported api for gnucash?
00:34:24 <talso> http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/texi/gnucash-design.html
00:34:30 <talso> i see lots of api stuff there
00:34:36 <talso> but i don't have a good answer
00:35:01 <jsled> the neil williams stuff is … old.
00:35:48 <jsled> API docs in as much as they exist are at <http://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/HEAD/>
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00:48:56 <amitz> okay, thx
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10:01:51 <warlord> linas: any chance for the DNS entry?
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11:37:53 <Murk> Afternoon. I'm on WinXP, trying to get Finance::Quote going for gnucash. After much wailing and gnashing of teetch I found that I had to install Activerperl. Did so. Ran script to grab Finance::Quote got the following:
11:37:56 <Murk> * Check Perl
11:38:02 <Murk> *Install DateManip
11:38:25 <Murk> ppm install failed: Can't find any package that provides Date-Manip
11:38:30 <warlord> Murk: what version of GnuCash? What version of ActivePerl?
11:38:42 <Murk> ppm install failed: can't find any package.... DateManip
11:38:54 <Murk> Latest installs of both... hang on, will get numbers
11:39:16 <Murk> Active Perl 5.10.0 Build 1004
11:39:51 <Murk> Gnucash is 2.2.8 r 1773
11:40:47 <Murk> Trying script again. Is d/loading packlist
11:41:03 <Murk> I think activestate may be having connectivity issues....
11:41:07 <Murk> seems to be working now
11:41:17 <warlord> Good, because those versions should work fine ;)
11:41:31 <Murk> (I say that as it seemed to hang when getting perl - but my other connections were fine.
11:41:54 <warlord> okay..
11:42:54 <Murk> insteall Crypy SSLeay, installing Finance-Quote..... on the downloading message.... no obvious progress on that one though... - "Downloading Finance-Quote-1.15..." is sitting there, cackling like an evil overlord (no actual cackling taking place)
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11:44:59 <Murk> Downloading Finance-Quote-1/15...failed 500 read timeout
11:45:08 <Murk> ppm install failed: 500 read timeout
11:45:15 <Murk> An error occured, see above.
11:45:39 <Murk> Press any key to continue... (where's the 'any' key?... (grin duck and run) )
11:46:32 <Murk> retrying script.... seems to be getting past that point now --- very flakey.... claiming success!
11:49:27 <Murk> Well, gnucash thinks it's all okay... I now need to work out (new gnucash user, uk based) how to test things.... thanks for holding my hand through that!
11:51:50 <Murk> Seems to work... cheers, ttfn
11:56:09 <warlord> Excellent.
11:56:38 <Murk> Just now trying to work out how to set an opening balance of stock in my nominee account.... I'll get there!
12:04:57 <Murk> got that worked out. not immediately intuitive, but easy enough in the end. Thanks for putting up with me, real life calls!
12:06:58 <warlord> :-D
12:09:23 <Murk> (I'll bet that was one of the easiest 'it doesn't work' from people dropping in for a little while!)
12:09:58 <warlord> Prety much, yeah. ;)
12:10:32 <Murk> now, can I ask you about this broken coffee cup holder on the PC.....?
12:10:40 <warlord> HAHAHAHA
12:10:48 <warlord> That's outside my expertice, I'm afraid.
12:11:33 <Murk> Right... this house isn't going to clean itself. Thanks again, and bye.
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12:24:38 <linas> warlord, I added code.gnucash.org IN A 204.107.200.71 (I note your other servers are at .65)
12:24:39 <linas> sorry, I had completely forgeotten
12:24:53 <warlord> linas: no worries.
12:24:56 <warlord> Thanks.
12:25:38 <warlord> Eventually everything will get merged onto the new (code) box.. But for now it's better to have two separate IPs.
12:25:41 <linas> FWIW in a few weeks, I may have an all-new internet provider, with, in principle, a slightly higher upload speed
12:25:52 <warlord> Nice!
12:26:01 <warlord> My upload speed is 1.54mbps
12:26:22 <linas> Assuming they know what they're doing .. which is so hard to tell, these days.
12:27:11 <warlord> heh.
12:27:14 <warlord> Yeah. Very true.
12:27:29 <linas> the claim is that I'll have 3.0 up, 6.0 down ... ! the fiber box is only a few hundred feet from my house, so its technically possible
12:28:14 <linas> but I had to talk to five people before someone knew what "static IP" was, *and* could quote me a price!
12:28:26 <linas> so a potentially rocky road ahead
12:28:50 <warlord> Good luck!
12:29:13 <warlord> I'm still waiting for Fios ... but it's unlikely they'll deploy in my town.
12:29:52 <linas> yeah, this is AT&T's Uverse .. like Fios, but different.
12:30:57 <warlord> Right.
12:31:12 <warlord> Right now I have 10mb down, 1.5 up
12:32:52 <linas> 9 years ago, they dropped a *massive* 6foot by 5 foot by 8 foot shack on my nieghbors lawn, crammed with fiber optics bigger than my wrist, big-ass routers, 10 or 20 car batteries, the works
12:33:36 <linas> so for 9 years, I've been waiting for them to actually start selling this stuff! Which, damn them they didn't
12:34:00 <linas> until lst week.
12:34:21 <linas> when I got an actual unsolicited sales call out of the blue.
12:34:27 <warlord> Cool!
12:34:29 <warlord> Congrats.
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12:59:41 <linas> Ah FUCK AT&T
13:00:06 <linas> I just got off the phone, trying to confirm the order, which was tentative after last speaking to them
13:00:43 <linas> They changed their speeds, feeds & prices on me, and told me that I would have to disconnect my current internet provider WAIT ONE MONTH, and only then would they install!
13:01:06 <linas> despite already having 4 pairs of wires coming into my house!
13:01:14 <linas> WTF
13:01:51 <linas> The "wait one month" is insane beyond comprehsension
13:02:02 <gxti> you need at least 34 pairs to get DSL these days
13:02:28 <gxti> 36 if you want decent service!
13:05:09 <linas> Heh. I've sometimes thought about ordering several copies of the cheapest dsl service and ganging them together somehow
13:05:15 <linas> argh
13:05:59 <linas> They want me to go without *any* internet service for one month! It boggles the mind.
13:07:08 <warlord> Call back and talk to someone else?
13:07:34 <linas> I guess.
13:07:53 <warlord> often you get lame people...
13:08:02 <warlord> but if you hang up and call back you'll often get someone better.
13:08:05 <linas> The truck with the techs comes by almost daily, and one of em said I could order through him.
13:08:45 <linas> this guy was suprisingly not lame in other respects ... he just said his order system required this ...
13:11:03 <warlord> required what?
13:11:12 <warlord> (are you currently an AT&T DSL customer)
13:11:24 <warlord> How are they supposed to know that you have existing IP service with someone else?
13:11:34 <warlord> What if you /wanted/ backup services?
13:17:34 <linas> Beats me. It was bizarre
13:18:08 <linas> The truck was out there just now. I can't order through him, but he said he knows of no technical reason for this.
13:23:54 <warlord> Silly people.
13:27:38 <warlord> Yay, mail from code finally reached me..
13:27:49 <warlord> (well, the daily logs)
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14:01:54 <Murk> Hello again. Try as I might (new user of gnucash) I can't seem to get one fund price updating.... I have several securities updating, so finance::quote is installed. The fund is this: http://www.selftrade.co.uk/market-data/funds/fund-summary.php?symbole=SB-10365
14:02:02 <Murk> ISIN: GB0001036531
14:02:51 <Murk> Can't see to find a data source that works. Get an error message from the price editor 'unable to retrieve quotes'
14:04:09 <Murk> (Gnucash 2.2.8, winxp)
14:04:10 <warlord> What price source(s) are you trying?
14:05:10 <Murk> Tried lots. Yahoo, fund library, yahoo europe, several others, tried the multiple list, UK unit trust prices....
14:05:12 <warlord> And what ticker symbol?
14:05:36 <warlord> Well, where can you /find/ a quote? Give me a URL that shows the quote?
14:05:39 <Murk> I have GB0001036531 in the ISIN box, and in the symbol/abbreviation (seemed to work for all the others)
14:05:58 <warlord> It's the Symbol that matters. The ISIN isn't used by anything.
14:06:05 <Murk> ah
14:06:16 <Murk> http://www.selftrade.co.uk/market-data/funds/fund-summary.php?symbole=SB-10365
14:07:25 <Murk> http://www.legalandgeneral.com/investment/fundprice1_index.jsp (it is UK Index Trust (Acc) R ).... but that page isn't useful as no references!
14:08:55 <warlord> I dont think F::Q has a 'selftrade' grabber.
14:09:15 <warlord> it does have a "uk_unit_trusts" source, but neither of those symbols work.
14:09:44 <warlord> (you can use gnc-fq-dump to test)
14:10:09 <Murk> I could, if I knew what that meant!
14:11:11 <Murk> So, where does that leave me? Will I just have to enter that manually, or is there some clever workaround?
14:15:43 <warlord> There's a program, gnc-fq-dump.
14:15:51 <warlord> E.g. gnc-fq-dump uk_unit_trusts GB0001036531
14:16:07 <warlord> which returns data and ends with:
14:16:11 <warlord> ** This stock quote cannot be used by gnucash!!
14:16:19 <Murk> ... and I type this on my command line, in the gnucash directory?
14:16:39 <warlord> you might need to run "perl gnc-fq-dump"
14:16:48 <warlord> but yes.
14:16:58 <warlord> play around until you find a working quote source
14:17:10 <warlord> if you can't, then you'll need to enter prices. manually.
14:17:49 <Murk> A shame there isn't a way to say 'search all sources for this' and have the computer do the legwork!
14:19:28 <warlord> Most people already know where they get price quote sources.
14:19:57 <Murk> I'm coming from quicken, and quicken didn't have this in their system.... a pain.
14:20:12 <Murk> Going to write a batch script based on the sources listed as available
14:29:05 <Murk> searching now.... not looking hopeful....
14:30:40 <Murk> thanks for your help again.... I take it that the sources used are outside the scope of the gnucash developers, and in the domain of the finance::quote people?
14:31:16 <warlord> Did quicken even HAVE automatic price quote download?
14:33:11 <Murk> Not for that one.... it did for shares, but because that one was a fund it never works (intuit being a US company didn't have many UK funds in their Database... in the end I wrote a bash script to run on my shell account to get the prices and email me .... http://www.murky.org/blg/bash-problem-sorted/
14:33:34 <Murk> I made up my own ticker for the text file in order to speed the input of data....
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14:34:52 <Murk> well, tsp returns a USD price of 12.7657 ... which seems to bear little relation to the UK price of 1.11 GBP
14:35:27 <Murk> asia gives 0.00
14:36:38 <Murk> canadian bond index gives 10.63... could that be related (e.g. blocks of 10?)
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14:42:52 <Murk> Nope, looks like I'm out of luck here..... a little frustrating given that I can get the fund detail online, I just can't tell gnucash how to grab it!
14:45:16 <Murk> Ah well, thanks again for the assist, even though it was fruitless, I appreciate the efforts.
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21:46:48 <dbreiser> @tell Murk: gnc-fq-dump -v yahoo_europe GB0001036531GBP shows almost appropriate data (wrong label/data alignment)
21:46:48 <gncbot> dbreiser: The operation succeeded.
21:47:31 <dbreiser> @tell Murk: yahoo has been mucking with their data feeds, and finance-quote hasn't kept up (for unit trusts, anyway)
21:47:31 <gncbot> dbreiser: The operation succeeded.
21:48:49 <dbreiser> @tell Murk: and yahoo uk spits out GB quotes in pence
21:48:49 <gncbot> dbreiser: The operation succeeded.
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22:08:46 <warlord> ahh, thanks dbreiser
22:08:51 <warlord> you should hang out here more! :)
22:09:16 <dbreiser> I'll try. The semester should settle down soon.
22:09:29 <Mike> I'm trying to set up an income report with multiple columns for different periods, such as Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4. I can use the multi-column report for this, but is there a way to turn off the text in the additional reports?
22:09:47 <jsled> no.
22:10:28 <Mike> I can add the option, but is there a command in scheme, to print just the selected account values and not the account names?
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22:11:11 <jsled> hmm. well, there's not a command, per se, but you could make the part which would print that text be conditional on the new option you're adding.
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22:20:31 <vbatts> warlord and jsled ; since we had made discussion of gnucash *easily* on slackware, we've got a more manageable solution than installing the whole gnome suite
22:20:39 <vbatts> http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.2/business/gnucash/
22:20:57 <vbatts> figured i'd give a follow up. cheers
22:22:21 <warlord> cool
22:23:52 <jsled> I guess, yeah.
22:24:09 <jsled> But if you're manually listing the order of dependent packages, you're still doing it wrong, imho. :)
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23:04:40 <warlord> well there is that.
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23:39:06 <warlord> g'night all
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23:49:20 <mishehu> vbatts: what do you do about all the dependencies for gnucash though?
23:50:45 <dbreiser> hmm. I forgot I actually assembled a new f-q module for european funds/unit trusts. Upstream is sitting on it though.
23:51:03 <dbreiser> assembled = copy, paste, tweak