2009-01-12 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:10:06 <holt_kessler> hi
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01:20:36 <goodger> holt_kessler: hi
01:40:54 <holt_kessler> this program is a work of art, congratulations to all!
01:41:32 <holt_kessler> makes alternatives look so amatuerish
01:42:37 <goodger> *nod*
01:43:20 <holt_kessler> I really love the ''grown-up'' notion of dbl entry
01:43:40 <holt_kessler> very traditional indeed
01:43:51 <goodger> traditional?
01:44:04 <holt_kessler> yes, in accounting terms
01:44:17 <goodger> I don't know of any accounting system that works properly that isn't double-entry
01:44:51 <holt_kessler> ms money seems to hide the idea from the end-user imho
01:44:54 <goodger> 15th century italy got it right
01:45:11 <goodger> ah, yeah, MS money doesn't work properly :P
01:45:13 * holt_kessler agrees wholeheartedly
01:45:24 <holt_kessler> touche
01:46:00 <holt_kessler> anyway, it compiles beaautifully on GNU/Linux Lunar
01:46:20 <holt_kessler> and err, ms money dont
01:46:24 <goodger> heh, yes
01:46:37 <goodger> MS Money also doesn't generate balance sheets for an SME
01:47:37 <holt_kessler> I'm still tryin' to figure out the investments (complex) transactions
01:47:54 <holt_kessler> all in due time I suppose
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01:49:27 <goodger> I've not got to that yet
01:53:41 <goodger> the fact that it doesn't seem to be able to account for delays in transfer is slightly annoying
01:53:53 <goodger> I made a "floating bank transfers" account for that purpose
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02:38:30 <meowsqueak> I'm having some trouble getting gnucash to work on Mac OSX with MacPorts - can anyone help please? My problem is that I cannot get dbus to work properly so gnucash won't launch.
02:39:02 <meowsqueak> I've tried Fink but I had a gnome-keyring dependency problem, so I tried MacPorts instead and that seemed to build properly, but running dbus-launch gnucash gives me this error:
02:39:14 <meowsqueak> Failed to start message bus: Check-in failed: Permission denied
02:39:19 <meowsqueak> EOF in dbus-launch reading address from bus daemon
02:40:55 <meowsqueak> btw I used the Xquartz method with MacPorts, if that helps
02:41:04 <meowsqueak> or is relevant.
02:44:52 <meowsqueak> am I right in thinking that dbus-launch should 'just work' ?
02:45:43 <meowsqueak> ps shows I actually have an instance of dbus-daemon --nofork --session running as the user. If I kill it, something respawns another.
02:46:02 <meowsqueak> dbus-monitor works too but shows no activity when gnucash is started directly
02:46:34 <meowsqueak> (the thing that started all this is that gnucash gives a configuration error, and the blurb after MacPorts did its thing was that if I saw that I was to use dbus-launch to start gnucash)
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07:51:48 <joslwah> Anyone around? Got an odd question to ask.
07:51:52 <joslwah> Well, discuss.
07:54:14 <joslwah> Summary of the question is this "I have a book X. I want to have two other books Y and Z that share some accounts with X. Is this possible, and if it is, how?"
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08:27:11 <TTT> hi, I'm trying to use gnucash for family budget, but I want some reports on who's spending how much. Do I need to create expense accounts for everyone separately, or is there another way?
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08:34:42 <warlord> meowsqueak: I'm not sure why you think "dbus-launch gnucash" would work... GnuCash itself knows nothing about dbus.
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08:35:14 <warlord> joslwah: short answer, not really. You can do "transfers" between books of accounts, but you would need to enter that 'transfer' transaction twice.
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09:05:22 <TTT> hi, I'm trying to use gnucash for family budget, but I want some reports on who's spending how much. Do I need to create expense accounts for everyone separately, or is there another way?
09:12:48 <warlord> Either you need separate expense accounts or separate asset accounts.
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09:14:46 <warlord> @op
09:14:47 <gncbot> warlord: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
09:15:16 <warlord> @op
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09:28:31 <joslwah> warlord, Ahhh. That was what I feared.
09:29:00 <joslwah> It wasn't so much that I wanted the same transaction in two books, but an account to be shared. I can see how this would cause filtering problems.
09:29:19 <joslwah> My guess was that it wouldn't work, but that it would be really nice if it did. 8-)
09:30:31 <warlord> As a dev I can;t even imagine HOW it would work.
09:31:01 <joslwah> Yeah, that was my feeling as well. I was just kinda hoping someone would be more creative than me.
09:31:51 <joslwah> I have two different people who want my accounts kept in different ways. But I'd prefer not to have to enter everything twice. Hence the question.
09:32:33 <joslwah> I suspect I'll just have to put the work in to deal with different people.
09:33:58 <warlord> Yep.
09:34:16 <warlord> What do you mean "kept in different ways"?
09:35:37 <joslwah> Well, I have a loan. One wants to regard it to be payed off asap, the other at a fixed rate over 15 years.
09:36:37 <joslwah> So, I need to keep track of it in different ways for both of them, and declare to each of them how much is left over from some income after the loan payments occur (or have been payed off).
09:37:32 <joslwah> But the income I get will be the same in each case, so I want to copy that account's balance and credits to both "books"
09:41:24 <warlord> Huh? If you have a 15 year loan, who in their right mind wants to consider it paid off?
09:43:29 <joslwah> Naaah. It is actually a virtual loan. There are two parties interested in how much if left of it. One wants it paid off over 15 years. The other asap. The repayments in both cases are to come from a specified income account.
09:43:58 <joslwah> So, the first wants to know, month by month how much is left over from the income account after the loan repayments (according to their schedule).
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09:44:22 <joslwah> The second wants to know when the loan has been repaid, and then how much is coming from the income account.
09:45:06 <joslwah> It is a mess, and full of politics. But there you go.
09:45:12 <warlord> Why do you need two sets of books to do this, vs. different reports
09:45:13 <warlord> ?
09:46:23 <joslwah> O.k. Bear in mind this loan has interest on it, and so, to the different parties the amount of interest is different.
09:46:32 <joslwah> So, how would I do that with different reports?
09:46:51 <joslwah> If I can do it with different reports, that would be great.
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09:53:19 <warlord> Ummmmmm
09:53:25 <warlord> Why is this?
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09:54:13 <warlord> I can't imagine two government agencies would want you to report it differently..
09:56:31 <joslwah> It's not government agencies. They are much simpler, and I've got a report generated off my main book for that.
09:57:39 <warlord> Oh, these are just two people?
09:57:53 <joslwah> Effectively, yeah.
09:57:55 <warlord> Man, just tell them to do the mth themselves.
09:57:57 <joslwah> So it can be a hack.
09:58:04 <warlord> math even
09:58:18 <joslwah> However, they're two people giving me money, so expecting me to do the maths for them!
09:59:24 <joslwah> I can hack something together, but was wondering if there was an easier way.
09:59:29 <warlord> Well, then... write a report.
09:59:47 <warlord> It's probably the easiest way.
10:00:18 <warlord> Account for the loan as a loan.. but write a custom report for the person who wants to play ostritch and think it's pre-paid.
10:00:23 <joslwah> O.k. I'll go with that. It is probably not too hard to do programatically anyway.
10:01:19 <joslwah> Thanks for the discussion.
10:02:04 <warlord> you're welcome
10:22:17 <TTT> warlord, hmm, so if I split expense accounts for example, Expenses : Books => Books : TTT and Books : Spouse
10:22:26 <TTT> I can track my and my GF's expenses differently
10:22:47 <TTT> but can I get a report on who's spending how much across the entire Expenses tree?
10:22:50 <warlord> That's one way.
10:23:02 <warlord> Nope, not easily.
10:23:03 <TTT> or should I split into Expenses : TTT : Books,CDs,...
10:23:18 <TTT> and then Expenses : Spouse : Books, ...
10:23:40 <TTT> but then again, how do I get a general report by category, how much do we spend on books, all of us?
10:24:49 <warlord> You get one or the other.
10:25:33 <TTT> hmm, should I create a custom report maybe?
10:26:53 <warlord> That could work.
10:27:32 <TTT> I'll think about it, thanks for your help
10:28:10 <TTT> eww, scheme, I haven't done that since university...
10:30:28 <warlord> LOL
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11:25:04 <Marquel> morning.
11:26:22 <Marquel> how does gnucash calculate profit in the bottom line of the main window?
11:29:45 <warlord> That would be the question, wouldn't it?
11:29:55 <warlord> (the means is lost in the mists of antiquity)
11:30:05 <warlord> It SHOULD be Income - Expense.
11:30:56 <warlord> BUT.. I believe it is limited to "this calendar year"
11:31:29 <jsled> If you're comfortable with code, it's <http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/trunk/src/gnome-utils/window-main-summarybar.c>, which I recall being mostly straightforward
11:33:20 <Marquel> warlord: should be, yes. but as assets is obviously correct (assets - liabilities), i wonder why profit is now - after closing last year - negative.
11:33:39 <gxti> Marquel: because you haven't gotten paid yet? :P
11:33:47 <gxti> fwiw, mine is as well
11:34:13 <warlord> so is mine.. because I haven't been paid yet. And I didn't even close the books.
11:34:18 <Marquel> gxti: well, there are my closing transactions, which came out positive...
11:34:30 <gxti> Marquel: but last year doesn't count.
11:34:47 <gxti> also fwiw, i have never used 'close books'; i should probably figure that out
11:34:52 <Marquel> those transactions are from this year.
11:35:25 <warlord> It's possible that it takes the closing txns into account.
11:35:46 * warlord doesn't use closing txns
11:38:22 <Marquel> i have to, otherwise i'd be lost in about 360 days about what amount went into what and what numbers i have to write into my tax computation...
11:39:31 <warlord> Marquel: that's what the Balance Sheet and Income Statement reports are for!
11:39:44 <warlord> (note that the Book Closing could potentially throw those reports off, too)
11:39:50 <warlord> ... i haven't tested.
11:40:04 <gxti> well, if those txns go into 2009 then it wouldn't be a problem
11:40:43 <Marquel> warlord: those txns are in 2009, thus the reports for 2008 are still working.
11:41:40 <warlord> yes, but in a year you'll have trouble ;)
11:43:32 <Marquel> those txns can be filtered for reports.
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11:53:12 <warlord> can be, but I dont think they are by default.
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11:54:14 <andi5> warlord: do you really need my preferred user name? :)
11:54:14 <gncbot> andi5: Sent 16 hours and 3 minutes ago: <warlord> no, I do not believe it is reasonable to compress SQLite files...
11:55:08 <Marquel> if they're named right ("Closing Entries"), they are. Probably a bug for l10n... but i guess, summary bar doesn't filter...
11:55:57 <warlord> andi5: Not you, silly!
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11:57:16 <warlord> The description is user settable.
11:58:20 <warlord> There is no special tag in the closing transaction that mark them as anything special.
12:01:47 <Marquel> warlord: yes, reports filter by their names (with regexp if needed), but summary does probably not... :/
12:02:51 <warlord> Marquel: it does? /me needs to look at that.
12:04:47 <warlord> Interesting.
12:05:01 <warlord> Perhaps that code should be abstracted out so its not required in every report?
12:05:55 <Marquel> huh?
12:08:18 <warlord> well, it's in the income statement..
12:08:33 <warlord> but it should probably be in all reports that handle income and expense accounts.
12:08:46 <warlord> (and the closing transactions should have some standard tag)
12:09:17 <Marquel> probably.
12:09:59 <Marquel> i don't know about internal structures and don't know if there are free fields for such data...
12:12:09 <warlord> We could use the TxnNotes.. Or we could extend the TxnType.. Or we could add a new KVP field.
12:13:02 <Marquel> if you say so, i have to believe you.
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12:34:47 <Marquel> warlord: i guess there's no work being done on txns from hbci and payments?
12:35:58 <warlord> no
12:43:07 <Marquel> i wonder how much work would be included in making a hbci txn a payment and thus make an invoice paid...
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14:18:16 <andi5> warlord: do you want me to forward the mail?
14:19:14 <warlord> didn't it go to both you and cstim?
14:22:02 <andi5> cstim was on cc
14:22:20 <andi5> well, will do that at home :)
14:23:39 <warlord> i dont care who sends it out
14:23:43 <andi5> k
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14:32:56 <warlord> andi5: are you subbed to -user?
14:34:03 <andi5> yep
14:34:30 <andi5> not that i manage to read and answer a lot
14:37:11 <warlord> You should try to at least peruse the win32 questions..
14:38:14 <Marquel> re warlord
14:38:25 <andi5> anything in particular?
14:38:26 <warlord> yes?
14:38:44 <warlord> andi5: Oh, like there was just someone asking about prefs not saving in 2.8.8 -- probably a FAQ.
14:39:03 <andi5> gnubie?
14:39:19 <warlord> yes
14:39:28 <andi5> well, i am at work, i will not answer mails from here...
14:39:43 <andi5> but i will try to do at home then
14:40:38 <warlord> That's fine! I appreciate it!
14:40:40 <warlord> (how is work?)
14:43:57 <andi5> hm... it is both, stress and fun because of a lot of new things to learn ... i wanted to leave 30 minutes ago but now i am hunting a bug again :(
14:45:18 <warlord> LOL. I know the feeling.
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15:17:29 <Marquel> my gf has a good idea of what bug-hunting means: no cuddletime till early morning...
15:19:46 <warlord> Is that good or bad?
15:22:44 <Marquel> "you not coming to bed tonight _again_?" - bug-hunting means: "I wake up alone, because he's saving the digital world. i can't remember waking up and he was still there.... that must be how mrs. superman feels like..."
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15:25:29 <Marquel> so i assume the answer is "bad"... ;)
15:27:23 <Marquel> i should add she didn't want one of those long-haired, white-skinned script-kiddies associating "sun" with a computer company... bad luck i picked her up at a local grocery store where she still works...
15:28:06 <warlord> LOL
15:30:27 <Marquel> bad habit of me not ordering everything over the intarwebz... ;) but the store costs less than every pizza service in town... so... you know... and she doesn't even have her own email-address... so i guess, she does not really exist...
15:30:50 <Marquel> OUCH! but for an unreal person she bites pretty painfully....
15:31:05 <warlord> Hi Mrs. Marquel!
15:31:18 <Marquel> hi
15:31:51 <warlord> Feel free to smack him and take him to bed.
15:31:58 <warlord> Whatever bug he's fixing can wait until the morning.
15:31:58 <warlord> ;)
15:33:08 <Marquel> what? again? he just dragged me to bed a few hours ago...
15:33:24 <warlord> LOL.
15:33:47 <warlord> Aha! I see what he's trying to do now.
15:34:23 <Marquel> watching snooker... to refill my batteries for the next ... bedtime story...
15:34:59 <Marquel> yeah, he thinks, watching those balls move will make his recover haha
15:35:01 <warlord> This is TMI.
15:37:43 <Marquel> well... she always points out i've made a monster out of her.... she always insists she was nice and innocent before we met... honestly i don't believe it...
15:38:30 <andi5> got it... cya
15:38:43 <Marquel> cu andi5
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15:39:44 <warlord> LOL.
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23:20:47 <fbond> Hi. The balance sheet report has an option to include unrealized gains (it is enabled by default).
23:21:10 <fbond> But this really shouldn't be optional, right? If they are excluded, the balance sheet doesn't balance. That can't be right.
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