2008-10-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:02:27 <xai> Has anyone tried to install gnucash on osx from macports lately? I get problem when downloading gwenhywfar 3.4.1. Download is simply gone.
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10:35:05 <warlord> xai: I've heard only of people having issues. I know fink works
10:37:12 <xai> ok thanks.. Trying fink next.
11:08:20 <xai> In fink w/ GC 2.2.x, do I need to enable both Unstable and Unstable Crypto?
11:08:53 <xai> The instructions mention crypto but don't indicate enabling it.
11:10:51 <warlord> I'm afriad I dont know... an I need to head out. I'll be back in :45.
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16:05:51 <condeh> Hi, what is the correct way to enter an expense which i expect to be refunded. i.e. travel expenses which will later be refunded by work?
16:06:24 <unixSnob_> Expenses:Travel:Reimbursed ?
16:06:37 <unixSnob_> That's the MS Money way.. not sure if it's correct
16:06:48 <condeh> ok, so still have it under expenses, but as a credit?
16:07:14 <unixSnob_> hmm.. not sure
16:07:29 <unixSnob_> but I think expense accounts can have income
16:08:02 <condeh> I would like to see how often im "losing out" so to speak, in my mind expenses:work travel should generally be at nil
16:08:38 <unixSnob_> right, makes sense
16:08:58 <unixSnob_> try to enter an income in an expense acct, see what happens
16:11:33 <condeh> i just did, must have made a mistake, one sec!
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16:17:53 <warlord> condeh: I just use Assets:Business Expenses
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16:25:57 <unixSnob> you guys able to enter transactions from the expense side of the transaction first?
16:26:40 <condeh> thats the only thing i dislike bout gnucash - changed one transaction (the buisness expenses one) now whole checking account is out of kilter, and no undo - ah well :)
16:27:11 <unixSnob> If I start in the expense account, I can't enter an exchange rate
16:27:27 <unixSnob> and when i go to the liability account, I can't enter any values
16:28:46 <unixSnob> it's a pretty gross oversight it seems, because when do users know what the exact exchange rate will be in advance?
16:29:04 <unixSnob> it makes more sense to enter the transaction in the currency on the receipt
16:30:59 <warlord> unixSnob: Eh? What do you mean "from the expense side first"? That's backwards and will make your head hurt.
16:31:08 <warlord> Me, I always enter transactions from Asset or Liability accounts.
16:31:24 <warlord> condeh: undo == quit (without saving) and then restart
16:31:26 <unixSnob> warlord: the problem is if you're crossing currencies
16:31:48 <warlord> unixSnob: still, you should enter it all from the asset/liability.
16:31:59 <unixSnob> warlord: you don't know what the exchange rate will be on each item, in advance, so you don't have those figures
16:32:00 <condeh> the autosave got me too quickly
16:32:07 <unixSnob> I know exactly what's on the receipt
16:32:21 <warlord> Ahh, I turned off autosave
16:32:25 <condeh> but id only complain if there was no autosave. found the transaction i deleted now, good old internet statement
16:32:53 <unixSnob> I should be able to enter the expenses first, in euros, then fill in the exchange rate when the credit card statement comes
16:33:21 <warlord> unixSnob: Sure. What I do is "guess"
16:33:43 <warlord> But I still keep it all in USD, because my credit card bill is in USD.
16:33:45 <unixSnob> sure, but then you end up with a 'guess' on the expense side of it
16:33:51 <unixSnob> when you have the actuals
16:34:11 <warlord> E.g., I went to dinner in Germany and spent €25.
16:34:42 <warlord> I put "€25" in the txn DESC. But I put $40.41 in the txn.
16:34:52 <warlord> Then when the CC bill comes i correct the amount.
16:34:58 <warlord> Both CC and Expense are in USD.
16:35:26 <unixSnob> warlord: you're losing the advantage of multiple currency support
16:35:45 <warlord> For me there is no advantage.
16:35:51 <warlord> I never have a Euro in my hand.
16:35:59 <warlord> So why do I care?
16:36:34 <warlord> Why do I care that the CC company spent €25 on my behalf when they ask me to pay them, say, $40.29
16:37:47 <ben_goodger> warlord has a good point. multiple currencies are only an issue for assets and liabilities
16:38:50 <warlord> Right. NOW, if I had a bank account in EUR, or a EUR-denominated CC, *then* I'd definitely want to use multiple currencies.
16:39:02 <ben_goodger> quite
16:39:03 <warlord> But for regular expenses on a CC based on my home currency? No way.
16:39:07 <unixSnob> if 0.5% of your transactions don't cross currencies, then it makes sense to keep a hacked transaction on occasion
16:39:50 <warlord> Even if 90% of my transactions appear to cross currencies, it's all a question of my assets and liabilities and how THEY related to my "home currency".
16:39:56 <unixSnob> i have transactions in both currencies, and assets in both currencies
16:40:33 <warlord> By assets are you just talking about cash you pulled out of an ATM or do you actually have a two bank accounts, one in each currency?
16:40:36 <unixSnob> it's not useful to see euro expenses in USD
16:40:51 <unixSnob> i have two bank accounts
16:40:57 <warlord> (note, I have to take off in 15min)
16:41:04 <unixSnob> on in euros, and a few in USD
16:41:11 <warlord> Depends on your definition of a "euro expense"
16:41:59 <warlord> See my example above. To me the receipt may be in Euro, But I dont care -- I only care about how many USD I need to pay the CC, and how many USD my company is going to reimburse me.
16:42:32 <unixSnob> but then when you file your belgian taxes, all your amounts are off
16:42:54 <unixSnob> since they're entered as comments, you must add them manually
16:43:13 <warlord> I have no belgian taxes.
16:43:29 <warlord> Nor do I have German, British, Canadian, etc. Taxes (for me) are only in the US.
16:43:43 <warlord> But in your case, you probably want two sets of books.
16:43:49 <unixSnob> if I'm looking at expenses in belgium, it's more useful to see them in euros -- except when you are looking at the liability account in USD
16:44:21 <unixSnob> can one 'book' reference another?
16:45:20 <warlord> No.
16:45:35 <warlord> But you can do similar things in one book by having parallel trees in different currencies.
16:45:58 <warlord> It makes no sense to me to use a USD CC to pay for expenses in Belgium where Belgium taxes apply.
16:46:39 <unixSnob> I arrived in belgium with only USD accounts to start
16:47:00 <unixSnob> Also, belgian credit cards do not have protections that american cards do
16:47:43 <warlord> Well, in that case you're screwed and just have to jump through the hoops that gnucash forces on you.
16:48:20 <unixSnob> right.. it's the reason i'm switching to gnucash. ms money can't handle cross currency transactions
16:49:16 <warlord> GnuCash can, but seriously it's just better to enter them from the asset/liability
16:50:11 <unixSnob> That's backwards though - The sales receipt shows actuals. The liability figures should be based on that, not vice versa
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16:51:03 <unixSnob> it takes too long to fiddle with going the other direction.. too much back and forth, and guesswork
16:51:24 <warlord> Use the transfer dialog instead of the register?
16:51:48 <unixSnob> i'll look for that
16:52:19 <warlord> Actions -> Transfer (Ctrl-T)
16:52:35 <xai> I got GC compiled from fink on 10.5.5. but there seems to be some issues with default configuration data. It looks like its missing some font data too.
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17:16:52 <xai> If someone has experience with the fink install of 2.2.7, please let me know how your install went.
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17:26:27 <unixSnob_> warlord-afk: that seems to work okay.. as long as I reverse the direction of the transfer, and then use a negative value
17:26:36 <xai> http://pastebin.ca/1235974
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17:48:42 <eia> hi all! I installed GNU cash here, and was wondering.. at the bank account, I can import the bank transactions, that is great. However, is it possible to add a column for something like donor ID?
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17:54:31 <cortana> eia: not AFAIK, however you can use the memo field to store random info
17:54:44 <cortana> if you do view -> double line then you will get another set of fields to fill in
17:55:44 <eia> hmm
17:56:02 <eia> so.. there is no way to attach a number to an external account?
17:56:30 <cortana> not sure what you mean exactly
17:57:08 <eia> Say, my brother transfers E 10 to my account
17:57:08 <eia> then I add +10 to my bank account
17:57:21 <eia> how can I identify that the from: is my brother?
17:57:36 <eia> preferrably in such a way, that I could later do a query
17:57:43 <eia> for all transactions from my brother
17:58:34 <cortana> ok so you could use the memo field, or the description field
17:58:43 <cortana> but the best way might be to keep track of it via where the money was transferred from
17:58:58 <cortana> so it really depends why he is transferring you E10
17:59:41 <eia> hmm, I'm setting this up for an association, and we recieve (hopefully) many donations
17:59:45 <eia> so... just donations
17:59:52 <cortana> ok
18:00:08 <eia> and it would be good if we could keep track of recurring donations
18:00:11 <cortana> perhaps you could maintain an income account for each donor
18:00:19 <eia> ehm
18:00:22 <cortana> all subaccounts under a single donations account
18:00:25 <eia> for each donor?
18:00:34 <eia> that is like... hundreds to thousands
18:00:37 <cortana> that way you can get reports for either all donations, or split out into each donor
18:00:45 <cortana> yes, i don't know how scalable this would be
18:01:02 <eia> doesn't sound very scalable :P
18:01:21 <cortana> otherwise you could use the memo field, and perhaps a custom report could get the donor info from the memo field
18:01:31 <cortana> or maybe you could use the business features for it (it can keep track of customers)
18:01:39 <cortana> i think this would best be asked on the mailnig list :)
18:01:50 <eia> I did play with that idea of yet :)
18:01:50 <eia> hmm
18:01:57 <eia> could you point me to the mailing list page?
18:02:02 <eia> so I can ask? :)
18:02:13 <cortana> sure 1 sec
18:02:34 * eia just hopes it is possible, I'd love to use OS for this too...
18:02:45 <cortana> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
18:03:34 <eia> thanks
18:04:41 <cortana> no problem :)
18:08:31 <eia> ok, sent
18:08:38 <eia> now I'll just wait and hope :)
18:35:58 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
18:37:09 <warlord> eia: maybe by using the Income:My Brother as the 'from' account for the transfer?
18:37:30 <warlord> xai: Sounds like a GConf issue
18:37:33 <warlord> the binreloc message is normal
18:38:19 <eia> warlord: but that doesn't really scale, right?
18:38:24 <eia> :)
18:38:51 <ben_goodger> eia: my company uses a separate account for each author
18:39:09 <ben_goodger> it scales appallingly badly, but it saves keeping another system of records
18:39:12 <warlord> well, your other option is to set up each donor as a customer.
18:39:32 <warlord> but then you have to make two steps to record a donation, an "invoice" and a payment.
18:39:45 <eia> what I'd love is if I could somehow use the bank account number
18:40:04 <eia> without having to "create" anything explicitely
18:40:33 <eia> ie, if someone donates from 11111, I could just use as from: account the number 11111
18:40:57 <warlord> eia: well, you could use the NUM account, or the Action field. Or the NOtes field?
18:41:02 <warlord> er, Num Field
18:41:23 <eia> hm, I understood the Num field is for the number of the transaction?
18:41:33 <eia> would that give problems if someone donates twice?
18:42:47 <warlord> Well, the Num field is normally used for a transaction number (e.g. a Cheque #). But you can use it for whatever you want.
18:43:24 <warlord> Why would it give problems? It's just a string field (although GnuCash does apply certain numeric properties, but there's no requirement that you input numbers)
18:48:27 <eia> well, if you put in twice the same number maybe?
18:49:16 <eia> hmm, not so much apparently
18:50:41 <warlord> GnuCash doesn't care if you re-use the same number.
18:51:47 <eia> hmmm, ok
18:51:49 <eia> thanks
18:51:52 <eia> I might be able to use that
18:52:39 <eia> now I need to find a way to rewrite my .942 in such a way that it is automatically imported, using the account number for the transaction number :P
18:53:10 <eia> or is it 940
18:53:34 <eia> 940 it is :P
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21:18:09 <xai> warlord: it works fine, i forgot to initalize the environment in the terminal..
21:20:09 <warlord> that would do it.
21:20:11 <warlord> glad to hear.
21:21:36 <xai> how can the fonts be changed in GC on osx? gtk's config?
21:22:04 <warlord> yeah
21:22:46 <xai> perhaps there is a gtk editor in fink, i'll look.
21:23:02 <warlord> look for control-center?
21:23:09 <warlord> or.. gnome-control-center
21:23:52 <xai> i see control-center...
21:25:56 <warlord> that could be it
21:26:02 <xai> I know its lame to install control-center to fix a few fonts, I should be able to mod the config file
21:27:33 <warlord> You should.
21:27:38 <warlord> Anyways, I gotta run. Later all.
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21:27:59 <xai> have a nice weekend.. Thanks for all the help.