2009-01-03 GnuCash IRC logs
00:31:11 <Pavel> This is weird...
00:38:37 <Pavel> On a whim, I decided to see if I could track the trend in my net worth in gold. I imported the daily price of gold (XAU) in USD for the past few years (using an ugly script that writes directly to the .xac file), and tried to make an Assets and Liabilities Barchart, with XAU set as the "currency" to use. My hope was that it would take the the net worth in USD at each time point and divide it by the value of XAU in USD for that time point.
00:38:37 <Pavel> It seems to do that, but only for the stock assets, and not the dollar-denominated assets.
00:39:04 <Pavel> That is, it only counts stock assets for the calculation, ignoring cash and bank accounts.
00:39:49 <Pavel> I made an asset pie chart for a single point in time, similarly setting "currency" to XAU, and got the same result.
00:40:57 <Pavel> An anyone else reproduce that?
00:42:02 <Pavel> Oh, a workaround: go into the Price Editor, and create a single entry for commodity CURRENCY:USD denominated in USD having the value 1.
00:42:24 * Pavel doesn't want to know what would happen if you set it to something other than 1.
00:46:55 <goodger> Pavel: anywhere from "woah, dude" to a crash...
00:47:19 <goodger> anyway I'm going to bed, as it's a quarter to six AM here. good night (or whatever)
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02:52:18 <khc> is there a way to set multiple transactions' transfer accounts at the same time?
02:53:07 <khc> I want to categorize the expenses base on the description
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08:30:55 <dennis> Quicky update... still playing around with a custom module set for GC on OSX. I've got everything to build and it's working. Only dependency I don't have yet is the perl finance quote module.
08:31:53 <dennis> Once I correct the moduleset dependencies to have released versions I'll see if I can change the target to an application location and from there, see about putting it on a disk image.
08:32:10 <dennis> on a side note, I noticed other applications recently that must be installed in /Applications to work correctly.
08:32:22 <dennis> I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation.
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09:16:27 <warlord> dennis: COOL!
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09:17:45 <goodger> warlord: would you care for a funny story?
09:18:14 <warlord> ummm.. sure... I've only got about 5 minutes before i'm heading out for a bit, but sure.
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09:20:24 <goodger> ok. I recently did a bank reconciliation and found that the total was inaccurate
09:20:32 <goodger> not very inaccurate, just a few pounds off
09:21:22 <goodger> I checked everything, I went through all of our receipts and invoices, and reviewed google checkout's payments page; I rejigged the account hierarchy in several areas to counteract the effects of bank transfer delays
09:21:42 <goodger> I gave each customer who had not paid through google checkout their own account
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09:21:51 <goodger> still nothing.
09:22:15 <goodger> finally I resolved to go through it transaction by transaction... and I noticed an item in the accounts that did not appear in the statement
09:22:31 <goodger> it was a cheque for £17 that I had mailed to my business partner, that he had not bothered to cash...
09:22:38 <goodger> stern words will be had
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09:23:50 <warlord> Well, this is why you're supposed to enter (by hand) the ending balance in the reconcile dialog, and then in the reconcile window you go txn by txn through the statement and click off those on the statement.
09:24:37 <goodger> oh, I didn't know it did that... previous accounting packages I have used just generate a useless "reconciliation" transaction that corrects the balance without fixing the problem
09:24:41 <warlord> biab
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09:24:46 <goodger> additionally, I have recently received a few emails from americans asking if they can pay the equivalent of "26.99 lb" in US dollars... you should cringe
09:27:24 <goodger> it makes GBP sound like cocaine, except of course cocaine is sold by the kilogram
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09:46:35 <warlord> heh.
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10:00:40 <warlord> how many rolfs are there? ;)
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10:02:19 <goodger> depends on the ratio of internet connection instability to timeout period...
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10:07:59 <jose> I set up a file with the common accounts and then I created a budget. Then I entered value for the expenses subaccounts. But the Expenses row does not show the sum of the subaccounts.
10:09:20 <jose> The sum of subaccounts is not calculated on the budget report either.
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10:54:02 <warlord> sorry,jose, I know nothing about the budgeting features.
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11:16:38 <fbond> Oh, I could've helped there.
11:16:44 <fbond> Oh, well.
11:16:55 <fbond> So, Income Statements can ignore "closing transactions".
11:16:59 <fbond> I have no idea what that means.
11:17:04 <fbond> Link?
11:18:17 <warlord> the zero-izing transactions from Tools -> Close Books.
11:18:48 <fbond> Right, well I need a basic explanation of what it is to "close the books".
11:18:54 <fbond> Since I have no accounting background. ;)
11:20:03 <warlord> From google for "closing books": http://www.toolkit.com/small_business_guide/sbg.aspx?nid=P06_1500
11:20:31 <fbond> warlord: Thanks/sorry.
11:20:37 <goodger> welcome back again, fbond
11:20:55 <fbond> goodger: howdy
11:21:00 <fbond> goodger: That's American for "hello".
11:21:16 <warlord> actually, it's texan
11:21:24 <fbond> We're all Texans in America.
11:21:31 <warlord> Ummm.. NOT!
11:21:34 <fbond> ;)
11:22:04 <goodger> I suspect if my Wisconsinite friend ever says howdy, it will be immediately prior to eating some sort of hat
11:22:18 <warlord> LOL
11:22:20 <warlord> yeah
11:22:28 * warlord is a midwestern boy, too
11:27:16 <goodger> god only knows whether Wisconsinite is the right word
11:27:27 <fbond> warlord: Okay, I understand what closing the books is, and I understand why a business would do it. Is it important in personal finance?
11:27:48 <goodger> fbond: typically no. your tax returns will be far more draconian
11:28:17 <warlord> fbond: Well, some people like to zeroize their income and expense accounts at the end of the year.
11:28:40 <warlord> ... so they can see a running total in the CoA.
11:33:02 <fbond> CoA?
11:33:21 <fbond> Anyway, there are no closing entries in a budget, so I need to remove that from the Budget Income Statement...
11:34:12 <warlord> Chart of Account
11:34:12 <warlord> s
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11:36:26 <aphexer> I'm trying out the budgetting functionality. I created a new budget, and now I'm wondering: will there be some time I won't have enouph cash on hand to pay for everything? There's like one month with alot of expenses, and the big income only comes a few months later. Can I see some ledger showing me the *expected* state of the Cash account at some date in the future?
11:38:39 <fbond> aphexer: I'm working on some new reports, one of which is a projected Income Statement from budget data. Would that help?
11:39:20 <aphexer> fbond: it does look like what I'm looking for
11:39:31 <aphexer> fbond: but why only projected Income? Why not for any account?
11:40:01 <fbond> aphexer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_Statement
11:40:09 <fbond> It includes total income vs. expenses.
11:40:24 <fbond> I'm also working on a Budget Balance Sheet.
11:40:34 <fbond> These are nearly complete...
11:41:58 <warlord> gotta go
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11:42:24 <aphexer> ah the income statement also covers expenses :) (I wasn't familiar with the term "income statement", it's different here)
11:43:43 <aphexer> I think the problem is that when making a budget, you don't have to specify where the money will come from
11:44:16 <fbond> aphexer: Yeah, that's right.
11:44:34 <fbond> aphexer: Of course, the IS only tells you if your budget balances for the year, not that you'll have enough cash at any particular time.
11:44:47 <fbond> I wonder if the Budget Flow report does what you need?
11:44:52 <aphexer> the IS? (some tax agency I guess?)
11:44:57 <fbond> Not sure, but I suspect what you need is not implemented yet...
11:45:02 <fbond> IS = Income Statement
11:45:06 <aphexer> oh of course
11:45:15 <fbond> gotta run for now; be back later
11:45:23 <aphexer> ok thanks already
11:45:29 <fbond> np
11:46:11 <aphexer> Can't seem to find a "budget flow report"
11:46:32 <aphexer> using gnucash v2.2.6
11:47:19 <goodger> perhaps just budget report?
11:48:08 <aphexer> goodger: that's why I'm looking at already, it doesn't really do what I need:)
11:48:27 <goodger> ah
11:48:37 <aphexer> but probably no report can, as long as you can't specify from where to where the money goes in your budget
11:48:53 <aphexer> I think I actually need future transactions, you specify on which date or just month you expect it to happen
11:49:06 <aphexer> then the ledger can show you the state of that account on some specific date
11:50:41 <aphexer> the current budgetting features could be reworked to work like that, it seems to be more flexible
11:50:51 <aphexer> but I'm not sure :)
12:37:13 <fbond> aphexer: I think you could get what you wanted if there was a cumalative per-budget-period income/expense report.
12:37:17 <fbond> Like:
12:37:52 <fbond> Period Revenue Period Expenses Cum. Revenue Cum. Expenses
12:38:15 <fbond> If Cum. Revenue < Cum. Expenses, you have a cash flow problem.
12:38:36 <fbond> That's assuming that all saved funds can be used to pay expenses.
12:38:50 <fbond> If you put funds into a savings bond or something, it wouldn't work...
12:39:37 <fbond> (or so... I think I'm missing a few things...)
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13:12:34 <aphexer> fbond: I see what you're saying, and indeed then it has to assume all saved funds can be used to pay expenses
13:13:59 <aphexer> fbond: I think the whole budgetting thing could be made alot more flexible by allowing transactions in the future and having some special mark set on them so that gnucash knows it's only budgetted, not a real transactions. Then the ledger by default only displays transactions with the flag set off. In the "budget ledger" however it shows all transactions...
13:14:47 <aphexer> Then you can see in your ledger if at any point your balance goes negative
13:19:21 <fbond> aphexer: Yes; sounds aweful to input, though ... ?
13:19:54 <fbond> aphexer: Plus, for many cases, you don't budget specific expenditures, just a monthly average. Dates become wierd...
13:25:01 <aphexer> fbond: well then you just input one transaction per month, date not further specified
13:25:57 <aphexer> the way the input is done can be different than for regular transactions, to make it easier
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13:27:09 <cyd> Hello
13:27:19 <goodger> hello there
13:27:49 <cyd> Do someone use GNUCash in a company ?
13:27:55 <goodger> I do
13:28:27 <goodger> (presumably others do also)
13:28:37 <cyd> you know if it can replace software : "Cubic for Dos" ?
13:28:50 <cyd> if you know that one
13:29:10 <goodger> erm, I've never heard of it
13:29:12 <aphexer> sounds like you need to have some kind of minimum age to know the program
13:29:22 <goodger> then again, I learned to read after win95 came out
13:29:30 <cyd> ^^
13:29:45 <goodger> the joys of youth
13:30:23 <goodger> are there any specific features of this caelocanth-like program that you are concerned with?
13:30:25 <cyd> this cubic is still runing on many companies on windows XP
13:32:06 <goodger> I have seen similar scenarios in large chain shops: a P4 running winXP is used to telnet into an ancient UNX mainframe, thus wasting over 99% of the processing power of the P4
13:32:09 <cyd> goodger: Not really, i'm just looking for an alternative, so if i can find something for accountancy company, maybe i can migrate them to linux
13:32:57 <cyd> probably the best is to install gnucash on on windows post and ask them to look
13:34:20 <goodger> ah.
13:35:01 <goodger> well, if it's hooked into some monstrous payroll system or anything like that, you're stuffed
13:35:17 <goodger> otherwise gnucash is a very capable book-keeping and accounting package
13:36:45 <cyd> maybe you know non free software that runs on linux ?
13:37:28 <goodger> non-free accounting software for linux? not that I know of, why do you ask?
13:37:49 <aphexer> there's also kmymoney as an (somehwat more basic) alternative
13:38:18 <aphexer> but i'd checkout the open alternatives before the paid ones
13:49:30 <cyd> aphexer: yeah, i'm looking for open or closed, i know that "BOB 50" will be choose if i found no alternatives :(
13:49:47 <cyd> i don't like taht one because it does'nt run on linux
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14:46:36 <fbond> Thanks to everyone that has been helping me with the budget reports I've been working on.
14:46:44 <fbond> I just sent an e-mail to gnucash-devel with the patch attached.
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18:22:13 <andi5> warlord: every famous oss product has a one-click download from its homepage.... do you think gnucash needs that as well?
18:23:30 <andi5> i do not mind making more clicks but learning on the way... but maybe i cannot be regarded as normal ;-)
18:27:34 <jsled> that would be a great change.
18:28:56 <jsled> just a big [DOWNLOAD] button right in the user's face at www.gnucash.org, and then it's all "Windows? OS X? Linux?" with one sentence or link. The Windows should just link to the installer, the other two would be "use fink/macports or your OS' manager".
18:30:06 <andi5> auto-detect the os from the user-agent string?
18:30:51 <jsled> more trouble than it's worth, imho, but a nice refinement, yes.
18:32:00 <andi5> jsled: do you have experience with binary gnucash packages? did we distribute some some time ago?
18:32:36 <jsled> binary linux packages?
18:32:42 <andi5> yup
18:35:01 <warlord> We used to... a LONG long time ago.. Like 1.4 and MAYBE 1.6
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18:35:46 * jsled has no clue
18:37:08 <andi5> why did we stop that? too much work to create them, too many support questions, unusable builds, ...?
18:41:49 <warlord> Yes...
18:41:53 <warlord> And the distros took over.
18:44:22 <andi5> maybe we can find web sites that describe how to open the distros package manager, possibly with a special link, for some of the major distros... maybe not... well, if anyone knows anything... :)
18:50:19 <warlord> Personally, I think that anyone running Linux who doesn't know how to use their package manager to install distribution-provided software probably shouldn't be running/administering a Linux machine.
18:50:31 <andi5> hehe
18:52:06 * andi5 makes a mental bookmark to quote it later...
18:52:44 <warlord> LOL
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19:19:39 * dennis agrees w/ warlord
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19:20:42 <dennis> I think People running Linux probably ask how to install GC less often than other OS users.
19:21:08 <warlord> I honestly dont think we need a page to say "yum install gnucash" or "apt-get install gnucash"
19:22:09 <jsled> right. For the "linux" option it should just say "use your distribution's package manager to install gnucash".
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19:23:01 <andi5> well, ok...
19:23:17 <jsled> And OSX probably points to http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOSXInstallation
19:23:27 <andi5> we can point to the tarballs as well...
19:24:18 <jsled> So … "Windows? OS X? Linux? Source?"
19:24:25 <andi5> a full-blown dmg file is coming... i feel it
19:24:30 <jsled> heh
19:24:36 <jsled> I'll believe it when I see it.
19:25:12 <andi5> well, we even have a windows version.... *still wondering sometimes*
19:26:26 <andi5> jsled: i would strip the source option and insert it into every subpage / popup / whatever... in the end, it is open-source :)
19:27:18 <andi5> on windows that would be equal to pointing to /wiki/Window
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19:32:45 <andi5> ok, i will be afk for a while and back home on tuesday.... see you!
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19:35:31 <warlord> Bye andi..
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20:49:07 <BehindCurtain> question: is there a doc that explains the fields recorded in the .log files? (like what the codes in the mod field mean?)
20:49:25 <warlord> just the code.
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21:27:46 <chuck> Hi. Is there a way to track investments in gnucash?
21:36:20 <warlord> of course.
21:37:53 <chuck> i read the help, but can't seem to get updates for the accounts. how can I do it?
21:39:34 <warlord> updates? Meaning price quotes?
21:40:45 <chuck> No, actually I have four mutual fund investments that I would like to get daily updates on the values.
21:42:11 <warlord> so you want to get the price quotes for your mutual funds?
21:43:25 <chuck> Yes. If I keep the # of shares update, I would like to get the value of the portfolio at the end of the day.
21:45:32 <warlord> Install Finance::Quote, then configure your fund commodities appropriately and tell GnuCash where to download price quotes.
21:48:05 <chuck> Thanks, I am trying to switch from MS Money and am not sure where do I find Finance::Quote.
21:48:59 <warlord> WHat OS/Distro?
21:49:29 <chuck> Limux Mint 6
21:49:47 <chuck> sorry , Linux Mint 6
21:50:14 <warlord> Never heard of it.
21:50:38 <warlord> well, assuming they dont have it packaged already, you can use 'gnc-fq-update' to pull it in.
21:51:08 <chuck> It is based on Ubuntu
21:51:29 <warlord> oh..
21:51:38 <warlord> apt-get install perl-finance-quote ?
21:58:22 <chuck> When I trird the perl-finance-quote apt-get, I got an error message that no package was found. I have libfinance-quote-perl installed, but have no clue how to use it. I guess I'll call it a night here and see if I can get some help on that on the Ubuntu forums.
21:58:49 <warlord> That's what you need.
21:59:11 <warlord> try: gnc-fq-dump <quote source> <fund symbol>
22:03:10 <chuck> Thanks, that got me the closing value. Now, how do I get that integrated with gnucash?
22:03:49 <warlord> configure that quote source and fund symbol in your gnucash security editor.. Then you can click 'get quotes'.
22:10:07 <chuck> Thanks for your patience. This is all quite new to me. I was able to add one of the funds, but I don't see the option to 'get quotes'
22:10:53 <warlord> Open the Price Editor
22:15:35 <chuck> Thanks, I got an error message Unable to retrieve quotes for these items:
22:15:35 <chuck> NYSE:RERBX
22:15:35 <chuck> NYSE:RIRBX
22:16:40 <warlord> What do you have for the quote source and symbol for those securities?
22:18:47 <chuck> I have the NYSE as the source and RERBX as the symbol
22:20:04 <warlord> Huh. What works for me.
22:21:35 <chuck> Should I be going for the Single or multiple settings
22:22:35 <warlord> Where?
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22:23:40 <chuck> In the 'Quote Source Information' on the Security Editor.
22:25:51 <warlord> i'm afraid I dont know.
22:25:55 <warlord> Have you read the docs on that page?
22:28:21 <chuck> Yes, but it looks like I need to go back and read them again. I want to get to the point where I can monitor all of my accounts on the 'Accounts' tab. So, I just need to play around some more and do some more reading to see what works. Again, thanks for allyour help.
22:28:58 <warlord> You're welcome.
22:29:08 <warlord> I'm sorry I dont know exactly what settings you want here.
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22:46:22 <wteiken> hi, I'm having some trouble with postponed transactions not working after switching from 2.2.1 to 2.2.7, anybody an idea?
22:48:31 <wteiken> if I select "postpone" the transaction gets pretty much dropped (the sx:deferredInstance is not set correctly)
22:53:18 <warlord> sorry, jsled is the SX guru.
22:56:40 <wteiken> is there a way to export/import everything? with a new data file it seems to work
22:59:32 <warlord> Not really..
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