2008-12-30 GnuCash IRC logs
23:03:28 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
23:03:35 *** warlord sets mode: +o gncbot
23:03:36 <fbond> I started using GnuCash to (a) track investments and (b) budget.
23:03:50 *** warlord changes topic to " Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! || publically-logged channel || latest stable: 2.2.8"
23:04:00 <mincepie> do not try and comprehend the commodities screen, that's impossible. instead, only try to realise the truth --- there are no commodities. then you can see that it is not the commodities that you should comprehend, it is only yourself
23:04:20 <fbond> Now, I'm writing reports to make the budget system actually useful (to me) and I've been so overwhelmed with the complexities of tracking my non-investment finances.
23:04:36 <fbond> ...that I haven't had a chance to even get into investments.
23:04:46 <mincepie> tell me about it
23:05:16 <fbond> mincepie: Ah, okay, I will practice bending GBP instead.
23:05:25 <mincepie> I basically took one glance at gnucash's budgeting system and went immediately back to the Applications menu and opened my spreadsheet
23:05:35 <fbond> mincepie: Hm, yeah...
23:05:42 <fbond> Budgets need a lot of work.
23:05:45 <mincepie> of course, budgeting is practically impossible in any case
23:06:04 <fbond> I don't know how proprietary systems handle budgeting, but I'm just making reports that make sense to me to fill in the blanks.
23:06:37 <mincepie> when constructing mine, for instance, I had to guess the price of USD and crude oil, and guess how they would affect transpacific freight expenses
23:06:50 <fbond> mincepie: Um, hm, I'm doing household budgeting...
23:07:13 <fbond> It's easy to guess most of my expenses. And the ones that are hard to guess I high-ball.
23:07:17 <mincepie> and the result is a column of figures marked with dark lilac, which stands for "impossible to guess, pulled figure from air"
23:07:43 <mincepie> hm, yes, I can see how household things would be easier
23:08:12 <fbond> Well, heating oil is still hard to predict, but it's a small part of the overall budget, so...
23:08:20 <mincepie> true
23:08:34 <mincepie> I think it will stay very, very low over the coming year. just a guess.
23:09:21 <mincepie> I note that the US has returned to what I call "silly gas"...
23:09:45 <warlord> Server is back!
23:09:54 <mincepie> hurrah
23:11:28 <warlord> At least for now.
23:11:37 <mincepie> "silly gas" being gasoline so cheap that people forget, again, that they're driving monstrously inefficient vehicles
23:12:17 <fbond> Well, yep.
23:12:47 <fbond> I bought a hybrid, so low prices make me feel like I bet wrong *again*.
23:13:03 <mincepie> well, yes. you should have bought a diesel
23:13:10 <mincepie> but the hybrid was among the best decisions
23:13:34 <fbond> Depends on how you look at it.
23:13:36 <mincepie> your fuel savings compared to the SUV drivers don't evaporate because fuel becomes cheap
23:13:42 <fbond> That's true.
23:13:47 <fbond> But my ROI decreases.
23:14:39 <mincepie> and when it gets expensive again, which it will, your cost savings will explode once more
23:14:48 <mincepie> and that time, you won't have to buy the thing
23:14:48 <fbond> Ah, good times.
23:15:22 <mincepie> there is also the issue of reduced emissions
23:15:45 <fbond> Yes, I didn't only buy it for cost savings. But the cost savings afforded me a certain smugness. ;)
23:15:57 <mincepie> I care less about carbon dioxide than most environmentalists, but it is poisonous and unpleasant no matter what its effect on the environment
23:16:21 <fbond> Well, not to get to OT, but "poisonous" might be a little extreme...
23:16:59 <mincepie> if you breathe it in in large quantities, you asphyxiate
23:17:22 <fbond> Due to lack of oxygen...
23:17:34 <mincepie> well, yes
23:18:38 <mincepie> anyway, in conclusion, the less of it artifically released into the atmosphere, the better
23:19:09 <fbond> Okay, we agree there.
23:19:58 <mincepie> so you made the correct decision in buying the hybrid
23:20:16 <mincepie> tell me, do the brakes really feel "like pressing your feet into salmon paste"? :)
23:20:50 <fbond> Um, hm. They felt only slightly unnatural at first.
23:21:01 <fbond> But you get used to it quickly...
23:21:19 <mincepie> I look forward to eventually finding out what they're like
23:21:34 <fbond> Mine is a Honda Civic Hybrid, which is kind of oppositely configured from that *other* popular model (here anyway).
23:21:53 <mincepie> ah, the civic
23:21:59 <fbond> They might manufacture theirs with salmon ;)
23:22:19 <mincepie> it's a shame the european design didn't make it to north america, it was fantastic. triangles and such...
23:22:30 <fbond> What's that, now?
23:23:32 <mincepie> the european model: http://images.intellichoice.com/images/AutoShows/Big/112_05fas_honda_civic_s.jpg and http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/09/euro_honda_civic.jpg (the latter is underexposed so that one cannot see the triangular exhaust pipes)
23:24:06 <mincepie> from what I see of the north american variant, it's a lot more, ah, boring
23:24:37 <fbond> Well, we have Buicks on the road here, so it's all a matter of perspective.
23:24:49 <mincepie> ah, yes, of course
23:25:35 <fbond> Um, so, WRT GnuCash, gnc:account-get-trans-type-balance-interval is lost on me.
23:25:55 <fbond> The comment says it "Sums up any splits of a certain type affecting a set of accounts." Okay.
23:27:00 <mincepie> interesting
23:27:09 <mincepie> the name and comment appear to have nil in common
23:27:22 <warlord> I'd have to read the code to figure it out..
23:27:34 <fbond> Income Statement combines that with gnc:accountlist-get-comm-balance-interval to calculate total expenses and income.
23:27:38 <fbond> gnc:accountlist-get-comm-balance-interval I get.
23:27:46 <fbond> Not so much with gnc:account-get-trans-type-balance-interval...
23:27:56 <fbond> (Why do I suspect it'd be zero for anything I'd ever do ... ?)
23:28:39 <mincepie> I also would have to examine the code, I'm not familiar with this codebase
23:28:51 <fbond> warlord: src/report/report-system/report-utilities.scm (if you wanted ... ;)
23:29:00 <warlord> not particularly.
23:29:02 <warlord> too sleepy.
23:29:21 <mincepie> heh
23:29:25 <fbond> mincepie: You aren't in a sleepy timezone. ;)
23:29:52 <mincepie> no, I'm in a "sleeping and not due to wake for three hours" timezone
23:29:56 <warlord> it's 2330 here
23:30:03 <fbond> Oh, right, other way.
23:30:04 <mincepie> 4:30am here
23:31:23 <mincepie> I exist in north american timezones due to an interesting set of sleep problems
23:31:40 <fbond> It looks like it looks for commodity splits... my accounting is non-existent, so I can't imagine how that might affect an Income Statemet.
23:31:42 <mincepie> which I really hope will clear up before I go to university
23:31:56 <mincepie> commodity splits?
23:32:01 <fbond> mincepie: You could move here and keep your GBP. You'd be rich and maintain a normal healthy lifestyle.
23:32:26 <fbond> mincepie: Yeah, "commodity splits" is my layman way of saying "I've got no idea".
23:32:36 <mincepie> yeah, but the only tolerable country on that longitude is canada, and it's rather cold
23:32:42 <mincepie> right, I see
23:32:55 <fbond> Eh, Montreal is not too far from where I am. It's tolerable.
23:33:04 <fbond> (Nice city, too.)
23:33:16 <mincepie> indeed, I'm planning to go there in may if possible
23:33:29 <fbond> I didn't want to say "stock splits" even though that's the only way I can think of splitting anything.
23:33:35 <mincepie> however, my part of england never sees snow, so I'm used to the warm
23:33:38 <fbond> So I generalized to "commodity splits".
23:33:44 <mincepie> oh, I see.
23:34:07 <mincepie> a "split" is a method of notating a complex transaction involving >1 debit-credit pairs
23:34:16 <fbond> Oh, *that* kind of splitting.
23:34:20 <mincepie> *nod*
23:35:51 <fbond> Well, let me simplify:
23:36:12 <fbond> I am modifying the Income Statement report to use budget data instead of actual account data.
23:36:17 <fbond> Thus, I wouldn't care about splits.
23:36:32 <fbond> So I ought to be able to drop that code, anyway, wouldn't you figure?
23:37:07 <mincepie> is budget data even expressed in the same internal format as account data?
23:39:50 <warlord> you mean "gnc_numeric"? or...??
23:39:51 <fbond> Well, it can be summed.
23:40:00 <fbond> No, commodity collectors.
23:40:08 <fbond> My understanding is shallow, but is has served me well so far.
23:40:46 <mincepie> my understanding, meanwhile, is wearing a flotation aid
23:41:12 <fbond> mincepie: Ah, maybe warlord can confirm my suspicion that I don't have to care about splits. ;)
23:41:25 <mincepie> well, I suspect so
23:41:40 <fbond> Oh, well, I'll just plow ahead and be satisfied that *my* budget data looks good.
23:41:55 <fbond> Maybe when my patch arrives someone will point out the flaws.
23:41:56 <warlord> No, I think you still need to care about splits.
23:41:58 <mincepie> but a more pressing concern is whether this function will not crash the program if presented with your budget data
23:42:19 <fbond> mincepie: Hasn't so far.
23:42:31 <fbond> warlord: Okay, what am I missing?
23:42:34 <mincepie> very well
23:43:33 <warlord> I dont know.. But you can't just ignore splits.
23:43:46 <fbond> warlord: But they don't exist in a budget ...
23:44:15 <warlord> mmmmm
23:44:18 <fbond> Calculating income and expenses for a budget should be very simple, no?
23:44:23 <warlord> really, chris is the person you want to talk to.
23:44:30 <fbond> Agh. Chris doesn't exist.
23:45:39 <fbond> chris: ?
23:45:55 <mincepie> ¬_¬
23:46:37 <fbond> I'll probably just do it how it makes sense to me and be happy with that. Hopefully, chris can review the code...
23:46:48 <fbond> I just want to get my budget done, after al.
23:49:30 <warlord> yay, mail is flowing
23:49:51 <mincepie> \o/
23:50:26 <fbond> warlord: If I have functions that I want to use in two reports, where ought I put them?
23:50:42 <fbond> Is report-utilities.scm okay?
23:50:53 <warlord> sure.. or a new .scm file
23:51:14 <fbond> (Functions that sum budget account period values, similar to existing functions for actual account data...)
23:51:44 <fbond> warlord: Okay, I'll use report-utilities.scm for now.
23:51:51 <fbond> We can move it later if necessary.
23:51:56 <warlord> okay
23:54:22 <fbond> Okay, I'm out for the night. Thanks for the help & company.
23:54:30 <mincepie> night
23:56:53 <mincepie> I also am going, I've run out of cashews
23:56:55 <mincepie> good night warlord
23:57:56 <warlord> good night mincepie