2008-11-23 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:56:31 <Dave_is_sexy> Hi all. I'm trying to tell Gnucash that I bought a car with cash, and want it noted as equity. At the moment the money is shown as an equity decrease. Could anyone help me fix this?
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08:04:35 <benjamin> well, it's actually an asset. problem solved
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09:00:58 <Dave_is_sexy> But surely if you have equity in a house, then a car is a similar thing. Expensive, sellable...
09:02:39 <Dave_is_sexy> I'd rather have it in equity so that my assets remain as 'available money'
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09:27:27 <benjamin> well, you can't debit to an equity account and have it increase in value
09:27:55 <benjamin> and you can't call an asset an equity because it's a fixed asset, the system doesn't work that way
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09:40:33 <warlord> Dave_is_sexy: it's an Asset, not Equity.
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09:41:00 <Dave_is_sexy> Aw
09:41:16 <benjamin> hrm
09:41:22 <benjamin> why do you believe warlord, but not me?
09:41:26 <warlord> Remember than Equity == Asset - Liability.. So when you increase your Assets, Equity increases too.
09:41:35 <Dave_is_sexy> I only just got back
09:41:46 <benjamin> ah, then I was right
09:42:00 <benjamin> "equity" is US english for "capital"
09:42:13 <benjamin> that clears up a surprisingly large amount of confusion
09:42:47 <Dave_is_sexy> so a house is equity
09:42:54 <Dave_is_sexy> and a car is an asset
09:43:03 <benjamin> no, a house is an asset also
09:43:07 <Dave_is_sexy> and a mortgage is a liability
09:43:16 <Dave_is_sexy> how do i get equity then?
09:43:20 <benjamin> your mortgage is a liability, yes
09:43:27 <benjamin> equity is the difference between them
09:43:50 <Dave_is_sexy> then what sort of things are equity accounts
09:44:40 <benjamin> income
09:44:49 <Dave_is_sexy> atm i have 'opening balances' and 'loan interest' as eqity accounts
09:44:57 <benjamin> ...I think
09:45:08 <Dave_is_sexy> no, income goes in the income section
09:45:44 <benjamin> yes, but all accounts are classifiable under asset, liability or "equity", and income goes in equity
09:45:50 <benjamin> er...
09:45:51 <Dave_is_sexy> ah
09:45:52 <benjamin> profit is a good one
09:46:14 <benjamin> it's really very much business-oriented
09:46:42 <benjamin> I'm not sure a natural person would have any equity accounts beyond opening balances
09:46:50 <Dave_is_sexy> so, to have 'positive equity' in an equity account, that money has to have existed before you started keeping track, cos otherwise it'd be an asset..
09:46:51 <cortana> loan interest is equity?
09:47:01 <benjamin> yes, exactly
09:47:09 <cortana> i thought it was an expense
09:47:15 <Dave_is_sexy> loan interest is negative equity
09:47:31 <cortana> oh i was talking in terms of what you actually put into gnucash, nm :)
09:48:29 <Dave_is_sexy> it's not an expense cos I'm not actually paying it off. It mounts up over at loan-company central then gets paid off by a special tax via HMRC. Very complicated here in England
09:48:51 <benjamin> oh, you're english too
09:48:58 <Dave_is_sexy> yep
09:48:58 <cortana> madness
09:49:02 <benjamin> that simplifies things, I know sod-all about the US
09:49:03 <Dave_is_sexy> lol
09:49:33 <Dave_is_sexy> well i gotta dash guys but cheers for the tips
09:49:52 <benjamin> that's ok
09:50:21 <benjamin> btw, loan interest _is_ an expense
09:50:35 <benjamin> loan repayments are not
09:51:10 <benjamin> it's not tax-deductible, but for accounting purposes, it is an expense, at least according to this financial accounting textbook
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10:23:10 <M_Assis> I have a problem running GNUCASH 2.2.7 at windows Vista
10:23:24 <M_Assis> when I try to run the program I receive the following error
10:24:07 <warlord> Sorry, I wandered off. Dave_is_sexy: Equity Accounts are only used to pinpoint "Equity" at points in time. In particular they are only used for Opening Balances, and periodic "Closing the Books".
10:24:30 <warlord> Income and Expense are ways to change Equity.. They affect your Instaneous Equity, which is reported on the Balance Sheet.
10:24:30 <M_Assis> Exception Processing Message 0xc0000013 Parameters 0x75AA92A0 0x00000004 0x75AA92A0 0x75AA92A0
10:25:43 <M_Assis> I was using the Version 2.1 without problem, this happens after I install the new version, Can does someone know what´s the problem?
10:26:04 <warlord> M_Assis: The only thing I can think of is that a different developer did the packaging.
10:27:55 <M_Assis> is this a problem at the version or the installer?
10:31:18 <warlord> M_Assis: I'm afraid I have no idea. I don't do Windows
10:31:24 <warlord> Sorry
10:33:20 <M_Assis> i just installed the version 2.2.6 and its working...
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10:35:13 <warlord> ok
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10:47:52 <M_Assis> I need another help, How to add I report, I changed somereport and want to add to the program.
10:54:30 <warlord> You need to give it a new name, new GUID, and then get the file loaded at runtime, either via $HOME/.gnucash/config.user or via modifying standard-reports.scm --- but the latter will get overwritten anytime you upgrade.
10:56:09 <M_Assis> $HOME is my user directory or program directory
10:57:27 <warlord> User
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13:06:39 <Guest_641> is there any way to recieve an amount of money without transferring it from another account? when i try to make a bank account it wont let me put money in withut taking it from the opening balence account
13:08:47 <benjamin> no, that's how double-entry book-keeping works
13:09:34 <cortana> Guest_641: trust the program, that's now it is supposed to work :)
13:10:33 <Guest_641> i dont understand how this works
13:10:59 <benjamin> I suggest, then, that you read up on elementary double-entry book-keeping
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13:11:22 <warlord> Guest_641: Money always has to come from somewhere. It doesn't just materialize.
13:11:29 <warlord> so... where did the money come from?
13:11:54 <Guest_641> the money is from a grant
13:12:08 <benjamin> create an Income -> Grant account and credit that, then
13:12:36 <warlord> what benjamin said.
13:12:39 <warlord> It's still Income.
13:13:14 <cortana> Guest_641: check out http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/basics-entry1.html#basics-dbentry2 :)
13:13:33 <Guest_641> ok thanks... thats what i didnt understand(what type of account it should be)...thanks for the link too
13:14:12 <cortana> Guest_641: you can problaby find a copy in the help menu under 'tutorial and concepts'
13:15:13 <cortana> http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/basics-accounting1.html starts by explaining the different types of accounts, etc.
13:15:43 <Guest_641> yeah that would probably be helpful ...didnt even see that there
13:16:14 <cortana> ;)
13:16:57 <Guest_641> thanks this is exactly what i was looking for:-d
13:26:03 <Guest_641> so when i credit the income account where do i take/put the money
13:26:27 <warlord> Well, where did you deposit the grant money?
13:27:46 <benjamin> presumably you would debit your bank account
13:28:22 <Guest_641> i made an income account and called it grant money, and then i put the money into the opening ballance
13:28:46 <cortana> that's not quite how it works
13:29:13 <cortana> you probably want an asset account of some kind to represent the money that you have recieved now that you own it
13:29:45 <benjamin> if the money is in the account already, you need an assets -> bank account and an opening balance account.... debit the bank and credit the opening balance
13:32:12 <cortana> you usually only take money out of an income account, and put it in an asset account
13:32:44 <Guest_641> so for every income account you need an asset account to offset it?
13:32:44 <benjamin> unless this happened before the current period
13:32:59 <benjamin> no, you can have just the one bank account and many income accounts
13:33:31 <Guest_641> yes but you need one to offset all of the income?
13:33:41 <benjamin> everything has to balance out, yes
13:33:45 <benjamin> all income has to go somewhere
13:33:57 <benjamin> all bank deposits have to come from somewhere
13:33:57 <Guest_641> ok now i understand it...for real this time
13:35:17 <cortana> so when i get paid by my employer i transfer from companyname (income type) to current account ('bank account' type, really the same as asset type)
13:35:48 <cortana> the equity account just exists to be a place for you to transfer the opening balances of your accounts from -- that is, money that you had before you started keeping accounts :)
13:36:12 <benjamin> presuming you have some
13:36:15 <cortana> yes :)
13:36:49 <benjamin> my business, for instance, just started, so our opening balances account is empty
13:36:52 <cortana> so usually there will be a transfer from opening balances (equity) to your bank account to represent the money that was in there when you started using gnucash. the same goes for the cash in your wallet
13:37:32 <cortana> you would also transfer from openeing balances (equity) to take account of hte opening balances of any loans you have (e.g., mortgage, credit card, student loan)
13:37:56 <cortana> but yes if you started using gnucash when you didn't have any money and didn't owe any money then you would not need an equity account for opening balances
13:38:08 <cortana> hope that is clear enough & hasn't merely spread the confusion :)
13:39:28 <Guest_641> yeah. this helped out alot. i definately understand this now Thank you so much:-d
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13:43:41 <Guest_641> one more thing... i made an income (grant) account, and and an asset account. when i transfer money from the income to the asset account everything is fine, but when i go to transaction report it says i have double the money that i reall have. it counts it from the income and from the asset as haveing the sam amount of money.
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13:44:11 <cortana> hm, can you post a screenshot somewhere?
13:45:28 <Guest_641> i dont no how so no :-(
13:46:13 <cortana> are you using GNOME, or windows, or... ?
13:46:19 <Guest_641> Transaction Report
13:46:19 <Guest_641> From 01/01/2008 To 12/31/2008
13:46:19 <Guest_641> Date Num Description Memo/Notes Amount
13:46:19 <Guest_641> Grant asset
13:46:19 <Guest_641> November 2008
13:46:20 <Guest_641> 11/23/2008 $15,000.00
13:46:22 <Guest_641> Total For November 2008 $15,000.00
13:46:24 <Guest_641> Total For Grant asset $15,000.00
13:46:26 <Guest_641> Grant/income
13:46:28 <Guest_641> November 2008
13:46:30 <Guest_641> 11/23/2008 $15,000.00
13:46:32 <Guest_641> Total For November 2008 $15,000.00
13:46:34 <Guest_641> Total For Grant/income $15,000.00
13:46:36 <Guest_641> Grand Total $30,000.00
13:46:38 <Guest_641> thats what the transaction report looks like
13:46:42 <cortana> hm
13:46:51 <cortana> i don't use this report myself, let me fiddle around
13:46:58 <cortana> is it possible you just entered the transaction twice?
13:48:28 <Guest_641> idk when i go into the ledger it says there is a transaction for each... but i only put it in once...(i made a transaction from the income to the asset)
13:49:36 <Guest_641> the income account says i have an income of xxx dollars... and the asset says i have an increase of xxx dollars
13:52:18 <cortana> hm ok
13:52:23 <cortana> i just made a test file and i get the same result
13:52:41 <cortana> the grand total is just the sum of the income accounts and the asset accounts
13:52:53 <Guest_641> ...am i maybe doing something wrong?
13:52:58 <cortana> i'm not sure what use it is, but i don't think you are doing anythign wrong :)
13:53:24 <cortana> if you want to know how much money you have at a given time, try reports -> assets & liabilities -> balance sheet
13:53:31 <Guest_641> ok ...ill just ignore that report then... everything except that is working fine:-d
13:53:46 <cortana> or... reports -> income & expenses -> income statement
13:54:03 <Guest_641> ok ill try that one
13:54:11 <cortana> i agree the transaction report grand total seems a bit odd... perhaps a developer can comment if/when they read this :)
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13:54:36 <cortana> yeah try the income statementt :)
13:54:42 <Guest_641> ok...thanks for the help again
13:54:55 <benjamin> sounds about right
13:56:40 <cortana> yeah, i think the grand total in the transaction report is just that; the sum of hte value of the transactions
13:56:57 <cortana> it's not a useful figure as far as i can see, for that you want balance sheet
13:57:10 <cortana> and to find out where you money has come from and has gone, you want income statement
13:58:22 <Guest_641> ok it does seem like a rather useless number ill look into the other suggested reports, they're what i was looking for in the first plae
13:58:40 <cortana> right, i'm off, good luck!
13:58:46 <benjamin> byee
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13:59:09 <Guest_641> cya...im off also
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16:16:49 * user newsfeed doesnt display news in firefox 304 ubuntu
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16:18:46 <benjamin_> user: you are aware this is the gnu cash channel, yes?
16:18:51 *** benjamin_ is now known as benjamin
16:20:10 <user> yes, http://www.gnucash.org/atom.php
16:25:23 <benjamin> works fine for me, except that all the contents are marked as read by default for some reason
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