2008-11-08 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:24:53 <arhart> Is there a way to show a running total by date (not balance) of an account, similar to how the register shows a running balance by date? (sorry if I'm using the wrong terms)
00:25:49 <AltiusBimm> how is that different from the default functionality?
00:26:57 <arhart> I want to see the "total" (balance + all sub-account balances) -- does that answer the question?
00:28:02 <AltiusBimm> oh
00:32:21 <AltiusBimm> that's different from what I thought you meant, but it still sounds exactly like the default functionality, simply a different part of it :)
00:35:03 <arhart> AltiusBimm: perhaps it is... which part do you have in mind?
00:36:41 <AltiusBimm> the fact that the Total column already contains the sum of the balance of an account plus all subaccounts
00:36:48 <AltiusBimm> at least as long as the account is a placeholder
00:37:30 <AltiusBimm> no, as far as I can tell it also behaves the way you've described even when the account is not a place holder
00:38:12 <arhart> is there a way to see it on various dates?
00:38:18 <AltiusBimm> ohhh
00:38:29 <AltiusBimm> you want to be able to view what that would look like in the past?
00:38:36 <arhart> for an individual account balance I can look at the register, and every entry shows the date & the new balance
00:38:42 <arhart> right
00:39:47 <AltiusBimm> you could delete all transactions after the desired date
00:39:49 <arhart> I can change the preferences->Accounting Period->End date, then go back to the accounts page, but constantly switching between pages is cumbersome -- the account register for balances is straight-forward
00:40:21 <AltiusBimm> hmm
00:40:52 <AltiusBimm> I'm less familiar with GnuCash's feature set than some of the users on this chat, but I'm trying to help reason through what you're looking for :)
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09:57:04 <deltas4> hey
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11:53:14 <aggieryan> Is there a way to split a transaction into accounts of the same type?
11:53:49 <aggieryan> For instance, if I go to the grocery store and buy bananas and milk, I would like to show the detailed costs of each item.
11:54:42 <aggieryan> My actual reason for this is more complex, but it's helpful with more complex bills to be able to split it down into details. It looks as if GnuCash is limited to splitting transactions among disparate account types.
11:57:13 <andi5> i am not sure, but it may be possible to create multiple splits for one account... but if you really intend to track them, then simply create subaccounts
11:58:23 <aggieryan> It still does not seem possible to me. Let's say I create the account Expenses:Groceries:Bananas and then spent a total of $50 at the store. How do I get the cost of the bananas into the bananas account?
11:58:36 <aggieryan> It only let's me use different account types.
11:59:43 <aggieryan> If I try to break down the $50 under Expenses:Groceries under the transaction "Wal-Mart Groceries", it will add the expense of the bananas to my purchase instead of breaking it down.
12:00:03 <andi5> what is "it"? .. and i think we use the term "account types" for different things... an account type in gnucash is simply "asset, liability, expense, income and so on"
12:00:17 <aggieryan> Yes, that's correct.
12:00:33 <jsled> Yes, you can have multiple Expenses splits that are matched by a single Asset split.
12:00:53 <jsled> It's not hierarchial, hoever.
12:00:54 <jsled> however.
12:01:05 <aggieryan> Okay, although my situation is more complex, I think the bananas/milk situation is representative.
12:01:08 <andi5> aggieryan: have you tried to "split" the transaction, showing you each split in one line?
12:01:16 <jsled> You can't have "Expenses:Groceries", which is composed of "Expenses:Groceries:Banannas" and "Expenses:Groceries:Milk"
12:01:37 <aggieryan> andi5: I think so
12:01:40 <aggieryan> Here is what I did:
12:01:44 <jsled> Just forgoe the Expenses:Groceries
12:02:04 <jsled> (Or leave it for the remaining items that are not Banannas or Milk)
12:02:19 <deltas4> how do I divide expenses by recipees... for example in Quicken when I input transactions there's a field for recipee
12:02:28 <andi5> jsled: is there anything besides bananas and milk?
12:02:41 <jsled> andi5: coffee. But that's about it. :)
12:02:45 <andi5> ah, i see
12:02:56 <aggieryan> say I spent $10 at Wal-Mart. I tried to split it into $5 for bananas and $5 for milk. But that won't work. how would I do that?
12:02:57 <jsled> deltas4: "recipees" = "recipients"?
12:03:08 <jsled> aggieryan: What do you mean it "won't work"?
12:03:14 <jsled> I do this all the time, so I know it does. :)
12:03:14 <deltas4> yeah sorry
12:03:35 <aggieryan> jsled: I am probably doing it in a broken way. Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong.
12:03:48 <jsled> aggieryan: in the register … in the View menu … what mode is it in? Basic Ledger? Auto-Split?
12:03:57 <andi5> aggieryan: credit $10 assets:..., debit $5 exp:groc:bananas, debit $5 exp:groc:milk
12:03:58 <deltas4> recipient as the store name
12:04:13 <jsled> deltas4: no, there's no equivalent. You can create an Expense account per recipient, or use the description or memo field.
12:04:31 <jsled> But there's not an object-modeled field specifically for that.
12:04:32 <aggieryan> Well, now it's on Auto-Split but was basic.
12:04:48 <jsled> Yeah, use auto-split (or use the Split button in the toolbar on a one-off basis)
12:04:51 <deltas4> let me see
12:05:09 <jsled> aggieryan: Now, it should be easier to see how to add more Splits … ?
12:05:35 <aggieryan> I did use the split button, but I tried to make the split under Expenses:Groceries for "Wal-Mart Groceries" for $10 and then put $5 into Expenses:Groceries:Milk and the rest into Expenses:Groceries:Bananas
12:05:43 <andi5> yep, there is a blank split at the end of the transaction you can fill in other splits
12:06:07 <deltas4> where's the memo field
12:06:10 <jsled> aggieryan: Right. Again, it's just a straight sum. So forgoe the $10, and just list the $5 and $5.
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12:06:32 <aggieryan> jsled: I thought the first line had to be the total transaction?
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12:06:38 <andi5> aggieryan: i am not sure i understand, what account are you in?
12:06:53 <aggieryan> jsled: (this is what the help file says, and says it's due to a current bug)
12:06:56 <jsled> aggieryan: Nope. It's just a set of splits that must balance.
12:07:15 <aggieryan> andi5: I was in Expenses:Groceries when I did the split.
12:07:39 <andi5> aggieryan: then do not forget to add an asset split for 10$, because the auto-split will not add one for you
12:07:58 <jsled> It's often easier to make entries from the relevant Asset (or Liability/Credit-Card) account.
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12:08:09 <jsled> Especially when the Expenses span multiple Expense accounts.
12:08:33 <aggieryan> okay, I think I am almost understanding this now.
12:08:43 <aggieryan> so let's say I use my credit card to buy groceries at WalMart
12:08:56 <deltas4> what are the adjustment expenses? (I don't know the English terms)
12:08:58 <aggieryan> I should go to the liabilities:credit card account and do it?
12:10:05 <jsled> aggieryan: yeah. you don't have to, but I think it makes a bit more sense to do so.
12:10:30 <aggieryan> andi5: I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean by the asset split. Again, what I am trying to do is show that I am spending $5 on good A and $5 on good B with one transaction at a merchant.
12:10:30 <jsled> deltas4: I believe the memo field is per-split; you might need to use the Split toolbar button to see them.
12:11:13 <andi5> aggieryan: yes, but your money is coming from somewhere, you need to tell that to the registers (if you were in your credit card register, a split would show up automatically)
12:12:12 <jsled> aggieryan: see http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/txns-registers1.html#txns-registers-multiaccount2
12:12:22 <aggieryan> So I am going to my credit card account and making a split. The first line should be the total charge, right? I am putting $10 in there.
12:13:33 <andi5> aggieryan: when your txn is split, then only insert date and description into the first line, all other split-specific data is inserted into line 2, 3 (split 1 and 2) and maybe others (line 4 as well if you involve two expense accounts)
12:16:42 <jsled> aggieryan: how goes?
12:16:54 <aggieryan> jsled: I think I got it.
12:17:12 <aggieryan> I added a transaction under liabilities and split it into several expenses.
12:17:39 <aggieryan> But now I am assuming I can also do the same from Assets if I use my checking account.
12:17:43 <jsled> Absolutely.
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12:18:35 <aggieryan> ok, now to add a twist using the same example, suppose I want to show that I spent the money at WalMart with an account specifically for Walmart
12:18:41 <aggieryan> so I use my credit card to buy goods at Walmart
12:18:41 <jsled> All transactions are just a set of Splits where the credit/debits sum to zero. Even in View >Basic Ledger, that's still the case … we just limit the splits to two, and don't show the "local" split for the register you're "in".
12:18:56 <deltas4> what could be a good example of an expense:adjustment? (for me to understand this term)
12:19:00 <andi5> aggieryan: actually you can enter a split transaction from an account's register as well as from the general ledger, because you enter all relevant data account anyway... (but beware, if you enter a split txn from an account's register without a split anchored there, the transaction will disappear :-))
12:19:03 <aggieryan> jsled: That makes sense to me, now.
12:19:30 <aggieryan> andi5: I have experienced the disappearing.
12:19:41 <andi5> i mean "enter from any account's register"
12:20:02 <aggieryan> So let's say that I want to show that I spent $50 at WalMart with my credit card.
12:20:12 <aggieryan> And that goes to the WalMart account.
12:20:27 <aggieryan> (again, nobody would actually do this, but in the case of large merchant purchases it is useful)
12:20:41 <aggieryan> Then, within that transaction I also want to show that I bought Milk and Bananas.
12:21:13 <aggieryan> Walmart and the Milk and Bananas would all be expense accounts, and it seems this would not work.
12:21:19 <andi5> actually if you intend to show milk transactions bought anywhere, you probably want to work with reports rather than only registers
12:21:47 <jsled> Right, that doesn't quite work … it's similar to deltas4's request to tag transactions by recipient.
12:22:18 <aggieryan> It's almost as if we need a "Payee" field. I hate to say that, because I know it sounds like another piece of software.
12:22:58 <aggieryan> Could I spend $50 to a WalMart account and then *transfer* amounts into other accounts to show the details?
12:23:49 <aggieryan> Basically, if I am building control panels, I want to track accounts with several merchants but still be able to compare and control costs on items like stainless steel enclosures.
12:27:06 <aggieryan> does this make sense? Basically, I want to go to the WalMart account and see that I spent $50 with my credit card one day and then be able to drill down into the transaction and see that I spent $45 on a video game and then $5 on Milk, for instance.
12:27:51 <deltas4> what's the R field?
12:28:04 <jsled> aggieryan: it makes sense, but it's not really well supported in gnucash.
12:28:32 <jsled> deltas4: it's for the reconciliation status of the splits; http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/txns-reconcile1.html
12:29:39 <jsled> deltas4: I'm not sure what you mean by adjustment expenses. It doesn't have a specific meaning to me.
12:29:51 <jsled> deltas4: are you looking at something that mentions them, or…?
12:29:56 <aggieryan> jsled: What I have been doing is using an account like Expenses:Merchants:Walmart. Then, I do a transaction showing I spent money there and give it a reference code. Next, I transfer amounts with the same reference code to individual expense accounts to show all the details. It's roundabount, but it seems to work.
12:30:05 <aggieryan> Does that sound like valid accounting?
12:30:40 <jsled> I can't speak to valid accounting, I Am Not An Accountant, &c.
12:30:40 <jsled> :)
12:30:51 <jsled> If it works for you, then it does.
12:31:00 <aggieryan> So I push money from the credit card to WalMart, then I transfer the amounts against a code to each individual expense account.
12:31:05 <jsled> If you have a legal reporting requirement, you should consult an Accounting professional.
12:31:25 <aggieryan> jsled: I don't, I'm an individual who is a bit anal about expenses because I spend quite a bit of money.
12:32:08 <jsled> So, yeah, using "staged" Expense accounts seems like it might work.
12:32:21 <jsled> Also, you could stage Asset accounts to similar effect.
12:32:46 <jsled> Also, you could put some sort of code in the description of the transaction, then maybe query those transactions out in a report.
12:32:59 <aggieryan> I tend to do that as well.
12:33:00 <jsled> Though I'm not sure if the existing reports let you predicate transactions that way.
12:33:21 <aggieryan> jsled: I think you can. I think someone in this channel showed me once.
12:33:45 <aggieryan> what I did was do a search and then pulled up a report
12:33:56 <jsled> Oh, right.
12:33:59 <aggieryan> Warlord is the one who gave the solution.
12:34:05 <aggieryan> But now I can't remember the details.
12:34:08 <jsled> Then you can get the transaction report from the search results.
12:35:34 <deltas4> jsled: when I create a common account, the account Expense:Adjustments is available but I don't know what it's for
12:35:50 <jsled> deltas4: Ah.
12:35:51 <deltas4> wrong, Expenses:Adjustment*
12:36:09 <jsled> deltas4: I believe it's there for random adjustments to make the books line up.
12:36:37 <deltas4> ah, okay
12:36:42 <deltas4> and what about Cables?
12:36:55 <jsled> For instance, if you went to match your books with the bank, and there was a difference, you might put the Expense there just so things line up.
12:37:42 <jsled> Cable as in Cable Television.
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14:54:50 <rigid> has anyone been able to run gnucash with hbci 3.0 support? (aqbanking devel)
14:55:09 <rigid> simple "yes" answer would suffice, then i'll try it
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15:25:17 <aindilis> is there a script for checking your current balance using OFX?
15:25:31 <aindilis> so that I can setup something to page me when I go over...
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17:57:55 <foo> warlord: ping
17:58:08 <foo> Or, any dev, really
17:59:56 <warlord> yes? (/me is slow)
18:01:15 <foo> :) No worries. Hm, could you do something: Open gnucash 2.2.7, create an invoice, post it, immediately after clicking post, click OK (don't click anywhere else). Does it say: No Account selected. Please try again. ?
18:02:04 <warlord> Sorry, dont' have time to play with it now to test.
18:02:24 <foo> ok, I'll hang around. When is a better time to catch you?
18:02:25 <warlord> But there are some issues with that on some platforms.
18:02:30 <warlord> Ummm... Monday?
18:02:37 <warlord> business hours?
18:03:43 <foo> ah, ok, sounds good. Oh, ok, so you're aware of the issue. I remember a bug being filed a while back... and I've seen a few releases now with the same problem, just wondering if it was forgotten. Anywho, thanks :)
18:08:54 <warlord> There is/was a report on it.
18:09:01 <warlord> It's partly a gtk thing.
18:10:27 <foo> ah, I see
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18:17:05 <warlord> foo: what OS/Distro do you use?
18:28:20 <foo> warlord: ubuntu 8.10. I noticed the issue back on ubuntu 7.04, though, IIRC
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21:09:36 <warlord> @op
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21:16:39 <benjamin> ¬.¬
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