2008-12-08 GnuCash IRC logs

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14:02:13 <Salted\bAron> Hi again, asked this Q 7 hours ago, can's see anyone with a respens so trying again
14:02:13 <Salted\bAron> Hi, does Finance::Quote work well with Vista 64-bit? The installation from the start menu icon seems fine. But it's still grayed out in GnuCash... Runing ActivePerl 5.8.8.824 (32-bit version)
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14:10:39 <andrewsw> bAron: I can try. do any of the command line Finance::Quote bits work?
14:11:34 <andrewsw> for example, what is output from `gnc-fq-check` (do you even get those on windows?)
14:12:36 <andrewsw> Anyone else seeing segfault in svn when file->properties on a non-dbi file?
14:13:25 <bAron> andrewsw you should take me slow here =)... shall i try the command 'gnc-fq-check' in perl and see what the response is?
14:13:58 <andrewsw> hmmm... okay, you may be in over my head.
14:14:09 <andrewsw> not in perl, but in a shell like you would use to launch gnucash
14:14:43 <bAron> okok, the shortcut you get from the install runs gnucash from a batch giv me a sec
14:15:10 * andrewsw knows nothing about f::q and windows
14:17:14 <bAron> then there is two of us here ;), but Im quite sure that I cant run that command in a batch in windows.
14:17:39 <andrewsw> then you'll have to wait for other with the correct intersection of knowledge.
14:17:40 <andrewsw> sorry
14:18:18 <bAron> can't really blame ya'
14:21:41 <andrewsw> bAron: just be patient, someone will be along. or post on -uder
14:21:43 <andrewsw> -user
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14:24:13 <bAron> O yeah, I've patiens, I trying to find a way to verify the installation of f::q in the meantime...
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14:26:51 <andrewsw> bAron: fwiw, I was looking at this:
14:26:54 <andrewsw> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_fix_a_system_error_when_getting_stock_quotes.3F
14:30:42 <bAron> hmm ok. but i think that is aimed to linux-user I am afraid. Not sure though
14:30:52 <anotheranne> I am in South Africa. I sell stuff online. My invoices are in GBP for overseas sales and in ZAR for local sales. Should / can I have two accounts receivable, one for each currency? The GBP invoices are sometime paid at time of generation when I charge the ZAR equivalent to the credit card terminal, but sometimes I have to wait typically for a bundles lot of sales from an online site who take payment direct from the customer and reimburse me only mon
14:30:53 <anotheranne> thly. Just trying to set up GnuCash to see if we can run the accounts in house ourselves, I am no accountant.
14:31:22 <andrewsw> bAron: I see you are running 32bit perl in 64bit os. does this work at all?
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14:32:11 <andrewsw> anotheranne: I believe you *need* an A/R for each currency, otherwise it will not work properly.
14:32:30 <bAron> yeah, i think so, vista64 are normaly very compartible with 32-bit apps, and the ppm aren't avalible in the 64-bitversion
14:33:04 <andrewsw> bAron: okay, that's all I got.
14:33:29 <anotheranne> So the A/R default account must then be set with two seperate subaccounts
14:33:31 <bAron> so I have no choice. If it doesn't work i am screwed, but i belive that it does ( at least I want it to ;)
14:36:13 <andrewsw> bAron: I've been away too long to know whether it works or not. but it's confirmed to work on 32bit, so I think it may just be some minor thing.
14:36:27 <andrewsw> bAron: did you *ahem* restart gnucash after isntalling?
14:37:03 <andrewsw> anotheranne: you can create as many a/r accounts as you like. not sure whether they need to be sub-accounts or not
14:37:17 <anotheranne> forgot to end with a '?' making that a statement rather than a question
14:37:18 <bAron> yeah i did, after directions I did'nt have it running while installing
14:37:56 <anotheranne> ok, thanks andrewsw, I'll experiment with that.
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14:43:34 <bAron> whell tryed a simple perlscript to try finance quote and fetch the price for Ford Motor Company. it actually worked, but had errors in the way... while trying to run the script i get "The program couldn't start because SSLEAY32DLL could not be found"
14:43:55 <bAron> i translated that errormessage, so it's probalby not the same on a english OS
14:43:59 <andrewsw> oh! I saw a comment somewhere about that
14:44:15 <bAron> let me try google
14:44:27 <andrewsw> do you have Crypt::SSLea installed?
14:45:58 <bAron> thats a cood question, as i understand it, the isntallation of f::q will install all dependencies automaticly, so i schould have it. Do you know how to verify it
14:46:43 <andrewsw> nope
14:46:53 <bAron> i just found out that that dll is associated whith open ssl. As i understand it i should be isntalled with GC, bit I'l try to get it from ppm
14:47:17 <bAron> domn my typing is good *not*
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14:48:21 <andrewsw> I hope I'm not leading you down the wrong path
14:49:00 <bAron> whats the worst that could happen =)
14:49:14 <andrewsw> andi5 shows up and calls me an idiot..
14:50:31 <andrewsw> http://www.candland.net/blog/2008/02/23/GettingFinanceQuoteInstalledAndWorkingOnWindowsForGnuCash.aspx
14:50:34 <andrewsw> might help
14:50:58 <vbatts> jsled: i understand that, but for those users of a distribution, it needn't be a flame war for the sake of a single essentail application
14:51:14 <jsled> which flame war?
14:51:14 <bAron> yeah thats a good one, i got the perl script from that site, the one i tried a few minutes ago
14:51:21 <vbatts> ;)
14:51:36 <bAron> o sorry wrong site, this one whas new for me
14:52:00 <warlord> vbatts: what, you mean about how Slackware Sucks Hairy Monkey Balls? That flamewar/
14:52:00 <warlord> ?
14:52:07 <vbatts> re: a distro current in 2008
14:52:09 <andrewsw> lol
14:52:11 <jsled> vbatts: please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but you're advocating a substantial modification of gnucash because slack is basically unable to package essential libs?
14:52:13 <vbatts> warlord: that one ;)
14:52:20 <warlord> ==jsled
14:52:49 <jsled> Even if gnucash were appropriately modular to allow another front-end, I'm not sure what the point would be.
14:52:58 <warlord> jsled: if vbatts is willing to fund the 5-ish man years of effort I think it would take, I'd be willing to work on it.
14:53:02 <jsled> For those *features* we get from gnome, they'd need to be provided by some other library.
14:53:14 <jsled> And presumably slack would have problems packaging those libraries, too.
14:53:47 <jsled> s/we/GnuCash/.
14:55:01 <jsled> I don't mean it as a flame war, really. It's just … practicality. There's a reason app developers decide to use a desktop environment like gnome or KDE: so they don't all have to re-write infrastructure stuff.
14:55:09 <jsled> Instead, we build common functionality into libraries.
14:55:20 <warlord> Widgets, Printing, File Lookup, etc.
14:55:46 <jsled> The idea is that all the individual apps become simpler, and distros only need to ship one set of common libsm yeah.
14:55:47 <vbatts> not so much that the distro is unable to package, but that its an incredibly confiusing dependency chain to satisfy gnucash
14:55:59 <vbatts> yeah
14:56:07 <jsled> gnucash is no more complex than any other app at its level in the stack.
14:56:15 <jsled> By that I mean a "leaf-node" desktop application.
14:56:20 <warlord> gnumeric
14:56:20 <vbatts> right
14:56:28 <jsled> (rather than, say, a system library or utility or something)
14:56:52 <warlord> 'cat'
14:56:54 <warlord> :)
14:56:59 <vbatts> ;)
14:57:15 <jsled> hmm.
14:57:47 <jsled> (nm)
14:58:53 <warlord> The point, vbatts, is that there's a lot of infrastructure that Gtk/GNOME provides that GnuCash uses, and we'd have to replace all that if we changed to Qt/KDE.. And doing ALL that work just because ONE distribution can't package Gtk/GNOME is the tail wagging the dog.
15:00:12 <bAron> Installed openSSL and copied the files to PERL\bin folder
15:00:19 <vbatts> well soley gtk would be fine as well, its decending into libgsf and libgnomeui that gets fun, but i understand the position
15:00:27 <bAron> no the f::q work without errors
15:00:49 <andrewsw> bAron: does it work in gnucash then?
15:01:00 <jsled> thankfully the gnome folks have been moving libgnome into better places (gtk, mostly, it seems)
15:01:05 <bAron> damn... no it didn't, still grayed out
15:02:47 <bAron> tried a script wich uses ' fetch('nyse', 'SYMBOL') ' and exchanged the symbol for 'F' wich is Ford in the NYSE. And it returned the accuret price
15:02:58 <vbatts> jsled: thats good, and they may be most of my lament, is that for a system with out the gnome infrastructure, its a beast. which is not at gnucash's fault.
15:03:03 <bAron> so it feels like f::q is OK now
15:06:51 <vbatts> but i've got to get back to studying for an international economics final :|
15:06:59 <vbatts> cheers
15:07:53 <jsled> vbatts: cheers. Sorry if I came across flamey; I'll try to be a bit reserved in the future.
15:10:11 <vbatts> understood, and truthfully i have less to stand on in urging such a motivation, being only a 'power' user and not a developer that would be able/willing to fuel such a change :/
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15:17:58 <fernando> hello
15:18:39 <fernando> I want to write a program using the GnuCash API, is there any guide or example I can take a look at?
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15:23:16 <fernando> is this channel active?
15:23:46 <warlord> fernando: the docs are online.
15:23:49 <andrewsw> fernando: define active
15:23:56 <warlord> But there isn't a good example to point you to.
15:24:24 <fernando> you mean the doxygen docs ?
15:25:57 <warlord> yes
15:25:57 <anotheranne> if I want to start over again it looks like I must delete a named gzip archive, .log, .lck, .xac files. There is no command to delete the whole thing withing Gnucash. Is that the way to go?
15:26:01 <fernando> actually, what I need to do is to create a bunch of accounts programatically. any other idea how to do this?
15:26:22 <jsled> fernando: look at the example account hierarchies.
15:26:34 <warlord> anotheranne: you only need to delete you data file. You can choose to delete the backups and logs as well if you wish. Or just File -> New -> New File
15:27:14 <jsled> if you can write a script to write files like that, then you can create that tree of accounts within gnucash … either for a new or existing file.
15:27:23 <anotheranne> the latter will leave the existing data file then?
15:27:43 <jsled> if you need to create accounts as a function of the contents of an existing datafile … well … that'd be harder
15:29:11 <fernando> I normally create a bunch of accounts each month, to keep expenses separated
15:29:40 <warlord> anotheranne: yes, unless you chose to overwrite it with the new one.
15:29:54 <jsled> fernando: sounds like overkill.
15:30:00 <fernando> are you refering to example files like test.xac, currency_tree_xml.xac, etc?
15:30:24 <jsled> fernando: more like /usr/share/gnucash/accounts/C/acctchrt_common.gnucash-xea
15:30:45 <jsled> fernando: why not just use the reporting to get per-month views of the data?
15:32:02 <fernando> because I wanted to have aggregations by year, month and type of expense
15:32:12 <fernando> my accounts follow that hierarchy
15:32:33 <jsled> fernando: why not just use the reporting to get those views of the data?
15:33:09 <fernando> I remember I tried that when I originally set the system up, like 7 years ago, but for some reason didn't like it, so decided to go with separate accounts
15:33:44 <fernando> maybe it was an issue in the version I was using then, I can't remember
15:33:47 <andrewsw> 84 complete account trees?
15:35:10 <fernando> oh, no, I have 9 top level accounts (one per year), each of them having a sub account per month, each of them having a subaccount per category of expense (housing, groceries, etc.)
15:36:17 <anotheranne> warlord, then I just write over it with the same name, get it. What is a 'CD' - there is a 'CD and Money Market' default account ?
15:36:35 <jsled> anotheranne: Certificate of Deposit
15:36:58 <anotheranne> thks
15:37:27 <anotheranne> we can untick that then!
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15:44:54 <fernando> ok, I found acctchrt_common.gnucash-xea but I'm not clear how I would use something like that. is the idea that I generate the file and the import it in an existing document?
15:45:54 <jsled> if you generate the file, and plop it in that dir, then it'd show up when you do File > New Account Hierarchy…, yeah.
15:47:25 <andrewsw> huh. I'm getting segfaults all over the place. time to start from scratch
15:48:00 <fernando> oh, I see. cool. thanks
15:48:51 <anotheranne> the tutorial & concepts guide won't print out. is that by design or have I got some printer setting wrong? Only the heading of each page prints.
15:49:12 <jsled> anotheranne: print from where?
15:49:36 <anotheranne> within gnu cash from the help menu
15:49:44 <fernando> is there any way gnucash will pick up those files from a location under my $HOME ?
15:49:56 <jsled> no
15:50:13 <jsled> I want to say yes, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
15:50:22 <fernando> ok
15:54:19 <fernando> when building this account file, should I reproduce all the existing hierarchy, or is it enough to provide the GUID to the existing parent account?
15:54:56 <jsled> Oh, hmm. That's a good question.
15:55:43 <jsled> I think you're fine with random guids, so long as the account *names* are the same.
15:55:46 <fernando> I guess I will try
15:56:04 <jsled> I might be wrong, but I want ot say that it will randomize the account guids when it reads the file nayways, then does the merge by account name.
15:56:12 <jsled> But it's been a couple of years since I looked at that code.
15:56:37 <fernando> well, I can create new guids with uuidgen, and it seems the id element has an attribute that is set to "new"
15:57:12 <jsled> Ah
15:58:09 <fernando> I would rather do this by writing C code, though. I looked at the header files, and it seems there is enough API exposed, but I am not sure how to use it
16:03:57 <warlord> You would need to manually link the libs
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16:29:35 <fernando> ok, it kind of worked. I included the GUID to the existint parent account, but it was ignored and all accounts were created at the top level. I'm going to try now adding the existing hierarchy by name, and see if that solves the problem.
16:31:24 <andrewsw> the code i'm looking at has (set! (qof-query-run query)) and then (map )'s a function across the list. this function gets, for each split: xaccSplitGetAmount and xaccSplitGetAccount.
16:32:08 <andrewsw> and then does xaccAccountGetCommodity on the result. is that really necessary?
16:32:20 <andrewsw> is not the commodity the same for all splits in the account?
16:34:12 <andrewsw> oh! nm. the query is on a list of accounts.
16:35:48 <fernando> IT WORKED!!! sorry to shout, I'm exited :-)
16:36:11 <fernando> all I need now is a Ruby script to generate this file. thanks everybody!
16:39:51 <bAron> have to headbutt the pillow, I'll try my luck to solve my f::q problem tomorrow
16:39:52 <bAron> nn
16:40:10 <andrewsw> cya bAron, good luck
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16:55:28 <anotheranne> When printing an invoice, I see no way of making the subtotal inclusive of the tax for each item. Usually here (ZAR) the tax is just quoted at the end of the invoice as "14% VAT included ZAR ...." but individual items are not shown in the total column at a value exclusive of VAT. Is it not possible to do it that way? Also, is there anyway of editing the very first wording which is 'Invoice 00001" to read "Tax Invoice 00001" which is a legal requirem
16:55:29 <anotheranne> ent here.
16:57:46 <cortana> the tax invoice question may be an faq, try google
16:58:06 <cortana> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_change_.22Invoice.22_to_.22Tax_Invoice.22_as_required_in_Australia.3F
16:58:39 <andrewsw> sheesh, what an easy fix that would be...
16:58:42 <cortana> as for your VAT... i believe we enter our items as splits, the ex-vat price to the expense account and the difference to the 'VAT reclaimable'
16:58:49 <anotheranne> ok. I saw instructions on how to set the number for the first invoice, so maybe the "Tax Invoice" can be set the same way.
16:59:05 <cortana> that would be nice :)
16:59:24 <cortana> so for a bill of 100 inclusive, you would work the VAT out to be 12.18 ? i think
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17:00:34 <cortana> (100 / 1.14 * 0.14)
17:01:09 <cortana> that seems to work
17:01:16 <andrewsw> maybe that should just be a string report option...
17:01:41 <anotheranne> twunder, yes, that's right, we quote generally VAT inclusive, particularly in retail situations
17:03:02 <cortana> you might be able to enter that calculation directly into the register and have gnucash perform it :)
17:03:16 <anotheranne> cortana, thanks, will save that link.
17:03:55 <cortana> let me know if the VAT calculation works too
17:05:00 <anotheranne> i'm sure I will be back. let me get a little more setup first. I will have a good look at the FAQ for helpful tips.
17:05:48 <cortana> good luck :)
17:06:13 <anotheranne> i need an accounting degree :(
17:08:19 <anotheranne> now it is tomorrow here so off to sleep. bye
17:08:23 <cortana> nn :)
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17:08:27 <benjamin> night
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17:34:19 <andrewsw> why do we have three naming conventions for qof queries?
17:35:33 <andrewsw> cortana: what would you call that field for the invoice reference?
17:36:14 <cortana> invoice title?
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17:36:34 <nebajoth> everything posts to my accounts receivable as $0 :/
17:36:37 <andrewsw> yeah. i'm not real fond of that, but what else could it be
17:36:38 <andi5> convention contention?
17:36:44 <andrewsw> hi andi5
17:36:48 <andi5> hi and
17:36:50 <andi5> andrewsw:
17:36:53 <andi5> ah well
17:37:05 <nebajoth> does anyone know why that would be? :(
17:37:18 <andrewsw> andi5: trying to decipher qof-query* gnc:query* and xaccQuery*...
17:37:26 <andrewsw> nebajoth: mixed currencies?
17:37:28 <nebajoth> I've made invoices, jobs, and customers correctly, I think
17:37:30 <nebajoth> maybe
17:37:31 <jsled> andrewsw: the shifting sands of time?
17:37:33 <nebajoth> I'm trying to work in CAD
17:37:43 <andrewsw> jsled: yeah. hi jsled
17:37:46 <andrewsw> !
17:37:51 <andi5> gnc:query* sounds like scheme-exported functions
17:38:01 <andi5> xaccQuery like the old names before the extraction of libqof
17:38:11 <andrewsw> yep, all three are available in scheme
17:38:14 <jsled> nebajoth: the business features are single-currency only. you need parallel trees.
17:38:31 <nebajoth> aha
17:38:36 <nebajoth> maybe I should just pretend its in USD
17:38:48 <nebajoth> or
17:38:53 <nebajoth> how do I set it so it works exclusively in CAD?
17:38:55 <andrewsw> nebajoth: don't devalue your work lke that...
17:38:58 <nebajoth> haha
17:38:59 <jsled> heh
17:39:00 <andi5> ah, ok, maybe gnc:query functions are not even exported ones... well *shutting up again*
17:39:20 <andrewsw> andi5: I'm just lamenting trying to untangle what's happening...
17:39:20 <andi5> (if only make distcheck would remove gtk icon caches again ...)
17:40:27 <nebajoth> I don't think it IS mixed currencies
17:40:32 <nebajoth> they all seem to be in CAD
17:41:06 <nebajoth> that's super weird
17:41:23 <andi5> andrewsw: it seems as if there are not a lot gnc:query functions left, only those non-voids-only!
17:42:25 <andrewsw> I wouldn't know. I'm looking at *all three* conventions in *one* function just scratchin' my head.
17:42:47 <nebajoth> what's a reason other than mixed currencies for everything posting to my A/R as $0?
17:42:48 <andi5> i suppose xaccQuery functions are either alternative names for qof_query_* or they handle engine data
17:43:35 <andi5> anyone thinking that evdev sucks?
17:44:52 <andrewsw> evdev?
17:45:25 <andi5> ok... seems like you have not had problems with it (yet)
17:46:11 * andrewsw googles
17:46:35 <andrewsw> oh!
17:46:40 <andrewsw> which one, kernel or xorg?
17:47:21 <andi5> does not matter to me ;-) ... i suppose the xorg driver hal-enabled, something along that line
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18:17:44 <nebajoth> goddamnit
18:17:47 <nebajoth> this keeps crashing
18:17:49 <nebajoth> every two damned seconds
18:20:53 <warlord> Take away its driver's license?
18:28:44 <nebajoth> I should
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20:39:59 <Jason> Hello. I am running Vista Ultimate (x64) and the other day I was working in GNUcash when the power went out. Since this happened, I have not been able to open gnuCash. Everytime I click the shortcut I have a gnucash-bin.exe *32 running the proccesses but the application never even starts. I have uninstalled, manually deleted everything related to gnucash and reinstalled... still the same problem. Since that, when I try and uninstall again
20:41:17 <jsled> Jason: it might be a problem with your datafile, instead.
20:41:27 <jsled> Try starting gnucash from a command-line with the '--nofile' option.
20:41:47 <Jason> Ok, will try that now.
20:45:06 <Jason> That is starting the gnucash.bat --nofile correct?
20:45:34 <Jason> in the bin directory?
20:46:03 <jsled> I've never used the windows version, but that sounds about right
20:46:57 <Jason> The last line of the bat file when run with that, shows 'start gnucash-bin --nofile' so I think it must be.
20:47:42 <Jason> Unfortunatly, it looks like I am having the same results when running it with the --nofile option.
20:49:48 <jsled> is there any console output when you start it that way?
20:53:28 <Jason> There doesn't look to be any output... just the commands being run from the bat file
20:56:25 <warlord> there is no console by default.. the win32 build turns it off.
20:56:34 <warlord> Is there anything in gnucash.trace?
20:57:13 <warlord> But Jason I dont understand the result you get. "I have a gnucash-bin.exe #32 running ... but the application never even starts"? What does that mean?
20:57:26 <Jason> the process is running if i look in task manager
20:57:43 <Jason> but nothing is ever shown on my screen.
20:58:09 <warlord> I wonder if gconf is screwed up?
20:59:24 <Jason> Do you happen to know where gnucash.trace is?
20:59:54 <warlord> not offhand. check the win32 page on the wiki.
21:03:35 <Jason> WARN <qof.engine> [guid_init()] only got 2013 bytes.
21:03:43 <warlord> that's ignorable.
21:04:41 <Jason> That is the onlything in these gnucash.trace files.
21:06:06 <Jason> ok
21:06:25 <Jason> I deleted the file "ior" in the gonfd-jason and now gnucash is opening.
21:09:31 <Jason> Thank you for your assitance.
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21:18:15 <warlord> great!
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