2008-12-28 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:24:36 <ponto> Hi, is there a "Getting Started Tutorial" for gnucash?
10:24:49 <jsled> the tutorial and concepts guide?
10:26:00 <ponto> jsled: i've looked at it and it is not a getting started tutorial
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10:26:37 <warlord> ponto: what kind of "getting started" tutorial are you really looking for that isn't in the GnuCash Guide & Tutorial?
10:26:38 <jsled> well, then it's our attempt at such a thing. What do you expect to see, instead?
10:26:59 <ponto> at least not an obvious one.
10:27:16 <ponto> A guide that tells me how to import all my existing data into gnucash step by step.
10:28:30 <ponto> What are the recommended steps to set everything up for gnucash.
10:29:39 <jsled> <http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/appendixa.html> has some of the import stuff. But the preceeding chapters are pretty important with respect to understanding double-entry and how it works in gnucash.
10:29:48 <ponto> The "tutorial and concepts guide" seems to explain the gnucash interface. this is something a getting started tutorial would link at.
10:30:04 <jsled> Ah, maybe you're looking at the "Help", not the Tutorial and Concepts Guide?
10:30:49 <ponto> jsled: I am looking at http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/gnucash-guide.pdf
10:31:06 <ponto> jsled: the appendix A you linked semms to be quite empty.
10:31:54 <jsled> Ah, so it is.
10:32:16 <jsled> In any case, yeah, that PDF is just a slightly older version of <http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/>.
10:32:42 <jsled> While it does describe the gnucash ui, that's not exactly its focus.
10:32:53 <ponto> i've looked at hte pdf because i prefer printed documents.
10:33:43 <jsled> As for importing old data … the overall steps would be: 1/ create account tree; 2/ get basic Equity/Opening Balances setup; 3/ Import files; 3b/ match imported data to (mostly Expense) accounts during the import; 4/ goto 3.
10:35:13 <ponto> jsled: ok. thanks. I'll have a more detailed look at the guide.
10:38:42 <ponto> Basically I do not want to experience the same thing I have with other software: After using and learining it for a while I know enough to see that what i have done till now was not the right thing. Then I have to start over with the new knowledge in mind.
10:39:33 <jsled> I do not want you to experience that either. :) But … isn't that basically learning?
10:39:57 <jsled> You try stuff. You get it wrong. You figure out why. It's easier to wipe the slate clean and start over than un-do all the wrongness.
10:40:00 * jsled shrugs
10:40:10 <ponto> No. It depends how the stuff is presented.
10:40:48 <warlord> No, really, it doesn't.. You can still make mistakes regardless of how information is presented.
10:41:02 <warlord> And there's no way to present information such that 100% of the people understand 100% of it 100% of the time.
10:41:37 <ponto> In my opinion the tikz-manual is very good. It starts with three different examples of how to use it to do fancy stuff. You get a feeling on what is important and not. Then the concepts of graphics are described like in your guide, and then there is the reference for each command.
10:42:03 <jsled> ponto: url for the tikz manual?
10:43:27 <jsled> Our T&CG is setup a bit like that … basic transaction, then split transactions. I'd guess it could do more about describing some more varied types of transactions ("groceries", "loaning money to a friend", &c.)
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10:45:23 <ponto> it is just an example. http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/graphics/pgf/base/doc/generic/pgf/pgfmanual.pdf (Part I) or better the BEAMER User Guide: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/beamer/doc/beameruserguide.pdf (Chapters 3,4 and 5)
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14:03:43 <EddieOfTheRocks> All of a sudden, whenever I open an invoice, regardless of it's status, and try to close is, gnucash freezes. Anybody run into this?
14:04:05 <warlord> Running 2.2.8?
14:04:10 <EddieOfTheRocks> yep
14:04:31 <EddieOfTheRocks> happened with 2.2.7 as well
14:04:38 <EddieOfTheRocks> I just upgraded hoping it would solve it
14:05:16 <warlord> Check JIK's email to -devel and back out the change he made... But I thought that change only made it into 2.2.8, not 2.2.7.
14:07:16 <EddieOfTheRocks> warlord: hmmm, perhaps I was misinterpreting what was happening in 2.2.7
14:07:48 <EddieOfTheRocks> Now that I think of it, I am wrong, 2.2.7 was freezing up when I tried to make a new job, that's why I upgrade to 2.2.8
14:09:26 <warlord> Not heard about that one.
14:09:33 <warlord> But the 2.2.8 freeze is a memory issue.
14:15:53 <warlord> biab
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14:21:45 <EddieOfTheRocks> Yes, a downgrade back to 2.2.7 has solved the issue. Reverting to a recent backup of my data has also solved the new job problem. Must have been corrupted for some reason
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18:13:40 <hossi> where can one download accountnumbers for sweden?
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18:17:28 <warlord> what do you mean "download accountnumbers"? I can't imagine any swede is going to give you their bank account number.
18:18:29 <hossi> warlord: sorry, i mean. The numbers where you put differnt amounts om money when you do your accountancy
18:18:54 <warlord> I'm still not at all sure what you're asking.
18:19:02 <warlord> Are you asking for a Swedish Account Hierarchy?
18:19:13 <hossi> yes, i think
18:19:28 <hossi> don't really know what the english word is
18:19:43 <warlord> Um, if one exists it would show up in File -> New -> File File ... if you're running in a swedish locale.
18:20:29 <warlord> .. but i dont see one.
18:20:52 <warlord> so most likely nobody has submitted one.
18:24:08 <mincepie> hossi: what is the swedish word?
18:27:04 <hossi> mincepie: kontoplan
18:27:44 <warlord> i dont even see a swedish translation.. ??
18:27:45 <mincepie> aha
18:27:55 <mincepie> account plan
18:28:04 <warlord> oh.. sv
18:28:20 <warlord> ... but no account plans
18:28:21 <mincepie> se
18:28:34 <mincepie> sv is something else, I believe
18:28:35 <warlord> actually, it is "sv".
18:28:56 <warlord> the swedish translation is po/sv.po
18:29:03 <hossi> warlord: our topdomain is .se
18:29:15 <warlord> Yes, but that has nothing to do with the locale settings.
18:29:42 <warlord> china is .cn but their locale is zh
18:29:52 <mincepie> ah, well, that's infuriating
18:29:58 <mincepie> "Northern Sami" indeed
18:30:11 <warlord> ??
18:30:34 <mincepie> se is Northern Sami
18:30:55 <warlord> Never heard of that language before. where is it spoken?
18:31:25 <mincepie> ISO should at least have had the decency to match a language code to the country it's named after
18:31:25 <mincepie> I don't care to find out, to be honest
18:31:25 <mincepie> I fear it will open the proverbial can of worms
18:32:24 <warlord> LOL
18:32:55 <warlord> Anyways, gnucash has a translation but no accounts.. Nobody has donated a set of translated sample accounts.
18:58:09 <Guy-> mincepie: Northern Sami is the language the Lapps of Northern Finland speak, I believe
18:58:39 <mincepie> ah, sounds like suomi
18:58:44 <mincepie> thank you, sir
18:58:51 <Guy-> mincepie: and this is a classical example of not being able to match the code of a language to a country, because the speakers of the language don't have a country of their own
18:59:02 <mincepie> well, yes
18:59:14 <mincepie> surely they could have given Swedish the se, though
18:59:23 <mincepie> and given northern sami "ns" or something.
19:00:51 <Guy-> otoh, they could have been following the philosophy of giving language codes based on what the language calls itself (svensk in this case)
19:01:14 <Guy-> but if this was the case, they weren't consistent - Hungarian's code is hu, but the language calls itself magyar :)
19:01:18 <hossi> :) after an hour of clerking numbers, the program crash and I didn't save
19:01:34 <Guy-> hossi: normally it saves automatically every few minutes
19:03:46 <Guy-> mincepie: but what would you do about, say, Spanish or Portuguese or French or Italian or German which are all spoken in more than one country? :)
19:03:59 <Guy-> or Arabic, for that matter
19:04:20 <Guy-> and Latin, which isn't spoken anywhere? Esperanto? Interlingua?
19:04:26 <warlord> This is why it is generally <LangCode>[_<CountryCode>]
19:04:32 <warlord> e.g., de_CH
19:04:33 <Guy-> yes
19:04:34 <warlord> or en_US
19:05:24 <Guy-> mincepie seemed to be saying that the right way would have been for the LangCode to match the CountryCode in all cases where possible
19:05:38 <Guy-> I was just picking nits :)
19:07:49 <warlord> Well, I agree that it would be nice to have langcode == countrycode when possible.
19:12:07 <Guy-> yes, me too - I was just trying to demonstrate that it isn't possible in a lot more cases than one would naively expect
19:12:48 <Guy-> but good night for now
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19:14:45 <mincepie> well it's obviously not always possible, but where it is possible, I think it should be upheld, possibly to the cost of non-national languages
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20:50:00 <warlord> @op
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20:50:41 <mincepie> warlord: care to help me name a character?
20:52:36 <mincepie> you'll receive my eternal gratitude, and your name in the front of the book and (if applicable) the back of the film
20:57:00 <warlord> Sure.. go ahead.
20:57:51 <mincepie> ok, thanks
20:58:25 <mincepie> the character is the insecure commander of a medium-sized army that represents the entire military force of a quite substantial economic power
20:59:45 <mincepie> however, his authority as commander of that army is dependent upon the elected representatives of his country, and of a UN-like body that is coordinating a joint effort between this army and many others, some much larger, against a common enemy
21:00:30 <mincepie> so--- what is his name and title? ;)
21:00:57 <warlord> are these humans? And approximately what Earth Year is it?
21:01:37 <mincepie> they can be considered humans for the purposes of their character and personality ¬.¬
21:01:52 <mincepie> call it the Near Future, perhaps 2025?
21:03:28 <mincepie> you may consider the war, basically, "shattered united states parody, vs. the rest of humanity"
21:04:29 <mincepie> I enjoy writing this book. it is, essentially, venting with subtlety
21:07:33 <warlord> Hmm...
21:07:48 <mincepie> quite.
21:08:16 <mincepie> it is almost impossible to name characters. I had to name the main protagonist after a physicist
21:08:58 <warlord> Well, if he's the commander his militart title would be General.
21:09:26 <mincepie> very well
21:09:36 <warlord> Let's see..
21:10:06 <mincepie> heh
21:10:44 <warlord> General Gary Oldham Smith
21:11:09 * mincepie raises eyebrows
21:11:22 <mincepie> is that the result of a deliberate attempt at a british name?
21:11:31 <warlord> No.
21:11:43 <warlord> I was about to say..
21:11:57 <warlord> But nobody uses his middle name except his crazy aunt, or his mother when she's upset at him.
21:12:30 <mincepie> ah, good idea.
21:12:44 <mincepie> could we have a different forename and surname, then? ;)
21:12:58 <warlord> Um, sure.
21:13:08 * warlord goes to roll some dice.
21:13:10 <mincepie> oh, wait
21:13:14 <mincepie> Gareth will be fine
21:13:36 <mincepie> surname, surname, surname... *snaps fingers*
21:13:36 <mincepie> at this point I usually dive for the nearest book and examine the author
21:13:51 <warlord> Heh. Well, Gary came from an actor I'm watching on TV.
21:13:53 <mincepie> and the nearest book was written by a man named Smith
21:13:55 <warlord> Oldham is a friend's name.
21:13:58 <warlord> (as is Smith)
21:14:24 <mincepie> maybe my bank manager's name
21:14:29 <mincepie> hawken
21:14:34 <mincepie> yes, that works
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21:15:08 <mincepie> "The air suddenly seemed cold, the shadows were empty --- the man was gone. Alison wept long and hard as General Hawken's men poured into the chamber."
21:15:42 <mincepie> excellent
21:15:49 <mincepie> now, your name?
21:16:03 <warlord> You can get my name from the list archives. :)
21:16:11 <warlord> Or from the GnuCash "About" box ;)
21:16:23 <mincepie> that's needlessly hard work
21:16:38 <mincepie> I will have to start gnucash and cancel its interminable tips box
21:16:41 <mincepie> ah, thank you
21:16:50 <warlord> LOL
21:16:52 <warlord> You're welcome.
21:17:16 <mincepie> the about box doesn't mention "warlord"
21:17:30 <mincepie> *tut*
21:17:56 <warlord> Oh, you're right.. I used a different address in the Credits. Sorry.
21:18:02 <warlord> Mea Culpa
21:18:46 <mincepie> I have received a book named "Does Anything Eat Bankers?"
21:18:55 <warlord> LOL
21:19:03 <warlord> Apparently Market Bulls do.
21:19:08 <mincepie> its contents have convinced me that the banks of the world must be nationalised simply to punish their employees
21:20:22 <mincepie> "Q. The workings of international finance seem awfully complex; are they any of my business?"
21:20:48 <mincepie> "A. No! Admittedly, they do affect you, but so does the weather and you are not allowed to interfere with that.
21:21:02 <warlord> LOL
21:21:04 <mincepie> "Such matters are beyond the control and comprehension of ordinary people.
21:21:32 <mincepie> "They are also, apparently, beyond the control and comprehension of people whose specific job it is to control and comprehend them."
21:21:34 <warlord> Do not mess with the affairs of dragons, for they anger quickly and you are tasty.
21:22:10 <mincepie> *nod*
21:22:34 <mincepie> by god, this film will be shockingly expensive to produce
21:22:44 <mincepie> it may even require the attention of Americans
21:22:48 <mincepie> which will be appalling
21:23:00 <warlord> Hey! I resemble that remark!
21:23:08 <mincepie> nah, really
21:24:00 <mincepie> every British filmmaker who has been forced to interact with Americans because their pockets bulge with cash has reported to the British press that it is a soul-crushing experience of creative suppression
21:24:28 <warlord> Welcome to hollywood.
21:25:04 <mincepie> phrases like "is that joke appreciable to our target market?" replace phrases like "that line's *bleep* funny"
21:25:24 <warlord> LOL
21:27:15 <mincepie> see also, the opening scene of The Meaning of Life
21:27:17 <mincepie> entitled The Crimson Permanent Assurance
21:27:33 <mincepie> probably it's on youtube for your viewing pleasure
21:27:35 <warlord> Always look on the bright side...
21:28:02 <mincepie> that was Life of Brian, you crouton :P
21:28:26 <warlord> I'll bite your knees off!
21:28:45 <mincepie> and that wasn't even an accurate quotation
21:28:52 * mincepie tuts pityingly
21:29:19 <warlord> Ni!?
21:29:32 <mincepie> that is an accurate quotation
21:29:43 <warlord> LOL
21:29:45 <mincepie> but it's difficult to quote inaccurately, so your score nil points
21:30:42 <mincepie> anyway
21:30:45 <mincepie> pythonicality aside
21:31:04 <mincepie> I hope I do not have to resort to hollywood funding
21:32:24 <warlord> Would be nice if you could do it solo
21:32:33 <warlord> Or find a UK-based film co?
21:33:36 <mincepie> so one might hope
21:33:55 <mincepie> few good UK film companies exist, and I am not confident of their opinions of my script
21:34:27 <mincepie> I was planning to make it using film society equipment at university using funding from book sales, but I fear it will be too expensive and complex to be made thusly
21:35:52 <warlord> :(
21:36:09 <warlord> Well you could always try to sell it to some big-name actors and get them to help back you.
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21:36:40 <mincepie> hmm, that could work
21:36:40 <mincepie> I wonder what ian holm is up to nowadays
21:38:03 <warlord> no idea.
21:38:14 <mincepie> indeed
21:38:57 <mincepie> I also fear I might not be old enough to play the character I have semi-consciously written for myself
21:40:31 <warlord> LOL
21:41:35 <mincepie> indeed
21:42:46 <mincepie> oh well
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