2009-01-01 GnuCash IRC logs

00:01:44 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
00:01:47 <warlord> Happy New Year everyone!
00:01:49 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
00:03:15 <goodger> you're five hours late
00:03:25 <goodger> you missed my computer crashing due to the leap second
00:03:28 <goodger> :P
00:03:44 <gxti> i got distracted by some webcomic and missed out on seeing 23:59:60
00:03:55 <gxti> but dmesg says it worked, so i believe it.
00:07:09 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
00:07:16 <warlord> nah, you're just five hours early.
00:07:27 <warlord> Everyone knows it's not new years until the ball drops in New York. ;-)
00:13:34 <goodger> I'd like to see you lot beat our firework display
00:14:13 <goodger> anyway, I must go to bed
00:14:16 <goodger> happy new year and such
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08:33:26 <phil> Is there a way to represent "earmarks" on some of the money in an account?
08:33:42 *** phil is now known as EmleyMoor
08:34:18 <EmleyMoor> I keep external notes of them at the moment
08:37:57 <EmleyMoor> I hink I've found a way
08:38:02 <EmleyMoor> think*
08:41:44 <EmleyMoor> Sub-accounts cotributing to same total
08:59:07 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
08:59:24 <warlord> EmleyMoor: "bucket" subaccounts.
09:00:47 <EmleyMoor> Indeed - shame it took me so long to think of it
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10:49:32 <yotux> I have a question about gnucash
10:49:54 <yotux> does it have the ability to memorize transactions
10:50:28 <yotux> Or is there a quick way to enter how the transaction go into there respective expense account
10:54:12 <goodger> you type the first few letters of the name of a previously used transaction, and hit tab
10:54:15 <goodger> quick enough?
10:54:41 <yotux> I have been using quicken for year here an example
10:55:26 <yotux> is there a way to just use the Name of an expense without going expense:name
10:56:04 <yotux> Auto:Gas = Expense:Auto:Gas
10:56:21 <yotux> is there a way to just use Auto:Gas
10:57:03 <goodger> er, no, since expense accounts are not handled uniquely
10:57:46 <jsled> yotux: the register will autofill based on previous transactions.
10:57:48 <goodger> you can of course name your first transaction "fillup" and then type in "fillup" in future, then hit tab, and change the numbers (the accounts will be input for you)
10:57:58 <jsled> If the memo matches string literally.
10:58:12 <yotux> If I buy gas at lets say mobile most of the time will gnucash remember that its that type of expense?
10:58:28 <jsled> Also, in the account selection of the register, using the account separator character will function like a tab-complete on that part of the account path.
10:59:15 <jsled> So, for Expenses:Auto:Gas you should be able to get away with "ex:au:g" ("ex" because "ex_penses" conflicts with "eq_uity", and I'm guessing the same would be true with "au_to".)
10:59:20 <yotux> sorry really new to gnucash and trying to import last three months of transaction
10:59:36 <goodger> gnucash has no way to identify where you bought your gas from
10:59:39 <yotux> I will try that thank you
11:00:03 <jsled> yotux: it's not so much that it "remembers [it's] that type of expense" as it makes a copy of the splits from the previous transaction.
11:00:17 <yotux> goodger: if I tell gnucash that I have bought gas at mobile in the past make a relationship with it
11:00:53 <goodger> I don't think it particularly cares, unless you make a "mobile" subaccount
11:01:17 <yotux> ubuntu and gnucash are starting to be able to work together more so for the new year I am trying to migrate to gnucash
11:01:31 <goodger> what on earth do you mean?
11:01:39 <yotux> Thankz everyone for the help that you have offered me
11:01:43 <jsled> Right. e.g., I always buy my gas at "Shelly's Gas and Go" on the corner. My transaction descriptions are of the form: "Shelly's Gas: ## gal @ $ppg / ## miles". So I type "Shelly" and it completes the transaction splits from the previous go, then I adjust it all.
11:02:59 <goodger> yotux: what do you mean, "ubuntu and gnucash are starting to be able to work together more"?
11:03:20 <yotux> online banking was not allowed before ubuntu 8.10
11:03:37 <yotux> something to do with licensing if I recall correctly
11:04:11 <goodger> very well...
11:04:51 <yotux> 8.10 we now have online banking is offered via ubuntu repos
11:05:47 <goodger> right. that makes marginally more sense
11:22:28 <chris> hey everybody
11:23:09 <jsled> happy new year, chris
11:23:11 <chris> I just wanted to wish everyone a happy new year.
11:23:23 <chris> jsled: thanks :)
11:23:51 <chris> jsled: are you buried in snow?
11:24:49 <jsled> naw, not too much. We had a half-foot or so the week before christmas. Then over the weekend it got up to nearly 60°F (!) so it all melted, then we only got a dusting in the last couple of days.
11:25:14 <jsled> Supposedly snow tomorrow/Sat, but unclear how much.
11:25:57 <warlord> Happy New year, chris
11:26:19 <warlord> @op chris
11:26:20 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
11:26:43 <chris> that's odd. I'd have thought you'd have gotten more than us. We got about a foot before Christmas, and then it all melted and then we got another 6-8 inches yesterday.
11:26:52 <chris> warlord: thank, same to you! :)
11:28:17 <jsled> wow.
11:29:42 <chris> The first batch of snow was moderately wet, but this recent stuff is bone-dry.
11:29:58 <chris> I had fun taking the kids out in it this morning.
11:30:32 <jsled> :)
11:30:43 <chris> They're almost 4 and 2 years old now.
11:31:10 <warlord> Same age as my nephews. (who just turned 4 and 2)
11:38:05 <chris> let's see if I remember how to do this...
11:38:31 <chris> @tell cstimm Prosit Neujahr!
11:38:31 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
11:38:41 <chris> @tell andi5 Prosit Neujahr!
11:38:41 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
11:38:59 * goodger claws out his own eyes
11:39:24 <jsled> (only one 'm' on cstim, though.)
11:40:07 <chris> @tell cstim Prosit Neujahr!
11:40:07 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
11:40:21 <chris> jsled: oh thanks
11:40:31 <goodger> *eyes roll*
11:40:50 <jsled> goodger: huh?
11:42:22 <goodger> well, really
11:42:26 <goodger> the date changed
11:42:41 <goodger> nothing else happened, except my computer crashed due to the leap second
11:43:15 <goodger> we don't have to continue talking about it seventeen hours later
11:43:22 <jsled> kindly fuck off.
11:43:29 <jsled> :)
11:43:53 <warlord> And it's only 11h43m later.. get it right.
11:43:58 <goodger> warlord: UTC
11:44:10 <warlord> c.f. jsled.
11:44:15 <warlord> :)
11:44:27 <warlord> (or would that be "ibid"?)
11:44:39 <chris> goodger: lol, you're right; maybe best wishes are more appropriate every day!
11:45:21 <goodger> jsled: that's the sort of thing I find absolutely maddening --- little shites who stand saying things they know to be rude, but wearing a silly grin, because they are arrogant enough to think it will distract me from the rudeness
11:46:03 <goodger> chris: perhaps we could just celebrate days with meaning
11:46:21 <chris> goodger: which one(s) do you propose?
11:46:42 <jsled> the rudeness, imho, is eye-rolling and eye-clawing when people basically celebrate the new year, which is a nice shared secular event (well, being calendar-based, maybe not, but that's another discussion)
11:47:25 <goodger> chris: winter solstice and vernal equinox are pretty good, also anniversaries of the times when specific people died for our freedom
11:47:37 <jsled> it's one of those "5 muscles to smile, 20 to frown" or "if you don't have anything nice to say" things. Why even bother commenting on it?
11:52:34 <goodger> if you have the right to wish me a happy new year, then I have the right to tell you that I think you're wasting your time and my own; and you have no right to swear at me, particularly using that patronising grin-and-switch tactic, under any circumstances
11:53:22 <jsled> heh.
11:54:02 <goodger> you are, however, permitted to laugh at anything I say that you find amusing
11:54:13 <jsled> Yes, well thanks for permitting that for me.
11:54:21 <chris> haha
11:54:28 <warlord> lol
11:54:39 <goodger> so long as you accept that sarcastic replies will be responded to with utter bile
11:54:51 <warlord> utter bile is not welcome here.
11:55:04 <warlord> you're welcome to take it to dev-null.
11:55:08 * jsled just drops it.
11:55:16 <goodger> better.
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11:56:37 <chris> goodger: hey look! today's the birthday of both Paul Revere and Betsy Ross!
11:57:05 <chris> let's celebrate!
11:57:17 <warlord> W00t!!
11:58:09 <chris> I think I plan on celebrating their birthdays by going around wishing people "happy new years". yeah.
11:58:44 <goodger> well, they both contributed to a very unpleasant war against my country, so I will opt out from celebrating those particular two anniversaries
12:00:02 <warlord> Well if you hadn't taxed our tea maybe we'd still be a part of your country. :-P
12:01:09 <goodger> you're saying that the American War of Independence was caused by the tea tax? ¬.¬
12:01:16 <goodger> anyway, brb
12:02:18 <warlord> "Taxation without Representation" was certainly one of the issues, yes.
12:19:30 <goodger> well, I don't think it's fair to say that the US would still be a colony of England if it were not for the tea tax
12:20:27 <goodger> in any case, the average american was reportedly paying 1/50 the amount of tax that the average briton paid
12:20:55 <warlord> perhaps, but the average american had 0 representation in the british government.
12:24:06 <goodger> so where do you propose the kingdom of great britain should have got the money to pay for the colonies?
12:26:32 <goodger> oh well. I CBA with this
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12:28:16 <asfak> does gnucash support invenotry ?
12:28:28 <chris> what I find ironic is that even though America won independence, and even though taxation was a significant motivator, Americans now, with their representative government, pay far higher taxes than even Britains did in the 18th century.
12:28:36 <jsled> asfak: no
12:30:07 <goodger> chris: well, yes; social security and welfare programs, socialised medicine and other modern advances cost money
12:31:04 <warlord> I wish we had real socialized medicine here.
12:31:18 <asfak> jsled, i have been using gnucash for all my accounting purpose since last 2 years. I never needed inventory support. Now to handle brothers job of simple one item inventory handling i am searching for good opensource software. Can anyone suggest me one ?
12:32:04 <goodger> warlord: well, of course, you do not; but we do, and you have apparently the nearest thing without using the word "socialism"
12:32:29 <goodger> I have never quite understood why americans hate socialism so much
12:34:22 <chris> goodger: many don't. I do, however, because I don't like the idea of having the people with the guns having any responsibilities other than punishing criminals and protecting me.
12:35:21 <goodger> what other responsibilities does socialism introduce for them, in your view?
12:35:23 <warlord> asfak: sorry, don't know what to suggest for you.
12:35:36 <chris> It seems like a bad idea to me to ask the same people who are entitled to demand money from me, with coercive force, to also be responsible for say, my health care.
12:36:25 <chris> seems like that could be a conflict of interest.
12:36:45 <goodger> so you would ideally have privatised healthcare?
12:37:02 <jsled> goodger: I'd say in short a Cold War's worth of cultural conditioning about the Evils of communism and the conflation of that with socialism.
12:37:56 <goodger> chris: you trust them to maintain your roads, though? and to keep armies to protect you against national enemies?
12:38:27 <chris> personally, I'd gladly pay taxes for defence and for maintaining justice, but that's about it.
12:38:36 <warlord> the former, yes. The latter... well.. was Iraq really a national enemy?
12:38:43 <jsled> at the extreme of another axis, you have Socialism = Slavery as promoted by Hayek.
12:39:11 <chris> goodger: roads, no. armies, to a degree, yes.
12:39:16 <goodger> warlord: obviously not, but let's say, for instance, the UK decided to annex Massachusetts again
12:39:54 <jsled> I personally think that government bureaucracy has non-existent motivation for efficiency.
12:40:31 <warlord> goodger: I think the Massachusetts Militia / Minutemen will do a fine job a second time. ;)
12:40:32 <goodger> ok, so going back to the roads
12:40:59 <goodger> how do you apply the principles of the free market to roads?
12:41:06 <jsled> I guess the question is is that cost worth the benefit. And compared with the negatives in a wholly-privatized approach, is that preferrable? Or some hybrid of privatization + real regulation.
12:41:32 <goodger> you cannot reasonably have competition between multiple roads for the same route, or you end up with an entire continent of asphalt
12:41:35 <chris> sure, roads. I don't like the idea of people with guns demanding money from me to build roads, ostenesible for my benefit.
12:42:07 <goodger> and you cannot have regional monopolies of roads, because that destroys the entire idea of competition
12:42:51 <goodger> the only workable option is a state monopoly on public roads, which is in fact what the US does
12:43:03 <goodger> this is funded through taxation
12:43:04 <chris> now, I would gladly *pay* someone else money (who doesn't have the guns) to build roads for me.
12:43:10 <goodger> the road maintaining is socialised
12:43:50 <goodger> chris: the army has guns, not the tax collectors. if you don't want to pay your taxes, then fine --- you don't get to drive on the roads
12:43:55 <chris> goodger: I agree that's how it is, but not that it's the only way.
12:44:28 <chris> goodger: er wait, that applied to what you said previously, not that last bit.
12:44:46 <goodger> I think you're conflating socialism with a slightly exaggerated view of communism as featured in the soviet union of >1960
12:45:06 <chris> goodger: If you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail.
12:45:28 <chris> goodger: if you refuse to go to jail, they have guns.
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12:45:33 <goodger> chris: only some of your taxes. the road-funding taxes are optional
12:45:53 <chris> goodger: no, not in USA.
12:46:04 <goodger> well, then, the USA has a flawed implementation
12:46:19 <goodger> but the idea of democracy is that you are not obliged to pay these taxes... you can participate in the democratic process and get them repealed
12:46:54 <jsled> I can conceive of a marketplace of business who were granted the rights to build, maintain and operate sections of the road. The market then is not the infrastucture, but the services relating to it.
12:47:44 <chris> goodger: true, and our democracy has effectively chosen socialism. I just happen to be in the disapointed minority.
12:48:01 <warlord> Well, often you pay the taxes indirectly.. E.g. taxes on Petrol.
12:48:06 <goodger> jsled: who maintains the actual tarmac under such a thing
12:48:19 <warlord> So, th more petrol you buy, the more taxes you pay (ostensibly towards roads)
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12:48:27 <goodger> ah, yes, warlord has a point--- gas tax!
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12:49:02 <jsled> whatever entity is granted or is operating the contract for that section of road.
12:49:21 <goodger> ah.
12:49:27 <goodger> we tried that in the UK
12:50:11 <goodger> it's a system known as the private finance initiative. basically, you pay (with taxpayers' money) for a nationalised industry to be run by a private company
12:50:35 <goodger> and the private company is thereby freed from the inconvenient parts of the free market, such as competition
12:51:04 <jsled> sounds essentially flawed. :)
12:51:05 <chris> goodger: yeah, see, that's just subsidization. We have railways done that way.
12:51:15 <goodger> yes
12:51:22 <goodger> our railways are subsidised too
12:51:42 <goodger> twenty years ago they were a nationalised industry
12:52:04 <goodger> they still needed subsidies, but they needed _smaller_ subsidies; and the quality of service was better
12:53:03 <goodger> for our government, I suspect they were trying to get donations from the companies to whom they awarded the service contracts... but in your case, it sounds like you're just trying to avoid government control at any cost
12:55:24 <chris> But, getting back to the original question, that's what I have against socialism - I think it's a bad idea for the same people be in charge of meting out justice (sometimes even with deadly force) to also be in charge of collecting money to do almost anything else (e.g. education my children how to be good little citizens, build bridges for me, pay my doctor's bill, save for my retirement, etc)
12:57:03 <goodger> that's not what happens, though. the judiciary (deadly justice!!!) is separated from the executive (education etc) under the UK, US and Australian constitutions and, no doubt, most others worldwide
12:57:27 <chris> I have nothing against paying for all those good things. I'd just prefer to pay for them voluntarily, not by force.
12:57:41 <goodger> any individual can take the government (executive) to court, and the judiciary has the power to enforce rulings against the government
12:58:02 <chris> goodger: actually, the executive branch has all the guns, though.
12:58:31 <goodger> I'm pretty sure that the judiciary has guns of its own
12:58:45 <chris> goodger: check again, friend.
12:59:56 <goodger> hmm
13:00:27 <goodger> from what I can tell, the police forces exist semi-independently from the executive in the british constitution
13:01:17 <goodger> though this would be very difficult to prove since there exists no formally summarised british constitution, unlike the US constitution (they got the right idea there)
13:02:01 <chris> I'm really pretty ignorant of British governance.
13:03:55 <goodger> it's a colossal mess.
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13:05:16 <goodger> the origins of our constition go back to the thirteenth century with the Magna Carta, and continue through a tremendous amount of upheaval and a civil war (parliament vs. royalty; parliament won) and we still have constitutional monarchy
13:05:20 <andi5> happy new year :)
13:05:44 * goodger silently turns purple and then back to yellow
13:05:59 * chris pokes gncbot
13:06:21 <andi5> hehe
13:06:32 <andi5> i check out gncbot before joining ;-)
13:06:37 <andi5> happy new year, chris :)
13:06:43 <chris> ah. :)
13:06:55 <chris> andi5: thank you.
13:06:57 <goodger> ...so our constitution is pretty messed up, there's even a ceremony where the Queen opens parliament each year with the words "close the doors", which is followed by the Speaker for the House banging on the door to the House with a stick.
13:07:16 <andi5> gncbot is funny... he will tell me my mails even when i am not identified :)
13:07:16 <gncbot> andi5: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
13:07:32 <goodger> ha
13:08:04 <andi5> has anyone seen *.glade.h files before?
13:08:14 <goodger> andi5: yep, why?
13:08:31 <goodger> (I have seen them, I am not familiar with their contents)
13:08:44 <andi5> hm, they popped up the first time here... i guess i am seeing a new version of gettext
13:09:44 <goodger> glade is a GUI-based GTK design program, the headers are part of a library used to interpret the XML files it generates within runtime applications
13:09:50 <goodger> AFAIK
13:10:14 <andi5> hm... typically you will use libglade headers...
13:11:01 <andi5> e.g. http://pastebin.ca/raw/1297715
13:11:25 <goodger> it _can_ be used, occasionally, to generate C code directly implementing the UI that has been designed
13:11:46 <warlord> I think the *.glade.h files are the .h files that glade-2 or glade-3 can create if you don't tell it not to.
13:12:03 <andi5> yep, but that is not the recommended way to use glade, it may be even deprecated
13:12:14 <andi5> i have not used glade-2 or -3 here yet
13:12:15 <goodger> I think it is as of glade-3
13:12:25 <goodger> eh?
13:12:35 <goodger> glade-2 is very old indeed
13:12:50 <andi5> goodger: we still assume files sent in to be produced by glade-2
13:12:59 <andi5> we might want to change that at some point of time for trunk though
13:15:00 <andi5> hm.... i suppose i have interrupted intltool-extract and those are simply temporary files :)
13:15:24 * andi5 sighs
13:22:50 <warlord> that could be it, too. ;)
13:23:18 * warlord is glad that the hardware surgery worked and that the "new" server is being more stable than the old server.
13:23:27 <goodger> indeed
13:24:06 <andi5> warlord: what do you think about glade-3? it is available on windows, ubuntu 7.04, fedora 8 and whatever
13:24:44 <andi5> warlord: nice :)
13:25:08 <warlord> It's available for fedora-7 too.
13:25:09 <goodger> andi5: if I may interrupt, I have been using it for experimental purposes on debian for some time; and I think it's very good --- makes glade properly usable at last
13:25:20 <warlord> I have no objection to requiring glade-3 for trunk.
13:25:42 <warlord> but we should probably wait to upgrade until we're sure we're not going to want to do much more glade backports to 2.2
13:26:56 <andi5> i doubt that anyone is planning a major glade backport... do you know any?
13:27:38 <warlord> I dont know. I haven't looked at bugzilla to see if there's anything there that might have glade file changes that would also want a backport.
13:27:59 <warlord> also, fyi, once we have the new server in place I can put up a win32 build server for us. :)
13:28:01 <andi5> a backport may be easy iff both, the upgrade to glade-3 only removes default meta-data and the patch only changes a few lines.... but it may perfectly well be a lot harder
13:28:10 <warlord> (and maybe even some win32 test systems, too
13:28:11 <warlord> )
13:28:15 <andi5> warlord: yeeehaw =)
13:28:22 <warlord> :-D
13:28:45 <andi5> and please, someone should make gnucash/orbit2 fail there, please
13:28:45 <warlord> Hopefully between you and nathan we can get it set up "properly"... I've never really set up a win32 build system before so I don't know what it would require.
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13:29:10 <warlord> where *is* nathan, anyways?
13:30:21 <andi5> i am not sure, but iirc he is busy, he has told me something via private mail, but those are currently not reachable from here
13:30:58 <andi5> i just hope i did not reject him by building the setup.exe for 2.2.7 and 2.2.8 myself (not that anything changed to the better ;-))
13:31:40 <warlord> I hope not, either.. His builds seem to always be better than yours. ;)
13:31:48 <andi5> i suppose that charles will have some splendid ideas, given that he did development on that system
13:31:59 <andi5> ah, thanks :)
13:32:17 <warlord> :-D
13:32:45 <warlord> So yeah, I'm hoping we can get some stuff set up once I get the machine up in Jan.
13:32:52 <warlord> (I still need to order it)
13:32:54 <andi5> i can tell you dozens of bugs his builds contained ;-)
13:34:02 <warlord> I'm sure. ;)
13:34:14 <warlord> but it'll be good to have a stable, consistent build system.
13:34:36 <warlord> I wish we could get an OSX build system, too... But I dont think I can run an OSX VM.
13:35:30 <andi5> i would even prefer cross-compiling from linux.... see also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566001 ... that may serve as tracker bug
13:36:24 <andi5> i just downloaded the sun studio for linux, maybe that can be used to improve sun cc debugging
13:37:09 <warlord> heh.
13:37:22 <warlord> cross-compiling? Hmmm.. We can consider doing that, too.
13:37:35 <andi5> but, seeing fink or macos in action, especially with -no_x11 (or without) would be interesting)
13:37:46 <andi5> s,macos,macports,
13:37:58 <warlord> * nods *
13:50:16 <warlord> oooh.. http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Vmware_how_to
13:51:36 <andi5> oh...
13:52:10 <andi5> i think there is also a newsgroup... i guess it was something with beenaries or so
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14:28:33 <warlord> Anyways, got a NYD party..
14:28:34 <warlord> Later all.
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15:12:38 <khc> How should I enter stock options that my company grants me?
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15:16:43 <eia> hi all. I have all info entered for all 2008, but I would also like to produce statements for another date then 31/1, is that possible?
15:20:59 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
15:21:11 <warlord> khc: I would ignore them until you exercise.
15:21:28 <khc> when I exercise, I just treat it as income?
15:21:33 <warlord> eia: set the report options to whatever you want.
15:21:37 <warlord> khc: yep.
15:21:58 <eia> warlord: could you be a little more specific?
15:22:03 <eia> because I cant find those options :s
15:22:11 <khc> it sucks that this all happened a while back, and etrade wouldn't allow me to download transactions from that old
15:22:49 <warlord> eia: click the "Options" button
15:23:36 <warlord> khc: oops.
15:23:50 <eia> warlord: I dont think I see an options menu
15:24:01 <warlord> eia: NOT menu.. BUTTON
15:24:04 <warlord> In the toolbar.
15:24:08 <eia> nor button
15:24:26 <warlord> Is the report open?
15:24:31 <eia> save, close, open, edit, adapt, new, delete
15:24:33 <eia> no
15:24:41 <warlord> Well, that's why..
15:24:43 <warlord> Run the report first!
15:24:46 <eia> ok
15:25:44 <eia> thanks, that works
15:25:49 <warlord> you're welcome.
15:27:47 <warlord> okay, gotta go for good...
15:27:49 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
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23:14:42 <khc> how should I represent same day sale of options?
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23:18:09 <jeer> Starting a new account and imported .QIF files from business checking account selected all the files and I am at the screen titled
23:19:23 <jeer> Match QIF categories with GnuCash Accounts and by default Gnucash Account Name reads Unspecified and New is checked.
23:19:38 <jeer> Why does the unspecified title appears?
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